The Jezebel Spirit

[presidente]

I have yet to meet anybody anywhere that didn't at some point in their life try to manipulate a situation or relationship via one or more of the following methods. Everyone of us has at one time or another tried some form of manipulation to get their/our own way. It's a human (fleshly) trait that's born of our selfish and self-serving nature folks. Anybody that would deny this is only fooling themselves ... and is not speaking the truth.

1) The Sulking Method
2) The I'm Ignoring You Method
3) The Arguing Method
4) The Seduction Method
5) The I'll Buy You Anything You Want Method
6) The I'm In A Position Of Authority Method (most often abused by men IMO)
7) The Belittling Method
8) The Threatening Method
9) The Lying Method
10) The Withholding Affection Method

And many many more, I'm certain. So feel free to add your own to this list

My point is this. Every one of us has exhibited the "jezebel spirit" at some point in our lives if we have tried to control or manipulate a situation or relationship through any form of selfish means. All not guilty, say "I" ? I'll look for your posts.

Jezebel in the Old Testament used number 8 to Elijah. But I don't see the connection with this list and Revelation 2.

 

[presidente]

lol two days ago i was going to point out that -diotrephes- is a better example of the kind of 'control freak' behavior that a lot of people have been calling 'jezebel'...but i never actually got around to posting it...

I hope Diotrophes doesn't turn into a 'Diotrophes spirit'. Why do examples in scripture get called 'spirits' and then people think they are actual principalities?

In some churches, Diotrophes is seen as a type of the monarchical bishop or the senior pastor, who tries to single-handedly exert control, when what we see in scripture is a plural eldership in a church.

 

[homwardbound]

well if i have observed one thing in this thread it is that there is a -huge difference- between how 'jezebel' is defined by those basing their thoughts strictly on scripture in revelation 2 and how she is regarded by those who are getting their notions from other sources such as 'deliverance ministry' testimonies...

specifically the following...

scripturally derived definition according to revelation 2...jezebel...
...claims to be a prophet or exercises the role of a prophet
...teaches and commits sins such as sexual immorality and eating of food sacrificed to idols

definition derived from 'deliverance ministry' testimony...jezebel...
...is basically a control freak
...has an easily manipulated ally or puppet in the church leadership

these are two completely different definitions...it is not surprising that one is based on scripture and the other is not...

stay to the letter and not the Spirit and possibly be deceived, God reveals truth of the scripture, as we from self's do not see for all scripture is Spiritually discerned by God and from God, while man continuously sees things from man's own perspective. unless man agrees to die to self with God, I am speaking of the carnal mind as Paul spoke to the Corinthian Church about their hypocrisy of taking advantage of being forgiven 100% all the time.
They had all sorts of things going on in their Church as in the Brothel above them came down into their place of worship and the women there had shaven heads and got behind the pulpit, and sowed lies, and they fell for it, why not have this or that, rejoice, do what you want, who cares about consideration for their neighbor, take advantage, rejoice, you are forgiven, so why not eat up all the food, drink all the wine, have sex with whomever you choose, who cares you are forgiven.

The above was the worldly mindset of the Corinthians, so Paul wrote 1 Cor. to them to straighten out the misrepresentation of the only one and true God that loved us so much that by Christ we are forgiven 100%. But not for the purpose to take advantage of or be taken advantage of.
You might want to call it and define it down to Jezebel Spirit, yet it goes much deeper in trickery from the enemy of self.

Now in 2 cor. 7, Paul is thankful, because they came to know truth as truth is to be known and forsook being selfish, changed their minds to a Godly sorrow, from the worldly one they had.
All praise and glory to God, Hallelujah for ever and ever. Freed from the bondage of sin by Christ and Christ alone at the death of to give us life in him in the Spirit of him, by sending us the Holy Spirit of promise to live in and eventually through us if we will see and ask for this to be at rest in God.

