Is the Hebrew Roots Movement a cult?

[zone]

So, if you and I both agree that I shouldn't be doing this for salvation or standing before God, why do you seem so bothered that I don't appear to be doing it exactly right according to your interpretation of how it should be done?

it's not my interpretaton of how it should be done, it's the Lord's.
you saying you're keeping Torah.

but in reality you've chosen a lifestyle that incorporates some elements of Mosaic Law.
i've repeatedly said, and i hope i don't need to again - God bless you in your choices.
is this clear, Matt?

i'm not bothered at all by your choices.
what i am bothered by is that you seem to be (i may be wrong) saying you are keeping the Law as it was commanded.
you're not saying that are you?

you say you're not doing it for your salvation - i hope not, and i believe you believe that.
what if someone in your group doesn't follow through with some particular aspect?

is there discipline? disappointment? trouble of any kind?
are they pressured to do these things believing God will be displeased if they do not?

also - what portion of your gatherings and teachings are actually about and preach Christ as the fulfillment of these things?
it sounds very busy in terms of Mosaic commandments. i just wonder if Jesus is greater than Moses.

really, the yeast is a little much, isn't it?
it's sin we need to be concerned with, not yeast for making bread.

but i appreciate the Q&A.

 

[zone]

We've never referred to our building as a "Shul" and I doubt very few people in our church would even know what that word means. We don't do a Torah scroll procession, but the scroll that we do have is only the Torah I believe. We only bring it out once or twice a year but don't study from it or examine it. However, we do spend a great deal of our messages and studies each week in the New Testament.

what percentage would you say is New Testament teaching?
which Bible does your congregation use?

 

[zone]

Matt - this is not directed at you or your posts directly, it's a general comment on the greater Hebrew Roots Movement.

lol. Are we supposed to be mind readers?

The topic was you following Gods commands. so how else would one interpret your tithing?

Why call it a tithe? why not call it an offering??

right EG -

this is where the fancy footwork comes in.

new believers, or those not firmly rooted in the simplicity in Christ can be and are by the thousands bamboozled by this.

which is exactly why i object to it. exit ministries are filled with people who said they ended up in misery and bondage.

there's very little New Covenant in any of this, except the declaration - i'm not doing this for salvation.

 

[zone]

So if I give a minimum of 10% to my church, and am constantly serving and giving to others as the need arises, am I tithing according to the law?

no...you're not.
you're mixing Mosaic law and New Covenant giving.

 

[RickShafer]

Well, at least it's nice to see Zone and E.G. reuniting again.
Albeit to pile on, but fellowship is both important and sweet nonetheless.

 

[zone]

Are you implying that I don't need to tithe at all to my church?

Is there something inheritantly wrong with tithing in the manner I've described? Am I causing damage to the Kingdom of Go or my relationship with Him if I do?

my concern would be, and i don't know you well enough, is are you causing damage to the kingdom if others are not doing it as you prescribe, and come to believe they are displeasing God (this inevitably leads to trying to work harder - under the Law)?


2 Corinthians 9:6-7
But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully.
So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

 

[zone]

Well, at least it's nice to see Zone and E.G. reuniting again.
Albeit to pile on, but fellowship is both important and sweet nonetheless.

Albeit to pile on.....that's uncalled for.

EG and i have worked things out privately.
thanks for your concern

 

[zone]

"....But then I found that even the TO/HR proponents were evolving in their understanding of what it meant to be a biblical Christian. They began to see non-Messianic rabbis as “fathers” of the faith whose authority Christians were obligated to come under. They believed that aside from its exclusion of Jesus Christ as savior, that rabbinic Judaism, complete with praying 3 times a day facing Jerusalem, learning and obeying the Talmud, and even delving into mystical practices (Kabbalah) should be an integral part of the Christian’s faith. I actually was able to be deceived by their teachings on prayer. I remember owning a DVD series produced by First Fruits of Zion called Praying in the Spirit, that took the position that praying pre-written prayers from a prayer book 3 times a day facing Jerusalem was the way one prayed “in the spirit” and “without ceasing”. It bothers me now to think about how I used to take mini breaks at work to pray, and actually brought a tiny compass along with me to ensure that I was indeed facing Jerusalem when I did it.

