B
Perhaps you would prefer enlisting them here.
WATCH: Kids BRUTALLY Beat 6 Grader on School Bus While Driver Stands By - YouTube
WATCH: Kids BRUTALLY Beat 6 Grader on School Bus While Driver Stands By - YouTube
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have you read Acts with understanding?
it was known human languages.
it's exceedingly clear.
'dead seminaries; tithe-payers'?
that's funny because it's the SoFs of certain denominations which claim the evidence of the Spirit is glossolalia.
not the Bible.
ironically, one specific branch of that denom actually mandates a Mosaic tithe.
which is unbiblical.
it claims blessings and curses based on the tithe - for Christians
ouch.
LOL.
come now, rick.....
let us reason together.
it was known human languages.
it's exceedingly clear.
'dead seminaries; tithe-payers'?
that's funny because it's the SoFs of certain denominations which claim the evidence of the Spirit is glossolalia.
not the Bible.
ironically, one specific branch of that denom actually mandates a Mosaic tithe.
which is unbiblical.
it claims blessings and curses based on the tithe - for Christians
ouch.
LOL.
come now, rick.....
let us reason together.
Acts 19
Twelve Disciples of John the Baptist
1While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions and came to Ephesus. He found some disciplesa 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? ”b
“No,” they told him, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”c
3“Then what baptism were you baptized with? ” he asked them.
“With John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance,e telling the people that they should believe in the One who would come after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands ong them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began to speak in other languages and to prophesy.h 7Now there were about 12 men in all. - Holman
.....
so, they were baptized in water, in the Name of Jesus (now that they knew His Name, having had an incomplete knowledge of Who the Messiah was, they clearly were not present when He walked the region, and were not at Pentecost).
then Paul laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came on them (Apostles could do that)
and they began to speak in other languages, and to prophesy.
they were evidently JEWS, since they had been baptized with John's baptism - though we don't know enough about them, except they were an isolated community of 12.
here's old Matthew Henry (dead seminary type guy?):
They did believe in the Son of God; but Paul enquires whether they had received the Holy Ghost,-whether they believed in the spirit, whose operations on the minds of men, for conviction, conversion, and comfort, were revealed some time after the doctrine of Jesus being the Christ,-whether they had been acquainted with, and had admitted, this revelation? This was not all; extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were conferred upon the apostles and other disciples presently after Christ's ascension, which was frequently repeated upon occasion; had they participated in these gifts? "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? Have you had that seal of the truth of Christ's doctrine in yourselves?"
We are not now to expect any such extraordinary gifts as they had then. The canon of the New Testament being long since completed and ratified, we depend upon that as the most sure word of prophecy. But there are graces of the Spirit given to all believers, which are as earnests to them, 2 Co. 1:22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13, 14. Now it concerns us all who profess the Christian faith seriously to enquire whether we have received the Holy Ghost or not. The Holy Ghost is promised to all believers, to all petitioners (Lu. 11:13); but many are deceived in this matter, thinking they have received the Holy Ghost when really they have not.
As there are pretenders to the gifts of the Holy Ghost, so there are to his graces and comforts; we should therefore strictly examine ourselves, Have we received the Holy Ghost since we believed?
Twelve Disciples of John the Baptist
1While Apollos was in Corinth, Paul traveled through the interior regions and came to Ephesus. He found some disciplesa 2and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed? ”b
“No,” they told him, “we haven’t even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.”c
3“Then what baptism were you baptized with? ” he asked them.
“With John’s baptism,” they replied.
4Paul said, “John baptized with a baptism of repentance,e telling the people that they should believe in the One who would come after him, that is, in Jesus.”
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 And when Paul had laid his hands ong them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began to speak in other languages and to prophesy.h 7Now there were about 12 men in all. - Holman
.....
so, they were baptized in water, in the Name of Jesus (now that they knew His Name, having had an incomplete knowledge of Who the Messiah was, they clearly were not present when He walked the region, and were not at Pentecost).
then Paul laid hands on them and the Holy Spirit came on them (Apostles could do that
)and they began to speak in other languages, and to prophesy.
they were evidently JEWS
, since they had been baptized with John's baptism - though we don't know enough about them, except they were an isolated community of 12.here's old Matthew Henry (dead seminary type guy?):
They did believe in the Son of God; but Paul enquires whether they had received the Holy Ghost,-whether they believed in the spirit, whose operations on the minds of men, for conviction, conversion, and comfort, were revealed some time after the doctrine of Jesus being the Christ,-whether they had been acquainted with, and had admitted, this revelation? This was not all; extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were conferred upon the apostles and other disciples presently after Christ's ascension, which was frequently repeated upon occasion; had they participated in these gifts? "Have you received the Holy Ghost since you believed? Have you had that seal of the truth of Christ's doctrine in yourselves?"
We are not now to expect any such extraordinary gifts as they had then. The canon of the New Testament being long since completed and ratified, we depend upon that as the most sure word of prophecy. But there are graces of the Spirit given to all believers, which are as earnests to them, 2 Co. 1:22; 5:5; Eph. 1:13, 14. Now it concerns us all who profess the Christian faith seriously to enquire whether we have received the Holy Ghost or not. The Holy Ghost is promised to all believers, to all petitioners (Lu. 11:13); but many are deceived in this matter, thinking they have received the Holy Ghost when really they have not.
