The Truth About Billy Graham

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Shiloah

Guest
#81
Question: Does heart purity have anything to do with salvation?

There is not a single mention in that response above about the heart of a believer being actually made pure. The purity that is spoken of is a FORENSIC ACCREDITATION of the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association teaches the Reformed Doctrine of "Imputed Righteousness" where the "obedient track record of Jesus" is "credited to the believers account." Thus salvation has NOTHING to do whatsoever with the heart of the believer being made pure.

The above answer clearly proves that the emphasis is on a FORENSIC CREDIT whereby the "righteousness of Christ" is a CLOAK for an ACTUAL STATE of iniquity.

Can anyone else see how Satan has COMPLETELY removed the aspect of REAL HEART PURITY being actualised in salvation? It is as plain as day folks.

Jesus said...

Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Jesus did not say "blessed are those who will be credited with 'my righteousness' to their account."

Paul quoted David...

Rom 4:6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
Rom 4:7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
Rom 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

David stated...

Psa 32:1 A Psalm of David, Maschil. Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven, whose sin is covered.
Psa 32:2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile.

These wolves skip over the last part verse two which says, "in whose spirit there is no guile." They can't teach that because they don't believe it. They preach a GUILE CLOAK instead of teaching that GUILE IS PURGED.

Jesus stated...

Mat 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

The context of verse 20 is CLEARLY in relation to heart purity for Jesus is speaking about the external manifestation of sin (ie. adultery/murder) and the root in the heart (lust/hate). Jesus says "YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS" and is thus addressing the actual state of the heart. The "Jesus Cloak" is an ear tickling HOAX.

Anyway I went to the Spiritual Growth Topics and looked up Grace as I was advised to do in the email and here is some of what I found...

That answer is a very subtle satanic lie dressed up to sound biblical. The answer first sets the trap by teaching that "good deeds cannot balance our bad deeds" which is true. It then teaches that you have to be PERFECT in order to enter heaven and of course no-one is perfect. Then the trap is sprung with the answer of a forensic transfer. There is nothing in that answer about HEART PURITY. The Bible teaches that the blood of Christ PURGES THE CONSCIENCE.

The basis of salvation in the answer above is SUBSTITUTION. In other words all one has to do is TRUST that Jesus was PUNISHED IN THEIR PLACE whereby the wrath due was satisfied in full. Believe that and PRESTO the magic exchange of your sin going to Jesus and His righteousness going to you takes place. You get the cloak so to speak. You are in the bubble.

Anyone who buys into that garbage as the basis for their salvation is extremely deceived.

Jesus simply did not die in our place. Jesus died on our behalf.

Jesus purchased us with His blood from the dominion of sin by dying on our behalf thus opening the door whereby we can be reconciled to God by dying with Christ through the baptism of repentance where our old man is crucified, that old man who lived a life in service to sin. Thus we die to sin in order that we live unto righteousness. This is the cross, not what Billy Graham and all the other celebrity preachers are teaching.

The cross is an instrument of death and we must die in order that we live. It is in dying with Christ that we are raised up with Him to newness of life where ALL things are made new. ALL THINGS means ALL THINGS.

These people preach a CLOAK for ongoing "service of sin." They might preach a lot of truths about morality and doing the right thing but their message is completely devoid of the mechanic whereby the HEART IS MADE PURE. Rip that out of the Gospel and you have no Gospel.

The message preached by these wolves completely eliminates the DEATH OF THE OLD MAN and thus there is NO PURGING OF THE HEART. Due to this their false gospel leaves converts still enslaved to sin. The converts under this lie remain inwardly defiled just like the Pharisees.

It is mind boggling as to how clearly the Bible lays all this out and yet millions of people cannot see it. It is a SPIRITUAL BLINDNESS which is encompassing the WHOLE EARTH.

Here is something else from that website...

Is that really what the Bible teaches? That Jesus died in order to pay the equivalent of your speeding fine?

My Bible says this...

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Why don't they quote that?

Or this...

Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The focus is always on WRATH SATISFACTION as opposed to BEING PURCHASED TO SERVE RIGHTEOUSNESS.

1Co 7:22 For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.
1Co 7:23 Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.
1Co 7:24 Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

These wolves never preach the gift of God within the context of being set free from the "service of sin" whereby we can then "serve righteousness." They never teach that.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

What they do preach is that believers are "set free from condemnation" due to the "penalty having been paid" and then people SHOULD serve righteousness out of gratitude for what has already taken place. It is a total perversion of what the Bible teaches.

