The Necessity of Tongues For Prayer Language

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P. S., 11 Cor 143:39 is the word languages also, not tongues. God is testing the tongue speakers now as He did then to see if you rally believe in Him or yourself.
Just as O.T. Israel had sings like the Saturday Sabbath so was tongues.
(1Cor 14:21) In the law it is written, With [men of] other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
(1Cor 14:22) Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying [serveth] not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
Do you think when ppl go into a church today and see ppl jumping the pews and running the isles and screaming at the top of their lungs, is to be believed?
 
If at most, tongues stated back in the 1800's with a few well crazed individuals, and only came into full explosion in these last days.

Wrong. There are recorded instances of tongues throughout history.



If tongues was still in God's will it would have been used for all of the last 1900 years of the church.

"If God wanted us to believe in sola fide, sola scriptura etc, then it would have been believed and used for all of the last 1900 years of the church".
But you wouldn't believe like that if you were talking about sola fide, sola scriptura etc would you now because of the whole Catholic church thing?
How can you hold both positions without sounding like a hypocrite?


We know from these certain facts from the history of the church that it is Gods will to obey Rev 22 and not to use this false Satanic practice of speaking in tongues.

Hey, we're not the one calling the gifts of God's Holy Spirit a satanic practice. That's your problem if you want to blaspheme the Spirit.

You talk about berean, we got it right up thee with them. Maybe you should read Camping's book on it to get all the facts, He is accurate in his interpretation and in his finding of truths.

He's an amateurish "theologian" who has been shown a heretic on a handful of key christian doctrines.
 
BLC- the word in the original greek is not tongues, that is a misnomer, the word is languages!
Anyone speak French?

In case you overlooked paragraphs 3 & 4 of post #95 here it is. A tongue is understood to be a language and tongues is only the plural form and nothing else.

'The scriptures have been translated into various tongues so that people can read and understand in their own language. When the book of Acts recorded tongues being used, those from around the world heard the gospel of Christ in their own language from those that were Galileans. Today believers are saved, being trained and going back to their own people and preaching the gospel in their own language. Perhaps, the national tongue would only be necessary if there was an appointed time for salvation for an individual or group and no one in the same tongue was available to bring the gospel. This national gift of tongues could also be used in communicating a message to those who live in unbelief and need a sign to hear from God from someone who does not speak their language.

If a beautiful Chinese Christian came to your church let's say in North Carolina, USA and spoke 15 minutes in his own language, no one would be edified because they would not have understood what he was saying. If he had someone to interpret or he interpreted himself in the English language then all would be edified and that is far better then to hear and not understand. The whole thing in speaking in any tongue in any situation whether unto God or man, it should be with understanding and if it can not be with understanding then is should be refrained because it will not magnify God or edify the church'.

The gift of tongues as a national language is a sign to the unbeliever and for the purpose of communicating God's message in a tongue that can be understood. If this is the gift that God has given some in the church and it is used for that purpose and with understanding, then God is magnified and the church is edified with the salvation of souls being added to the church. These souls that are added should remain in the fellowship and continue in the faithful doctrine of that church.
 
In case you overlooked paragraphs 3 & 4 of post #95 here it is. A tongue is understood to be a language and tongues is only the plural form and nothing else.

'The scriptures have been translated into various tongues so that people can read and understand in their own language. When the book of Acts recorded tongues being used, those from around the world heard the gospel of Christ in their own language from those that were Galileans. Today believers are saved, being trained and going back to their own people and preaching the gospel in their own language. Perhaps, the national tongue would only be necessary if there was an appointed time for salvation for an individual or group and no one in the same tongue was available to bring the gospel. This national gift of tongues could also be used in communicating a message to those who live in unbelief and need a sign to hear from God from someone who does not speak their language.

If a beautiful Chinese Christian came to your church let's say in North Carolina, USA and spoke 15 minutes in his own language, no one would be edified because they would not have understood what he was saying. If he had someone to interpret or he interpreted himself in the English language then all would be edified and that is far better then to hear and not understand. The whole thing in speaking in any tongue in any situation whether unto God or man, it should be with understanding and if it can not be with understanding then is should be refrained because it will not magnify God or edify the church'.

The gift of tongues as a national language is a sign to the unbeliever and for the purpose of communicating God's message in a tongue that can be understood. If this is the gift that God has given some in the church and it is used for that purpose and with understanding, then God is magnified and the church is edified with the salvation of souls being added to the church. These souls that are added should remain in the fellowship and continue in the faithful doctrine of that church.

