The Jezebel Spirit
- Thread starter Stephen63
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
1
Here 3rd John.
Describes very simply what some of you are talking about.
9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. 10 So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.
You really don't need to overcomplicate it by reverse engineering it into a flowchart of things to look at in the deep crevices of the shadows. The type of behavior you're looking for is out in the open. I know it destroys the fun of turning over every rock as we play the Christian equiv of Clue or Whodunnit.
Describes very simply what some of you are talking about.
9 I wrote to the church, but Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not welcome us. 10 So when I come, I will call attention to what he is doing, spreading malicious nonsense about us. Not satisfied with that, he even refuses to welcome other believers. He also stops those who want to do so and puts them out of the church.
You really don't need to overcomplicate it by reverse engineering it into a flowchart of things to look at in the deep crevices of the shadows. The type of behavior you're looking for is out in the open. I know it destroys the fun of turning over every rock as we play the Christian equiv of Clue or Whodunnit.
R
well if i have observed one thing in this thread it is that there is a -huge difference- between how 'jezebel' is defined by those basing their thoughts strictly on scripture in revelation 2 and how she is regarded by those who are getting their notions from other sources such as 'deliverance ministry' testimonies...
specifically the following...
scripturally derived definition according to revelation 2...jezebel...
...claims to be a prophet or exercises the role of a prophet
...teaches and commits sins such as sexual immorality and eating of food sacrificed to idols
definition derived from 'deliverance ministry' testimony...jezebel...
...is basically a control freak
...has an easily manipulated ally or puppet in the church leadership
these are two completely different definitions...it is not surprising that one is based on scripture and the other is not...
specifically the following...
scripturally derived definition according to revelation 2...jezebel...
...claims to be a prophet or exercises the role of a prophet
...teaches and commits sins such as sexual immorality and eating of food sacrificed to idols
definition derived from 'deliverance ministry' testimony...jezebel...
...is basically a control freak
...has an easily manipulated ally or puppet in the church leadership
these are two completely different definitions...it is not surprising that one is based on scripture and the other is not...
Last edited:
1
One common factor I keep seeing is that JS needs a passive Ahab/leader.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-6.html#post1115325
Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118529
Link---> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118609
So we have a passive male leader, being subjected to a dominate female.
A woman exercising authority over a man.
That's the Biblical template most point toward.
That's the biblical template for JS in the OT.
Woman exercising authority over man, taking over his leadership.
This must have been happening in the early church because Paul addresses it.
So the OT template for JS is a strong woman ruling her will over a weak/passive male.
In the NT Paul seems to be addressing the same thing when he instructs women not to exercise authority over men in the church and to remain in submission.
So I guess if we're really looking for JS in the church, we need to look for those churches that allow women to have authority over men in the church. Cuz clearly it didn't work out well for Ahab, and Paul tried to nip it too.
So which churches allow women to exercise authority over men?
There you will find your JS.
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-6.html#post1115325
Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118529
Link---> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118609
So we have a passive male leader, being subjected to a dominate female.
A woman exercising authority over a man.
That's the Biblical template most point toward.
That's the biblical template for JS in the OT.
Woman exercising authority over man, taking over his leadership.
This must have been happening in the early church because Paul addresses it.
So the OT template for JS is a strong woman ruling her will over a weak/passive male.
In the NT Paul seems to be addressing the same thing when he instructs women not to exercise authority over men in the church and to remain in submission.
So I guess if we're really looking for JS in the church, we need to look for those churches that allow women to have authority over men in the church. Cuz clearly it didn't work out well for Ahab, and Paul tried to nip it too.
So which churches allow women to exercise authority over men?
There you will find your JS.
1
So I guess to sum it up.
If we use the OT model, then JS is a strong woman who exercises authority over a man.
If we use the Rev 2 model, then JS is going to be someone who claims to be a prophetess/prophet.
Combine them together and you have an environment where women are allowed to exercise authority over men, and where people claim to be prophetesses/prophets.
If we use the OT model, then JS is a strong woman who exercises authority over a man.
