This is fun on our KJV only basis

[ChosenbyHim]

I have already told you. This is down to how Christinaity is spread, through word of mouth and people just copying texts to pass around. When you learn that its the relationship and message that is important, not being bound to religious constraints.

Well Agricola, if we do not have a perfect Bible, then we are in big trouble then.

But of course, we do have a perfect Bible. It is the Authorized Version.

Today we have and ocean of texts and manusciprts which made up the Gospels etc in all different langauges dating back just 300 years after Christ, all saying the same thing, they are all worded different, but they all say the same thing. Going back 1000 years and even 1500 years there would have been even more texts and more importantly, from an earlier period than we have now, Go back even further and people could have spoken to People like John himself to check things out. Again compare this to other texts we have on history, and you see its unrepresented in what we have regarding gospel texts.

Okay, but here is the question though Agricola, if there is no perfect Bible, then how can we ever be sure of what God said?

How do the Muslims know thier Quaran is correct? they dont, they have to trust it is, further everything has to be exactly copied, which is a religious bondage. Christians do not have that problem, never have done. We know what we have is correct, the true message, salvation does not rely on if you read a Bible which has Passover instead of Easter written in it.

Agricola, I did not say that salvation relied upon which Bible a person reads.

But here is the issue, if we do not have the perfect word of God, then how do we know exactly what God said? Because there are conflicting accounts even between the different manuscripts and Greek texts.

Lets assume your cult got its way and every Bible in the world along with all the old documents, apart from King James 1611 , were destroyed, after all they are imperfect and writings of Satan, leaving the only source as King James 1611. Now, in the future, people will be in bondage to the Bible, just as the Muslims are with the quaran, there has to be a belief that it is really the true word of God, How many people will question in 400 years time that this archaic language is correct and can we really trust it, as all other texts are destroyed, with no comparisons to make that it is genuine text.

Well if all the texts and manuscripts were destroyed and all we had was the King James Bible, then that would be great because now everyone would only have One Bible to read from. And people would believe the Bible again and there would not be so much confusion and uncertainty as to what God said as there is today with all of the modern contradicting bible versions that all say something slightly different from one another.

Fortunately most people are intelligent enough to see past the rantings and flawed arguments of the King James Only Cult.

There is no such thing as a perfect Bible never has been never will be. What there is however are Bibles and texts which all give the same message, that is the important thing. King James is not perfect and has its own flaws.

Okay so you admit Agricola that you do not have a perfect Final Authority on this earth. That is what you just admitted right?

Now if we do not have a perfect Bible, then how do we know that John 3:16 is not in error?

or John 3:36?

Oh also Agricola, let me ask you this. Were the Original Autographs perfect? Was the original Hebrew and Greek texts of the Holy Bible perfect and inerrant?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I have already told you. This is down to how Christinaity is spread, through word of mouth and people just copying texts to pass around. When you learn that its the relationship and message that is important, not being bound to religious constraints.

Today we have and ocean of texts and manusciprts which made up the Gospels etc in all different langauges dating back just 300 years after Christ, all saying the same thing, they are all worded different, but they all say the same thing. Going back 1000 years and even 1500 years there would have been even more texts and more importantly, from an earlier period than we have now, Go back even further and people could have spoken to People like John himself to check things out. Again compare this to other texts we have on history, and you see its unrepresented in what we have regarding gospel texts.


How do the Muslims know thier Quaran is correct? they dont, they have to trust it is, further everything has to be exactly copied, which is a religious bondage. Christians do not have that problem, never have done. We know what we have is correct, the true message, salvation does not rely on if you read a Bible which has Passover instead of Easter written in it.

Lets assume your cult got its way and every Bible in the world along with all the old documents, apart from King James 1611 , were destroyed, after all they are imperfect and writings of Satan, leaving the only source as King James 1611. Now, in the future, people will be in bondage to the Bible, just as the Muslims are with the quaran, there has to be a belief that it is really the true word of God, How many people will question in 400 years time that this archaic language is correct and can we really trust it, as all other texts are destroyed, with no comparisons to make that it is genuine text.