Exactly and they spoke in each man's language. But as I said to those who still profess it, I still go with todays Rev 22 that tongues is over, and it is clear today that is is not of God due to it being mixed with satanic practices. You cannot share god and satan in the same pot.
 
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WHATS THE DEAL WITH YOU GUYS? ARE YOU NOT SATISFIED UNLESS YOU HAVE A BIG STINKIN FIGHT STIRRED UP?

HOW WOULD YOU LIKE IT IF ALL THE PENTECOSTALS POSTED EVERY FLAW THEY SAW WITH THE BAPTIST CHURCH?


Hey guys, I was Pentecostal for many years, and never spoke in tongues, but I did try mimicking it once, and a friend of mine said that he had stammering lips. Oh, and yea, I was sitting home alone one day and sneezed, and I babbled something like , one or two words and then I thought I was speaking in tongues, but it never happened again. A few years later, when I was going to collage, i fell asleep on the campus grass and upon waking up i heard myself say abba father and I found a pen, Didn't think much of what it was all about then, but I think the pen was a sign not to practice martial arts which i was doing for a time.
 
Exactly and they spoke in each man's language. But as I said to those who still profess it, I still go with todays Rev 22 that tongues is over, and it is clear today that is is not of God due to it being mixed with satanic practices. You cannot share god and satan in the same pot

That's right Blu, and every pentecostsal church I've been going to they hold a big seance and sit naked inside a bit pentagram symbol on the floor and speak in tongues yeah right. Don't be stupid man watch what you say hey you know nothing about tongues.
 
Wrong. There are recorded instances of tongues throughout history.


You are wrong for saying I am wrong, I searched it up a long time ago.


"If God wanted us to believe in sola fide, sola scriptura etc, then it would have been believed and used for all of the last 1900 years of the church". I was not talking about anything but the tongue movement.
But you wouldn't believe like that if you were talking about sola fide, sola scriptura etc would you now because of the whole Catholic church thing?
How can you hold both positions without sounding like a hypocrite?
That is all in your mind, I have no idea of what you are talking a bout now.



Hey, we're not the one calling the gifts of God's Holy Spirit a satanic practice. That's your problem if you want to blaspheme the Spirit.
You still do not get the picture, My question to you was, how can you mix and match good and evil and call it good?


He's an amateurish "theologian" who has been shown a heretic on a handful of key christian doctrines.
Right, that is what I said about your Dr. white, I am glad you agree with me on that issue. So we agree on some things.
 
you call spiritual gifts that God poured out on His people as poison, Wow!!! you believe only the parts of the Bible you want to believe (2Thes 2:9) [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

while the Bible also tell us that
oe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.
but because of your unbelief you will not see these signs except though your eyes as seeing them as evil, because you only want to believe the parts of the Bible as you see it and not as the whole Bible as truth.

Let me rephrase this, How can you mix good and evil and call it good? Falling over backward, false miracles, and tongue speaking in the same church services. (2Thes 2:9) [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(Rev 13:14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The image spoken of here is a pastors in the churches, the ones he gives life to based on: (2Thes 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
So is this the business you worship, or would you rather be a true Christian? Call on God for help!
 
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. You talk about berean, we got it right up thee with them. Maybe you should read Camping's book on it to get all the facts, He is accurate in his interpretation and in his finding of truths.

I keep seeing you refer to Revelation 22 as stating that tongues are over. It says nothing about that. I believe these are the verses you are referring to;

Revelation 22:18-19 (New King James Version)
18 For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; 19 and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

What do you think you are doing when you procaim tongues, whether used in prayer or otherwise, are no longer given as a gift?

As I stated in an earlier post (post #102) in this thread, there are also people who try and twist 1 Cor. 13-18, saying that the canonical Bible is the “Perfect” referred to in this passage. If you read that post, you would see it is not. Yet the same people using these verses to try and discount tongues claim to have knowledge, which this passage says will vanish away when the “Perfect” comes (I might also add they claim to still speak prophecy”). How can these two still be in effect, when the passage says they will not??
As I also stated in that post, the “Perfect” which comes and makes these things no longer necessary, is the Kingdom Christ brings with him upon His return. I probably should have included the next two verses, which would have brought greater understanding:

1 Corinthians 13:8-12 (New King James Version)
8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

It is when we are FACE TO FACE with Christ that these things will no longer be needed. When we are face to face with God, why would we need anything else?

