Is The Mosaic Law Beneficial For Those Who Have Faith?

[just-me]

okay. but the gentiles never had moses.:

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 9:30
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

We do now. I believe the Bereans were Gentiles and didn't have the New Testament to confirm what they heard from Paul to be true.
Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

"Berea lies within the ancient region of Macedonia. Scripture confirms that a Jewish community—large enough to have built a synagogue—lived within the city, even though it was within a Gentile nation." Taken from: The Berean Example

 

[unclefester]

We do now. I believe the Bereans were Gentiles and didn't have the New Testament to confirm what they heard from Paul to be true.
Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

"Berea lies within the ancient region of Macedonia. Scripture confirms that a Jewish community—large enough to have built a synagogue—lived within the city, even though it was within a Gentile nation." Taken from: The Berean Example

Then you are in disagreement with the article you posted. These few excerpts taken from it :

The Bereans searched the Scriptures to see if what they were being taught was correct. We need to remember that the only Scripture available to them was the Old Testament. The things that Paul and Silas taught them were regarding Jesus Christ and the New Covenant, mentioned in the Old Testament. Most of these people were of Jewish heritage and knew of the Old Testament promises of a Messiah.How exactly did they search the Scriptures and prove this "new" information? Searchedcomes from the Greek word anakrino, which translates as "properly, to scrutinize, i.e. (by implication) investigate, interrogate, determine." The King James Version translates the word variously as "ask, question, discern, examine, judge, search."This does not mean that the Bereans constantly questioned the Scriptures to prove or disprove what they were learning. However, they had access to the Old Testament, the Bible of their time. They could examine the words Paul and Silas spoke and determine if they were indeed in line with the Old Testament teaching. They could also observe the manner that these men conducted their lives. How these men taught the Word of God and the proofs they gave were quite relevant to the Bereans.Does this mean that they had to disprove or reprove things such as the Sabbath or the Holy Days, which they knew to be of God? Absolutely not! But it clearly indicates that they were not going to let old thoughts, ideas or ways easily fall by the wayside, nor would they close the door on any truth that might come to them through revelation or by teaching. It also made them aware of the need to establish and re-establish the truth of God among them on an on-going fashion.As a small Jewish community among the Gentiles, they probably needed the added security of what they were learning and living to be a bulwark against the corrupt world around them. They kept close to God's Word, scrutinizing it for every bit of help it could give them to remain true to God's way amidst a pagan culture. Each of us should readily relate to this as we strive to survive the corruption of this world and Satan's ploys.In addition, the Bereans studied God's Word on a daily basis. Why is this important? When we see instances of contact with God in the Bible, it often has a daily application. Why does God require the Israelites to collect manna each day (except on the Sabbath, for which they prepared by collecting a double portion on Friday), except to remind them of His constant providence? Why does Christ leave us the example of the "modelprayer," in which we are to thank God for our physical and spiritual food each day? This daily spiritual exercise had to help the Bereans to feed on, dwell on, delight in and think upon what was true, lovely, praiseworthy, and excellent rather than the negativity that their world often embraced. Their lives and minds were continually on the things and ways of God.​

Personal Examples

Luke, the author of Acts, specifically notes that "non-Jews" or Gentiles came to believe in the same truths. It may be that these Gentiles converted through the personal examples of Paul, Silas, Timothy and the early converts among the Jewish Bereans. Luke labels these Gentiles as "prominent" or honorable men and women. They may have been wealthy and well-respected members of the community, people who had all the creature comforts they might need.​

 

[zone]

We do now. I believe the Bereans were Gentiles and didn't have the New Testament to confirm what they heard from Paul to be true.
Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

"Berea lies within the ancient region of Macedonia. Scripture confirms that a Jewish community—large enough to have built a synagogue—lived within the city, even though it was within a Gentile nation." Taken from: The Berean Example

great. i think i asked you once if you think we (most Christians who DO read the Bible) just go ...eh...OT - it`s useless.
or do you realize we read it.

you missed the point about the gentiles:

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 9:30
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

paul was speaking to those who knew the Law btw

 

[unclefester]

okay. but the gentiles never had moses.:

Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.

Romans 9:30
What then shall we say? That the Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have obtained it, a righteousness that is by faith;

you missed the point about the gentiles:

paul was speaking to those who knew the Law btw

Your point was crystal clear. And I don't believe it was missed at all. Just ignored.