Fortunately most people are intelligent enough to see past the rantings and flawed arguments of the King James Only Cult.

There is no such thing as a perfect Bible never has been never will be. What there is however are Bibles and texts which all give the same message, that is the important thing. King James is not perfect and has its own flaws.

Fortunately for me and the other Bible believers out there, we know that we have a perfect Bible on this planet. It is our Final Authority. And we submit to it. And we allow it to correct us. We do not correct it.

Bible agnostics and Bible correctors out there like James White, Doug Kutilek, and Daniel Wallace have set up their warped minds as their own final authority. Which is why they don't believe that any Bible in any language is the perfect word of God.

 

[my_adonai_]

i have KJV and AMP bible.
gal 5:15 if ye bite and devour one another, take care that ye be not consumed one of another

 

[Shiloah]

Fortunately for me and the other Bible believers out there, we know that we have a perfect Bible on this planet. It is our Final Authority. And we submit to it. And we allow it to correct us. We do not correct it.

Bible agnostics and Bible correctors out there like James White, Doug Kutilek, and Daniel Wallace have set up their warped minds as their own final authority. Which is why they don't believe that any Bible in any language is the perfect word of God.

I myself submit to God.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

I myself submit to God.

Well that is good Shiloah, but do you submit to His word?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

Well if all the texts and manuscripts were destroyed and all we had was the King James Bible, then that would be great because now everyone would only have One Bible to read from. And people would believe the Bible again and there would not be so much confusion and uncertainty as to what God said as there is today with all of the modern contradicting bible versions that all say something slightly different from one another.

the notion that it would be 'great' if the hebrew and greek manuscripts of the bible were destroyed should be extremely disturbing to anyone who actually honors the word of God...and it is still more evidence of the fact that your 'king james only' views are cultish and hateful towards the word of God...

 

[ChosenbyHim]

the notion that it would be 'great' if the hebrew and greek manuscripts of the bible were destroyed should be extremely disturbing to anyone who actually honors the word of God...and it is still more evidence of the fact that your 'king james only' views are cultish and hateful towards the word of God...

No Rachel, we Bible believers hold the word of God up to the highest regard. At least we try to. People that truly honour the word of God, would not try to correct it Rachel.

And people that truly honour the word of God would believe that it is perfect and pure.

Let me ask you Rachel, have you ever seen a street preacher out on the road preaching to sinners about Hell and their need for salvation?

And if you have seen a street preacher, let me ask you, what was he preaching from? Was it the Hebrew manuscripts? Was it a set of Greek Manuscripts? Or was he preaching from a Book?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

the notion that it would be 'great' if the hebrew and greek manuscripts of the bible were destroyed should be extremely disturbing to anyone who actually honors the word of God...and it is still more evidence of the fact that your 'king james only' views are cultish and hateful towards the word of God...

One other thing though Rachel, do you want to know who it is out there that hates the word of God? It is the roman catholic church. And by the way, that is where your NIV comes from. The NIV was partly translated at a university in Salamanca Spain. Under the supervision of the Vatican. And that is a documented fact.

Also let me get this straight Rachel, where can God's word be found today? In a mass of over 5,000 manuscripts?

Or can God's word be found in a Book?

 

[Shiloah]

Yes its easy to attack someone in the comfort of your own club without anyone to challenge, but in that debate video the King James Only Cult was shown up for what it was, a pathetic cult. SOrry Chosenbyhim, but your cult sucks and has been continually exposed as a cult. I have exposed your flaws and lies numerous times, yet you ignore most of it, and when you do half reply, its with a totally different topic and usually another cut and paste job, behaviour of which is another indicator of a cult.