The reason we serve righteousness is not out of gratitude, it is because in dying with Christ we die to the service of sin and thus become the servants of righteousness in that we are raised up with Christ to newness of life. It has nothing to do with gratitude for some penalty being paid. Jesus did not pay the penalty due sin. He died on our behalf in order to PURCHASE us from the dominion of sin.

For sure we are grateful for what Christ has done but the service of righteousness IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. We do it because we truly love God and love our neighbour having had our hearts purified by faith. The Spirit of God has regenerated or quickened us back to life in that we have been renewed by the Holy Ghost. In other words we have gone from darkness to light.

Please diligently examine these things.
I did, and your accusations are preposterous. Are you kidding? You're trashing this minister because he didn't use specific words you think HAVE to be used in his sermons or he's pushing a false doctrine-- "slyly infiltrated by Satan?" That's why the man brought so many people to Christ, because of Satan's sly change in wording you think you see that is obviously only visible to you? Hey, I'm going to examine everything you say and determine from my perspective if you worded everything just right. And if I don't think so? Then I'll claim you didn't use the right words, or you miss-worded the message, hence, you MUST be a false prophet. The other guy on the other thread talking about a denomination he believes is bogus is at least addressing an issue we can all see by looking (whether or not a certain church recognizes Christ as God). Then he shows a video where they church members themselves tell you they don't believe Christ is God. So there we are. We know. Your accusations are the flakiest off the wall accusations I've ever seen.
 
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my_adonai_

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2012
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#82
.Philippians 1:15-18 King James Version (KJV) 15 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good
will: 16 The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing
to add affliction to my bonds: 17 But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth,
Christ is preached; and I therein do
rejoice, yea, and will rejoice..

ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus
Christ himself being the "chief corner
stone"; 21 In whom all the "building fitly framed" "together groweth" unto an holy
temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God
through the Spirit.
 

my_adonai_

Senior Member
Mar 19, 2012
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#83
gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto
you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#84
There is not a single mention in that response above about the heart of a believer being actually made pure. The purity that is spoken of is a FORENSIC ACCREDITATION of the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF CHRIST. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association teaches the Reformed Doctrine of "Imputed Righteousness" where the "obedient track record of Jesus" is "credited to the believers account." Thus salvation has NOTHING to do whatsoever with the heart of the believer being made pure.
I can’t believe you would pick fight over trivialities. The writer actually alluded to "heart purity" here...
...So, in a sense, we are purified inwardly by God’s grace and Christ’s righteousness that covers our sin...


It’s just a matter of semantics, Skinski7. Calm down.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,420
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#85
I am not an angry man. But your insinuations that I need professional help I find quite insulting.

I have been married for 29 years & my wife has never seen rage in me.

As far as turning down your friend request, That was because you associate with some on here that would make an Muslim look like a choirboy & post your "likes" on their insults & mockings.

You also belong to Birds Of A Rare Feather http://christianchat.com/group.php?groupid=294 , That say this about their group:

What are we like minded about? This group is geared toward:

Non-Pentecostals
Non-Charasmatics
Non-Dispensationalists
Non-Premillennials

Non-Prosperity Gospel
Non-Hyper Preterists
Non-Super Apostles
Non-"Deliverance Ministry" types who see demons behind every bush.

That sounds a little too "cliquish" for my tastes being a Pentecostal pastor. Some might find that offensive. Why would I take a friend request from someone who runs with those who believe Pentecostals & Dispensationalists are heretics & going to Hell?
Regardless of what denomination anyone else or what or how they believe, my Church is right and so on and so forth.
With all these divisions, do you think God pleased? Is it not really all flesh acting as if it is from God and in the Spirit of God?

Where is the only true Tabernacle at?
What are the born again believers Spirit or Flesh?
Can flesh ever see the Kingdom?
And is this world God's Kingdom?
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#86
I can’t believe you would pick fight over trivialities. The writer actually alluded to "heart purity" here...




It’s just a matter of semantics, Skinski7. Calm down.
It is not a matter of semantics Starfield. Salvation as taught by Billy Graham and his association is purely of an abstract positional nature completely apart from any notion of inward heart purity wrought via the death of the old man whereby one can submit wholeheartedly to God.

"Confess, trust and receive" is not what is preached in the book of Acts. They did not preach a positional abstract salvation based on "trust in a provision." For you to think that this is an issue of semantics means your eyes are just as clouded as others.