 

[homwardbound]

One common factor I keep seeing is that JS needs a passive Ahab/leader.


http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-6.html#post1115325


Link--> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118529


Link---> http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/69030-jezebel-spirit-14.html#post1118609

So we have a passive male leader, being subjected to a dominate female.
A woman exercising authority over a man.
That's the Biblical template most point toward.
That's the biblical template for JS in the OT.
Woman exercising authority over man, taking over his leadership.

This must have been happening in the early church because Paul addresses it.




So the OT template for JS is a strong woman ruling her will over a weak/passive male.
In the NT Paul seems to be addressing the same thing when he instructs women not to exercise authority over men in the church and to remain in submission.

So I guess if we're really looking for JS in the church, we need to look for those churches that allow women to have authority over men in the church. Cuz clearly it didn't work out well for Ahab, and Paul tried to nip it too.

So which churches allow women to exercise authority over men?
There you will find your JS.

so in essence what you just said is that there are no women of God if it appears that a woman have control over the man, what a stereo-type this.
For there are true women of God, that are all out for God, not man's tradition. There were women with Paul that were women of God and are to this very day.
Just because something looks like, tastes like, and smells like, does not mean it is real. This is true either way one sees this.
A book can't be judged by it's cover. A book unread is nothing more than a block of paper. And not in just parts is not the whole truth, only as a whole. If one reads it from beginning to end and God reveals truth to us, we see truth in the word from God that God just love us, and warns us of following the ways of this world in it's way to control one another, taking us captive using love our neighbor as ourselves to the enemies benefit, not God's
How many have been taught to lie to another to not to hurt their feelings, using love your neighbor as yourself?
So how many of us do this and think nothing of it?
Hoping for all of us to see truth as truth, not being manipulated anymore as has been done over the centuries?
When you ever do now tell truth, to another as in you don't like a dish they made, and they get offended as many do. That is when you might then say are you mad at me because I tell you the truth?
Doesn't lying to someone else eventually come out and exposure comes to light? What then you have to come up with more lies to cover up the lies. What a tangled web we weave when we first set out to deceive.
If we tell truth from day one, then there are no notes to keep up on, to keep the lie going. Truth never has to defend itself, ever.

 

[homwardbound]

Where does the Bible teach these things about the Jezebel spirit or that there is a spirit of Jezebel?

Could teaching the latest Charismatic teaching about spirits that have no basis in scripture be as much of a distraction from the word as glittering lights and entertainment?

there is a Spirit of error, that does control flesh and God's Spirit of truth
1 John 3:24 [ The Spirit of Truth and the Spirit of Error ] Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

1 John 4:6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

 

[homwardbound]

I have yet to meet anybody anywhere that didn't at some point in their life try to manipulate a situation or relationship via one or more of the following methods. Everyone of us has at one time or another tried some form of manipulation to get their/our own way. It's a human (fleshly) trait that's born of our selfish and self-serving nature folks. Anybody that would deny this is only fooling themselves ... and is not speaking the truth.

1) The Sulking Method
2) The I'm Ignoring You Method
3) The Arguing Method
4) The Seduction Method
5) The I'll Buy You Anything You Want Method
6) The I'm In A Position Of Authority Method (most often abused by men IMO)
7) The Belittling Method
8) The Threatening Method
9) The Lying Method
10) The Withholding Affection Method

And many many more, I'm certain. So feel free to add your own to this list

My point is this. Every one of us has exhibited the "jezebel spirit" at some point in our lives if we have tried to control or manipulate a situation or relationship through any form of selfish means. All not guilty, say "I" ? I'll look for your posts.

Amen unclefester, untangle the web of deceit, in being of and from the flesh that we are to die to and be alive to God in the Spirit of God
Thank you

 

[homwardbound]

Jezebel in the Old Testament used number 8 to Elijah. But I don't see the connection with this list and Revelation 2.