Of course, there are those who misuse these things for their own motives. You yourself said you even tried to “mimic” tongues (I wonder what your motive was). There will be those who try and deceive people, just as there are false teachers out there. However, this not nullify God’s gifts, which He still gives and are still in effect

Also, I have heard you refer to tongues as “gibberish”, “parrot talk”,and “babblings”. If it is all foolishness to you, you should remember that God uses the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise (1Cor. 27).

One final piece of advice and I am done in this thread. I would advise you stop exalting (heaping up) Camping and start searching the scriptures and praying to God for direction. Camping may scratch your ears, but he cannot open them.
 
Are you misquoting my on spite. I told you that after Rev 22 tells us that we are not to add, then it was that speaking in tongues became as poison. You seem to be the one in trying to make things out your own way, go back and read the thread, and do not misquote me it constitutes bearing false witness, if you know what I mean! You Just ignore what i have said and rebutt me with gobble. Read and question my remarks or shut up!

whoa A little touchy here dude. catch a breath, calm down a little, you misunderstand the gift of tongues. or should I say prophecy, there is two types of prophecy, one type is of salvation. this is the prophecy addressed in rev. 22. there is other things God reveals through prophecy that doesn't touch His prophecy on salvation such as Ac 21:8And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.Ac 21:9And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.Ac 21:10And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.Ac 21:11And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.Ac 21:12And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
God revealed to Paul through Phillip that if he went, He would be caught, didn't change a thing about the Prophecy of the Bible, but warned Paul Of trouble around the corner. Jesus prophecised to the diciples about when He went away , that not many days after, the Holy Ghost would be poured out on them, didn't change a thing, about the fact that He had just layed down His life for them and that He had just defeated death, hell and the Grave that they might have life. so God let's people know things about to come, through prophecy, He did it in the Old testament, and in the new testament and He still does it today. You have been blinded to how God works because you have a closed mind about what prophecy, that rev. talks about now if Another prophet had told Paul that it was ok to go. and God would keep Him safe, then one just changed the prophecy of God which would also be wrong. But rev 22 in affirming not to believe another gospel, don't change the prophecy which says that the Groom and the bride says come, let who ever come, say come and let them taste of the water of life freely, the gospel summed up in one verse. God has revealed the Gospel through Prophecy, the old teastament saints had to believe it, was coming, we believe salvation is coming through prophecy of this Book, we can't change this prophecy such as to say that we need another book to add to such as the book of Mormans. But to say that God won't warn a certain Church of sardis of things about to take place in the Church, if they don't heed to Him. is putting God In a box and say God you can't warn your children of bad or good times about to come, for You will be going against Your own Word. this Is just plain ignorance of Scripture and how God works and has worked and will continue to works regardless if you put limits on God. those limits only apply to you and not God for He Is God.
 
Observations Concerning Tongues and the Believer in 1Corinthians 14
  1. If the gift of tongues is truly given to the church then it is given to some and not all (*1Cor 12:10,11).
  2. The gift is given as a sign to unbelievers and should never be used for prophesy (v/22).
  3. If the gift of tongues is exercised it must have an interpretation so that others can understand what is being spoken (v/5,13,27).
  4. Speaking in tongues provides no useful advantage or profit to the church (v/6).
  5. Even if I pray in my spirit in an (unknown) tongue, my understanding is unfruitful without an interpretation (v/13-15).
  6. The instances in scripture where tongues (or languages) were used as a national tongue that people heard in their own language (*Acts 2:6-8).
  7. There is no evidence in scripture of any special language given as an angelic tongue. All instances in scripture of angels visiting and speaking to man was done in a language understood by the recipient with no interpretation of the tongue.
  8. If any member desires the gift of tongues, the gift of prophecy should be encouraged over and above because of the understanding and edification it gives to the church (v/1-5).
  9. In (1Cor 14) there was a problem concerning this gift that Paul had to give instruction so that things would be done in the church decently and in order (v/40).
  10. No other church besides Corinth, in the NT, is recorded as exercising the gift of tongues in prayer or otherwise after Pentecost.
  11. Paul gave no instructions to any pastor-teacher or elder concerning the gift of tongues and its use in any other church.
  12. Caution or Exhortation - If the church come together and all speak in tongues, will not those that are unlearned or unbelievers think the church to be mad (v/23).
There is much more that could be said concerning the gift of tongues and it's usefulness in the church and the unbeliever. A reasonable conclusion for the believer could be this. If you seek the gift of tongues as a gift, you better know what you are seeking, you better know how to use it and for what purpose it is given, you should know who it is subject to and how it is to profit the church and be fruitful. If you don't understand what you are seeking it is better that you leave it alone and go on to perfection (maturity-Heb 6:1). It is only a gift, it can only last for a duration of time before it is done away with and you do not need it for salvation or to be Spirit-filled or to win the lost. It will not keep you from fulfilling the lust of the flesh nor does it replace any of the commandments that we are to do and to teach. If we do not have that gift we are missing nothing in our relationship with God or with one another. The body of Christ can be edified by grace and truth without that gift. That gift can add nothing to the cross of Christ and does not reveal the righteousness of God. However, if you have that gift and you want to exercise it for the purpose it is given and under subjection to the leadership of the church, then you should not be forbidden to do so decently and in order.
 