 

[WomanLovesTX]

This good debate always stems from how we each understand Paul's teachings. For me, it is settled that Paul was not teaching the Gentiles to not be under the law, but only under grace, but he is upholding that the law of God is to be upheld until......

Act 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
Act 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

This is how I understand the story here in Acts. Paul was being falsely accused of telling the Gentiles they did not have to follow the law. Paul did the Nazarene oath to prove by the law that he was not teaching the Gentiles not to follow the law of Moses. Again, he was being falsely accused. Seems that is the same thing today, Christians are still saying he taught the Gentiles against the law.

This goes against other places in scriptures that show Paul upheld the Law of God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

We are to REMEMBER:

ALL (not some) scripture is given by inspiration of God

ALL (not some) scripture is profitable for doctrine

ALL (not some) scripture is for rebuking and correction

ALL (not some) scripture is for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Therefore, Paul was not teaching against the Law of God but against commandments and doctrines of men. The Circumcision Party demanded Galatians to be circumcised a certain way for justification to gain salvation.We are to not be circumcised for salvation, but as a response to our salvation. There is a difference between those motives, and that is what Paul was trying to teach. Circumcision for justification through God’s Law profits us nothing. We can only receive salvation through the finished work on the cross (Gal 5:2). If we were to try to achieve salvation by circumcision, then we must keep the whole Law perfectly as well (Gal 5:3). This is not possible, which is why we need grace (Gal5:4), through faith (Gal 5:5). However, do we make void God’s Law because of faith? God forbid!
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Ro 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God after the inward man:
Ro 7:23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the "law of sin" which is in my members.

Y'shua (Jesus) even said:

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I do not come to destroy, but to fulfill (with meaning).

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all (law and prophets) be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments , and shall teach men so, heshall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Y'shua (Jesus) stated that not one of God’s commandments was to be “abolished” or “put an end to” until all of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled and Heaven and earth pass away.

Heaven and earth passing away and being made new is the last prophetic event foretold in scripture.

Isaiah 65:17 "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

Please note that this event has clearly not yet happened.

Y'shua (Jesus) states that all of God’s Law will exist at LEAST UNTIL the day that the Lord states:

Revelation 21:5-6 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Christ’s work on the cross for our salvation is finished (John 19:30), but the Lord is not yet finished with what has been said in all
of His Law and Prophets until He says, “It is done.” This statement is signaled by the new Heaven and New Earth.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The law of Moses can also be an encouragement as it can tell you what you are doing right.

It also can be a hinderance,

1. as it will not show you every sin, and we may think we are good people when we are not.
2. It can make you feel so ashamed and worthless without hope because you can;t do it (I have seen this in alot of people)
3. It can give you a false sense of duty, as you are doing it, and think you are doing Gods will, when God wants you to do all this other stuff, but your so busy doing the law you can;t see where God is leading you.
4. It can give you a false sense of pride

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

We are to not be circumcised for salvation, but as a response to our salvation.

Are you actually teaching that believers should be circumcised?

 

[just-me]

Post from unclefester to zone:

Your point was crystal clear. And I don't believe it was missed at all. Just ignored.

We do now. I believe the Bereans were Gentiles and didn't have the New Testament to confirm what they heard from Paul to be true.
Acts 17:10-11 (KJV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

"Berea lies within the ancient region of Macedonia. Scripture confirms that a Jewish community—large enough to have built a synagogue—lived within the city, even though it was within a Gentile nation." Taken from: The Berean Example

Then you are in disagreement with the article you posted. These few excerpts taken from it :
Personal Examples
Luke, the author of Acts, specifically notes that "non-Jews" or Gentiles came to believe in the same truths. It may be that these Gentiles converted through the personal examples of Paul, Silas, Timothy and the early converts among the Jewish Bereans. Luke labels these Gentiles as "prominent" or honorable men and women. They may have been wealthy and well-respected members of the community, people who had all the creature comforts they might need.

How can I be in disagreement with the article I presented? It clearly states they (gentiles) were among the Jews. I'm sure the Jews had the Torah. Of course I could be facetious and say; I’m sure that the converted Jews hid the writings from the Gentiles that were in Berea. But no one could hardly believe that remark.

Let me take one sentence from the article that I supposedly disagree with. “Luke labels these Gentiles as "prominent" or honorable men and women.”