Bottom line the fight to this very day is between Flesh and the Spirit of God. Which one controls you. you have free choice given to you
Galatians 4:29 But, as he who was born according to the flesh then persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 5:16 [ Walking in the Spirit ] I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17
For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish.
Galatians 6:8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
Philippians 3:3
For we are the circumcision, who worship God in the Spirit, rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh,
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.

So God today can only be worshipped in

1. John 4:23
   But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him.
   
2. John 4:24 God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”
   
3. John 14:17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you.
   
4. John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come.

 

[homwardbound]

I hope Diotrophes doesn't turn into a 'Diotrophes spirit'. Why do examples in scripture get called 'spirits' and then people think they are actual principalities?

In some churches, Diotrophes is seen as a type of the monarchical bishop or the senior pastor, who tries to single-handedly exert control, when what we see in scripture is a plural eldership in a church.

is there not a Spirit of error and is not our fight Spiritual, once we decide to dead to self with Christ, thus being alive to God by the resurrected Christ?

 

[brmicke]

This is simplified by Paul in Eph 5. He addresses the core of the "Husband/Wife - Man/Women problem. If women respected Husbands and those Husbands loved their wives the problem would not exist. The problem is women want men to earn respect in their eyes before they obey God. Men want their wives to be lovable before they Obey God and love their wives.

Both Husbands and wives are ignoring their biblical commands.

1. Husbands Love
2, Wives respect

Obedience to these commands is not to be based on the behavior of another person. They are to be obeyed not evaluated based upon another persons behavior.

Respectfully - Brian

 

[brmicke]

Paul does set Men as being responsible for the union of marriage and God does hold Christian Husband's responsible for the union.

Have you ever wondered why Eve was deceived and sinned first but God's word says that sin entered through one man, that being Adam who ate even though He was not deceived?

Why did Adam eat if He was not deceived? Because He wanted to be with His wife, after all God created Her for Him. Just as Christ (out of Love for the Father) wants to be with the Church.

1Ki 21:8 So she wrote letters in Ahab’s name, and sealed them with his seal, and sent the letters unto the elders and to the nobles that were in his city, dwelling with Naboth.

Jezabel usurped the role of Her husband (becoming masculine) and Ahab effectively became feminine in submitting to Her ungodly usurpation.

The proper reaction to a wife's attempts at usurpation is seen in Ester 1:11-22. Remember God divorced the nation of Israel for disobedience in Jer 3:8.

Brian

 

[unclefester]

[video=youtube;iyKLay9soM4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyKLay9soM4[/video]

This video is the best so far.

Jezebel in the Old Testament used number 8 to Elijah. But I don't see the connection with this list and Revelation 2.

It was a response to this video. If you watch it, my post should be self-evident

 

[GreenNnice]

LOL, my struggle is NOT against anyone on c.c., this is known through Scripture, we ALL need to know who we REALLY are up against. And, good news, unless you want to be called a liar, according to the Truth, your enemies are no one on c.c., and, nope, those that think cessationism, continuationism, and, amillenialism, and, pretribbers, and, hell this, hell not that, blah, blah, blah...... Nope, none of ya no enemies of mine, but it sounds like a good movie, huh. Hey, I KNOW, let's call it, 'Enemy Mine.' But, know your enemies are against Jezebel spirits that are of much deeper dimensionalism than the
MERE Chrisitanity of a human mind can EVER hope to fathom, but BE of good CHEER, for YOU, brothers and sisters in Christ, have 'the mind of Christ.'

Finally, my brothers, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. …

NOW, you KNOW the Enemy, yours.