to say that God doesn't use the gifts anymore to let His people know of things to come is to violate rev 22 itself for the scriptures says that God will reveal things through His spirit 1co 2:9But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.1co 2:10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.1co 2:11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
 
  1. If the gift of tongues is truly given to the church then it is given to some and not all (*1Cor 12:10,11).
I believe that is correct according to scripture. But let's not forget that tongues above all other manifestations was frequently seen to occur with new converts, in the book of Acts. But sadly, many in the church today have interpreted "some" to mean "little" or even "none". This is despite tongues being listed by Jesus in Mark 16:17 along with healing and demonic deliverance so tongues is relatively important and not an insignificant gift.


  1. The gift is given as a sign to unbelievers and should never be used for prophesy (v/22).
With interpretation it is more or less the same as prophecy. Then it becomes useful to believers.

  1. If the gift of tongues is exercised it must have an interpretation so that others can understand what is being spoken (v/5,13,27).
Only in the context of the public assembly if it is to be spoken for the edification of all. Tongues in church may be spoken privately between yourself and God. Tongues in private may be spoken without interpretation.
  1. Speaking in tongues provides no useful advantage or profit to the church (v/6).
In the context of delivering inspired messages , yes. But it is useful to the individual members of the church for personal edification, and through that mechanism may benefit the whole.


  1. Even if I pray in my spirit in an (unknown) tongue, my understanding is unfruitful without an interpretation (v/13-15).
Yes that's normally what a a strange "unknown tongue" means - you can't understand it.

  1. The instances in scripture where tongues (or languages) were used as a national tongue that people heard in their own language (*Acts 2:6-8).
That is only partly correct. The purpose of tongues was not to be heard in a common and understood language, but in a foreign language i.e. another or strange tongue::

Isa 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

And if tongues was always heard in a commonly understood language, Paul would have no need to have said "pray for interpretation" ( 1 Cor 14:13).
Paul saying they should get interpretation, pretty much disproves the common myth that tongues is always in a common langauge that others should be able to understand, such as, in French to french people, and German to german people, etc, it's not meant to be like that at all.

  1. There is no evidence in scripture of any special language given as an angelic tongue.
But there is evidence in scripture to show that tongues is meant to be not understood. Tongues is not meant to be in a commonly known language but in one which is rare or perhaps even totally unheard of before in human history. The God who made many diverse tongues at the tower of babel may use any language he wishes to, and this is normally a rare language. I dont know what language angels speak, but I would think that humans are unable to utter it.



  1. All instances in scripture of angels visiting and speaking to man was done in a language understood by the recipient with no interpretation of the tongue.
Yes but I fail to see the connection between angels visiting and speaking to men, and the g ift of tongues .

  1. If any member desires the gift of tongues, the gift of prophecy should be encouraged over and above because of the understanding and edification it gives to the church (v/1-5).
That is true that tongues has more value in church. Yet in all churches which say similar, I have seen neither tongues nor prophecy exercised. It's a bit hypocritical to say, "prophecy is more important in the church", when those who say that don't ever use the gift of prophecy in the church. I think it's really a lame excuse for why they don't believe in tongues.

  1. In (1Cor 14) there was a problem concerning this gift that Paul had to give instruction so that things would be done in the church decently and in order (v/40).
As 1 Cor 14: 16 shows, it was not just about the gift of tongues, but a more general problem involving the use of prophecy, the chattering women, the doctrines , revelations, psalms. Don't blame the gift and think this means you can neglect it.

  1. No other church besides Corinth, in the NT, is recorded as exercising the gift of tongues in prayer or otherwise after Pentecost.
The fact that the Corinthian church did use tongues and Paul encouraged it, supports its use. I think it's a little bit hypocritical when people desire to follow Paul's instructions on love etc, but think they can disregard what he said about spiritual gifts.