If we use the Rev 2 model, then JS is going to be someone who claims to be a prophetess/prophet.
Combine them together and you have an environment where women are allowed to exercise authority over men, and where people claim to be prophetesses/prophets.
D
I agree with that......but there's a little more room for inclusion than just stating they are a prophetess I think. I once knew a woman who fit all the criteria but she claimed to be a gypsy who could speak to dead people, and basically tried to take authority on spiritual matters based on that claim anytime there was a discussion on spiritual topics. While she didn't call herself a prophet/prophetess....I think it still fits the role. She didn't claim to be a prophet of baal or any other false god.
Last edited by a moderator:
I've been reading this thread for days. It seems locked in a man made theory, supposedly based on some book the OP read.
It is BAD hermeneutics to try and make or prove a "doctrine" (and I use the term loosely with regards to this fictious JS) from ONE scripture! Especially when the term Jezebel "spirit" appears nowhere in the only passage.
This whole thread appears to be an attempt to put an ugly name upon women who seem controlling. Personally, the descriptions or examples I have read about so-called JS people sound very much like borderline personality and have little to do with the actual Biblical description of a woman named Jezebel in Rev 2!
Well, I always was someone to call a spade a spade! There is no support whatsoever in the Bible for this Jezebel spirit.
Can't we get back to discussing real issues in the Bible or perhaps how to grow closer to Christ in prayer? It irks me to no end that a thread on evangelism got hardly posts and it NEEDED to be discussed. This is just vain imaginings!!
Don't worry, I am convinced that this thread is about an nonbiblical topic after ploughing through pages and pages- I won't be back!
It is BAD hermeneutics to try and make or prove a "doctrine" (and I use the term loosely with regards to this fictious JS) from ONE scripture! Especially when the term Jezebel "spirit" appears nowhere in the only passage.
This whole thread appears to be an attempt to put an ugly name upon women who seem controlling. Personally, the descriptions or examples I have read about so-called JS people sound very much like borderline personality and have little to do with the actual Biblical description of a woman named Jezebel in Rev 2!
Well, I always was someone to call a spade a spade! There is no support whatsoever in the Bible for this Jezebel spirit.
Can't we get back to discussing real issues in the Bible or perhaps how to grow closer to Christ in prayer? It irks me to no end that a thread on evangelism got hardly posts and it NEEDED to be discussed. This is just vain imaginings!!
Don't worry, I am convinced that this thread is about an nonbiblical topic after ploughing through pages and pages- I won't be back!
The spirit of jezebel is a spirit that seeks to remove the authority of the word of God from out of the church. And that spirit is very rampant in many of today's churches. That's why in the modern churches, a lot of them have stopped preaching the word of God. And now you have "purpose driven" churches. Which are churches that are filled with dull programs; why do they have all the rock music, the glittering lights and all the entertainment? Simple, they are trying to keep their church building funded. They want to keep their program alive.
And because they have forsaken the word of God, they lost their power. So they try to make it up with all the different programs and entertainment. And so on.
And any church that forsakes the preaching of the word of God, that very church is an apostate church.
Also what you have these days are "globalized" communities. Notice how you now see churches with names like Willow Creek Community Church, Saddleback Valley Community Church, Oakwood Community Church, Metropolitan Community Church, etc. See how everything is all about community now?
It's all part of the ecumenical movement to get people to unite at the expense of the truth.
And just like the spirit of Jezebel seeks to remove the authority from out of the churches. It also seeks to remove the authority of a husband from out of the homes.
And because they have forsaken the word of God, they lost their power. So they try to make it up with all the different programs and entertainment. And so on.
And any church that forsakes the preaching of the word of God, that very church is an apostate church.
Also what you have these days are "globalized" communities. Notice how you now see churches with names like Willow Creek Community Church, Saddleback Valley Community Church, Oakwood Community Church, Metropolitan Community Church, etc. See how everything is all about community now?
It's all part of the ecumenical movement to get people to unite at the expense of the truth.
