The Israel of God

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Apr 14, 2013
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#81
God bless Israelis :eek:

[video=youtube;X3CoMrhk-3Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3CoMrhk-3Q[/video]​
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#82
When the fulness of the gentiles has come in, it will be no longer time for any to be grafted into the olive tree, at that time [ the end] all Israel shall be saved [ Not National Israel] but all Israel, the Israel of God, all them chosen in the True servant Israel, Jesus christ [ isa 49 ], this is clearly stated rom 11:26. Again Jesus is the Israel of whom the promises pertained [ gal 3:16] also see isa 49:1-3 of which it is said, has a sword in His mouth and His Name is Israel..Isa 49:

Listen, O isles, unto me; and hearken, ye people, from far; The LORD hath called me

from the womb; from the bowels of my mother hath he made mention of my name.

2And he hath made my mouth like a sharp sword; in the shadow of his hand hath he hid me, and made me a polished shaft; in his quiver hath he hid me; 3And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.

No doubt this is Jesus christ, and except one is in christ, they are not of the Israel of promise, which again is why paul writes rom 9:6. There was a national external covenant Israel, through the Law [ ex 20], and there is the eternal covenant Israel through election in Jesus christ before the world began, the foreknown rom 11:1..

Now if Jesus christ is the Israel per Isa 49, Hos 1 ; matt 2:15; and ps 80:8, then the church, His body, is the representation of the body of Israel..

When the last elect jew or gentile is brought into fellowship with Jesus christ their Head, then the end shall come..34
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#83
The Fable !


Titus 1:14

Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.

The whole concoction of a future restoration of National Israel is premised on mere speculation and spiritual blindness to the truth; for If God did make such a promise, then the promise would be unconditional, and if so, then how and why did He cut her off as branches from the covenant olive tree because of their unbelief ? For that would be absurd and contradicts the very nature of God in being Faithful to His covenant promises in spite of our unbelief per 2 tim 2:

13If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

But yet the false teaching of today's dispensationalist says just that, that Israel [ the nation] has been rejected only temporarily due to unbelief !
 
O

OwenHeidenreich

Guest
#84
Israel means "struggles with God" so that could be what the passage is referring to when it says
"THE" Israel OF God
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#85
The all Israel that will be saved !


Rom 11:26

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

The all Israel that will be saved is the all Israel for which the deliverer came out of zion [ which is Christ the messiah first coming] Isa 59:20

20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

The all Israel for whom He went to the cross to redeem per Ps 130:7-8

7 Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.

8 And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

Isa 44:21-23

21Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel,[see Isa 49:3] thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23Sing, O ye heavens; for the LORD hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel

Lk:68

68Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

This is not carnal Israel, but all the Israel of God, chosen not by race but by Grace in the Israel of God, Jesus Christ. The New Covenant with Israel is inclusive of the fullness of the gentiles and when that is completed, then cometh to pass, and so all Israel shall be saved, by the deliverer that came out of zion..

This was fulfilled during Jesus Christ first coming, and during His ministry then, He was the King that cometh unto zion..

Matt 21:1-6

1And when they drew nigh unto Jerusalem, and were come to Bethphage, unto the mount of Olives, then sent Jesus two disciples,

2Saying unto them, Go into the village over against you, and straightway ye shall find an *** tied, and a colt with her: loose them, and bring them unto me.

3And if any man say ought unto you, ye shall say, The Lord hath need of them; and straightway he will send them.

4All this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying,

5Tell ye the daughter of Sion, Behold, thy King cometh unto thee, meek, and sitting upon an ***, and a colt the foal of an ***.

6And the disciples went, and did as Jesus commanded them,

This turning of Jacob from ungodliness was accomplished by Jesus death on the cross, for it was used of God to turn many ethnic Jews of Israel to God, peter states here Acts 3:25-26

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

26Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities. cp with Rom 11:26

26And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob38
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#86
The Gifts and Callings of God


Rom 11:29

29For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

For the gifts and callings of God are without repentance; and thats why for the Fathers sake there is a remnant [ Israel of God] in Israel [ National Israel], again thats why Paul, a benjamite, a hebrew of hebrews , was made to see[converted], and thats why he had a good hope that many more of his jewish brethren would be turned to the Lord, they too being of the foreknown of God and the election of grace, of which the rest were broken off in their unbelief.

Note: When God set aside the National Covenant with Israel as a Nation being the representation of the Kingdom of God on earth as His People, that did not mean He would not still save ethnic Jews by grace..

