Do Dispensationalism and Free-will Salvation question God's providence?

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Mammachickadee said:
Yes, they question His sovereignty as well.
Dispensationalism (very profusely debated lol) gives the impression (to my understanding and opinion) that God had to change His methods to suit the particular "age" He was working with. This questions God's providence because God is not inconsistent... what was good 5 millenea ago is good for today. God provides forgiveness and consequences alike with the same result throughout history: death for disobedience, reward for obedience.
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Once again, you show that you do not understand dispensationalism to any significant degree - even though I clarified a number of points that for some reason you seem to have ignored.

I have never known any dispensationalist who believes what you think they believe.
 
djames1958 said:
Once again, you show that you do not understand dispensationalism to any significant degree - even though I clarified a number of points that for some reason you seem to have ignored.

I have never known any dispensationalist who believes what you think they believe.
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I still hold to my current understanding of it until I can see evidence to the opposition. :-) I'm sure you understand. Good to know, however, that my explanation on free-will salvation was well defined, though. ;-)
 
I have encountered at least three persons on CC since last posting here who believe that the sacrifices were required for salvation. In essence this is saying that the act of sacrifice was what saved them... something that directly conflicts with verses in Romans about no works being required, thus making such a notion an impossibility. To say such a thing as sacrifices was required would also mean that only the Jews (those who performed the sacrifices according to covenant) could be saved in the Old Testament times... also something that one cannot possibly account for in the Bible.
 
I agree with mammachickadee.

God works for and through covenant for his people. Covenant, is how God deals with his people, Old and New.. God works in History (His - story, past, present and future) for His people through covenant and not dispensations, or atleast dispensations as 'Dispensationalists' see it.

Free will does not exist - in as far as we cannot do anything outside of our nature, we can freely choose but it will always be according to who we are, and where are heart is!

Dispensationalist, although they are our dear brother and sisters.. have got it wrong, yes it may be popular in books and films and makes for exciting reading, ut the bible does not teach it. People often get confused between dispensationalism and 'historic' premillenialism, but they are different. Dispensationalists took 'historic' premiillenialism and added sheer fiction.
 
Mammachickadee said:
I have encountered at least three persons on CC since last posting here who believe that the sacrifices were required for salvation. In essence this is saying that the act of sacrifice was what saved them... something that directly conflicts with verses in Romans about no works being required, thus making such a notion an impossibility. To say such a thing as sacrifices was required would also mean that only the Jews (those who performed the sacrifices according to covenant) could be saved in the Old Testament times... also something that one cannot possibly account for in the Bible.
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I don't doubt that there are many people who wrongly think this - and my guess is that this is just as true among non-dispensationalists as dispensationalists for the average person in the pew.

I was specifically talking about dispensational theologians, Bible teachers, etc. I doubt you will find any dispensational teacher from the last 75 years who has taught this. If you do find any, please let me know.
 
phil36 said:
I agree with mammachickadee.

God works for and through covenant for his people. Covenant, is how God deals with his people, Old and New.. God works in History (His - story, past, present and future) for His people through covenant and not dispensations, or atleast dispensations as 'Dispensationalists' see it.

Free will does not exist - in as far as we cannot do anything outside of our nature, we can freely choose but it will always be according to who we are, and where are heart is!

Dispensationalist, although they are our dear brother and sisters.. have got it wrong, yes it may be popular in books and films and makes for exciting reading, ut the bible does not teach it. People often get confused between dispensationalism and 'historic' premillenialism, but they are different. Dispensationalists took 'historic' premiillenialism and added sheer fiction.
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Of course God works through covenants - the biblical covenants as clearly stated in Scripture - Noahic, Abrahamic, Mosaic, Land, Davidic and New Covenants - and these are reflected precisely in the dispensations. This is opposed to the two or three (depending on who you ask) theological covenants of Covenant theology. The question might be who has the more biblical covenant theology? It is an unfortunate false dichotomy that has arisen from misunderstood labels.

It is quite easy to say "the Bible does not teach it" - it is quite another to biblically refute it. There have been volumes written on both sides of the issue - so no one would expect you to biblically refute or defend either position here. However, such a general gloss as that statement is obviously intended to suggest that there can't even be a biblical case made for it. Although I disagree with Covenant theology, I could argue for it biblically as a case can be made. At the same time, it must honestly be admitted that a case can also be made for Dispensational theology. I believe that the Bible most consistently does affirm and teach dispensational theology - and so we disagree. And I believe I can more convincingly demonstrate that the Bible doesn't teach Covenant theology - and could thus just as easily affirm "the Bible does not teach it" - but you have to admit that's a fairly reductionist statement.
 
That's not even a starter or an issue.

It's very easy to dispute Covenant theology - especially if you try to start with something like that.
 