While I was able to be deceived into thinking that praying set prayers according to Jewish tradition was a biblical commandment, I could never buy into the idea that unbelieving Jewish rabbis had a place of spiritual authority over me or other Christians. Wandering into the territory of mystical Judaism and obeying the teachings of the Talmud stood out as being clearly blasphemous to me. What was worse was to hear messages and read articles about how many Christians were beginning to abandon Jesus altogether for Orthodox Judaism, and how we needed to work to prevent this trend from spreading further into the TO Christian community. Somehow people who began studying the Torah and Hebrew idioms and culture out of a sincere love for Jesus, wound up growing farther and farther away from him. One day they were pursuing the “Jewishness of Jesus”, and the next they decided that Jewishness in and of itself was their savior, and that Jesus was merely a deceiver. Unexpected, but the reality none the less...."

Testimony: Coming Out of Hebrew Roots Movement

 

[zone]

"Below is the testimony of a woman who was deeply involved:

"I wanted to share with you why I feel that the Hebrew Roots Movement & Sacred Name Movement is just as dangerous as the The Latter Rain Doctrine. Coming out of both I feel confident in saying so. I grew up in the Assembly of God church, one that did not teach Latter Rain/Dominion poison. After my husband and I were married (he grew up Baptist) we began searching for something deeper ( I think that is how you get sucked into Latter Rain etc., you feel like there just has to be something more, sadly the Word of God is not enough). We began attending a non-denominational church which would turn out to be one of many disastrous church experiences....."

Hebrew Roots & Yeshua Only Movements | Andrew Strom

 

[RickShafer]

Keep posting......
Latter Day Rain is demonic. (You know because someone said).
Shades of the Spanish Inquisition.
"She was seen doing incantations for the devil!"
- "Confess!"
- - "Confess!"
(Bring out the iron maiden).........(or the Holy hand grenade)
Such utter dark aged tribunal Catholicism is funny coming from a Lutheran.

 

[zone]

Digging Up Hebrew Roots: Is This the Faith Once Delivered?

Ronald L Dart and Pamela S Dewey

http://www.youall.com/hebrewrootsbook.pdf < click

 

[zone]

Keep posting......
Latter Day Rain is demonic. (You know because someone said).
Shades of the Spanish Inquisition.
"She was seen doing incantations for the devil!"
- "Confess!"
- - "Confess!"
(Bring out the iron maiden).........(or the Holy hand grenade)
Such utter dark aged tribunal Catholicism is funny coming from a Lutheran.

uh....i happen to think Latter Rain theology is not of God.
and?

that's not news.
if you think it is, that's up to you.

i'm not into S&M.
thanks anyhow.

edit - maybe i'll do a thread on Latter Rain.
tomorrow.

 

[RickShafer]

uh....i happen to think Latter Rain theology is not of God.
and?

that's not news.
if you think it is, that's up to you.

i'm not into S&M.
thanks anyhow.

edit - maybe i'll do a thread on Latter Rain.
tomorrow.

So do you actually know anyone who was saved in that movement?
Or are all of your predilections hearsay?

 

[KohenMatt]

i'm not bothered at all by your choices.
what i am bothered by is that you seem to be (i may be wrong) saying you are keeping the Law as it was commanded.
you're not saying that are you?

I'm saying I try my best to keep the Torah in Spirit and in Truth. Those are the true worshippers of Jesus.

you say you're not doing it for your salvation - i hope not, and i believe you believe that.
what if someone in your group doesn't follow through with some particular aspect?