You see those that were blinded [ Jn 9:39] were made enemies for the gentiles sake, that the elect remnant of them [ see Acts 15:14-16] may be grafted into the Olive Tree, but in regards to the remnant according to the election of grace [in national Israel], they are beloved for the Fathers sake, because the gifts and the callings of God's own eternal purpose of grace [ 2 Tim 1:9] and not race.

For God did not repent of His purpose of Judicial blindness unto the nation of Israel [ Jn 9:39] nor of His purpose and calling of the election of grace of the gentiles for james says:

Acts 15:17-18

17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

This blinding of national Israel and introducing of the gentiles into covenant relationship with the elect remnant of the jews, was all of Gods doing .. Matt 21:42

Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?39
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#87
God has not changed towards Israel


For God has not changed His purpose of Grace towards Israel, for He keeps His covenant faithfulness [ in spite of the rejection of Him by the jews of national Israel] He keeps His promise by converting the remnant according to the election of grace..That is Paul's point in Rom 11:2

God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. That means there were Jews in Israel He foreknew in their being chosen in Christ and predestinated to the Image of His Son per Rom 8:28


28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

So God is Faithful in converting the Jews of the nation who are of the election, and Heis Faithful in converting the gentiles of the nations who are of the election..and Gods plan entailed breaking off national Israel for the grafting in of the gentiles.

So in reality, it is those who believe in some kinda postponement theory [ jewish fable] that have no understanding of Gods immutability, for they fail to see Gods purpose in national Israel's fall [ Matt 21:42-43 ] and the grafting in of the gentiles per Acts 15:17-18


17That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world

Notice how this calling of the gentiles is associated with the building up of the tabernacle of David vs

16After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

This building again was in a spiritual way..notice how the terminology of building is used by Paul with the adding of the gentiles to build the temple of God Eph 2:19-22

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;


20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit

We should all know that the temple was built after the pattern of the tabernacle..

So vs 29 of Romans 11 is emphatically stating that the gifts and callings to the remnant Jews, and the remnant gentiles are without repentance by God; for this is evidenced by the everlasting covenant to Israel has not been annulled by the reject and blindness of National Israel in part, because the election [ within the nation] hath obtained the promises of the everlasting covenant along with the elect gentiles in the world, and this was the Mystery, but now being revealed by the Gospel 44
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#88
Romans 11:32

Rom 11:32

32For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all

This is one of the most misunderstood verses in romans, and the false teachers and followers of antichrist have a field day with it wresting it out of context. This verse is in the context of Paul's exposition of the mystery !

Rom 11:25

For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Rom 16:25

Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Eph 3:3

How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,

And how the unbelief of national Israel [ the partial blindness] was ordered by God for the inclusion or grafting in of the gentiles into Covenant Israel.

Now by God doing this, the gentiles [ the church] would now be instrumental of God, to call by the preaching of the gospel, the elect Jews of the nation into fellowship with Jesus Christ, as well as the elect gentiles too..In other words, now that national Israel is cut off, the elect Jews in that nation will come to faith in Christ through the preaching of the church, which would now be mainly gentiles. So God has by succession plans concluded both Jew and gentiles under unbelief, in order to Have mercy upon all, all people groups..

For at first the gentiles for the most part were in unbelief and ignorant to God and the true way of salvation during the OT era..but now under the new covenant era the tide has changed, and now the Jews for the most part are under unbelief, and now God has mercy on the remnant Jews through the ministry of the gentiles or church..

This was intimated long ago in this prophecy Isa 61:6

But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.

remember back earlier in Rom 11 this statement ? Rom 11:12

Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

The enriching of the gentiles, will fall to the enriching of the elect remnant in national Israel, even though for the most part the many Jews of that nation were blinded..

But the gentile church, would be used of God up until the end, to call out of national Israel a people for His name sake, as He called out of the gentiles a people for his name sake see Acts 15:14..

So thats what Paul means in this verse, in having mercy on all.. He shut down earlier the gentiles in unbelief [ OT ] and under the NT He shut down the Jews in unbelief..and He will have mercy upon each people group, for both groups of people contain a remnant according to the election of grace, which are the vessels of mercy, not of the Jews only but also of the gentiles Rom 9:23-24


23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles? 45
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#89
1 Cor 10:18 Israel after the flesh !


1 Cor 10:18

18 Observe Israel after the flesh: Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?

Israel after the flesh makes no sense in saying unless there is a Israel after the Spirit..

