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Well as I have just replied to you, obviously you now believe a person need not believe Christ is God Himself to be a Christian/saved, for you have admitted you believe what Christ said about his Father. If you want to go on I will, but I am correct here, aren't I, lets have no misunderstanding
You now believe a person can be a Christian without having to believe Christ is God Himself, you've changed your opinion on this
You now believe a person can be a Christian without having to believe Christ is God Himself, you've changed your opinion on this
Well you see, I am confused, you've just written that you accept what Christ said about the Father, you believe it to be true
Christ plainly stated the Father is the only true God, yet now you say I am silly to believe you would accept those words of Christ(I imagine) For although you accept Christ's words as true, the Father is the only true God, you appear to still be insiting a person believes Christ is God Himself to be a Christian/saved. I don't understand Phil, can you explain your thinking here please
Christ plainly stated the Father is the only true God, yet now you say I am silly to believe you would accept those words of Christ(I imagine) For although you accept Christ's words as true, the Father is the only true God, you appear to still be insiting a person believes Christ is God Himself to be a Christian/saved. I don't understand Phil, can you explain your thinking here please
OK
Maybe I didn't put it clearly enough, my fault I am sure. You have just stated you believe what the Son said about the Father.
Christ plainly stated the Father was the only true God. Now if you believe those words of Christ, and you don't believe Christ is the Father, why are you insisting a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved?
You either believe what Christ stated about the Father(as you have said you do) or you don't.
If you do believe it, how can you insist a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved?
I am sure everyone reading this will believe I have put the question in a way you can easily understand and respond to
Maybe I didn't put it clearly enough, my fault I am sure. You have just stated you believe what the Son said about the Father.
Christ plainly stated the Father was the only true God. Now if you believe those words of Christ, and you don't believe Christ is the Father, why are you insisting a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved?
You either believe what Christ stated about the Father(as you have said you do) or you don't.
If you do believe it, how can you insist a person believes Christ is God Himself to be saved?
I am sure everyone reading this will believe I have put the question in a way you can easily understand and respond to
Hi Josh
I won't discuss this with those who refuse to answer your questions and just wish to condemn you, but to me the answer is pretty simple. The Fathers prescence, fully exists in the Son. Now some people(scholars and theologians) have reasoned that to mean Christ is God Himself, for the Father's prescence is fully in him.
Others simply believe what scripture plainly states. Both sides believe the Father fully exists in the Son, but because some do not refer to Christ as God Himself, they are told they're condemned
As I say, thank goodness these people are in a tiny minority, don't think they are a reflection of the majority of Trinitarians, they are not, I know, I've been to their churches for many decades, most of them are nice, non judgemental people
I won't discuss this with those who refuse to answer your questions and just wish to condemn you, but to me the answer is pretty simple. The Fathers prescence, fully exists in the Son. Now some people(scholars and theologians) have reasoned that to mean Christ is God Himself, for the Father's prescence is fully in him.
Others simply believe what scripture plainly states. Both sides believe the Father fully exists in the Son, but because some do not refer to Christ as God Himself, they are told they're condemned
As I say, thank goodness these people are in a tiny minority, don't think they are a reflection of the majority of Trinitarians, they are not, I know, I've been to their churches for many decades, most of them are nice, non judgemental people
Phil.
You said Those who deny the words of Christ as to who he is cannot be a Christian.
It surely follows then that those who deny who Christ said the Father is cannot be Christians either(I am simply using your logic)
Phil, you know less truth than Josh that really matters, and you have been a Christian far longer, but he relies on the Holy Spirit for truth, you don't. And those who don't can spend as long as they like in study, they'll never truly understand what is most important, for they rely on themselves to learn, not the one who leads into truth. It results in pride and condemnation of the innocent
You said Those who deny the words of Christ as to who he is cannot be a Christian.
It surely follows then that those who deny who Christ said the Father is cannot be Christians either(I am simply using your logic)
Phil, you know less truth than Josh that really matters, and you have been a Christian far longer, but he relies on the Holy Spirit for truth, you don't. And those who don't can spend as long as they like in study, they'll never truly understand what is most important, for they rely on themselves to learn, not the one who leads into truth. It results in pride and condemnation of the innocent
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If you cannot call me by my name Phil, how do I know who you are talking to?
