The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

know1 · Jul 19, 2013

I read the whole thing all right. Like I said earlier, I don't always follow or understand what you are saying. It's like I have to piece it together because it's written in broken sentences. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just stating the way I see it.
I can relate to the part about not getting healed every time. I know I have missed it many times. Just small stuff though.

know1 · Jul 19, 2013

homwardbound said:

At this point, I would have to say, better than yours. To date, I am not suffering from any medical condition, such as yourself.
My heart however, condemns me if I do something wrong. I can't function until I get it straight with God.

know1 · Jul 19, 2013

I put this back up here because even though I know there are many people that don't agree with what is written below, I have noticed that no one touched it, and I was wondering why? If you think I've missed it, then, where and why? But if you can't see where I have twisted scripture, then why are you holding to the way you believe if it doesn't line up with what I have presented below? This is basically, just an outline of what these verses are saying but there are many more just like it. How can God get the truth to us, if we are always rejecting it. We can't build our doctrine on just a few sketchy verses and ignore the rest just because it doesn't fit. Everything must tie in together, or we have it wrong. I don't like admitting when I miss it, but when I see that I do or if I simply don't know, I'll change what I believe or say that I don't know if I don't. Shouldn't we all care more about what the truth is and follow that, than to stick with what our churches teach, just because...?
I realize this is a bit bold and forward but, if anyone can show me scripturallly, where I missed it, I would appreciate it being pointed out to me. I am a simple man, though my wife thinks differently, and this, as well as many other verses in the bible, just says that God wants to give us our heart's desires, when we do what He said to do in His word, He always does His part, without fail. It doesn't say how long it will take for it to manifest in the natural, but all I see is that ALL the promises of God, under the new covenant, are yeah and amen. I don't see it written anywhere in the new testament where God said, 'no' to one of His children, except to the disobedient. And God did not tell Paul that He wouldn't remove the messenger of the devil. You can't have God saying, ask and it WILL be given you, then turn and say, sorry that doesn't apply to you or your situation because you or your situation is special, and I need to teach you something. Like my wife says, haven't you learned yet?

Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, Peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

just-me · Jul 19, 2013

know1 said:

Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, Peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

What you say is true. It's all scripture, but may I add to the truth you present with some more scripture?

John 14:13-14 (KJV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.

1 John 5:14-15 (KJV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

His name is a definition of His character, and His will. We can't expect anything from Him if it is not His will.

James 4:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

zone · Jul 19, 2013

know1 said:

I put this back up here because even though I know there are many people that don't agree with what is written below, I have noticed that no one touched it, and I was wondering why? If you think I've missed it, then, where and why? But if you can't see where I have twisted scripture, then why are you holding to the way you believe if it doesn't line up with what I have presented below? This is basically, just an outline of what these verses are saying but there are many more just like it. How can God get the truth to us, if we are always rejecting it. We can't build our doctrine on just a few sketchy verses and ignore the rest just because it doesn't fit. Everything must tie in together, or we have it wrong. I don't like admitting when I miss it, but when I see that I do or if I simply don't know, I'll change what I believe or say that I don't know if I don't. Shouldn't we all care more about what the truth is and follow that, than to stick with what our churches teach, just because...?
I realize this is a bit bold and forward but, if anyone can show me scripturallly, where I missed it, I would appreciate it being pointed out to me. I am a simple man, though my wife thinks differently, and this, as well as many other verses in the bible, just says that God wants to give us our heart's desires, when we do what He said to do in His word, He always does His part, without fail. It doesn't say how long it will take for it to manifest in the natural, but all I see is that ALL the promises of God, under the new covenant, are yeah and amen. I don't see it written anywhere in the new testament where God said, 'no' to one of His children, except to the disobedient. And God did not tell Paul that He wouldn't remove the messenger of the devil. You can't have God saying, ask and it WILL be given you, then turn and say, sorry that doesn't apply to you or your situation because you or your situation is special, and I need to teach you something. Like my wife says, haven't you learned yet?

Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, Peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

well....kinda.
the fig tree was apostate national israel. so was that mountain.
He was preparing them for overwhelming persecution.
He told them (THEM THEN...right there) that whatever they needed in their mission would be granted.

k...

Apostol2013 · Jul 20, 2013

the dilemma we are having is first we must look outside the box there is the noah covenant there is the abrahamic covenant there is the moses covenant thus the law of moses , that was the law that is implemented to thew jews due to their disobedience i make this statement clear we all have a two dimentional site viewpoint to these things concerning scriptures but we must study to show ourselves aproved .. that is scriptural now in the begining the jews were brought out of egypt and were very unruly they refused to hearken and as a result of their disobedience the laws were set (jer 7:22-23) (1timothy!:9)now lets look at the law of righteousness jesus christ (psalms 45:6-7) not a law after carnal precepts but of an everlasting lifepromise (hebrews 7:16)now the works of the law of righteousness is the law of righteousness of the holy spirit for this jesus of nazaereth our messiah our beloved came to testify . now back to the israelites and the law of moses now its apparent the israelites came out unrully not knowing how to behave or act according not only carried out the customs of egypt but bad manners in even a wicked way lets look at the ten commandments thou shalt have no other gods before me : thou shalt make no graven images the sraelites made a golden calf and sacrificed and worshiped it as a warped form of worship broke two commandments thou shalt not take the lord"s name in vain . they constantly murmured and spoke against God how they lacked either hungry or whatever their strife was the sabath day was established for a day to be just for man and God to draw closer and know more their God build a relationship us said man was not made ffor the sabath but the sabath was made for man mark2:27 now adultery killing stealing and lying falsely against someone maybe to not take responsibilty or whatever the cause and last not coveting thy neighbors belonging , it is apparent theere was stealing murder fornicating stealing from one another wich brought on the ten commandments even the levitical law was brought on from unrullingness in the form of a lack of preception of righteousness and cleanliness in all levels and many of those laws were good as harsh as it sounded it was for the greater good for israel as a nation to operate later contact me and i will explain the ups and downs of the law but the focus now is the law of jesus christ the everlasting covenant came to testify of the spirit conceived of the spirit came to baptize of the spirit (john 4)and poured out the spirit as a result of his glorious sacrifice for all believers to receive at no charge but the works of the spirit are not as the flesh they are clearly set on righteousness for ighteousness is the law of the holy spirit kingdom of heaven (psalms 45:6-7) (galatians 5 )we do have works we must carry they are the righteousness of the spirit of God mathew5:20) (mathew3:3 and3:8and 7:17-23)and the works of the spirit is But the fruit of the spirit is love ioy, peace, long suffering, gentlenesse, goodnesse, faith
Meekenesse, temperance: against such there is no law. now it is not that dificult but our Lord came to fullfill the law (magnify ) and make it honourable isaiah 42:21 i hope this helps email me for more questions

homwardbound · Jul 20, 2013

know1 said:

so might it be that you are doing better with flesh than me and I might be better with Spirit than you, and I am not saying this arrogantly.
You see it better for me to be well with my soul over flesh.
Of coarse I would like both, yet if have a choice, better for me to well with my Soul, and alive to God in the Spirit of God over self.

homwardbound · Jul 20, 2013

know1 said:

thank You, and I see that there is a purpose in all things whether it appears good or bad

homwardbound · Jul 20, 2013

know1 said:

I put this back up here because even though I know there are many people that don't agree with what is written below, I have noticed that no one touched it, and I was wondering why? If you think I've missed it, then, where and why? But if you can't see where I have twisted scripture, then why are you holding to the way you believe if it doesn't line up with what I have presented below? This is basically, just an outline of what these verses are saying but there are many more just like it. How can God get the truth to us, if we are always rejecting it. We can't build our doctrine on just a few sketchy verses and ignore the rest just because it doesn't fit. Everything must tie in together, or we have it wrong. I don't like admitting when I miss it, but when I see that I do or if I simply don't know, I'll change what I believe or say that I don't know if I don't. Shouldn't we all care more about what the truth is and follow that, than to stick with what our churches teach, just because...?
I realize this is a bit bold and forward but, if anyone can show me scripturallly, where I missed it, I would appreciate it being pointed out to me. I am a simple man, though my wife thinks differently, and this, as well as many other verses in the bible, just says that God wants to give us our heart's desires, when we do what He said to do in His word, He always does His part, without fail. It doesn't say how long it will take for it to manifest in the natural, but all I see is that ALL the promises of God, under the new covenant, are yeah and amen. I don't see it written anywhere in the new testament where God said, 'no' to one of His children, except to the disobedient. And God did not tell Paul that He wouldn't remove the messenger of the devil. You can't have God saying, ask and it WILL be given you, then turn and say, sorry that doesn't apply to you or your situation because you or your situation is special, and I need to teach you something. Like my wife says, haven't you learned yet?

Jesus cursed the fig tree the day before, Peter mentions it to Him, and Jesus tells Peter how He did it or what is required to do the same thing He did as well as anything else.
Mar 11:20 And in the morning, as they passed by, they saw the fig tree dried up from the roots.
Mar 11:21 And Peter calling to remembrance saith unto him, Master, behold, the fig tree which thou cursedst is withered away.
Mar 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them,
Have faith in God. [or have the faith of God, or have God's faith]
Meaning, this is how you use God's faith. And He proceeds to tell them how to use the faith of God.]

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, [verily means that it is a true statement (in verses 23 and 24) in and of itself, and that it doesn't need help from other verses to make it the whole truth or council of God.]

That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, [whosoever meaning, who ever has the faith of God in them.
shall say means, to boldly speak to or command verbally, as Jesus did the fig tree or with Lazarus at the tomb. the mountain can be anything, it is symbolic of something big and impossible to do]

and shall not doubt in his heart, [that means you have to know it will happen, not being double minded or wondering if it is God's will, being confident and sure.]

but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; [another way of saying, not doubting in your heart what you have just said or commanded will happen or come to pass, but believing. If you really and truly believe something, you will act on it.]

he shall have whatsoever he saith. [you will have the thing you just said, or the thing you just commanded to be done will be done for you. Again, whatsoever means, what ever or anything or everything. And saith is, a spoken command or what you said verbally.]

Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, [this is in conjunction with the previous verse, so it is therefore the truth]

What things soever ye desire, [simply put, what ever you desire or want, or what ever thing you really want]

when ye pray, [i see this to be more on the asking side but it could be on the commanding side as well.]

believe that ye receive them, [that is, believe you have already received the thing you just asked for, or believe that it is already done or given to you. Mat_13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath. this verse is saying the same thing]

and ye shall have them. [and it's yours or you will have it in the natural world or in this life.]

Mar 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

Did I distort, twist, add to, or take anything away from the words or the meaning of the above verses?

Here is something to consider, what is it that you most desire, want? I am talking bottom line?
And one might say a great paying Job, another a great supportive wife, and on and on one goes to what they want.
Now hear this the Spiritual warfare at hand gives you the thought that you can have whatever you want here now, but when you die physically you have to give up what you want the most.
So you decide what it is you want the most, and decide you can live without that one thing you desire the most, not ever seeing truthfully what you want the most

Does anyone know what they want the most?

Kerry · Jul 20, 2013

Man, im am so tired of this junk. If you ant law then follow it if you can and you can't. That bacon is crying out to you. Is that what you will say when you stand before Him. What will you say. Lord I went to church on Saturday when erry body else went on Sunday. Or maybe I helped my neighbor when he was in need. CRy out and say Lord I cut the grass at the church for 15 years. Or Lord I have been so good I Have not drank nor done drugs when the people around you have done all of those things. When will we realise that are only hope is Jesus Christ and Him crucified and there is nothing we can do accept say thank you. Keep what you want it means nothing.

just-me · Jul 20, 2013

Kerry said:

compare these scriptures and you will see a relationship between the law and Christ Jesus.