  1. Paul gave no instructions to any pastor-teacher or elder concerning the gift of tongues and its use in any other church.
There is no clear prohibition for the use of tongues in any of scripture. But more a correction for how it is used, amongst other things, such as prophecy, due to a more general problem of disorder. Unlike yourself, Paul did not seem to have an issue with the use of the gift of tongues itself, whether privately or corporately.

  1. Caution or Exhortation - If the church come together and all speak in tongues, will not those that are unlearned or unbelievers think the church to be mad (v/23).
As I said before this was not a problem about the gift of tongues specifically, but the general failure for all things to be done to edify and in order. There are many churches who do things disorderly and don't use the spiritual gifts. As Paul said the use of the gift of tongues and prophecy was not the problem, he in fact encouraged its use, but it was a more general problem of disorder which ranged from talking women to disorderly presentation of prophecies and psalms and doctrines etc.
 
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As I said, I think it's a little bit hypocritical when people desire to follow Paul's instructions on love etc, but think they can disregard what he said about spiritual gifts. "spiritual gifts have ceased", they say.

But if you think about it, spiritual gifts have ceased only if the gift-giver who is the Spirit has ceased. And if the Spirit has ceased you are not a Christian.

If spiritual gifts have ceased, you have no way to effectively edify the Church in the ability of the Holy Spirit, as Paul instructed them to do, and are reduced to a lot of man-made thinking, wisdom and humanistic pscyhology and self-help.

There are always two themes running throughout the bible, one is God's way and the life of the Spirit, the other is human strength and wisdom. The notion that the spiritual gifts have ceased, firmly belongs to the latter category of human wisdom and strength to accomplish the things of God.

Paul never said it was a gift from God to make cups of tea and put our chairs. Any dumbo can do that. But can you hear what the Spirit says to you and communicate an inspired message to others? If you need to heal someone could you use a gift and heal them rather than point them to a wordly medicine man and doctor? If someone needs encouragement would you turn to your latest and greatest teacher like Rick Warren or Joyce Meyer and give them a self-help book, or would you be able to listen to what the Spirit says and point them to the exact bible verse that they need at that time, or perhaps some other form of encouragement as the Spirit leads? If you need to teach someone say a new believer , could you do it if you dont have the gift of teaching?
The spiritual gifts are not useless and optional extras. You will find you are unable to effectively build up and love the body of Christ without them. That includes tongues, it has its purpose.
 
So I hope that all these people who say what tongues is and how to use it (despite them never actually speaking in tongues themselves it would appear), would take the initiative and show us how to more properly use the spiritual gifts, before passing judgement on those that have used the gifts for a number of years.
 
So I hope that all these people who say what tongues is and how to use it (despite them never actually speaking in tongues themselves it would appear), would take the initiative and show us how to more properly use the spiritual gifts, before passing judgement on those that have used the gifts for a number of years.

1Cor 14 (along with some other passages) is given to all believers as doctrine and instruction in the words of righteousness, so that we can know and understand the things that are freely given to us of God. If I understand what these passages of scripture teach and testify concerning the gift of tongues and you accuse me of passing judgment because I have not the gift, then you are accusing the scriptures of the same, that testify of the truth that is given for all and to all who believe.
 
whoa A little touchy here dude. catch a breath, calm down a little, you misunderstand the gift of tongues. or should I say prophecy, there is two types of prophecy, one type is of salvation. this is the prophecy addressed in rev. 22. there is other things God reveals through prophecy that doesn't touch His prophecy on salvation such as Ac 21:8And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him.Ac 21:9And the same man had four daughters, virgins, which did prophesy.Ac 21:10And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.Ac 21:11And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.Ac 21:12And when we heard these things, both we, and they of that place, besought him not to go up to Jerusalem.
God revealed to Paul through Phillip that if he went, He would be caught, didn't change a thing about the Prophecy of the Bible, but warned Paul Of trouble around the corner. Jesus prophecised to the diciples about when He went away , that not many days after, the Holy Ghost would be poured out on them, didn't change a thing, about the fact that He had just layed down His life for them and that He had just defeated death, hell and the Grave that they might have life. so God let's people know things about to come, through prophecy, He did it in the Old testament, and in the new testament and He still does it today. You have been blinded to how God works because you have a closed mind about what prophecy, that rev. talks about now if Another prophet had told Paul that it was ok to go. and God would keep Him safe, then one just changed the prophecy of God which would also be wrong. But rev 22 in affirming not to believe another gospel, don't change the prophecy which says that the Groom and the bride says come, let who ever come, say come and let them taste of the water of life freely, the gospel summed up in one verse. God has revealed the Gospel through Prophecy, the old teastament saints had to believe it, was coming, we believe salvation is coming through prophecy of this Book, we can't change this prophecy such as to say that we need another book to add to such as the book of Mormans. But to say that God won't warn a certain Church of sardis of things about to take place in the Church, if they don't heed to Him. is putting God In a box and say God you can't warn your children of bad or good times about to come, for You will be going against Your own Word. this Is just plain ignorance of Scripture and how God works and has worked and will continue to works regardless if you put limits on God. those limits only apply to you and not God for He Is God.