It's indicative of a cult that its cult members literally worship the idol of their obsession, which in this case, is the King James Bible. Anybody can look through these other translations and see that they all say the same thing, just in slightly different ways. This KJV cult represents fanaticism at it's best. Quite honestly, if I know someone belongs to this cult, I tend to disregard most everything he or she says on other topics, based on the fact that if they're this weird about a translation, I can't imagine they'd be that sensible about anything else.

 

[ed2]

One other thing though Rachel, do you want to know who it is out there that hates the word of God? It is the roman catholic church. And by the way, that is where your NIV comes from. The NIV was partly translated at a university in Salamanca Spain. Under the supervision of the Vatican. And that is a documented fact.

Also let me get this straight Rachel, where can God's word be found today? In a mass of over 5,000 manuscripts?

Or can God's word be found in a Book?

Chosen, I am not trying to get into this debate by no means, as I have not really looked into it. I will say, I do like the KJ as well as the NASB. I can understand the KJ and really don't see a difference between it and the NASB. The NIV, eh, not to fond of it, but that's just me. Anyway, I have a serious (to me) question. A couple of years ago I was having a conversation with a fellow about the KJ Bible. He asked me which version I had. I told him I didn't have a clue. He goes to his car and comes back with this huge (thick) Bible. He told me it was an actual 1611 KJ Bible and that he paid a lot of money for it. He didn't say how much. I started thumbing through it and it was nothing like my KJ. He showed me a section after the Old Testament and said I bet your KJ don't have that. I didn't have my KJ with me but told him that I knew for sure it didn't have that section. He just giggled and never explained it to me. I went home and looked at my KJ and it also said 1611 authorized version, but it was nothing like his. My question is this; what in the world did he have? Was it really a KJ? I never really thought nothing else about it until I started reading this thread. I have heard a few preachers condemn versions that were not KJ. After reading through here, it seems that you have done some research on this. If you don't mind, could you give me your thoughts on my question. I will go and do some research on my own also. Thanks!

Eddie

 

[Angela53510]

Only minor differences between the earliest manuscripts in Greek. And no points which touch on doctrine. Hebrew is a bit more complex, because Jesus and the apostles quoted from both the Hebrew and the Greek (LXX) manuscripts, meaning neither is valued over the other.

As for KJV, it has served the English speaking world well. Time to move on to current English. The Byzantine texts were the majority, only because they spoke Greek and continue to reproduce their mistakes, and hence became the so-called "majority text" whereas other areas lost their Greek and produced the New Testament in their own language. Simple and easy.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I have big issue with people who obsess over wording and versions more than they do the actual message. It's like they missed the whole point of the bible. It's like they're obsessive compulsive which can be a serious disorder.

 

[CoooCaw]

With those few words you show how you have been snowed.

The so called "earliest"(ie Sinaiaticus and Vaticanus) Greek manuscripts have huge differences between each other; they differ more from each other than they do from the true Received Greek Bible Text.

The discovery of Vaticanus and particularly Sinaiaticus was a huge con cooked up by the Bible hating papists in the vatican.

You are either a stooge for them or at least a dupe.

The KJV is superior but not perfect. I have on occasion found it necessary to correct the KJV.
I would not try to correct the ISV, I would just throw it out.

Only minor differences between the earliest manuscripts in Greek. And no points which touch on doctrine. Hebrew is a bit more complex, because Jesus and the apostles quoted from both the Hebrew and the Greek (LXX) manuscripts, meaning neither is valued over the other.

As for KJV, it has served the English speaking world well. Time to move on to current English. The Byzantine texts were the majority, only because they spoke Greek and continue to reproduce their mistakes, and hence became the so-called "majority text" whereas other areas lost their Greek and produced the New Testament in their own language. Simple and easy.

 

[CoooCaw]

Good question Eddie,



if you google it carefully the only INSPIRED edition of the KJV is the Cambridge 2nd Edition of the 1769 verson

all clear??

