can anyone interpret matthew 24 vs 30 and 31
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N
I think its a matter of reading it in order and understanding it,. I guess thats easier said then done. You should ask where its written, i mean you did ask for advice here, naturally you have to expect all kinds of responses .
But I don't see a rapture mentioned . Christ will return, but I don't know where a "taking" of anyone is in those scriptures most often quoted , before the tribulation. And because there are so many views, I rather narrow who to ask. Because, you have some that say Matt 24 is past... So its hard for me to even carry a conversation with that view. because the scriptures you need to look into, in Matthew 24, is basically in my opinion , they cover it over by saying its past. That seems to disregard; the language used there, for example " Such a time, that was not since the beginning of the creation nor Ever will be again" And they try to pass that off as small Roman tin horn general as doing that . That makes little sense to me.
But I don't see a rapture mentioned . Christ will return, but I don't know where a "taking" of anyone is in those scriptures most often quoted , before the tribulation. And because there are so many views, I rather narrow who to ask. Because, you have some that say Matt 24 is past... So its hard for me to even carry a conversation with that view. because the scriptures you need to look into, in Matthew 24, is basically in my opinion , they cover it over by saying its past. That seems to disregard; the language used there, for example " Such a time, that was not since the beginning of the creation nor Ever will be again" And they try to pass that off as small Roman tin horn general as doing that . That makes little sense to me.
H
Yeah, the "rapture" Rachel is talking about is post-tribulation. It's the gathering of the saints after the tribulation and before the thousand years begin.
The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is probably wrong. The tribulation will be for all of mankind. It's a final chance at repentance for the unfaithful and an extreme test of faith for Christians. The only ones who will be kept from God's seven bowls of wrath are the saints that are killed for refusing to worship the beast during the tribulation.
The idea of a pre-tribulation rapture is probably wrong. The tribulation will be for all of mankind. It's a final chance at repentance for the unfaithful and an extreme test of faith for Christians. The only ones who will be kept from God's seven bowls of wrath are the saints that are killed for refusing to worship the beast during the tribulation.
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N
Im not sure im comfortable with any rapture, The scripture says Christ is returning here It is a gathering, but it does not say where anyone is taken. Remember Christ is returing here not to leave again. I'm guessing people believe he will leave some where. But where is that written.
Even with pre rapture out of the way. I think we need to be aware, of what , the actions are of the Antichrist and what the actions will be of the believers .
Many people are teaching death and destruction, While ignoring that God said, "hurt no one", in Revelation. and its sybolisim about the events.
It is written in Rev 12: 9 , Satan, is let out of heaven to deceive, its the same thing mentioned in Rev 13 of the 2nd beast . Deception is the same thing mentioned in Mark 13 and Matthew 24 Luke 21.
And its written, that if you overcome, you dont face the 2nd death.( thats of the soul 1 cor 15: - ) So, why would people teach the death of the body is what they have to worry about, when death of the body does not effect the state of the soul.
In the events of Anitchrist, he is coming to "Decieve" , not to kill the body , but the soul is what is at stake here. You cants cause some one to loose their eternal life, by killing their body.
If are convinced, that Anitchrist is coming to kill, they will be taken off guard, when he comes in peacefully.
If you can see where im coming from, even with rapture out of the way, There are other issues that have to be prayed about.
Even with pre rapture out of the way. I think we need to be aware, of what , the actions are of the Antichrist and what the actions will be of the believers .
Many people are teaching death and destruction, While ignoring that God said, "hurt no one", in Revelation. and its sybolisim about the events.
It is written in Rev 12: 9 , Satan, is let out of heaven to deceive, its the same thing mentioned in Rev 13 of the 2nd beast . Deception is the same thing mentioned in Mark 13 and Matthew 24 Luke 21.
And its written, that if you overcome, you dont face the 2nd death.( thats of the soul 1 cor 15: - ) So, why would people teach the death of the body is what they have to worry about, when death of the body does not effect the state of the soul.
In the events of Anitchrist, he is coming to "Decieve" , not to kill the body , but the soul is what is at stake here. You cants cause some one to loose their eternal life, by killing their body.
If are convinced, that Anitchrist is coming to kill, they will be taken off guard, when he comes in peacefully.
If you can see where im coming from, even with rapture out of the way, There are other issues that have to be prayed about.
F
Study what the soul is in scripture from creation on. For God created man. God gave man the breath of life and without the breath there is no soul. The soul and the body can and will die But in Christ we can live and have life more abundently. Only God has the power of life and death. Those who are alive and remain at his comming will be taken up to live with Christ along with those who have died in Christ. We all will rise to meet him in the air 1Thess 4:13-18. we will then go with him to live in the many mansions prepared for us and will dwell with him for a thousand years. Then Christ and all of us will return with him to the Earth after the thousand years and new Jerusalem will decend and touch down at the mount of Olives which will split. Then Satan will be allowed to lead those who he deceived for they will be raised form the dead only to die one final time to attack the walls of the city, The fire will fall upon them and destroy them for eternity and Sin will live no more.