As there are pretenders to the gifts of the Holy Ghost, so there are to his graces and comforts; we should therefore strictly examine ourselves, Have we received the Holy Ghost since we believed?
How many pentecostals would enlist their children here ? Please answer seriously and truthfully.
Children Move Into Intercession - YouTube
which elicits this response:
Perhaps you would prefer enlisting them here.
WATCH: Kids BRUTALLY Beat 6 Grader on School Bus While Driver Stands By - YouTube
what does your video have to do with this?
How many pentecostals would enlist their children here ? Please answer seriously and truthfully.
Children Move Into Intercession - YouTube
...
i don't get why nobody from the glossolalia camp just addresses the video itself - instead of a ton of distractions or hand-waving and stuff.
i'm thinking maybe varying stages of dawning awareness that this house of cards won't stand? (hence: shock, denial, then anger, etc). just a hunch, but who knows
we saw in the other videos, eastern religious practitioners (hindu, TM, etc) doing the exact same things.
i'm sure no one is jumping all over people from pagan religions who really don't know any better, but need the gospel desperately.
the issue (me tinks) is when this is done and called christian.
Children Move Into Intercession - YouTube
which elicits this response:
Perhaps you would prefer enlisting them here.
WATCH: Kids BRUTALLY Beat 6 Grader on School Bus While Driver Stands By - YouTube
what does your video have to do with this?
How many pentecostals would enlist their children here ? Please answer seriously and truthfully.
Children Move Into Intercession - YouTube
...
i don't get why nobody from the glossolalia camp just addresses the video itself
- instead of a ton of distractions or hand-waving and stuff.i'm thinking maybe varying stages of dawning awareness that this house of cards won't stand? (hence: shock, denial, then anger, etc). just a hunch, but who knows
we saw in the other videos, eastern religious practitioners (hindu, TM, etc) doing the exact same things.
i'm sure no one is jumping all over people from pagan religions who really don't know any better, but need the gospel desperately.
the issue (me tinks) is when this is done and called christian.
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There are 2 types of tongues
The gift of tongues is a personal issue, to be shared only among a very few if that. Think of this as a ‘prayer language’ and not for public consumption. It is to be an adjunct to prayer; so that the Holy Spirit may pray thru us so we may speak to things and ways we otherwise wouldn't know to address. This tongue is for believers, since it is a tool to be used by believers for the spiritual edification of ourselves and those we pray for. Use in small prayers circles within an assembly may be appropriate if kept private among that group. This may be also used in lifting praise and worship towards God in an assembly that is doing so. It is a partnering with the Spirit in which you speak but the Spirit gives the words.
Then there is a public tongue, or prophecy, intended for public consumption and spoken among an assembly. If one feels they are being led to give a word to an assembly, they should report that to church leadership. Someone else should likewise report being led to interpret a word, before leadership permission is given to address the assembly. This tongue is given to an assembly as an exhortation, and a sign and wonder.
And then there's the origin of 'tongues'. As man's numbers grew after creation he had a single spiritual language. It was one of the few things he kept out of the fall, and it persisted until the tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns to restore all that man has lost, one of those things restored will be that pure singular spiritual language. Christ has won the authority to restore the world, but has yet to return to enforce it. Tongues are an ability for us to access now that future restored language thru the Holy Spirit. Where it talks about tongues 'ceasing', it's not that speaking in that manner will stop, but that doing so will cease to be known as a tongue, because it will be in fact our native language. English at that point would be the tongue.
Tongues are not necessary for salvation, nor should they be demanded as proof of Spiritual Baptism. As with all gifts of the Spirit, it is available to all but not required of any. And like all the gifts, it is effective in helping produce the fruits that are required. The gifts of the Spirit are intended to help us produce the fruits of the Spirit.
Given a good thing, we humans will find some way to screw it up. We will over-use, over-sell, and over-the-top it. That's just our nature. That's when outsiders start thinking we're crazy, and that's where Paul tells some to put a leash on it. Place and moderation are key to tongues being useful vs being foolish. And being foolish with God’s gifts is never a good idea.
The gift of tongues is a personal issue, to be shared only among a very few if that. Think of this as a ‘prayer language’ and not for public consumption. It is to be an adjunct to prayer; so that the Holy Spirit may pray thru us so we may speak to things and ways we otherwise wouldn't know to address. This tongue is for believers, since it is a tool to be used by believers for the spiritual edification of ourselves and those we pray for. Use in small prayers circles within an assembly may be appropriate if kept private among that group. This may be also used in lifting praise and worship towards God in an assembly that is doing so. It is a partnering with the Spirit in which you speak but the Spirit gives the words.
Then there is a public tongue, or prophecy, intended for public consumption and spoken among an assembly. If one feels they are being led to give a word to an assembly, they should report that to church leadership. Someone else should likewise report being led to interpret a word, before leadership permission is given to address the assembly. This tongue is given to an assembly as an exhortation, and a sign and wonder.