Answers like the following are result of deep theological errors...

[h=2]If I commit a sin just before I die, and I don't have time to confess it to God or get His forgiveness, does that mean I won't go to heaven? — G.P.[/h]





No, it does not. If you have truly given your life to Jesus Christ and are trusting Him alone for your salvation, then He has cleansed you of all your sins—past, present and future. When we came to Christ, "God ... forgave us all our sins" (Colossians 2:13).

You see, your salvation depends on only one thing: what Jesus Christ accomplished when He died on the cross for us. Why did He do that? He did it for one reason: so He could become the final and complete sacrifice for all our sins. He was without sin, but on the cross all your sins and my sins were placed on Him, and He died in our place. As the Bible says, "Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God" (1 Peter 3:18).

Now God offers us salvation as a free gift—a gift that Jesus Christ has already purchased for us. What must we do in response? We must reach out in faith and accept it as our own, and that is what I invite you to do today. God loves you and yearns for you to spend eternity with Him in heaven. Ask Christ to come into your life and forgive all your sins—and He will.

Yes, we need to seek God's forgiveness whenever we sin so our fellowship with Him will be restored. But when we know Christ, we know our relationship with Him will never change. Make sure of your salvation by trusting Christ and receiving Him into your heart and life today.
BGEA: If I commit a sin just before I die, and I don't have time to confess it to God or get His forgiveness, does that mean I won't go to heaven?


Do you really think the following is a matter of semantics?

You see, your salvation depends on only one thing: what Jesus Christ accomplished when He died on the cross for us.
What must we do in response? We must reach out in faith and accept it as our own, and that is what I invite you to do today.
People who buy into that are not coming to salvation. They are coming to a false notion of salvation believing that Jesus swapped places with them. There is no approaching God with a TRUE HEART whereby one confesses and forsakes their sin via godly broken sorrow producing a repentance unto salvation. This false Gospel has eliminated that and thus people are coming under a notion of salvation with the Old Man still INTACT. The axe is never laid to the root of iniquity in the heart and therefore the implanted word is never received with meekness.

Call it semantics all you like but future sins are most assuredly NOT forgiven in advance because the Bible clearly states that if we "willfully sin" after having being sanctified then there remains no more sacrifice for sins because it is treating the grace of God with contempt and the blood of Christ like animal blood which could not actually cleanse one from ALL sin.
 

starfield

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2009
3,393
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#87
For you to think that this is an issue of semantics means your eyes are just as clouded as others.
You are being deceitful and need to repent of this slander. Once again, the writer FULLY alluded to "heart purity" (the word you're looking for :rolleyes:), so what's your beef? Why do you delight in sowing discord among God's children, Skinski7? That seems to be your primary motive.

He rightly emphasised God's grace and the work of Christ in regeneration whereas you just love to stress on self-effort in regeneration.
..
...So, in a sense, we are purified inwardly by God’s grace and Christ’s righteousness that covers our sin...


For the record, my eyes are not clouded for I don't view salvation as abstract and positional in nature, disconnected from inward purity, so please stop this false accusation.


 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
16,420
448
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#89
Skinski I am seeing this, as well as others are missing this. To die to self daily, trust God in you asking God for this to be co-crucified with Christ at the cross.
So just maybe you might be able to see the resurrection and be raised to the new life that we all are called to be in.
Dead to flesh and alive to God in the Spirit of God where Romans 6, comes home as truth, being born again in the Spirit of God is God's doing, not ours, it is our asking for and Christ ask and you shall receive.
Is God's will for us to be righteous or us to be righteous of God through the resurrected Christ in God's Spirit.where no one can be proud and or boastful except in God
 
Nov 26, 2011
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#90
Me in blue.


You are being deceitful and need to repent of this slander. Once again, the writer FULLY alluded to "heart purity" (the word you're looking for :rolleyes:), so what's your beef? No he didn't, he alluded to heart purity within the context of the "imputed righteousness of Christ" which is purely a positional in application. If the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was preaching genuine heart purity then they would not teach that you can commit a willful act of rebellion right before you die and still enter the kingdom due to the "price being paid."

That answer alone definitely proves that they view the concept of salvation us purely forensic, completely set apart from the condition of the heart.

Why do you delight in sowing discord among God's children, Skinski7? That seems to be your primary motive. Any message which preaches salvation as an abstract identification apart from an actual MANIFEST rebirth is a satanic lie. You may view such an exposure of such things as "sowing discord" when it is actually "contending earnestly for the faith once delivered."