Chosen, I am not trying to get into this debate by no means, as I have not really looked into it. I will say, I do like the KJ as well as the NASB. I can understand the KJ and really don't see a difference between it and the NASB. The NIV, eh, not to fond of it, but that's just me. Anyway, I have a serious (to me) question. A couple of years ago I was having a conversation with a fellow about the KJ Bible. He asked me which version I had. I told him I didn't have a clue. He goes to his car and comes back with this huge (thick) Bible. He told me it was an actual 1611 KJ Bible and that he paid a lot of money for it. He didn't say how much. I started thumbing through it and it was nothing like my KJ. He showed me a section after the Old Testament and said I bet your KJ don't have that. I didn't have my KJ with me but told him that I knew for sure it didn't have that section. He just giggled and never explained it to me. I went home and looked at my KJ and it also said 1611 authorized version, but it was nothing like his. My question is this; what in the world did he have? Was it really a KJ? I never really thought nothing else about it until I started reading this thread. I have heard a few preachers condemn versions that were not KJ. After reading through here, it seems that you have done some research on this. If you don't mind, could you give me your thoughts on my question. I will go and do some research on my own also. Thanks!

Eddie

 

[Agricola]

It's indicative of a cult that its cult members literally worship the idol of their obsession, which in this case, is the King James Bible. Anybody can look through these other translations and see that they all say the same thing, just in slightly different ways. This KJV cult represents fanaticism at it's best. Quite honestly, if I know someone belongs to this cult, I tend to disregard most everything he or she says on other topics, based on the fact that if they're this weird about a translation, I can't imagine they'd be that sensible about anything else.

Correct, you can see how Chosenbyhim fails to engage properly in discussion and refuses to listen to logic and reason and simply repeats everything, just as all cult members do. I have shown a number of times over past weeks how this cult and its leaders rant on and find faults all over the place, the basic small things can easily be shown to be wrong, such as objecting over the use of Nose Ring, when in fact its perfectly correct usage of the word.

I have said all along that if you can find fault in the small things, then you can never trust the big things. If a teacher tells you 4+5 = 18 then you are not going to trust them to teach you advanced math. If the King James Only Cult mess up with the small "errors" then they are not to be trusted with anything they say.

 

[Agricola]

Another good indicator that the King James Only bunch are a cult, is that like most other cults they take 1 thing and make it central to thier cult and everything esles is based around it. In this case its the Psalm 12:6-7 verse

6 The wordes of the Lord are pure wordes: as siluer tried in a fornace of earth purified seuen times. 7 Thou shalt keepe them, (O Lord,) thou shalt preserue them, from this generation for euer.

Note how we dont speak like this anymore... an obvious mistake by God?

Anyway i urge you to read the whole Psalm and see it in context. Precious metals are refined numerous times, the more refining the more pure it becomes. The number 7 of course is Pure and Perfect, another good study to do. This simple is showing that Gods word is pure and perfect nothing else. however the cult have taken this to mean the 7th version of the English Bible is the pure version... this has numerous flaws in itself, as there has to be a lot of creative working in order to make the 1611 the "perfect 7th version."

THe more you look at this cults claims the more you see how pathetic it is.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Another good indicator that the King James Only bunch are a cult, is that like most other cults they take 1 thing and make it central to thier cult and everything esles is based around it. In this case its the Psalm 12:6-7 verse

6 The wordes of the Lord are pure wordes: as siluer tried in a fornace of earth purified seuen times. 7 Thou shalt keepe them, (O Lord,) thou shalt preserue them, from this generation for euer.

Note how we dont speak like this anymore... an obvious mistake by God?

Anyway i urge you to read the whole Psalm and see it in context. Precious metals are refined numerous times, the more refining the more pure it becomes. The number 7 of course is Pure and Perfect, another good study to do. This simple is showing that Gods word is pure and perfect nothing else. however the cult have taken this to mean the 7th version of the English Bible is the pure version... this has numerous flaws in itself, as there has to be a lot of creative working in order to make the 1611 the "perfect 7th version."

