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No matter where you stand on the Godhead it is error to think that Jesus Had a beginning when Scripture and our Lord Himself said " I AM " , before Abraham was I am" The deity of Christ is scriptural = deity means God so His birth from the natural mind is how one would see his birth however , this is why we have word like Incarnation, trinity, rapture ect. the concept are supported in scriptures that is where we form our doctrine or teaching from the Word of God.
John 8v24 states:
"Therefore I said to you, You shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins." (Wuest)
In John 8v24 "I AM" in Greek is "egoó eimi" and is a reference to Exodus 3v13-15 (with Deut 32v39, Isaiah 43v10, John 8v28,58, 13v19) where the pre-incarnate Christ reveals Himself to Moses as "EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" (Hebrew), Who is also called Yahweh and Elohim (Exodus 3v4), so in John 8v24 (with Isaiah 43v11), the Lord Jesus was telling His listeners that if they did NOT believe that He was God, the Great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they would indeed die in their sins, failing to be saved.
In the same Chapter He again tells His listeners that He is none other than the Eternal Lord Glory, Who appeared unto Abraham. Gen 15 (all), John 8v58
So, you people who say that it is not necessary to believe that Christ is the Eternal Lord of Glory, Who is God, to be saved (from one's sins) are quite simply wrong!
"Therefore I said to you, You shall die in your sins, for if you do not believe that I AM, you shall die in your sins." (Wuest)
In John 8v24 "I AM" in Greek is "egoó eimi" and is a reference to Exodus 3v13-15 (with Deut 32v39, Isaiah 43v10, John 8v28,58, 13v19) where the pre-incarnate Christ reveals Himself to Moses as "EHYEH ASHER EHYEH" (Hebrew), Who is also called Yahweh and Elohim (Exodus 3v4), so in John 8v24 (with Isaiah 43v11), the Lord Jesus was telling His listeners that if they did NOT believe that He was God, the Great I AM, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, they would indeed die in their sins, failing to be saved.
In the same Chapter He again tells His listeners that He is none other than the Eternal Lord Glory, Who appeared unto Abraham. Gen 15 (all), John 8v58
So, you people who say that it is not necessary to believe that Christ is the Eternal Lord of Glory, Who is God, to be saved (from one's sins) are quite simply wrong!
J
know what i'm gonna just show you the scriptures and let you decide 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. [h=3]1 John 5:7[/h]
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[h=3]John 1:1-14[/h]
lets go back to genesis to see the beginning of the Word
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[h=3]Genesis 1:3[/h]
that Same Word The very Beginning was the Word right there, what was the first word god said? all i can do is show you what the scripture is saying
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
[h=3]John 1:1-14[/h]
lets go back to genesis to see the beginning of the Word
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
[h=3]Genesis 1:3[/h]
that Same Word The very Beginning was the Word right there, what was the first word god said? all i can do is show you what the scripture is saying
Josh
Don't let these people rob you of your simple faith by their human rationalisations. Jesus said:
'I praise you Father, Lord of Heaven and earth because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to little children'
These people are puffed up with what they think they know and consider themselves wise and learned, many of them understand the Greek, Hebrew, so they believe they know more than others less acacademically minded than themselves.
They have to overturn/ignore the plain text of scripture, to do that they will, try and embroil you in senseless, arguments/debate of human rationalisations, no one in truth can learn the spiritual that way.
They remain silent as to why the ministers don't preach from the pulpit what they relentlessly preach on the internet(only a few thank goodness)
I am afraid they are wise in their own eyes only with their demands that are not demanded in scripture. There is a good reason we are only required to believe Christ is the son of God to be saved. If these people bemoan the fact many do not believe Christ is God Himself and complain they have wrong teaching/understanding, why don't they blame their ordained Trinitarian ministers for not preaching from the pulpit what they demand here? That of course is too painful a reality for them to face, so they ignore it and carry on with their Phariseeical judgementalism. They are blind guides leading the blind, nuff said
Don't let these people rob you of your simple faith by their human rationalisations. Jesus said:
'I praise you Father, Lord of Heaven and earth because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned and revealed them to little children'
These people are puffed up with what they think they know and consider themselves wise and learned, many of them understand the Greek, Hebrew, so they believe they know more than others less acacademically minded than themselves.
They have to overturn/ignore the plain text of scripture, to do that they will, try and embroil you in senseless, arguments/debate of human rationalisations, no one in truth can learn the spiritual that way.
They remain silent as to why the ministers don't preach from the pulpit what they relentlessly preach on the internet(only a few thank goodness)
I am afraid they are wise in their own eyes only with their demands that are not demanded in scripture. There is a good reason we are only required to believe Christ is the son of God to be saved. If these people bemoan the fact many do not believe Christ is God Himself and complain they have wrong teaching/understanding, why don't they blame their ordained Trinitarian ministers for not preaching from the pulpit what they demand here? That of course is too painful a reality for them to face, so they ignore it and carry on with their Phariseeical judgementalism. They are blind guides leading the blind, nuff said
J
It's One God in different administrations only One not 3 in One there is no where in the bible that states he is 3 in 1 it is always One God For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, [h=3]1 Timothy 2:5[/h]
J
.. i was accused of believing in a heresy because of what i showed them and i never once said anything about anyone or accuse anyone like that all i did was show them what i was saying through the Bible, it's just like the pharisees back in the day when Jesus was on earth, " how dare you preach something that goes against what i preach"
Josh
I told you yesterday. They will malign you, they will make out you believe what you do not believe, they will not respond to the plain text on this subject, but try and drag you into senless debate/rationalisation to take you away from the plain text.
They have losdt connection with the one who leads into truth, for they refuse to accept the Holy Spirit breathed words of scripture as to what you must believe to be saved, they add to it, no one being led of the Spirit could do that
I told you yesterday. They will malign you, they will make out you believe what you do not believe, they will not respond to the plain text on this subject, but try and drag you into senless debate/rationalisation to take you away from the plain text.
They have losdt connection with the one who leads into truth, for they refuse to accept the Holy Spirit breathed words of scripture as to what you must believe to be saved, they add to it, no one being led of the Spirit could do that
Revelation 1:8 - "I am the Alpha and Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."
Revelation 1:17-18 - "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: 'Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys to death and Hades.' "
Revelation 21:6-7 - He said to me: 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirst I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son."
Revelation 22:12-13,16 - Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.....I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
1.) God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega and the Beginning and the End."
2.) Jesus says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega and the Beginning and the End."
3.) Jesus is God.
If you were on a deserted island with just the Bible, there is NO WAY you could come up with the conclusion that Jesus was not God. It's only when the perverted thoughts of men are intertwined and combined with people who do not look at the whole of scripture (comparing scripture with scripture) that such false conclusions spread. For if Jesus were not God, you are still in your sins because NO MAN can die for another man's sins.
Revelation 1:17-18 - "When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: 'Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys to death and Hades.' "
Revelation 21:6-7 - He said to me: 'It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirst I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life. He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son."
Revelation 22:12-13,16 - Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.....I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."
1.) God says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega and the Beginning and the End."
2.) Jesus says, "I am the Alpha and the Omega and the Beginning and the End."
3.) Jesus is God.
If you were on a deserted island with just the Bible, there is NO WAY you could come up with the conclusion that Jesus was not God. It's only when the perverted thoughts of men are intertwined and combined with people who do not look at the whole of scripture (comparing scripture with scripture) that such false conclusions spread. For if Jesus were not God, you are still in your sins because NO MAN can die for another man's sins.