We could care less, as long as they are trying to mature in their relationship with God. As long as it doesn't cause someone else to stumble in their walk with God.

is there discipline? disappointment? trouble of any kind?
are they pressured to do these things believing God will be displeased if they do not?

We still have people who bring pepperoni pizza to our community lunch. No one has said a word to those people yet. lol

also - what portion of your gatherings and teachings are actually about and preach Christ as the fulfillment of these things?
it sounds very busy in terms of Mosaic commandments. i just wonder if Jesus is greater than Moses.

Every single one of them. Our Church's tagline is "Revealing Messiah through Torah"

really, the yeast is a little much, isn't it?
it's sin we need to be concerned with, not yeast for making bread.

but i appreciate the Q&A.

That's a question for God, not me. He's the one who wrote it.

Have a great night!
Matt

 

[KohenMatt]

what percentage would you say is New Testament teaching?
which Bible does your congregation use?

I'd say 50/50, depending on the week. Sometimes more, sometimes less, depending on the topic. But there is always a balance to prove the consistency and common thread of all of Scripture.

I personally use the NASB. Out head pastor goes between KJV and NIV depending on which version has the most notes of his on the topic. We try to include alot of Hebrew languange in the studies, so we'll use bits and pieces from the Complete Jewish Bible, the Chumash, the Scriptures, etc.

 

[zone]

So do you actually know anyone who was saved in that movement?
Or are all of your predilections hearsay?

i have first-hand experience, and plenty of research.
scripture proves it to be false.
this isn't new nor isolated. it's connected to the other movements.


we can discuss it tomorrow.
hopefully we can do it without it getting poisonal.

cough

 

[zone]

I'm saying I try my best to keep the Torah in Spirit and in Truth. Those are the true worshippers of Jesus.

okay

John 5:39
You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me

John 4
19The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. 20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” 21Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 24God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth.” 25The woman said to him, “I know that Messiah is coming (he who is called Christ). When he comes, he will tell us all things.” 26Jesus said to her, “I who speak to you am he.”

We could care less, as long as they are trying to mature in their relationship with God. As long as it doesn't cause someone else to stumble in their walk with God.

okay.
i guess i'm wondering how HR adherents are trying to mature in their relationship with God.

We still have people who bring pepperoni pizza to our community lunch. No one has said a word to those people yet. lol

oh....but will they eventually say something?
will they be told pepperoni pizza is not kosher (and therefore they are making God angry in some way?)

Every single one of them. Our Church's tagline is "Revealing Messiah through Torah"

i see.
so your focus is on revealing Jesus through the types and shadows of the Old Testament?
it is interesting to see the and understand the shadows after coming to know the Substance, Jesus.

That's a question for God, not me. He's the one who wrote it.

Have a great night!
Matt

so you don't know why you do all that with yeast?

k. night

 

[RickShafer]

i have first-hand experience, and plenty of research.
scripture proves it to be false.
this isn't new nor isolated. it's connected to the other movements.


we can discuss it tomorrow.
hopefully we can do it without it getting poisonal.

cough

Really? How close are you to those who you know who were saved in the Latter Day Rain Movement?
- Friend, cousin, aunt, uncle, brother, sister, mother, dad?
- - The amount of poison is up to you.

 

[zone]

Really? How close are you to those who you know who were saved in the Latter Day Rain Movement?
- Friend, cousin, aunt, uncle, brother, sister, mother, dad?
- - The amount of poison is up to you.

oh please.
attitude already?

i said not personal.
it's not up to me to say who is saved and not saved.
i plan to examine the doctrine and fruit.
you can provide testimonies or whatever you want.

my concern is doctrine.
goodnight again

fer shur.

 

[RickShafer]

oh please.
attitude already?

i said not personal.
it's not up to me to say who is saved and not saved.
i plan to examine the doctrine and fruit.
you can provide testimonies or whatever you want.

my concern is doctrine.(and fruit)
goodnight again

fer shur.

Auf Wiedersehen Meine Liebchen - Actung der Jude!!!