So I also present to you 2 questions. How did the wise men know about Messiah? And were the Magi Jews or Gentile?

Matthew 2:1-7 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judaea in the days of Herod the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when he had gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be born.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And they said unto him, In Bethlehem of Judaea: for thus it is written by the prophet,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And thou Bethlehem, in the land of Juda, art not the least among the princes of Juda: for out of thee shall come a Governor, that shall rule my people Israel.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then Herod, when he had privily called the wise men, enquired of them diligently what time the star appeared.

Micah 5:2 (KJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP]But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

And Jesus confirms that the writings of Moses told about Him.

John 5:46 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.

 

[homwardbound]

I don't need the law of Moses to tell me what I am. The spirit witnesses loud and clear that I am perverse and unable to love as I should...

Therefore we turn to our only sufficiency Christ Jesus, namely the resurrection after being dead with Christ at the death of Christ in order to be presented
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—
God the father raises us from the dead self, that we agreed to die to, and we are born again by God, now in the Spirit not the flesh

 

[homwardbound]

The law of Moses can also be an encouragement as it can tell you what you are doing right.

And when this happens, being of self trying to obey, pride and prejudice enter there into, a person better than others attitude.
And is why our only sufficiency is Christ, our Savior unto Father, no one gets to Father except through Christ
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

 

[just-me]

Nehemiah 13:1-3 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]On that day they read in the book of Moses in the audience of the people; and therein was found written, that the Ammonite and the Moabite should not come into the congregation of God for ever;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Because they met not the children of Israel with bread and with water, but hired Balaam against them, that he should curse them: howbeit our God turned the curse into a blessing.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Now it came to pass, when they had heard the law, that they separated from Israel all the mixed multitude.

The Law was read in the company of everyone, including gentiles. When it was discovered that there should be separation of the Moabites and Ammonites, they acted upon what was written. So all people there heard it, not just the Isaelites.

Daniel 6:4-5 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then the presidents and princes sought to find occasion against Daniel concerning the kingdom; but they could find none occasion nor fault; forasmuch as he was faithful, neither was there any error or fault found in him.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Then said these men, We shall not find any occasion against this Daniel, except we find it against him concerning the law of his God.

The princes spoken of here could find no flaw in Daniel EXCEPT that he kept the law of his God, so obviously, they knew at least some of the law, if not all of it.

Isaiah 42:5-9 (KJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
[SUP]6 [/SUP]I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;
[SUP]7 [/SUP]To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Behold, the former things are come to pass, and new things do I declare: before they spring forth I tell you of them.

Isaiah 49:6 (KJV)
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.

The law was a part of daily life for Israel – everything they did in a day had foundation in the law, so anyone looking at them as the “light to the Gentiles” would not be able to avoid seeing God’s law in action.
Acts was not recorded in writing until AD60 Gentiles received publication of the Word of God before Acts was written.

Acts 13:44-49 (KJV)
[SUP]44 [/SUP]And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
[SUP]45 [/SUP]But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.
[SUP]46 [/SUP]Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.
[SUP]48 [/SUP]And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.
[SUP]49 [/SUP]And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region.

Isaiah’s words repeated in the New Testament – further proof that the entire Bible is God’s Word relevant for 2013 as well when Isaiah wrote, about 700 years before Christ was even born.

The Galatians were Gentiles, which is now located in modern day Turkey. They had adopted vain rituals from the Torah, and Paul was presenting to them the proper aspects and intentions of God concerning the law. Without the law, how could Paul say it was a schoolmaster for the Galatians?

Galatians 3:24-25 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

See this link for further explanation: Galatians proves that we should keep the Torah

 

[just-me]

And when this happens, being of self trying to obey, pride and prejudice enter there into, a person better than others attitude.
And is why our only sufficiency is Christ, our Savior unto Father, no one gets to Father except through Christ
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

So you are saying that encouragement in the Law of Moses causes pride and prejudice to enter in? I would think that in order for pride and prejudice to creep in, a person would not have faith. It wouldn't happen of those of faith, I don't think. Instead of growing in faith, maybe you are saying the the Law of Moses decreases faith. From all I have read from many others, and have heard from many others, maybe that's what many others really believe. I personally don't think that was God's intention from the very beginning. GBU brother

 

[homwardbound]

This good debate always stems from how we each understand Paul's teachings. For me, it is settled that Paul was not teaching the Gentiles to not be under the law, but only under grace, but he is upholding that the law of God is to be upheld until......