Cool, but why go back ward to the dead issue, I restated my position a few threads forward of that one, Did you think you won a victory or something? You are a pastor not a theologist, so anything you know is what you read in the bible or get from your theologist. You Exeges, and yet you Eiseges'ed my statement , how can you be of two minds? Your theory of tongues is Eisegesi! regardless of how many verses you use for the time that it was in effect. Now is the time!
Again, MY RESTATEMENT.
Let me rephrase this, How can you mix good and evil and call it good? Falling over backward, false miracles, and tongue speaking in the same church services. (2Thes 2:9) [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(Rev 13:14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The image spoken of here is a pastors in the churches, the ones he gives life to based on: (2Thes 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
So is this the business you worship, or would you rather be a true Christian? Call on God for help!
 
By the way Thad, are you pastor keith, or just falsifying your avatar to have us think you are the pastor?

You answer depends on what I might be impressed with. I have meet your kind before. :(Pss 120:7) I [am for] peace: but when I speak, they [are] for war.
 
Cool, but why go back ward to the dead issue, I restated my position a few threads forward of that one, Did you think you won a victory or something? You are a pastor not a theologist, so anything you know is what you read in the bible or get from your theologist. You Exeges, and yet you Eiseges'ed my statement , how can you be of two minds? Your theory of tongues is Eisegesi! regardless of how many verses you use for the time that it was in effect. Now is the time!
Again, MY RESTATEMENT.
Let me rephrase this, How can you mix good and evil and call it good? Falling over backward, false miracles, and tongue speaking in the same church services. (2Thes 2:9) [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
(Rev 13:14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
The image spoken of here is a pastors in the churches, the ones he gives life to based on: (2Thes 2:4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
So is this the business you worship, or would you rather be a true Christian? Call on God for help!


Joe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.Joe 2:32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
and again I say you have blinded yourself because you see a sign or wonder and it is evil to you. just as Jesus was evil to the pharicees and scribes. we are still in the days of the prophecy of Joel it was started at pentecost but is still going on, for the Moon has not turned to blood and to say that it was completed at pentecost is the say that Joel 2:32 has been completed and there is no more deliverance for those who call upon the name of the Lord. that too had to end at pentecost if prophecy and tongues ceased there is also I noticed you down speaking in angelic tongues while Paul said

1co 13:1Though I speak with the TONGUES of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Just ago ahead and live by the parts of the Bible you want to, I am praising the Lord for the parts He is allowing me to experience
 
Joe 2:28And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:Joe 2:29And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.Joe 2:30And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke.Joe 2:31The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.Joe 2:32And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.
and again I say you have blinded yourself because you see a sign or wonder and it is evil to you.
Wow! like you said, talk about being blinded by satan. I guess you do not have the gift of dscernment![/COLOR]

just as Jesus was evil to the pharicees and scribes. Accusing me again, I do get my reward for that. we are still in the days of the prophecy of Joel it was started at pentecost but is still going on, for the Moon has not turned to blood and to say that it was completed at pentecost is the say that Joel 2:32 has been completed and there is no more deliverance for those who call upon the name of the Lord. that too had to end at pentecost if prophecy and tongues ceased there is also I noticed you down speaking in angelic tongues while Paul said


The church began at pentecost,and the Joel story is from the prediction of christ to the end of the world.
(Mt 24:29) Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


1co 13:1Though I speak with the TONGUES of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.
Just ago ahead and live by the parts of the Bible you want to. , Speak for your self. For you sound as if you are incompetent and biblically illiterate. I am praising the Lord for the parts He is allowing me to experience


Oh boy, accused me again, More rewards for me. Not to sound like i dislike you, cause I do, but, How Pitiful you are as a bible commentator! Grow up and learn from Camping the real truth and stop picking and choosing what your mind tells you but read and pray for guidance on how to read and understand the bible. Good luck!
 
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