And then there's the origin of 'tongues'. As man's numbers grew after creation he had a single spiritual language. It was one of the few things he kept out of the fall, and it persisted until the tower of Babel. When the Messiah returns to restore all that man has lost, one of those things restored will be that pure singular spiritual language. Christ has won the authority to restore the world, but has yet to return to enforce it. Tongues are an ability for us to access now that future restored language thru the Holy Spirit. Where it talks about tongues 'ceasing', it's not that speaking in that manner will stop, but that doing so will cease to be known as a tongue, because it will be in fact our native language. English at that point would be the tongue.
Tongues are not necessary for salvation, nor should they be demanded as proof of Spiritual Baptism. As with all gifts of the Spirit, it is available to all but not required of any. And like all the gifts, it is effective in helping produce the fruits that are required. The gifts of the Spirit are intended to help us produce the fruits of the Spirit.
Given a good thing, we humans will find some way to screw it up. We will over-use, over-sell, and over-the-top it. That's just our nature. That's when outsiders start thinking we're crazy, and that's where Paul tells some to put a leash on it. Place and moderation are key to tongues being useful vs being foolish. And being foolish with God’s gifts is never a good idea.
C
Let's not be ignorant my friends. We do not need Jesus Christ "and something else" to be saved or to be Christians. Jesus Christ is sufficient alone for salvation. The Bible teaches us that there are different gits of the spirit, and not everyone will have the same gifts. Personally, I don't believe in the charismatic belief of speaking in tongues, but I know many, many, many Christians who do not speak in tongues. Don't try to confuse anyone that you must speak in tongues to be a Christian, nor that you need Jesus Christ and "speaking in tongues", or "anything else" to be saved. That is false preaching.
C
If a person feels he/she has the gift of speaking in tongues, then it is to be used alone at home in private. Apostle Paul said it is better to have 5 words in a language you understand, than 100 words in a language you don't. Speaking the word of God is for the edification and uplifting of all, not in a tongue that nobody understands. I do not believe you have to speak in tongues for salvation. That is false preaching.
C
Actually, they do believe that, or they believe that people who do NOT speak in tongues, are second class Christians and have missed out on being baptized with the Holy Spirit. I have talked to quite a few people of different denominations who claim to speak in tongues. They believe it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit to speak in tongues, and if you do not do this, you are not truly God's child. Nothing is further from the truth. I have been baptized with the Holy Spirit as well as water, and I do not speak in tongues, and I will not accept this kind of false teaching from anyone, no matter what their religion is. This is saying that we need Jesus Christ and "something else" to be truly His. This is false preaching.
Well said Cino - Just as with any other cultic practice those who speak in gibberish evade pointed questions.
The question to ask these deceived people is where is it written that Jesus did this. The answer is that Jesus never spoke in gibberish - so why do they?
They will evade that question and through misdirection the conversation will end up somewhere else every time.
Brian
The question to ask these deceived people is where is it written that Jesus did this. The answer is that Jesus never spoke in gibberish - so why do they?
They will evade that question and through misdirection the conversation will end up somewhere else every time.
Brian
So you see that speaking in tongues is a sign, not for believers, but for unbelievers. Prophecy, however, is for the benefit of believers, not unbelievers. !Cor14:22-26[TABLE="class: table_bible"]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
1Cr 14:25[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, "God is truly here among you." [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
1Cr 14:26[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]Well, my brothers and sisters, let's summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]But if all of you are prophesying, and unbelievers or people who don't understand these things come into your meeting, they will be convicted of sin and judged by what you say. [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]As they listen, their secret thoughts will be exposed, and they will fall to their knees and worship God, declaring, "God is truly here among you." [/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: td_bible_6_buttons, width: 57, align: left"]
[/TD]
[TD="class: td_bible_verse_heading, width: 68, align: left"]
[TD="class: td_bible_text"]Well, my brothers and sisters, let's summarize. When you meet together, one will sing, another will teach, another will tell some special revelation God has given, one will speak in tongues, and another will interpret what is said. But everything that is done must strengthen all of you. [/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Hi damombomb -
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/tongues.php
[video=youtube;Ap42KDndMqg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap42KDndMqg&list=TLvsO7tC_keX8[/video]
Here is the reason I can say that.
Respectfully - Brian
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/tongues.php
[video=youtube;Ap42KDndMqg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ap42KDndMqg&list=TLvsO7tC_keX8[/video]
Here is the reason I can say that.
Respectfully - Brian
You left out the reason for the signs. Verse 20: [SUP]20 [/SUP]And they went out and preached everywhere, the Lord working with them and confirming the word through the accompanying signs. Amen.
Today we have the confirmed Word, the Holy Bible. Can God still use tongues in this manner, Yes, but does He? IMO, it is not the norm, since His Word is firmly established and His workers go out as missionaries (some learned of language already).
Today we have the confirmed Word, the Holy Bible. Can God still use tongues in this manner, Yes, but does He? IMO, it is not the norm, since His Word is firmly established and His workers go out as missionaries (some learned of language already).