THe more you look at this cults claims the more you see how pathetic it is.

Agricola, your issue is with the heart. You have set yourself up as the final authority.

The beliefs of a King James Bible believer is that the word of God is perfect. The side that you are on which is the Alexandrian side, believes that the Bible is just another book, they believe you can critique it and correct it and they also believe that it is okay to continue to amend the text. That is why you have all these wicked and perverted modern day bibles that attack Jesus Christ and His deity.

Another thing that the Alexandrian "higher education" philosophy and movement believes is that the bibles are actually getting better.

Now that is funny, because that belief of the Alexandrians lines up with EVOLUTION! Isn't that something.

I can assure you Agricola and all the other Alexandrians out there that the Bible is not just another book. It is THE BOOK!

It is the word of God.

Therefore you don't mess with it. And you do not correct it, you let it correct YOU.

The perfect and inerrant word of God is our English Bible. The King James Authorized Holy Bible. Read it, believe it and study it. And while you study it, make sure you rightly divide it.

You have got to be dispensational and premillennial in your view. Because if you are not premillennial, then you are not going to take the Bible literally.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

It's indicative of a cult that its cult members literally worship the idol of their obsession, which in this case, is the King James Bible. Anybody can look through these other translations and see that they all say the same thing, just in slightly different ways. This KJV cult represents fanaticism at it's best. Quite honestly, if I know someone belongs to this cult, I tend to disregard most everything he or she says on other topics, based on the fact that if they're this weird about a translation, I can't imagine they'd be that sensible about anything else.

No they do not Shiloah, that is a lie. All the translations do not say the same thing.

You try telling some lost person or to some Muslim, and they'll laugh you down so fast your head will be spinning. They do not say the same thing. That is a total lie.

In fact, try arguing that in a court of law, and your case would not go any farther.

They couldn't all say the samething even if they wanted to. For a new translation to get a copyright, it has to have enough changes in its text to be considered an original work.

It is called the derivative copyright law. Go look it up.

What this issue is about is the word of God. It is not my preferences and it is not about your preferences. We are talking the pure words of the living God.

This is the standard one must deal with when handling the Scriptures:

5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. - Proverbs 30:5-6 (Holy Bible)

140 Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it. - Psalm 119:140 (Holy Bible)

And another thing too Shiloah, when it comes to different topics and subjects out there. In order to discern whether or not someone is telling you the truth, you judge everything they say by the Book. By the Scriptures.

If you or anybody else cannot offer the lost world a perfect Bible, well then there is a big problem. Because Satan has already fooled you into believing that there is no absolute truth.

Learn to trust God Shiloah. If God can preserve His saints. Then He also can preserve His pure words.

 

[ed2]

Good question Eddie,




if you google it carefully the only INSPIRED edition of the KJV is the Cambridge 2nd Edition of the 1769 verson

all clear??

Uhm, nope! I looked into it and the water just got real muddy. Ha ha. I will eventually sift through all of it though. One thing I did find interesting is there are not really any original 1611's floating around today. Even though my KJ says 1611, it would appear that it is really a 1769 version, as the great majority are. I also found that the 1611's do cost a lot, a whole lot. I do see why I have kind of been partial to the KJ and the NASB. They are both LITERAL translations of the original languages. But anyway, a lot of research left to do.

Eddie

 

[Agricola]

Agricola, your issue is with the heart. You have set yourself up as the final authority.

In the same way as you and your cult have set yourselves up to proclaim the King James is the final authority, based on a couple of verses twisted out of context and meaning?

I have already explained at length numerous times why God does not require us to have a perfect version, with every comma full stop and capitalization in place that must not be changed, that is bondage and requires faith that it is correct which opens doors for all kinds of problems.

Your disgusting threats and accusations are blasphemy and heretical. How dare you label me and others who reject your cults teachings as having issues with our "heart". That is bang out of order and yet another piece of evidence that you are a member of a disgusting filthy cult.