Let me first admit that I do not know you nor anything about you. What I am about to say is a general observation that I have seen in most people who spend a great deal of time obsessing over the book of Revelation. I have noticed that when many people begin to entertain the idea of studying scripture it seems they are drawn to the mysterious nature of this book. Rather than beginning with basic principles and learning to study scripture on a fundamental level, they begin with the book of Revelation and attempt to understand this book with little or no understanding of the its O.T. roots. When one does this they will never be able to grasp this book nor the imagery that is represented therein. This creates great gaps in one's biblical education and invariably leads to unwarranted speculation and misunderstanding of the book. When one engages in the study of mathematics, one does not begin by studying calculus. One must begin at the beginning. In order to arrive at calculus and be able to understand the mathematical principles behind this level of math one must begin by first learning what a number is.
In order to understand the book of Revelation, one must learn to appeal to the O.T. in order to understand the symbolisms given in the book. John does not simply pull these images out of thin air. These images are rooted in O.T. writings. In order to understand their significance in Revelation one must first understand how these images were used by the prophets from which they are taken. What I am about to share with you on Rev. 8:7 may not make a lot of sense to you if you do not have sufficient background knowledge to put the pieces together.
Looking briefly at the context of the chapter beginning with the opening of the seventh seal in verse one, the sounding of the trumpets announced the beginning of the end of Jerusalem. This would be accompanied by the destruction of the Temple and the collapse of the O.T. sacrificial system. This is the end of the world that Jesus speaks of in Matt. 24:3 and 14. This is not the literal destruction of the world of humanity but of the Jewish economy. God is about to bring THEIR world to an end. The imagery of the seven trumpets certainly brings to mind Joshua's destruction of the city of Jericho in Joshua 6. In this narrative, the seven priests broke the seven pictures and blew their trumpets on the seventh day of the siege and the city fell. The sounding of the seven trumpets of Revelation 8 in like manor will signify the destruction of Jerusalem. This was to herald the fall of the "faithful city" who had become a harlot and persecutor of the Church. She would be replaced by the "New Jerusalem" of Rev. 21. The seven trumpets signaled a series of judgments woes and plagues that would befall the nation. When the seventh trumpet sounded in verse 7, it was followed by plagues of hail, fire, and blood, (reminiscent of the plagues of Egypt in Exodus). These are pictures or symbolisms of devastation brought upon the nation represented by the destruction of one third of the trees and the grass. The three woes pronounced in verses 7-10 each boast a destructive power of one third - one third destruction of the vegetation, one third of the water, one third of the marine life, and one third of the ships.
To understand the book of Revelation you must first learn the nature of judgment figures.
In order to understand the book of Revelation, one must learn to appeal to the O.T. in order to understand the symbolisms given in the book. John does not simply pull these images out of thin air. These images are rooted in O.T. writings. In order to understand their significance in Revelation one must first understand how these images were used by the prophets from which they are taken. What I am about to share with you on Rev. 8:7 may not make a lot of sense to you if you do not have sufficient background knowledge to put the pieces together.
Looking briefly at the context of the chapter beginning with the opening of the seventh seal in verse one, the sounding of the trumpets announced the beginning of the end of Jerusalem. This would be accompanied by the destruction of the Temple and the collapse of the O.T. sacrificial system. This is the end of the world that Jesus speaks of in Matt. 24:3 and 14. This is not the literal destruction of the world of humanity but of the Jewish economy. God is about to bring THEIR world to an end. The imagery of the seven trumpets certainly brings to mind Joshua's destruction of the city of Jericho in Joshua 6. In this narrative, the seven priests broke the seven pictures and blew their trumpets on the seventh day of the siege and the city fell. The sounding of the seven trumpets of Revelation 8 in like manor will signify the destruction of Jerusalem. This was to herald the fall of the "faithful city" who had become a harlot and persecutor of the Church. She would be replaced by the "New Jerusalem" of Rev. 21. The seven trumpets signaled a series of judgments woes and plagues that would befall the nation. When the seventh trumpet sounded in verse 7, it was followed by plagues of hail, fire, and blood, (reminiscent of the plagues of Egypt in Exodus). These are pictures or symbolisms of devastation brought upon the nation represented by the destruction of one third of the trees and the grass. The three woes pronounced in verses 7-10 each boast a destructive power of one third - one third destruction of the vegetation, one third of the water, one third of the marine life, and one third of the ships.
To understand the book of Revelation you must first learn the nature of judgment figures.
Job 19 I know that my redeemer lives,
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
Matthew 5:35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
Matthew 17:23They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.
Luke 24:7‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”
John 2:19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
John 3:14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Matthew 15:9They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Matt 21 15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.
16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.
“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,
“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise?”
<em><strong>[video=youtube_share;pzOHFJE42PY]http://youtu.be/pzOHFJE42PY[/video]
and that in the end he will stand on the earth.
26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet in my flesh I will see God;
Matthew 5:35or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King.
Matthew 17:23They will kill him, and on the third day he will be raised to life.” And the disciples were filled with grief.
Luke 24:7‘The Son of Man must be delivered over to the hands of sinners, be crucified and on the third day be raised again.’ ”
John 2:19Jesus answered them, “Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.”
