Tattoos and Piercings

[ForthAngel]

How about a personal conviction concerning this?

Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.

It does not really matter about your or my personal convictions...

Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another?

The tattooing law was directly linked to pagan god worship when the law was given. I'm willing to wager that many Israelites had tattoos and piercings that weren't pagan related. Of course I can't prove that though. Many, but not all sins, seem to be linked to intent.

You mention below that governments enforce the death penalty and here you allude to the thou shalt not kill commandment. Is the executioner sinning when he gives the injection? Apparently those who carried out the stonings weren't sinning or in the end there would have only been one person left alive who would have had to stoned himself for murder cuz no one would have been left to do it for him.

It seems to me that you are saying since we don't live in a theocracy, we still need to uphold as many of the old laws as possible without breaking any of our current governing laws? If that's the case, I understand that, I just disagree. Moral laws that involve loving God and your neighbor? Sure. Jesus commanded it. We are Christians, not the ancient Israelites.

There is another thread about proper dress for church where I mentioned that if someone is gonna flaunt their body in how they dress that they could possibly be causing other Christians to sin and preventing non-Christians from coming to salvation. The same can be said about tattoos in this case and I agree that having a tattoo could possibly be a stumbling block for some. I still disagree that it is sinful to have one however, depending on the intent.

Should we still get circumcised? Should we still eat only kosher foods?

 

[ForthAngel]

We also have to remember that God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. And if God is the same, then certainly HIS WORD, the Bible, is the same. I hear too often that people try to make excuses that the Bible was for years ago and not for our time. Excuses that it's not for us, but it for those people way back then, etc. Excuse to try to twist the word of God to suit us. Why do real Christians try to twist the word of God to suit themselves? I said it before and I will say it again. Sometimes we just have to do something or NOT do it, just because GOD SAID SO. We don't need to ask all the questions. Who are we to question something when God tells us NOT to do something, or questions when he tells to DO something? We are to be obedient children of God and do it just because he said so, and we may never ever know the answers or the reasons why. We have to have faith to believe that these are the teachings of our Father in Heaven, and He tells us what pleases him and what doesn't. Have you ever heard a parent tell a child to do something, and the child asks why, and the parent turns around and says "because I said so". Well, the same with God. We are to do things or not do things, just because he said so. I'm so sick of people saying the Bible is for those that lived in those times, they are not for everyone, it doesn't mean we can't do this because in these days we can, etc, etc. God doesn't change and neither does His word. And if we all want to be REAL Christians and not superficial or hypocritical Christians, then we must live by the word of God.

Should we still sacrifice animals and be circumcised? Did God change?

 

[john832]

The tattooing law was directly linked to pagan god worship when the law was given. I'm willing to wager that many Israelites had tattoos and piercings that weren't pagan related. Of course I can't prove that though. Many, but not all sins, seem to be linked to intent.

You mention below that governments enforce the death penalty and here you allude to the thou shalt not kill commandment. Is the executioner sinning when he gives the injection? Apparently those who carried out the stonings weren't sinning or in the end there would have only been one person left alive who would have had to stoned himself for murder cuz no one would have been left to do it for him.

The government has been authorized to carry out the death penalty for a loooong time...

Gen 9:6 Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man.

And today?

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

So to head off any discussion of whether to pay taxes...

Rom 13:6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.
Rom 13:7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

It seems to me that you are saying since we don't live in a theocracy, we still need to uphold as many of the old laws as possible without breaking any of our current governing laws? If that's the case, I understand that, I just disagree. Moral laws that involve loving God and your neighbor? Sure. Jesus commanded it. We are Christians, not the ancient Israelites.

Hmmm...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Whaddya think? Was He just kidding?

There is another thread about proper dress for church where I mentioned that if someone is gonna flaunt their body in how they dress that they could possibly be causing other Christians to sin and preventing non-Christians from coming to salvation. The same can be said about tattoos in this case and I agree that having a tattoo could possibly be a stumbling block for some. I still disagree that it is sinful to have one however, depending on the intent.

Should we still get circumcised? Should we still eat only kosher foods?

Should we be circumsized?

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:

Yes, emphatically yes.

Do you know the difference between kosher and clean? Kosher is not required but clean is...

1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

Now where in the word of God are meats set apart (sanctified means set apart)?

Lev 11 and Deut 14.

The Designer and Creator of the humna body knows exactly what is food for it and what is not. You buy a car and the instruction book says to fuel it with gasoline of at least an octane rating of 87 with no more than 10% ethanol. Do you runt paint thinner in it?

 

[starfield]

The Lord has a tattoo on his thigh. Rev. 19:16

Christ came to fulfil the demands of the Mosaic Law so do you think He would violate Leviticus 19:28?
It's most likely written on His clothing at the area covering His thigh.

 

[Dread_Zeppelin1]

Christ came to fulfil the demands of the Mosaic Law so do you think He would violate Leviticus 19:28?
It's most likely written on His clothing at the area covering His thigh.

You're right... "Written on his thigh" probably doesn't mean written on his thigh. I hate it when I take the Bible too literally.

 

[Elizabeth619]

This is a clear and simple question to answer. I don't know what the fuss is all about. Lev 19:28 says "Ye shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you." Piercings are cuts in the flesh. Ok, so we don't do it for the dead, but we should not do anything to our body, as our body is the temple of God, and he made us without piercings and tattoos. It clearly states that we should not print any marks on our body." Simple.

Ever had surgery?

 

[Elizabeth619]

How sad to see so many judging ones outward appearance.