Hello to three of my best new friends, You guys and gal ,keep popping up in my mind. It will be a great joy to meet ,one of these days/ years. djames ,I'm thinking you must be same one with whom I talked to a few wks. ago. I sure long to be back in Chestertown and have a cup coffee at the Pottersville dinner at the old Glen Dale inn or Park,, ??? my memory is fading. My old friends, Roger Howe, Jimmie Magee, and Bob Gray could be found there for breakfast , across from the old Gambles Hardware store, which is also a restaurant now. After my wife died I stepped out for breakfast alot. Paul Bubar has sold the Wells House , But Tom Devol is still there across the road. My brother,Richard, lives up the Stone Bridges Rd. and my "little" brother ,Randy, still operates the body shop, just before the Northway ramp,going north. djames, you moved away, but .I'm sure you recall the old friends of Word Of Life and the some town people. We four should discuss the Theme of the Bible that ties the whole Bible together: I will give you my take on it: God's etemal covenant of Grace. I am showing my part cov. Theo. and I add, part of me is Dispensational. Of course, we are about to enter into the last Dispensation, Jesus rule over the nation of Israel and the whole world, and of course, the Church of all ages will be Glorified and rule with Jesus. I forget what Mama and Phil hold,with the Millennium, but I'm sure djames believes in the 1,000 yrs we will reign with our King Jesus. djames remember me to our friend, Jimmy DeYoung. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug Roberts
 
To phil36 I take it you don't believe that Israel will rebuild their temple . You will have to eat those words soon. Y0U will very embarrassed soon. the man of sin will make a cov. ,treaty, (reaffirm it) with Israel and the Arabs; and Israel will build their temple. All the "Pre-Tribbers" will be embarrassed . The Rapture is at the middle of the 70th wk. of Daniel. Hoffco
 
Something is about to happen to the Muslim nations around Israel, and they will ask for a peace treaty, so they are not all wipe out by Israel. but only for 7yrs, because they want time to finish their atomic bomb so the can wipe Israel. out. I think the peace maker will be from Egypt, the "king from the South", he will face the wrath of Russia and China and muslim nations, and he will march North to Israel to defend her, But at that moment Jesus returns and wipes out the invading armys and ,Jesus raptures the church ,leaving the world a mess, on fire, so Satan enters the "peace maker", and He turn into the "antichrist" and declares himself to be God,in the temple. then all hell brakes out with God's wrath and the wrath of the antichrist against Israel. For what it is worth, this is my opinion. Love to all Hoffco
 
The sun is rising in the East, all is peaceful here in Golden hills, Soon the busy feet will fill my home with laughter and joy. God has been good to me. I am in need of much prayer, for the providence of God to keep smiling on me. My accuser has not summed me for a court trial as of yet. I have no sufficient resources but God ; But "just give me Jesus" as Ann Graham Lotts says so well. I have been praying for you all on CC. God bless you all. Love to all, Hoffco. "Joy comes in the mourning", and/but, I will welcome each peaceful morning and evening that GOD gives me.
 
I received good new on Sunday . My Accuser came to my house and settled with me ,out of court, for 10,000 peso. This was a good thing, now I can put that behind me. And hopefully I learned a lesson, never shout in public, and call someone a"lying bastard". Next time I will whisper it. LOL The man was an opportunist and took advantage of the law. God gave him work, so He was in a hurry to settle and get to his new job, 3 hrs away, that after noon. They are building a small shopping mall. The rebels had already kidnapped two of their workers, for 300,000 peso. I hope God keeps him alive long enough to save him. All my retirement is going in to our mission work . I love the work here with the poor. Love to all ,Hoffco
 
It is my opinion that a student of the Bible would not be very serious or truthful, if they don't study the covenants of God and the different dispensations of God's making; Both are key to understanding the Bible. I see the good and the bad in all of these systems of theology. My daily habit is to listen to SONGTIME USA and weekly to John MacArthur and John Pipper. Wed. is songtimes prophecy day. Jimmy DeYoung of PROPHECY TODAY, is usually on Wed. Today, John Nedar presented the possibility of the antichrist being a Muslim, Nedar gave very good points to lead us to believe that the "man of sin", antichrist could be a Muslim, he is not yet convinced, but a little open. Dr penticost and Dr. Showers and Adam Miller gave their Pre Trib. view. The biggest error of the Pre-Trib. rapture is the interpretation of the Seals as the Wrath of God after the rapture. For me, the seals are church/world history, up to the rapture, with the wrath of God beginning in ch.7. this is more in keeping with the Gospels and the outline of Revelation. SONGTIME USA .com is easy to find and interesting to listen to. Dr. Nedar has a great program on the family on Fridays. Love to all, Hoffco, Doug
 
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