Keep The Commandments

[Laodicea]

True. But I do agree with them, God did give us a day of rest. for our benefit, even before the law was given.

Now I do not think God is going to go postal on us if we do it on Sunday and not Saturday. But not taking a day of rest has and will cause consequences in our lives God did not intend us to receive if we took this day of rest.

But I do not agree salvation is dependent on this. Or any sin. Because Christ paid the price for those sins, If he did not. we are all doomed for whatever sin Christ forgot, or did not die for.

God only blessed one day of the 7, He did not remove this blessing, it remains as it states in Hebrews 4:9

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The text you are referring to is talking about eating with unwashed hands. It is not saying we can eat anything we want.

That's an outright falsehood. The text says what it says:

​And summoning the crowd again, he said to them, “Listen to me, all [of you], and understand: There is nothing outside of a person that is able to defile him [by] going into him. But the things that go out of a person are the things that defile a person.” Mark 7:14-16
​

Nothing means no food is able to defile a person (unless their conscience is already defiled).

Jesus' reference in Matthew 15:20 to washing of hands was to merely apply the truth of what he was saying to what the pharisees had just been offended with, the disciples not washing their hands.

Paul reinforces Jesus' teaching:

Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15
​

All things means all foods.

 

[zone]

Hmmm, they surely do, Christ said to do this and the first response from most is "Don't tell me what to do!"

could you please document Jesus commanding Christians to observe the Sinai (Israelites Mosaic Covenant) 7th day Sabbath which was a reminder of His delivering THEM (Israel) out of Egypt.

His apostles had complete infallible authority to record New Covenant commandments and instructions for those in Covenant with The Lord (saved people) - not one of them commanded 7th day sabbath.

why the oversight.

particularly when the Holy Spirit guided the Jerusalem Council to establish what was essential for gentiles - He did not include 7th day sabbath.

why is this.

 

[just-me]

What exactly are GOD's commandments? There has to be a distinction made because some things GOD has said at one time contradict things he has said at another time.

For example, commandments given through Moses forbade eating certain things. However, Jesus said that nothing going into the mouth can defile a person. So in effect, Jesus declared Moses' commandment null and void.

I think we can all agree that everything Jesus said takes precedence over everything Moses said. And from the above example, it's obvious that GOD does set aside commandments that are no longer profitable.

Good example, but if we are to see the truth about all scripture we must see the Spiritual meaning of what is written. First one must consider that Jesus and God are one, and there is no contradiction between the two.

Second, eating certain things Spiritually relates to what we take in from the world’s values contrary to Biblical values. One must understand then the attributes of what is a clean animal and a corrupted one. Without discerning that we are disobeying this scripture.
1 Corinthians 2:12-14 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Third, Knowing that Christ and God are one, and a house divided against itself cannot stand, we need to understand that Jesus was before all things, and by Him all things consist, including the law He gave to Moses.

Colossians 1:12-18 (KJV)
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[SUP]16 [/SUP]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
John 17:5 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[zone]

I was talking to a lady the other day and she said that she would have problems discussing religion with me because I held the Mosaic law in high regard. The church she attends has a way around the law as she continued to talk with me. Evidently their belief is that there are only 9 commandments they need to follow now because Christ Jesus is Lord of all. The commandment they dropped is the 1st one as I understand it.

could you be precise about what you mean by holding Mosaic Law in high regard.
t.y.

 

[Laodicea]

That's an outright falsehood. The text says what it says:

​And summoning the crowd again, he said to them, “Listen to me, all [of you], and understand: There is nothing outside of a person that is able to defile him [by] going into him. But the things that go out of a person are the things that defile a person.” Mark 7:14-16
​

Nothing means no food is able to defile a person (unless their conscience is already defiled).

Jesus' reference in Matthew 15:20 to washing of hands was to merely apply the truth of what he was saying to what the pharisees had just been offended with, the disciples not washing their hands.

Paul reinforces Jesus' teaching:

Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. Titus 1:15
​

All things means all foods.

Do you know what it means to read in context? Read the whole story not part of it.

Matthew 15:1-2 KJV
(1) Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
(2) Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Matthew 15:16-20 KJV
(16) And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
(17) Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
(18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
(19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
(20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

 

[just-me]

could you be precise about what you mean by holding Mosaic Law in high regard.
t.y.

Self-explanatory I thought. I guess I was mistaken that everybody would know what holding something in “high regard meant. What are you thinking?

 

[JaumeJ]

Perhaps those who see no value in the wisdom, prohesy and general teaching from the law should get together and publish their own lawless bible.

Of course they may have copyright problems with the lawless one.

Then they could also censor what they do not like in the New Testament. It would make for a quick read for those with little time on thier hands to study Yahweh's Word to be found approved. Oh, right that last part is almost a commandment, it should also be struck for these very free and licentious people.

Come on, you who believe Yeshua, read all of His Word, and teach all of His Word. The Word is God; the Word is Jesus, amen. (Do not construe this as being in favor of spurning the grace of Yeshua, though many being advised to study all of the Word will do exactly that.)