I know many people who have tattoos and later gave their life to God. If tattoos are wrong then that wrong has been forgiven, but the markings are still there. How many of you all would continue to consider these people Godless simply by the marks on their skin?
Why would you judge something that has already forgiven by God?

 

[ForthAngel]

The government has been authorized to carry out the death penalty for a loooong time...

Those who have tattoos aren't resisting the ordinance of God, nor is it evil.. There is no man-made law preventing people from getting tattoos either once they are of legal age. Therefore no laws are broken.

Whaddya think? Was He just kidding?

Of course I don't think he was kidding. The laws are eternal. Many of the Israelites laws were to preserve their race by prevention of disease and other reasons that do not apply to us. It's morality we focus on. If I'm not getting a tattoo to glorify a pagan god, I am not breaking one of those laws aka thou shalt have no other gods before me. The laws are still in effect as is clearly stated, but you seem to misunderstand grace. We all fall short.. As for personal conviction and creating doubt and stumbling blocks over irrelevant matters that don't compromise the gospel in any way, here:

Romans 14:10-23

King James Version (KJV)


[SUP]10 [/SUP]But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

[SUP]11 [/SUP]For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.

[SUP]19 [/SUP]Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

[SUP]20 [/SUP]For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

[SUP]21 [/SUP]It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

[SUP]22[/SUP]Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

[SUP]23 [/SUP]And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

Should we be circumsized?

Yes, emphatically yes.

Do you know the difference between kosher and clean? Kosher is not required but clean is...

I was speaking of physcical circumcision, not spiritual. Do we still need the physical circumcision? Should we still refrain from eating pork?

 

[ForthAngel]

And in this case, it's not the tattoos creating the stumbling block, but those who are causing doubt to arise in those who have them in good faith. You are being the stumbling block.

 

[Elizabeth619]

I don't even like tattoos, but some of the legalistic views in this thread are ridiculous.

 

[Graybeard]

To Graybeard: NO I don't have pierced ears and neither do any of my daughters or other women of my family or church. Also, NO tattoos. I live by what I believe... faith without works is dead.

Good for you, but does that mean that everyone who's ears are pieced are in sin?
and what do you say about:
Lev 19:27 You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard.

 

[Cino]

Ever had surgery?

You are taking this out of content. This kind of cutting to your flesh does not include surgery. That is so far off the path, that I hardly even think it is worthy of answering. We are not talking about that kind of cutting. Come on people, wake up and don't try to twist the word of God. God said not to do it, so that's it.

 

[Cino]

Look, anything conforming to the world should be eliminated from Christians. The Bible says to keep yourself unspotted from the world. We can discuss things that go into grey matter, and it all boils down to not conforming to the world. I see my point is getting nowhere, and may are disillusioned, or perhaps Satan has already blinded so many???? I rest my case!

 

[RockyBornAgain]

Josh123 said it perfectly, "the body is a temple of God, think about that before you do anything." Personally I used to have piercings and I have a few tattoos. I don't want to ignore certain parts of the Bible, or twist them to make me happy.

 

[Praus]

Look, anything conforming to the world should be eliminated from Christians. The Bible says to keep yourself unspotted from the world. We can discuss things that go into grey matter, and it all boils down to not conforming to the world. I see my point is getting nowhere, and may are disillusioned, or perhaps Satan has already blinded so many???? I rest my case!

John warned us about this.

1 Peter 1:19 but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot. (ESV)

Matt 27:26 Then he released for them Barabbas, and having scourged Jesus, delivered him to be crucified. (ESV)

John 19:1 Then Pilate took Jesus and flogged him. 2 And the soldiers twisted together a crown of thorns and put it on his head and arrayed him in a purple robe. (ESV)

1 John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.

 

[Elizabeth619]

Look, anything conforming to the world should be eliminated from Christians. The Bible says to keep yourself unspotted from the world. We can discuss things that go into grey matter, and it all boils down to not conforming to the world. I see my point is getting nowhere, and may are disillusioned, or perhaps Satan has already blinded so many???? I rest my case!

You have no case. You unrighteously judge others due to their physical appearance. Tattoos can be forgiven. You haven't ONCE mentioned that. Tattoos do not reflect one's heart, especially if one became a Christian AFTER they received them.

You accuse others who do not agree with you of being blinded by Satan over physical differences and not concentrating on their heart. You may need to look in the mirror.

Since we are concentrating on physical differences between the Godly and ungodly I really hope you dont have a wedding ring, had a wedding ceremony, eat pork, shellfish, cut your hair, burn candles, decorate with wreaths, and wear a cross. ALL of these are pagan.

 

[john832]

Christ came to fulfil the demands of the Mosaic Law so do you think He would violate Leviticus 19:28?
It's most likely written on His clothing at the area covering His thigh.

Did He come to fulfill them so that we don't have to?

 

[john832]

Good for you, but does that mean that everyone who's ears are pieced are in sin?
and what do you say about:
Lev 19:27 You shall not shave around the sides of your head, nor shall you disfigure the edges of your beard.

Answered that once for ya. Apparently it wasn't what you wanted to hear.

 

[Brother_Don]

not proud of my tats, but since i can only go forward, i've learned from my mistakes. Today, for me it was a mistake, i'm not speaking for any one else.

 

[lcerveny]

Why would anyone want to let another person cut on them? Getting a tattoo is painful what is the point? Personally, I think they look dirty. I think it is disrespectful to the Lord to cut on the body he gave you. If you repent then I believe God will forgive you Cover it up!