John 3:14Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,
Matthew 15:9They worship me in vain; their teachings are merely human rules.’”
John 4:23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
Matt 21 15 But when the chief priests and the teachers of the law saw the wonderful things he did and the children shouting in the temple courts, “Hosanna to the Son of David,” they were indignant.
16 “Do you hear what these children are saying?” they asked him.
“Yes,” replied Jesus, “have you never read,
“‘From the lips of children and infants
you, Lord, have called forth your praise?”
<em><strong>[video=youtube_share;pzOHFJE42PY]http://youtu.be/pzOHFJE42PY[/video]
These verses do not need to be interpreted, they mean what they plainly say. What they plainly say is what will happen after the Tribulation of those days described in the previous verses 1-29
It is the Rapture,
It is the Return of Christ to the Earth to rule for a thousand years, the Saints who are taken up with Him, will reign with Him for a thousand years.
The great sound of the Trumpet is the last of the 7 Trumpets of Revelations.
^i^
It is the Rapture,
It is the Return of Christ to the Earth to rule for a thousand years, the Saints who are taken up with Him, will reign with Him for a thousand years.
The great sound of the Trumpet is the last of the 7 Trumpets of Revelations.
^i^
H
This is what we mean by post-tribulation rapture:
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16)
H
John's Revelation describes the 7-year tribulation period that will fulfill several OT prophecies; I won't post a list here. That 7-year period has not happened yet.
Be careful about accepting preterism. We've been given these prophecies so that we're somewhat aware of what is going to happen immediately preceding the return of our Lord. He wants us to be able to recognize the season when it is time.
Here's just one argument against preterism: after the 7-year tribulation, Satan is locked up in the Abyss (locked, covered, and sealed) for a thousand years. This has not happened. Peter warns us to beware of Satan because he prowls around today.
Be careful about accepting preterism. We've been given these prophecies so that we're somewhat aware of what is going to happen immediately preceding the return of our Lord. He wants us to be able to recognize the season when it is time.
Here's just one argument against preterism: after the 7-year tribulation, Satan is locked up in the Abyss (locked, covered, and sealed) for a thousand years. This has not happened. Peter warns us to beware of Satan because he prowls around today.
Revelations 13;12,,,,,the beast (before) him,,,,(first,the beast that existed before the two horned beast),,,,so 7 heads,one wounded,10 horns,1 little one all come,,,then after they are all present in the world,,,,the two horned beast comes(two horned is after the beast before it),,,i will set a fire around me of arguments,,,,why would the Zionist Jews and the Islamist agree to divide the land for gain,build the temple await the same Messiah(not Christ) and when he comes look at him the same way you look at Jesus?,,,,,matt. 30,31 is because the false Messiah is standing in the midst of "all the tribes of the earth shall mourn,,,and they shall see,,,"
The problem everyone, or most, seem to have is the fundamental failure to recognize dual prophesies. Everyone is familiar with the old adage, "Those that don't learn from history are destined to repeat it." While not scriptural it is certainly applicable to much in the Bible. I mentioned this in another thread and someone mentioned it here too. The 7 trumpets of Joshua are very similar, or will be, to the 7 trumpets of Revelation. The Joshua trumpets were used to defeat Jericho which was the first stop in Israel taking the promised land. Many other similarities to Joshua can be found in end time prophesies such as the huge hail stones which killed more than the sword.
The 70 weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, culminating in the events surrounding AD 70 and the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. The Great Revolt began in the year 66, originating in the Greek and Jewish religious tensions. The crisis escalated due to anti-taxation protest (sound familiar) and attacks upon Roman citizens. The Romans responded by plundering the second Jewish temple and executing 6,000 Jews in Jerusalem, prompting the full-scale rebellion. The Romans scattered the Jews who fled to the mountains. The seize of the Jewish bandits at Masada ended on April 16, 73 AD. I have been to Masada, it is amazing. The Jewish - Roman conflict of that era lasted 7 years from 66-73 AD.
History will repeat itself. When Jesus returns and "takes" Jerusalem, he will kill 7,000 thereby avenging the 2 witnesses but also bettering the 6,000 Jews who were killed with the number of completion -7. Rev 11:13. The days of 70 AD will mirror closely the latter days in many respects.
The 70 weeks of Daniel have been fulfilled, culminating in the events surrounding AD 70 and the destruction of the temple and Jerusalem. The Great Revolt began in the year 66, originating in the Greek and Jewish religious tensions. The crisis escalated due to anti-taxation protest (sound familiar) and attacks upon Roman citizens. The Romans responded by plundering the second Jewish temple and executing 6,000 Jews in Jerusalem, prompting the full-scale rebellion. The Romans scattered the Jews who fled to the mountains. The seize of the Jewish bandits at Masada ended on April 16, 73 AD. I have been to Masada, it is amazing. The Jewish - Roman conflict of that era lasted 7 years from 66-73 AD.
History will repeat itself. When Jesus returns and "takes" Jerusalem, he will kill 7,000 thereby avenging the 2 witnesses but also bettering the 6,000 Jews who were killed with the number of completion -7. Rev 11:13. The days of 70 AD will mirror closely the latter days in many respects.