Act 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly.
Act 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present.
Act 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
Act 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
Act 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.
Act 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
Act 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
Act 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.
Act 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
Act 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.
Act 21:27 And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him,
Act 21:28 Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all men every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

This is how I understand the story here in Acts. Paul was being falsely accused of telling the Gentiles they did not have to follow the law. Paul did the Nazarene oath to prove by the law that he was not teaching the Gentiles not to follow the law of Moses. Again, he was being falsely accused. Seems that is the same thing today, Christians are still saying he taught the Gentiles against the law.

This goes against other places in scriptures that show Paul upheld the Law of God.

Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

We are to REMEMBER:

ALL (not some) scripture is given by inspiration of God

ALL (not some) scripture is profitable for doctrine

ALL (not some) scripture is for rebuking and correction

ALL (not some) scripture is for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Therefore, Paul was not teaching against the Law of God but against commandments and doctrines of men. The Circumcision Party demanded Galatians to be circumcised a certain way for justification to gain salvation.We are to not be circumcised for salvation, but as a response to our salvation. There is a difference between those motives, and that is what Paul was trying to teach. Circumcision for justification through God’s Law profits us nothing. We can only receive salvation through the finished work on the cross (Gal 5:2). If we were to try to achieve salvation by circumcision, then we must keep the whole Law perfectly as well (Gal 5:3). This is not possible, which is why we need grace (Gal5:4), through faith (Gal 5:5). However, do we make void God’s Law because of faith? God forbid!
Ro 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Ro 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Ro 7:22 For I delight in the Law of God after the inward man:
Ro 7:23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the "law of sin" which is in my members.

Y'shua (Jesus) even said:

Mt 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I do not come to destroy, but to fulfill (with meaning).

Mt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all (law and prophets) be fulfilled.

Mt 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments , and shall teach men so, heshall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Y'shua (Jesus) stated that not one of God’s commandments was to be “abolished” or “put an end to” until all of the Law and Prophets are fulfilled and Heaven and earth pass away.

Heaven and earth passing away and being made new is the last prophetic event foretold in scripture.

Isaiah 65:17 "Behold, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind.

Revelation 21:1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.

Please note that this event has clearly not yet happened.

Y'shua (Jesus) states that all of God’s Law will exist at LEAST UNTIL the day that the Lord states:

Revelation 21:5-6 He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!" Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true." He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.

Christ’s work on the cross for our salvation is finished (John 19:30), but the Lord is not yet finished with what has been said in all
of His Law and Prophets until He says, “It is done.” This statement is signaled by the new Heaven and New Earth.

Flesh tries to follow the Law and can't, only God can for only God is good shown to us by the 100% dependency of Christ to Father through the Holy Spirit that abode in him, that Christ listened to, followed the truth of all Law or Laws, which is Love.
He took it all at the cross except the unbelief in his finished work, calling for each of us to go to that cross in spirit and co-crucify our own selfish flesh to it with Christ, asking Father to show us this, and then be raised back to life in the resurrected Christ in Spirit of God and we thus do as God leads, not as Law.
Law's purpose to show us our need for God that we are not perfect and need God for perfection
and this is offered to us by putting down self effort in trying to obey law because:
[h=3]Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—

Yes about upholding the Law, I uphold it in that it showed me my inability to obey God by it, seeing how that all flesh is weak and when holy flows through it I fail as all that going by the Mosaic Law are not perfect as those that ware in Christ arew considered perfect by God through Christ, and only from Christ this attained, never from self. The believers are no more than partakers in this miraculous gift of life from God to us all that believe!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Colossians 1:22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight—


[/h]

 

[homwardbound]

It also can be a hinderance,

1. as it will not show you every sin, and we may think we are good people when we are not.
2. It can make you feel so ashamed and worthless without hope because you can;t do it (I have seen this in alot of people)
3. It can give you a false sense of duty, as you are doing it, and think you are doing Gods will, when God wants you to do all this other stuff, but your so busy doing the law you can;t see where God is leading you.
4. It can give you a false sense of pride

Apart from the Law there is no punishment of sin. Under Law trying to flow through flesh and blood sin is revived and death occurs.
Now if one gets good at obeying the Law then self righteousness creeps in, and thinks themselves not condemned acting as if they are a Betty better than you, at least thinking it
[h=3]Luke 18:11-14[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other men—extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. [SUP]12 [/SUP]I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.’ [SUP]13 [/SUP]And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’
[SUP]14 [/SUP]
I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”

Being a good boy, sets one up for self-righteousness period as it did Saul who became Paul

[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]All for Christ[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[SUP][a][/SUP] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.