 

[zone]

This word really argues against it meaning a weekly sabbath because 1) it is derived from G4521, the normal word used for a weekly sabbath, and 2) it is only used once in the entire bible (Hebrews 4:9), which indicates it has a special meaning.

Hebrews 4
1Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened.a 3For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,

“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

although his works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4For he has somewhere spoken of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all his works.” 5And again in this passage he said,

“They shall not enter my rest.”

6Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, 7 again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

.......

For we who have believed enter that rest, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest,’”

should this have said something like:

For we who have believed keep the 7th day sabbath, as he has said,
“As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not keep my 7th day sabbath,’”

......

Since therefore it remains for some to enter it, and those who formerly received the good news failed to enter because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted,

should this have said something like:

Since therefore it remains for some to keep the 7th day rest (sabbath), and those who formerly received the good news failed to keep the day of rest (the 7th day) because of disobedience, again he appoints a certain day, concerning His rest, “Today,” saying through David so long afterward, in the words already quoted, Today is the 7th day sabbath you must enter.

......


For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

Let us therefore strive to enter that rest

can we in good conscience insist this means Saturday.
it is talking about Gods rest.

and is immediately followed by:

Hebrews 4
Jesus the Great High Priest
14 Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Matthew 11
27 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knows the Son, but the Father; neither knows any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. 28 Come to me, all you that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke on you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest to your souls.

Hebrews 4
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us fear lest any of you should seem to have failed to reach it. 2For good news came to us just as to them, but the message they heard did not benefit them, because they were not united by faith with those who listened....

For we who have believed enter that rest

 

[zone]

Hebrews 4

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on. 9 So then, there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God, 10 for whoever has entered God’s rest has also rested from his works as God did from his.

11Let us therefore strive to enter that rest, so that no one may fall by the same sort of disobedience. 12For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and discerning the thoughts and intentions of the heart. 13And no creature is hidden from his sight, but all are naked and exposed to the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

apoleipó: to leave, leave behind
Original Word: ἀπολείπω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: apoleipó
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-ipe'-o)
Short Definition: I leave, leave behind, desert, am reserved

Passive ἀπολείπεται it remains, is reserved: Hebrews 4:9; Hebrews 10:26; followed by the accusative and an infinitive, Hebrews 4:6.

......

there is A REST reserved or left available for any day (TODAY) in which the believer may ENTER INTO GOD`S REST...TODAY is the day to enter into His REST.

TODAY is the day of salvation and ceasing from our WORKS.

 

[zone]

Second, eating certain things Spiritually relates to what we take in from the world’s values contrary to Biblical values. One must understand then the attributes of what is a clean animal and a corrupted one. Without discerning that we are disobeying this scripture.

hi just-me.

food:

omnivores and carnivores and scavengers are not good food.
God made a clear list of the creatures he created for food.
He did adjust His food laws...didnt He.
yes...He did.

the health consequences of eating unclean (rank) inedible foods which are not good for the human body are easily found in scripture. we learn about split hooves and chewing cud...we know this means that animals meat is CLEAN and not filled with toxins as a ravens flesh would be toxic.

if we were starving to death, any of us would do what we could to make even raven meat edible.

Second, eating certain things Spiritually relates to what we take in from the world’s values contrary to Biblical values. One must understand then the attributes of what is a clean animal and a corrupted one. Without discerning that we are disobeying this scripture.

the clean animal vs unclean animal compared to human beings is only carried over concerning the saved and unsaved.

the ONLY difference between those persons is:

Acts 10:15
The voice spoke to him a second time, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean."

we all know this is referring to the jews attitude to the gentiles.
God made it plain to Peter through the vision of the unclean animals (food) that He had made clean (God justifies the ungodly) the gentiles.

if you have scriptures using the illustration of unclean food as the worlds values, something we must discern using the illustration of the dietary Laws, please post them.

not saying it`s not there, but i havent seen it.
i think you may be over-spiritualizing...but im prolly wrong.

my point is, its GOD who makes men clean.
t.y.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Do you know what it means to read in context? Read the whole story not part of it.

Matthew 15:1-2 KJV
(1) Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,
(2) Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.

Matthew 15:16-20 KJV
(16) And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?
(17) Do not ye yet understand, that whatsoever entereth in at the mouth goeth into the belly, and is cast out into the draught?
(18) But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
(19) For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
(20) These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man.

Exactly. Read it in context. The truth Jesus was conveying is that nothing entering a man's mouth defiles him. This is echoed in Mark 7:14 and Titus 1:15. In Matthew Jesus put that truth within the context of the current moment in which the pharisees had just condemned the disciples for eating with unwashed hands. Jesus was saying it doesn't matter if you wash your hands or not because there's nothing you can put in your body that defiles it.