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”[SUP]14 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
That was enough of a response for Jesus Phil. He didn't ask Peter to explain about force, dualism, Trinity, oneness or anything else. Maybe you think Jesus was wrong not to ask Peter to go more deeper into it so he was sure he fully understood who he was, I guess you do
Well it may not be enough for you Phil, but it was for Jesus, and that's good enough for me
Now I know, that because you can't respond to any of my questions you'll just come back with more of your own, but fair Trinitarians will see in our discussion who has answered questions, and who has constantly refused to
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, “Who do people say the Son of Man is?”[SUP]14 [/SUP]They replied, “Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.
That was enough of a response for Jesus Phil. He didn't ask Peter to explain about force, dualism, Trinity, oneness or anything else. Maybe you think Jesus was wrong not to ask Peter to go more deeper into it so he was sure he fully understood who he was, I guess you do
Well it may not be enough for you Phil, but it was for Jesus, and that's good enough for me
Now I know, that because you can't respond to any of my questions you'll just come back with more of your own, but fair Trinitarians will see in our discussion who has answered questions, and who has constantly refused to
Anyome who is reading will see that you will not openly admit what you believe about Jesus..
Isnt that true silas? why not just be honest.. you see I know you believe he is the son of God, but do you believe he is God.
So can you be a man, and answer.. who and what is Jesus, what does son of God mean.
Isnt that true silas? why not just be honest.. you see I know you believe he is the son of God, but do you believe he is God.
So can you be a man, and answer.. who and what is Jesus, what does son of God mean.
Oh I've answered plenty of times you just do not have eyes to see. As for being a man comment, please Phil, grow up a little.
Christ stated he was the Son of God
He stated the Father was the only true God
He stated the Father was greater than he and greater than all
John stated that if anyone believed Jesus was the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)
Paul tells us that we have one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.
Now Phil, where is your scripture that states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, be a Christian?
You know I have never studied theology as you have. I don't know the Greek, but here I am an ordinary fella who isn't too bright, and I'm responding to your questions, whereas you cannot answer any of mine can you
Christ stated he was the Son of God
He stated the Father was the only true God
He stated the Father was greater than he and greater than all
John stated that if anyone believed Jesus was the Son of God, God lives in him and he in God(they are saved)
Paul tells us that we have one God, the Father and one Lord Jesus Christ.
Now Phil, where is your scripture that states a person must believe Christ is God Himself to be saved, be a Christian?
You know I have never studied theology as you have. I don't know the Greek, but here I am an ordinary fella who isn't too bright, and I'm responding to your questions, whereas you cannot answer any of mine can you
You I remember debating a while back with a guy called 'Livingbygrace' he wrote just like you, had the same way of latching on to nontrinitarias, heckled from the sideines until even they found out what he believed.
h yes he also gave the poor me act... I am hard done by, I am just an un learned man.
For someone who proclaims to be not so bright and just an ordinary fella, your very clever at hiding your belif about Jesus, you say you know the Trinitarian view..well you must if you don't agree with it.. so the 'tears in the eyes, poor me' does not wash. your a manipulative deceiver!
You do not believe Jesus is God.
h yes he also gave the poor me act... I am hard done by, I am just an un learned man.
For someone who proclaims to be not so bright and just an ordinary fella, your very clever at hiding your belif about Jesus, you say you know the Trinitarian view..well you must if you don't agree with it.. so the 'tears in the eyes, poor me' does not wash. your a manipulative deceiver!
You do not believe Jesus is God.
But you plainly stated you believe what Christ said about the Father Phil
And he said the Father was the only true God, they are Christ's words not mine
As for Trinitarians, some of my friends are Trinitarian. We get on great, no problems at all.
Are you saying I'm the only person who doesn't agree with your man made demands? it seems so as you seem to think no one else apart from an LBG would have such opinions of mine. Most of Christendom has my belief, not yours, for the ministers don't tell them otherwise and they don't study theology as you and a few others do
As for calling me a manipulative deceiver, that's par for the course as you cannot answer the questions put to you
BTW
I'm giving you my beliefs straight from the Bible, yours are full of contradictions as is plain for all to see
And he said the Father was the only true God, they are Christ's words not mine
As for Trinitarians, some of my friends are Trinitarian. We get on great, no problems at all.
Are you saying I'm the only person who doesn't agree with your man made demands? it seems so as you seem to think no one else apart from an LBG would have such opinions of mine. Most of Christendom has my belief, not yours, for the ministers don't tell them otherwise and they don't study theology as you and a few others do
As for calling me a manipulative deceiver, that's par for the course as you cannot answer the questions put to you
BTW
I'm giving you my beliefs straight from the Bible, yours are full of contradictions as is plain for all to see