And just like the spirit of Jezebel seeks to remove the authority from out of the churches. It also seeks to remove the authority of a husband from out of the homes.
I think John Paul Jackson is not ok. But he is not the only one mentioning a 'Jezebel spirit'. Better is, in my opinion, to say “spirits with Jezebel actions” instead of "a Jezebel spirit” as if it is one demon. Based on the bible I think it are spirits all over the world acting like Jezebel or Balaam or Nicolaitans. Not just one particular. And not only in women. I think spirits use people, also in church. They counterfeit the Holy Spirit. They counterfeit good doctrines.
As far as I see Rev 2 speaks not about "just an example of a false prophetess" because of the context. For example:
-God will kill the literal children of this false prophetess?
-ALL the churches shall know that God knows the hearts?
-What doctrine? What depths of Satan??
Doctrine
Jesus speaks of a group of people with a doctrine here... This 'woman' is she just seducing to fornicate, literally? Is fornication here a doctrine? Is she speaking a doctrine? Teaching? Is she speaking while fornicating openly?? Than it seems to me a church would know what to do. Why is Jesus saying I search the heart of men? It seems to me that Jesus speaks to several people following a person with doctrines. And Jesus calls this person Jezebel. And this doctrine brings bad works...not just (spiritual) fornication....also mentioned are things of the heart. Do people just bring up doctrines? Or are they work of false spirits? For the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD. Hos1:2 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Jac 4:4
When a 'so called prophetess' is speaking....NOT words of God...what words is she sowing? Satans seeds and doctrines. And that is exactly what Jezebel did in the old testament. When Jesus uses this name to explain the whole situation. You get the picture immediately.
Jezebel from the Old Testament?
But how can we be sure it pictures Jezebel from the Old Testament. Lets see some other names in Revelation. For example Babylon. Is it a system or a city or a literal woman or what? Is it possible that this is part of satans army and it operates in several ways?
So this so called woman, called city Babylon, also did fornicate. Were they all literally fornicating in Revelation?
More from Revelation 2:
Ephesus: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: Rev 2:2
Smyrna:I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9
Pergamos:But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev2:14-16
Thyatira Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
The first churches in Revelation all have a type of religious spirit working in their midst is my conclusion. I am not surprised, satan appears as an angel of light. Or would anyone say satan does only appear as an angel of light outside church? Of course satan counterfeits the Holy Spirit.
When Jesus Himself is setting pictures here with Old Testament type of figures and also groups types/doctrines. Calls them by those names. I see no problem doing it too.
Not literal Balaam but people acting LIKE him.
Not literal Jews but people LIKE them.
Not literal apostles but people LIKE them.
Literal Jezebel? I don't think so... People LIKE her.
So imagine....what type was she? Manipulating, rebellious, lying, hating Gods true works and Gods true leaders, scaring them. She hated the truth, she only wanted her version of it.
Spirits use people by seducing them into wrong thinking.
My conclusion is that spirits do this through using people. All works of the darkness are spiritual, spiritual darkness.
Jezebel wanted to kill Elijah.
Herod wanted to kill baby Jesus.
Mohammed wanted to kill the Jews.
Hitler wanted to kill the Jews.
A false prophet wants to 'kill' the real ones.
A false apostle breaks down the work of the real ones.
This is a battle not against people (flesh and blood) but against spirits (fallen angels).
there is no new thing under the sun Ecll 1:9
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.Ef 5:11
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not
against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ef 6:11,12
Wake up!
All persons from the Old testament are all gone. Babylon is destroyed. Balaam is not alive but both Peter and Jesus call him in the New Testament (2 Pet 2:13-18). We don't have literal Nicolaitans in churches. But all those spirits and entities from the past behind it are still here. That is what Jesus (and Peter) warns the church for. Wake up, be sober because satan is going around roaring like a lion. Satan will use everything he can even our own fleshly desires and thoughts, also when we read the bible.