 

[JaumeJ]

Although my personal favorite Bible to read is the KJV, they all have the same message when the Holy Spirit is teaching. When studying the Word, it is most advisable to study all, and those who have received Jesus Christ must believe what they are reading and understanding. Not all who prop themselves up as professors interpreting the Word are faithful and true. This is a very sad truth since the time of Paul and before. Here below is a description of what many claiming to believe are doing today. I have selected this passage utilizing the CEV, Contemporary English Version, for those who do not like to read in the KJV as do we who hardly ever saw another version. They really do say the same thing.

2Ti 4:1
When Christ Jesus comes as king, he will be the judge of everyone, whether they are living or dead. So with God and Christ as witnesses, I command you
2Ti 4:2
to preach God's message. Do it willingly, even if it isn't the popular thing to do. You must correct people and point out their sins. But also cheer them up, and when you instruct them, always be patient.
2Ti 4:3
The time is coming when people won't listen to good teaching. Instead, they will look for teachers who will please them by telling them only what they are itching to hear.
2Ti 4:4
They will turn from the truth and eagerly listen to senseless stories.
2Ti 4:5
But you must stay calm and be willing to suffer. You must work hard to tell the good news and to do your job well.

If you should hear someone professing to understand the Word, and they are teaching all is for nothing and nothing is required of any who come to the Lord, Yeshua, know you are getting a good powdering with pixie dust. If you love Yeshua, Jesus, and if you follow Him there will be tribulations along the way, but, as He encourages us all, we have no reason to fear the tribulation of the world for He has over come the world.

 

[zone]

Self-explanatory I thought. I guess I was mistaken that everybody would know what holding something in “high regard meant. What are you thinking?

i guess i just meant there is only a fringe group in the visible church which considers we are living in a Dispensation where LAW is completely absent.

some Grace something or other community.

hyper-dispensationalists (and real antinomians...not that they go around sinning...but they are literally against the Law in that they say Law in no way plays any part in this so-called-current Gentile, or Church Age).

they believe OT saints were saved somehow under and by the Mosaic Law. most failed to keep the Law and so few were saved (some whack idea like that)

this dispensation (generally inaugerated mid Acts, or whatever) is purely grace with Law literally just totally absent.

they believe that when the Church is removed via the pretrib rapture, the people remaining on earth (jews) will revert back to the Old Covenant.

they believe in a literal future 1,000 year Kingdom where anyone who gets saved does so through a return to Mosaic Law mixed with some other thing (which can`t be grace through faith) since Christ will be here in a temple smashing people with an iron rod.



who knew

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Perhaps those who see no value in the wisdom, prohesy and general teaching from the law should get together and publish their own lawless bible.

Red herring... That's a false assumption made by you and others, for some reason. I value what the OT teaches.

 

[Laodicea]

Exactly. Read it in context. The truth Jesus was conveying is that nothing entering a man's mouth defiles him. This is echoed in Mark 7:14 and Titus 1:15. In Matthew Jesus put that truth within the context of the current moment in which the pharisees had just condemned the disciples for eating with unwashed hands. Jesus was saying it doesn't matter if you wash your hands or not because there's nothing you can put in your body that defiles it.

Jesus is not saying we can eat anything we want, if you believe that then that would be silly. Everything Jesus taught was in accordance with the Torah. Jesus came to fulfill not destroy the Torah.

 

[zone]

Romans 8:4-5 KJV
(4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(5) For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

According to this if we belong to Christ we will walk after the things of the Spirit, so what are the things of the Spirit? We are to walk not stay still.

walk...come on Lao.
you know that simply means living according to.

does sabbatarianism mean you are walking not standing still.
does it mean you are not minding the things of the flesh.

thats silly.

if anything, the false-gospel of sabbatarianism (saturday is the mark or sign of a true believer) is living according to the flesh.
jews observe saturday sabbath - if the 7th day is the sign of salvation....well...anyways
i guess ill start a thread on the First Day of the Week.

 

[zone]

Jesus is not saying we can eat anything we want, if you believe that then that would be silly. Everything Jesus taught was in accordance with the Torah. Jesus came to fulfill not destroy the Torah.

really.

Hebrews 8:13
By calling this covenant "new," he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear.

no...He did not teach everything in accordance with Torah.

He taught NEW things...and He MADE the Old Covenant obsolete, outdated, and it disappeared.

 

[zone]

Jesus is not saying we can eat anything we want, if you believe that then that would be silly. Everything Jesus taught was in accordance with the Torah. Jesus came to fulfill not destroy the Torah.

could you document all of Jesus teachings on what we may eat.

New Covenant only please.

 

[zone]

Red herring... That's a false assumption made by you and others, for some reason. I value what the OT teaches.

its not an assumption.
its an accusation of lawlessness and antinomianism.
made regularly by those who think they obey the Law unto righteousness before God.

Galatians 2:21
I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

we have the Hebrew Roots Movement to thank for this pushing Christians to the brink of being severed from Grace.
more on that later...the other thread.