Free will? really?
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It teaches it all over the place.
If you do this, I will do that. If you do not. I will do this.
Etc etc etc.
Unless there is free will. most of the OT law and prophets are meaningless. And that is just the begining. The message of the cross is also meaningless. As is the message of the true love of God.
If you do this, I will do that. If you do not. I will do this.
Etc etc etc.
Unless there is free will. most of the OT law and prophets are meaningless. And that is just the begining. The message of the cross is also meaningless. As is the message of the true love of God.
J
listen carefully... there is no law for the holy spirit because it knows what it has to do that's why there is "free will" But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. anyone who is born again isn't gonna just jump back in the world... it will eat then up in the inside to know that god saved you and you went and did that to him[h=3]Galatians 5:22-23[/h]
We do have the free will to make are on choices just not without consequences.... i assume what your saying is that its not really free will because we are forced to make certain choices if we wanna avoid the consequnces of are actions which is true to an extent there are some choices we might make diffrent if there were no consuqences for are actions but even though we may chwnge are choice it is still are choice to make..
I'm still divided on this subject and lean toward the Calvinist's idea, but I think we somehow still have a will, even though God has the final say so. It could also be that there is a difference in choice and will but I have not tried to separate the difference yet as this subject is over my head at the moment. Here are some verses that I think support free-will. Just a few.
Leviticus 1:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord.
Leviticus 19:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will.
There was also the free-will offerings:
Leviticus 22:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Free-will Offering A spontaneous gift (Exo 35:29), a voluntary sacrifice (Lev 22:23; Ezr 3:5), as opposed to one in consequence of a vow, or in expiation of some offense
Leviticus 22:29
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And when ye will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving unto the Lord, offer it at your own will.
I've been marking all the ones that might actually hold up in an argument as I read and this isn't all of them, and granted my last example isn't very strong, but the others I think can hold up.
Leviticus 1:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish: he shall offer it of his own voluntary will at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation before the Lord.
Leviticus 19:5
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And if ye offer a sacrifice of peace offerings unto the Lord, ye shall offer it at your own will.
There was also the free-will offerings:
Leviticus 22:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Either a bullock or a lamb that hath any thing superfluous or lacking in his parts, that mayest thou offer for a freewill offering; but for a vow it shall not be accepted.
Free-will Offering A spontaneous gift (Exo 35:29), a voluntary sacrifice (Lev 22:23; Ezr 3:5), as opposed to one in consequence of a vow, or in expiation of some offense
Leviticus 22:29
[SUP]29 [/SUP]And when ye will offer a sacrifice of thanksgiving unto the Lord, offer it at your own will.
I've been marking all the ones that might actually hold up in an argument as I read and this isn't all of them, and granted my last example isn't very strong, but the others I think can hold up.
Here is one argument of God's will overriding man's will in the OT books I am reading, and there are many others in the NT.
Numbers 16:4-45
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
Numbers 16:4-45
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And when Moses heard it, he fell upon his face:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And he spake unto Korah and unto all his company, saying, Even to morrow the Lord will shew who are his, and who is holy; and will cause him to come near unto him: even him whom he hath chosen will he cause to come near unto him.
Hi Forthangel,
I certainly believe in humans having a will, the difference being, is the will 'free'. when the bible talks about a 'free will' offering it is simply referring to an offering that's was giving as an extra during feasts or times of celebration...maybe something like one of us giving to a charity or good cause outwith our normal tithes..it has not got anything to do with a humans 'will' as in 'free will'.
I certainly believe in humans having a will, the difference being, is the will 'free'. when the bible talks about a 'free will' offering it is simply referring to an offering that's was giving as an extra during feasts or times of celebration...maybe something like one of us giving to a charity or good cause outwith our normal tithes..it has not got anything to do with a humans 'will' as in 'free will'.