 

[Stephen63]

Adam Clarke's Commentary:

That woman Jezebel—There is an allusion here to the history of Ahab and Jezebel, as given in 2 Kings 9:1-10:36; and although we do not know who this Jezebel was, yet from the allusion we may take it for granted she was a woman of power and influence in Thyatira, who corrupted the true religion, and harassed the followers of God in that city, as Jezebel did in Israel. Instead of that woman Jezebel, την γυναικα Ιεζαβηλ, many excellent MSS., and almost all the ancient versions, read την γυναικα σου Ιεζαβηλ, THY WIFE Jezebel; which intimates, indeed asserts, that this bad woman was the wife of the bishop of the Church, and his criminality in suffering her was therefore the greater. This reading Griesbach has received into the text. She called herself a prophetess, i.e., set up for a teacher; taught the Christians that fornication, and eating things offered to idols, were matters of indifference, and thus they were seduced from the truth. But it is probable that by fornication here is meant idolatry merely, which is often its meaning in the Scriptures. It is too gross to suppose that the wife of the bishop of this Church could teach fornication literally. The messenger or bishop of this Church, probably her husband, suffered this: he had power to have cast her and her party out of the Church, or, as his wife, to have restrained her; but he did not do it, and thus she had every opportunity of seducing the faithful. This is what Christ had against the messenger of this Church.

 

[presidente]

Adam Clarke's Commentary:

That woman Jezebel—There is an allusion here to the history of Ahab and Jezebel, as given in 2 Kings 9:1-10:36; and although we do not know who this Jezebel was, yet from the allusion we may take it for granted she was a woman of power and influence in Thyatira, who corrupted the true religion, and harassed the followers of God in that city, as Jezebel did in Israel. Instead of that woman Jezebel, την γυναικα Ιεζαβηλ, many excellent MSS., and almost all the ancient versions, read την γυναικα σου Ιεζαβηλ, THY WIFE Jezebel; which intimates, indeed asserts, that this bad woman was the wife of the bishop of the Church, and his criminality in suffering her was therefore the greater. This reading Griesbach has received into the text. She called herself a prophetess, i.e., set up for a teacher; taught the Christians that fornication, and eating things offered to idols, were matters of indifference, and thus they were seduced from the truth. But it is probable that by fornication here is meant idolatry merely, which is often its meaning in the Scriptures. It is too gross to suppose that the wife of the bishop of this Church could teach fornication literally. The messenger or bishop of this Church, probably her husband, suffered this: he had power to have cast her and her party out of the Church, or, as his wife, to have restrained her; but he did not do it, and thus she had every opportunity of seducing the faithful. This is what Christ had against the messenger of this Church.

This is obviously mostly his opinion. The commentator assumes that there was a monarchical bishop position in this church, a concept that can't be proven by scripture. The apostles appointed a plurality of bishops in the church. Even a 'thy wife' variant of the verse wouldn't need to refer to the bishop. The letters are addressed to the messenger of the churches, but the contents are directed to the churches themselves.

I wouldn't put teaching people to engage in fornication past anyone who taught the people to engage in idolatry. The events of the first century took place in a different culture centuries removed from the writing of this commentary, and that woman Jezebel's followers would not have shared the same mores and values as the commentator.

 

[danschance]

What do you think of this video? [video=youtube;DpDSE7SetjA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpDSE7SetjA[/video]

 

[GreenNnice]

What do you think of this video? [video=youtube;DpDSE7SetjA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpDSE7SetjA[/video]

Is this person bad, sarah777 ? You say to danchanced that one cannot be with half light and half darkness?

Why is that? What Scripture do you use for that kind of support of that claim?

Is the lady above bad ? She is getting a demon excorcised from her by a man through the power of God, for His glory done, righ, ALWAYS done this way, not of us, it's NOT about us, but we do work that HELPS others, like supernatural things, and, we don't, ultimately, KNOW that person has a demon cast out of them, but God does. We BELIEVE that the person DID have that Demon loosed by how. By faith !