Deuteronomy 6:1-6 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:

Luke 10:26-29 (KJV)
[SUP]26 [/SUP]He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

Kerry · Jul 20, 2013

What does law have to do with liberty. You either trust in law or you trust in Christ there is no in between.

just-me · Jul 20, 2013

Kerry said:

James 1:23-25 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP]For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
James 2:10-13 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

Kerry · Jul 20, 2013

Keep reading brother. Is there any leg you can stand on. What shall we boast in. What will the father accept. Our works or His work.

just-me · Jul 20, 2013

Kerry said:

I detect an adamant hatred. Is it toward me, or is it something else? Would you like to start an argument?

Psalm 119:97 (KJV)
[SUP]97 [/SUP]O how love I thy law! it is my meditation all the day.

Was David without faith because he loved God's law?

Kerry · Jul 20, 2013

It is not directed towards you at all. It is directed to those that demean the work of the cross and supplant it with law. The Cross is God's ultimate sacrifice and if we say Lord I have kept law. What would you say.

just-me · Jul 20, 2013

Brother Kerry, please go read post #207 in the thread called "is the Mosaic Law beneficial for those who have faith" and read it to see if you find Christ Jesus there. I posted that following your comment in that thread. I do hope you read it and then talk with me about what you see. Thank you. May our Lord Jesus Christ bless you in wisdom and understanding.

homwardbound · Jul 21, 2013

justme, no matter which way you slice, dice or cube it as you have been doing this.
Law and Grace does not mix, just as oil and water does not mix. When all is stilled, settled down the mix of the two separate and while was all excited being shaken has an appearance of being able to mix
Under Law under a curse because of our unredeemed flesh
Galatians 3:10 [ The Law Brings a Curse ] For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

A believer is either under Law a curse, or Grace from God's finished work at the cross of Son Jesus Christ, via the resurrection and without the resurrection we are to be pitied of all people, we would thus be still then in our sins and have to depend on Law
[h=3]1 Corinthians 15:12-20[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]The Risen Christ, Our Hope[/h][SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if Christ is preached that He has been raised from the dead, how do some among you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? [SUP]13 [/SUP]But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ is not risen. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And if Christ is not risen, then our preaching is empty and your faith is also empty. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Yes, and we are found false witnesses of God, because we have testified of God that He raised up Christ, whom He did not raise up—if in fact the dead do not rise. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins! [SUP]18 [/SUP]Then also those who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men the most pitiable.
[h=3]The Last Enemy Destroyed[/h][SUP]20 [/SUP]But now Christ is risen from the dead, and has become the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.

Mammachickadee · Jul 21, 2013

know1 said:

"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy He saved us", and "All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." These passages demonstrate that any works counted as righteous come after a person is made righteous, justified, and sanctified through salvation. Any works, no matter how good, that come before salvation are counted as sin because they are done in the flesh and not for God.

just-me · Jul 21, 2013

homwardbound said:

To say grace and the law don't mix is an oxymoron of sorts, for Jesus is not separated from God. It's like saying, 'rejection through faith'. By me saying the Mosaic Law is relevant and substance to consume is NOT denying the substance of faith. If in your opinion that puts me under the curse of the law and prohibits me from salvation, that is your prerogative. So be it - I will live with the accusation. If Jesus Christ did not come to destroy the law, why on God's green earth, would we want to do it? The pharisees did a real good job of skewing, distorting, misinterpreting, and rewriting the law. By denouncing the Mosaic Law as Christians, are we not doing the same?

John 5:44-47 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?
[SUP]45 [/SUP]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

The works of the law of righteousness vs works by faith to justification

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