The offering is given of their own volition. I think we have a will of our own, but it is very much confined and restricted within the boundries of God's ultimate will. If our will could run free and rampant we could create worlds of our own jsut by speaking it. But we are not God. I see both sides as being true. We have a will that is free, as in we can make willful choices, but of course it is confined by the laws of space, time, and ultimately what God wills.
It is free within it's confines. Think about absolute freedom in our world. No laws, and no consequences for breaking any laws. It would be pure chaos and anarchy and people would be utterly destroyed by their own sin. Biblically, sin brings us into bondage (lawlessness, slavery, non-freedom). Therefore, would absolute freedom on earth truly be free? I think absolute freedom can only exist within a structure of laws, and God has confined us by natural and spiritual laws that our wills must conform to, or else something bad would happen. The universe would disintegrate or something lol I dunno.
I do think our will is free though, but can be overridden at any time by God's. Just because it is confined by law (God is a God of order I believe), does not make it any less free. On fact its contrary I believe. The state of lawfulness makes us even more free.
I do think our will is free though, but can be overridden at any time by God's. Just because it is confined by law (God is a God of order I believe), does not make it any less free. On fact its contrary I believe. The state of lawfulness makes us even more free.
was not free choice given to Adam from God? Did God not tell him he could freely eat from all the trees? Now only one was he warned about, that if he did eat from this certain one he would die. Now Adam and Eve both still had free choice to eat from this particular tree, and knew what the outcome would be if they ate from it.
Even though they ate from it, death came just as God said would if they did eat from it.
So I conclude free Choice to all from God. Otherwise God could never claim to love us, period. Otherwise we all would be nothing but puppets on strings. Which we are not
Even though they ate from it, death came just as God said would if they did eat from it.
So I conclude free Choice to all from God. Otherwise God could never claim to love us, period. Otherwise we all would be nothing but puppets on strings. Which we are not
Exodus 35:29 The children of Israel brought a freewill offering to the Lord, all the men and women whose hearts were willing to bring material for all kinds of work which the Lord, by the hand of Moses, had commanded to be done.
Leviticus 1:3 ‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord.
Leviticus 19:5 ‘And if you offer a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, you shall offer it of your own free will.
2 Corinthians 8:3 For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing,
Ephesians 6:8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
Leviticus 1:3 ‘If his offering is a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish; he shall offer it of his own free will at the door of the tabernacle of meeting before the Lord.
Leviticus 19:5 ‘And if you offer a sacrifice of a peace offering to the Lord, you shall offer it of your own free will.
2 Corinthians 8:3 For I bear witness that according to their ability, yes, and beyond their ability, they were freely willing,
Ephesians 6:8 knowing that whatever good anyone does, he will receive the same from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
What most people consider "free will" is the freedom to make choices. Each of us have the freedom of will to make choices according to the will of God or we can go outside of God's will and disobey. We are not on automatic pilot wherein we are forced to stay within the confines of God's will. . . we are not on automatic pilot and forced to have a relationship with God. God WANTS us to come to him, to FOLLOW him, to be in a RELATIONSHIP with him because we WANT to NOT because he has MADE us to.
Are there laws in which we do not have free will? . . .yes. For example: the physical law of gravity. . .if I jump off a building gravity will pull me no matter if I "will" it to or not! But in our relationship with God. . .we have the choice to obey and stay in fellowship with him or to disobey and have his protection removed from us. . .that is our choice.
To believe in Jesus Christ and have eternal life is a choice. To not believe in Jesus Christ and receive condemnation is a choice. . .Both choices that we are not MADE to choose but that we freely decide to choose.
Are there laws in which we do not have free will? . . .yes. For example: the physical law of gravity. . .if I jump off a building gravity will pull me no matter if I "will" it to or not! But in our relationship with God. . .we have the choice to obey and stay in fellowship with him or to disobey and have his protection removed from us. . .that is our choice.
To believe in Jesus Christ and have eternal life is a choice. To not believe in Jesus Christ and receive condemnation is a choice. . .Both choices that we are not MADE to choose but that we freely decide to choose.