Are there people acting like Jezebel and Achab because spirits use the same tactics? Yes for sure. And you learn discern those spiritual tactics by reading about Jezebel and Achab. Even Elijah would run for Jezebel - after he had prayed for fire on the Karmel! Lets not fool ourselves we would act better in the new testament than Elijah - have open eyes. This is not only about power woman, than Elijah would not have been so scared....read it.
Don't get tricked by just the word "prophet", not all people/false spirits in church use this word. Some just say "God showed me". Some not even say that but use some "church language" or "doctrins from internet". Take on the weaponry of God. Use your sword the Bible and test the spirits if they are of God.
As far as I see Rev 2 speaks not about "just an example of a false prophetess" because of the context. For example:
-God will kill the literal children of this false prophetess?
-ALL the churches shall know that God knows the hearts?
-What doctrine? What depths of Satan??
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works. But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. Rev 2:20-25
Doctrine
Jesus speaks of a group of people with a doctrine here... This 'woman' is she just seducing to fornicate, literally? Is fornication here a doctrine? Is she speaking a doctrine? Teaching? Is she speaking while fornicating openly?? Than it seems to me a church would know what to do. Why is Jesus saying I search the heart of men? It seems to me that Jesus speaks to several people following a person with doctrines. And Jesus calls this person Jezebel. And this doctrine brings bad works...not just (spiritual) fornication....also mentioned are things of the heart. Do people just bring up doctrines? Or are they work of false spirits? For the land hath committed great whoredom, departing from the LORD. Hos1:2 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Jac 4:4
When a 'so called prophetess' is speaking....NOT words of God...what words is she sowing? Satans seeds and doctrines. And that is exactly what Jezebel did in the old testament. When Jesus uses this name to explain the whole situation. You get the picture immediately.
Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. Mat 13:24,25
Jezebel from the Old Testament?
But how can we be sure it pictures Jezebel from the Old Testament. Lets see some other names in Revelation. For example Babylon. Is it a system or a city or a literal woman or what? Is it possible that this is part of satans army and it operates in several ways?
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication. Rev 14:8
Interesting: because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
So this so called woman, called city Babylon, also did fornicate. Were they all literally fornicating in Revelation?
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God. Jac 4:4
When we love the world/things of this world and adore other things in our heart than God Ez 14:3 we are adulterers. And when we are enemies of God, God is not our Father....but the devil is. Says Jesus:
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. Joh 8:44
More from Revelation 2:
Ephesus: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars: Rev 2:2
Smyrna:I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Rev 2:9
Pergamos:But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth. Rev2:14-16
Thyatira Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
The first churches in Revelation all have a type of religious spirit working in their midst is my conclusion. I am not surprised, satan appears as an angel of light. Or would anyone say satan does only appear as an angel of light outside church? Of course satan counterfeits the Holy Spirit.
But He (Jesus) turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Mat 16:23
When Jesus Himself is setting pictures here with Old Testament type of figures and also groups types/doctrines. Calls them by those names. I see no problem doing it too.
Not literal Balaam but people acting LIKE him.
Not literal Jews but people LIKE them.
Not literal apostles but people LIKE them.
Literal Jezebel? I don't think so... People LIKE her.
So imagine....what type was she? Manipulating, rebellious, lying, hating Gods true works and Gods true leaders, scaring them. She hated the truth, she only wanted her version of it.
Spirits use people by seducing them into wrong thinking.
My conclusion is that spirits do this through using people. All works of the darkness are spiritual, spiritual darkness.
Jezebel wanted to kill Elijah.
Herod wanted to kill baby Jesus.
Mohammed wanted to kill the Jews.
Hitler wanted to kill the Jews.
A false prophet wants to 'kill' the real ones.
A false apostle breaks down the work of the real ones.
This is a battle not against people (flesh and blood) but against spirits (fallen angels).
Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words. But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me;
and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Dan 10:12,13
and I remained there with the kings of Persia. Dan 10:12,13
there is no new thing under the sun Ecll 1:9
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.Ef 5:11
Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not
against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. Ef 6:11,12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.Hebr4:12
Wake up!