If I was to write the BIlly Graham Evangelistic Association and ask them, "does a child molester have to stop molesting children BEFORE God will forgive them" I have no doubt whatsoever in my mind that their answer would be an emphatic NO! The reason they would say no is because they believe in the cross as a "provisional paying of the sin debt" thus justification is rooted in a forensic judicial legal exchange and NOT on a heart "being faithful to God."

While one might take the state of "justification being premised on a heart being faithful to God" and interpret that as "saving oneself or works salvation" such an interpretation is of ignorance because justification is rooted in the redemption only found in Christ, the dynamic of which PRODUCES a faithful heart. Hence a child molester MUST cease his vile activity via "godly sorrow working a repentance unto salvation" BEFORE he can be saved and forgiven.

These wolf ministries preach "confess, trust and receive" which lacks the dynamic which produces the death of the old man whereby it is made possible to yield faithfully to God.

No death = No rebirth.


He rightly emphasised God's grace and the work of Christ in regeneration whereas you just love to stress on self-effort in regeneration.
.. What you are failing to understand is that what you perceive as a "right emphasis" is purely within the context of ABSTRACT salvation. There is no DEATH OF THE OLD MAN in their message.

This "self effort" you are speaking of is the dynamic of WORKING TOGETHER WITH GOD lest grace be received in vain (2Cor 6:1).

The fallacy of monergism is that it treats human beings as "virtue disabled sin robots." In other words the "sin robots" can only operate within a framework of their "sin programming" and it takes an "intervention of soveriign grace" to enable the virtuous choice. This is why monergism earnestly contends against teaching that the sinner had to "do something" apart from trust.

The truth of the matter is that God's grace has appeared to all men and that the light that lights every man is already active. Thus there is no "offsetting" of a "sin program needed" because God is ALREADY DRAWING ALL MEN. God has given all human being the CHOICE of whether to respond to this call or not.

When sin abounds God's grace abounds even more which means God is patient and gives sinners much time. In order for salvation to be wrought the sinner must CHOOSE to begin yielding to God and the first step is to diligently seek God whereby the work of a godly sorrow can begin to work the genuine change of mind necessary in order that one abide in the word.

The false teachers do not understand this and their theology eliminates it. Thus they preach a message of "trust and wait" instead of "repent and obey."

Thus is the converts of the system of error remain DOUBLE-MINDED still in bondage to various sins. While their lives may be cleaned up to a certain extent they never adopt the SINGLE EYE approach to God. Thus inward defilement remains due to the axe having NEVER been laid to the root of iniquity within the heart.

This is why the theology of the system of error will ALWAYS contend in favour of ongoing sin being permissible. Whilst ongoing sin is not sanctioned in the sense that "it is ok" it is nonetheless sanctioned within the context of the "sinning less and less" of how sanctification is taught.

When someone comes along and exposes this error and teaches that genuine salvation is inclusive of the SINGLE EYE (ie. one had truly died to the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life it is utterly scorned and rejected. The Bible clearly teaches that a time would come when the truth would not be accepted and that people would heap to themselves teachers who would tickle their ears with false doctrine.

The falling away has already happened and there is a famine in the land.



For the record, my eyes are not clouded for I don't view salvation as abstract and positional in nature, disconnected from inward purity, so please stop this false accusation.
What you believe is self contradictory.

On the one hand you will preach against ongoing sin and that men are held accountable for their conduct. On the other hand you uphold the Augustinian notion of "inborn sin" inherited from Adam whereby "sin is necessitated by the flesh." How you reconcile the two is beyond me.

You also appear to defend the 400 year old doctrine of "Penal Substitution" whereby the "passing over of sin due an individual" is due to Jesus being the "wrath substitute for the sinner." Yet on the other hand you clearly preach a "conditional security" and thus refute OSAS. If Jesus "paid the price" by "absorbing the wrath due the individual" then that wrath penalty is PAID FOR IN FULL and cannot be made due again. I have asked you before how you reconcile that contradiction in your theology and I don't think you have ever answered it.

If the wrath still abides on the disobedient then there is no possibly way that Jesus satisfied the wrath on behalf of the disobedient with the clear implication being that Jesus did not die for everyone. At least the Calvinist's are consistent with their preaching of OSAS in conjunction with Penal Substitution.


 
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