Rom 9:6

6Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
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#91
I wrote a section on this in my Masters Thesis which I recently published, looking primarily at Tim Laye and the dispensational drivers to his theology. Check it out :) REVELATION LEFT BEHIND eBook: David Glenn Harvey: Amazon.co.uk: Kindle Store
Product Description
The Left Behind Series was a phenomena in American Publishing selling over 60 millions copies for Evangelical Authors Tim La Haye and Jerry Jenkins. Not only was it a popular read, but it also helped shape the beliefs and theology of millions of its readers on such issues as the environment and the Middle East. This book, which originated as a Masters thesis, introduces the authors, their influence, and their theology, before critiquing in a little more detail the two main drivers to that Theology, namely, 'literal interpretation' and the 'distinction between the Church and Israel'. This critique enables us to establish the validity of these drivers and subsequent implications for this popular theology.'

okay.
your user name is Dispensational.
can i get a summary of your conclusion?
 
Jul 14, 2013
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#92
Who did Jesus really come for?

Matt 15.24
I was sent only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel


Jesus also sent them only to Israel

Matt 10.6
Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel

John20.21
As the father has sent me l am sending you



So who did Jesus save and why

Luke 19.9

Jesus said to him,today salvation has come to this house because this man too is a son of Abraham

Isaiah 41.8

But you Israel my servent Jacob whom l have chosen you descendants of Abraham my friend

Gal 3.29

If ye be Christs then ye be Abrahams seed and heirs according to the promise.

Now if Jesus came only for the sheep of Israel it puts this verse into context and it's speaking of the literal children of Abraham .



Let's look at the word gentiles .

Goy or goyim in the Hebrew ethos in the Greek.The word means nations.
When Paul mentions gentiles he is referring to lsrael scattered among the nations

Amos 9.9

For l will give the command and l will shake the people of Israel among all the nations as grain is shaken in a sieve ,yet not one true kernel will be lost


So the spiritual descendants must also be the literal unadulterated descendants of Abraham and Sarah to inherit the promises.
 
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Jan 21, 2013
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#93
retro

Who did Jesus really come for?

Matt 15.24
I was sent only for the lost sheep of the house of Israel
Yes, that proves that Jesus came only to save a particular people, God's Elect. The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel here is the Church, the Body of Christ.
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#94
That Jesus Christ is a Saviour unto Israel is the scriptural and biblical Gospel.

Paul preached it Acts 13:23

Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

That is, He is a Saviour unto the elect, for what is Israel but another name for Gods Chosen or elect.

Isa 41:8

But thou, Israel, art my servant, Jacob whom I have chosen, the seed of Abraham my friend.

God hath raised up Jesus to be a Saviour to His Chosen !47
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#95
A Saviour to Israel means that Jesus Christ purpose was to be a Saviour to Gods elect or chosen.

Acts 13:23

23Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

This proves that paul preached a limited atonement, and paul says that if any man preach another gospel different from what he had preached, let them be accursed.

Jesus resurrection was unto Israel, Gods Chosen !
 
Jan 21, 2013
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#96
Repentance and Remission of sins is only for Gods elect or Chosen. Acts 5:31

31Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

And this Elect Israel is among the Gentiles Acts 11:18

Israel is another way of saying Gods chosen people, His elect.

For any to preach repentance without indicating specifically who it is for as peter does here, they are not preaching the whole counsel of God, which makes it a false gospel.
 

zone

Senior Member
Jun 13, 2010
27,214
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#97
retro

Who did Jesus really come for?



Yes, that proves that Jesus came only to save a particular people, God's Elect. The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel here is the Church, the Body of Christ.
BUT I HAVE OTHER SHEEP ALSO...which are NOT OF THIS FOLD (ISRAEL) them I MUST BRING ALSO AND THEY SHALL ALL BE THE SONS OF GOD.
 
1

1still_waters

Guest
#98
Romans 1



13 Now I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that I often planned to come to you (but was hindered until now), that I might have some fruit among you also, just as among the other Gentiles


16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith,[e] as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”[f]
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#99
Mind you zone, You have to agree that the left behind series was actually a very well written science fiction that had a good moral story too it.. we have to give it some credit :)
 
Jan 21, 2013
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zone

BUT I HAVE OTHER SHEEP ALSO...
Yes, the Gentile Sheep are also of Israel, but not that Israel which is comprised of merely physical ethnic jews, but that Israel which is of the Election of Grace, Abraham's Spiritual Children !