All persons from the Old testament are all gone. Babylon is destroyed. Balaam is not alive but both Peter and Jesus call him in the New Testament (2 Pet 2:13-18). We don't have literal Nicolaitans in churches. But all those spirits and entities from the past behind it are still here. That is what Jesus (and Peter) warns the church for. Wake up, be sober because satan is going around roaring like a lion. Satan will use everything he can even our own fleshly desires and thoughts, also when we read the bible.
Are there people acting like Jezebel and Achab because spirits use the same tactics? Yes for sure. And you learn discern those spiritual tactics by reading about Jezebel and Achab. Even Elijah would run for Jezebel - after he had prayed for fire on the Karmel! Lets not fool ourselves we would act better in the new testament than Elijah - have open eyes. This is not only about power woman, than Elijah would not have been so scared....read it.
Don't get tricked by just the word "prophet", not all people/false spirits in church use this word. Some just say "God showed me". Some not even say that but use some "church language" or "doctrins from internet". Take on the weaponry of God. Use your sword the Bible and test the spirits if they are of God.
You still haven't shown us a 'Jezebel spirit' in either Old or New Testament scriptures. Jezebel is in there. We can infer that as a human being she had a spirit like we all do. That's about it.
Combine them together and you have an environment where women are allowed to exercise authority over men, and where people claim to be prophetesses/prophets.[/QUOTE]
Combine them together and you have an environment where women are allowed to exercise authority over men, and where people claim to be prophetesses/prophets.[/QUOTE]
1
[/QUOTE]
Based on the reply I just gave you, I think you're terribly misunderstanding the points I'm making.
I'm not going to untangle all these tangled balls of yarn you've tossed my way.
Reread the entire thread and you'll see what I'm gettin at.
Basically you seem to be misunderstanding what I say.
Then you toss this tangled ball of yarn my way.....asking why i meant such and such.
Then I have to untangle it, and ahhh!!!
Thing is I didn't mean the such and such that you thought I meant.
Based on the reply I just gave you, I think you're terribly misunderstanding the points I'm making.
I'm not going to untangle all these tangled balls of yarn you've tossed my way.
Reread the entire thread and you'll see what I'm gettin at.
Basically you seem to be misunderstanding what I say.
Then you toss this tangled ball of yarn my way.....asking why i meant such and such.
Then I have to untangle it, and ahhh!!!
Thing is I didn't mean the such and such that you thought I meant.
Last edited:
U
I have yet to meet anybody anywhere that didn't at some point in their life try to manipulate a situation or relationship via one or more of the following methods. Everyone of us has at one time or another tried some form of manipulation to get their/our own way. It's a human (fleshly) trait that's born of our selfish and self-serving nature folks. Anybody that would deny this is only fooling themselves ... and is not speaking the truth.
1) The Sulking Method
2) The I'm Ignoring You Method
3) The Arguing Method
4) The Seduction Method
5) The I'll Buy You Anything You Want Method
6) The I'm In A Position Of Authority Method (most often abused by men IMO)
7) The Belittling Method
8) The Threatening Method
9) The Lying Method
10) The Withholding Affection Method
And many many more, I'm certain. So feel free to add your own to this list
My point is this. Every one of us has exhibited the "jezebel spirit" at some point in our lives if we have tried to control or manipulate a situation or relationship through any form of selfish means. All not guilty, say "I" ? I'll look for your posts.
1) The Sulking Method
2) The I'm Ignoring You Method
3) The Arguing Method
4) The Seduction Method
5) The I'll Buy You Anything You Want Method
6) The I'm In A Position Of Authority Method (most often abused by men IMO)
7) The Belittling Method
8) The Threatening Method
9) The Lying Method
10) The Withholding Affection Method
And many many more, I'm certain. So feel free to add your own to this list
My point is this. Every one of us has exhibited the "jezebel spirit" at some point in our lives if we have tried to control or manipulate a situation or relationship through any form of selfish means. All not guilty, say "I" ? I'll look for your posts.