Saul did the Law better than anyone of us and he counted as Garbage a self righteousness, that produced in his flesh. as it goes in all flesh producing a self-righteousness that is incredibly deceiving
therefore the war is between man's flesh, and God's Spirit
And God to this day cannot be worshipped in the flesh, only in our born again Spirit can one serve God

1. John 4:23
   But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
   
2. John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
   
3. John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
   
4. John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[homwardbound]

So you are saying that encouragement in the Law of Moses causes pride and prejudice to enter in? I would think that in order for pride and prejudice to creep in, a person would not have faith. It wouldn't happen of those of faith, I don't think. Instead of growing in faith, maybe you are saying the the Law of Moses decreases faith. From all I have read from many others, and have heard from many others, maybe that's what many others really believe. I personally don't think that was God's intention from the very beginning. GBU brother

You turned what I said about pride and prejudice entering into as if it was the Law that caused this, when it is not the law it is the flesh that is weak and whenever the perfect law of Moses enters into the flesh and flesh tries to obey and manages to, flesh becomes proud and boastful. Now if one is belonging to God and gets this way then the 2 Cor 12:7 onward comes into play and we are buffeted to become back to humility.
Now if this does not take place or we refuse to listen to truth then we were not ever of God yet to begin with as Saul was
Do you ignore Phil. 3
[h=3]Philippians 3[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]All for Christ[/h]3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. For me to write the same things to you is not tedious, but for you it is safe.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the mutilation! [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit,[SUP][a][/SUP] rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh, [SUP]4 [/SUP]though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, [SUP]11 [/SUP]if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.
What does Paul deny?

 

[WomanLovesTX]

Are you actually teaching that believers should be circumcised?

Joh 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Was Jesus teaching that the law of Moses had ended? I don't think so. Jesus is our Rabbi....that is the true teacher of all things Jewish and Israelitish (ie Torah, Prophets, and Writings). We are spiritual Israel who have faith in Jesus and have grace poured out on us.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

God writes His Laws on our hearts and puts them into our minds. What Laws you ask? Through the Holy Spirit and the renewing of your mind, that is reading and studying Torah and Prophets and Writings (ie. OT). The Holy Spirit will bring to mind those things you have searched out in the scriptures at just the right moments when they are needed. You have heard garbage in garbage out. The Torah is not garbage but treasures.

Luk 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

Surely, all things Torah is a matter of faith and grace with the aid of the Holy Spirit to guide you. However, if you kick the pricks, that is shut off what little light may come in, you will abide in darkness.

But, Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

How important is the Father to you? How important is the renewed covenant to you? Jesus is the mediator between the old covenant and the new covenant. He is our bridge to entering everlasting life. He is also our teacher, that is of the true religion of spiritual Israelites. Not Paul and the twisted interpretation that the Law is bad and therefore to be avoided. Paul is misunderstood, as I share previously.

To fully answer your question, I am not a teacher to believers who do not obey God's commandments. To those who obey God's commandments, we are iron sharpening iron to each other.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

To fully answer your question, I am not a teacher to believers who do not obey God's commandments. To those who obey God's commandments, we are iron sharpening iron to each other.

You fully avoided answering my question. Do you teach a believer should be circumcised?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How important is the Father to you? How important is the renewed covenant to you? Jesus is the mediator between the old covenant and the new covenant. He is our bridge to entering everlasting life. He is also our teacher, that is of the true religion of spiritual Israelites. Not Paul and the twisted interpretation that the Law is bad and therefore to be avoided. Paul is misunderstood, as I share previously.

There are no such things as the renewed covenant and a mediator between covenants. Jesus is the mediator of the new covenant.

 

[john832]

You fully avoided answering my question. Do you teach a believer should be circumcised?

I do...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I do...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Right, but my question was in regards to physical circumcision.