She has a spirit (I don't know if you want to label it 'Jezebel,' or not, makes not diff to me) in her influencing her life. SHE wants to good, just like Paul, remember, Romans 7, doesn't Paul say that He wants to act in the Spirit, but his flesh gets in the way. It's QUITE a battle Paul admits we humans WILL have in this life. It's true, we who are His are spiritual beings, but we STILL can be tempted by The Devil, we still can be possessed by The Devil . It happened in Jesus' time and it happens today; ONE DIFFERENCE is that Jesus' is IN US, He is not actually on Earth in human form like He was in bible time when He was Jesus, the man.

The power of God is sooooo great, sarasara

-----------------

Originally Posted by SarahM777

UMMM The original question was about a BELIEVER BEING possessed by a demon. A false prophet is an UNBELIEVER.

Where in that passage does John tell us to rebuke a demon? John tells us to test so that we can recognize the Spirit of God. John then tells us we have ALREADY overcome them because the ONE WHO IS IN US IS GREATER then he who is in the world. He then goes on to say the world will listen to them because they are of the world,but not once in that passage are we told to rebuke a demon.

Jesus cast out demons. He gives us that authority too, that is from His Father in Heaven, no ? ' you, too, can cast out demons

I don't want to re-hash this with you, because it's just a crazy argument, sarasara--of doctrine--and, why be divisive with each other, we are with the same foundation in Christ, but, I do believe, exactly what I said, and, it's crazy, in MY opinion, that people can dismiss people out in the WORLD that have been prayed over 'in the name of Jesus' and a demon/evil spirit has been loosed from them. Of course, there is NO power in us, it's all His power, working THROUGH us, milady .

So, is that a good thing, you think. When a lady is caught up in sexual sin and she just can't shake it, and, there is a reason why that is a DEMON inside , then , don't you think Jesus can bring GLORY to Himself by our casting out that demon. People actually get excorcised of demons, sarasara, it's true, unless it's just a bunch of crazy people saying that 'I was in a demon-possessed state and someone prayed "in the name of Jesus" over me and I was FREEEED !!! "


Are they lying, sarasara, or, are the 1000s of people who CLAIM this same release or vindication telling the truth
And, anyway, the Lord leads, you believe what you want and I know your faith is in Him, I do not question that, so, don't think I am doing that, I speak in Love to you always,. milady, like I do ALL miladies on c.c.

 

[Stephen63]

What do you think of this video? [video=youtube;DpDSE7SetjA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpDSE7SetjA[/video]

He is a fake.

 

[danschance]

He is a fake.

It might be faked and he could be a fake. On the other hand, he might be on the level.

 

[danschance]

When Christians say that a christian can't possibly have a demon, it sounds overly simplistic to me. They often claim the Holy Spirit takes up all the space under your skin and no demon can move in. Or the claim light and darkness can not cohabitate.

The first argument is pure fantasy and the bible does not say that.

The second uses a verse out of context.

Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? 2Cor. 6:14

The context of this scripture has nothing to do with demon possession. Even more odd is people can in fact and still get "unequally yoked"! So this argument is completely blown out of the water like a cherry bomb strapped to a toy boat tossed into your neighbor's pool.

If darkness can not fellowship with light, then how can the Holy Spirit live inside us sinners? According to the stated argument above, this is also impossible.

The arguments against a Christian being possessed are often shallow, simplistic and/or taking scripture out of context.

 

[GreenNnice]

When Christians say that a christian can't possibly have a demon, it sounds overly simplistic to me. They often claim the Holy Spirit takes up all the space under your skin and no demon can move in. Or the claim light and darkness can not cohabitate.

The first argument is pure fantasy and the bible does not say that.

The second uses a verse out of context.


The context of this scripture has nothing to do with demon possession. Even more odd is people can in fact and still get "unequally yoked"! So this argument is completely blown out of the water like a cherry bomb strapped to a toy boat tossed into your neighbor's pool.

If darkness can not fellowship with light, then how can the Holy Spirit live inside us sinners? According to the stated argument above, this is also impossible.

The arguments against a Christian being possessed are often shallow, simplistic and/or taking scripture out of context.

Indeed, dc