Difference between God and Jesus

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silas42

Banned
#741
Aug 22, 2013
275
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#741
phil36 said:
Hi silas,

Please don't be angry.. I just want to understand your position.

WHy won't you simply state what you believe..

lets start with the father.. who is he and what is god?
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I thought so. This is the problem isn't it. You spend your life in theological study because you revel in doing so, its what you enjoy, you don't do it because you love God, or to please him, just because it gives you great pleasure. Unfortunately it is not Holy Spirit led, otherwise you wouldn't condemn the innocent.
It is rather Phariseeical I am afraid. Try not to let pride get in the way, that's my advice, and try not to make a god out of theological study, otherwise you'll never understand what is truly important
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#742
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
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#742
phil36 said:
1 Corinthians 15:28, "And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all." Jesus is a man (1 Tim. 2:5). He is eternally a High Priest after the order of Melchizedek so that He can eternally offer intercession for us (Heb. 7:25). As a man He would eternally be subject to the One He calls His Father. This is a result of His humility that resulted in our redemption. This is consistent with the doctrine of the Hypostatic Union which states that within the one person of Christ are two natures: human and divine. (quoted from carm.org, they say it a lot better than I would.)
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The reality is, human or not, he always has been, and always will be, subject to the one true GOD. He is the form and expression of GOD. Form and expression are not equal to essence, but they are all one.
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#743
Jul 28, 2012
9,144
614
113
70
Alabama
#743
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The reality is, human or not, he always has been, and always will be, subject to the one true GOD. He is the form and expression of GOD. Form and expression are not equal to essence, but they are all one.
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How do you determine this?
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#744
Feb 12, 2009
8,276
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#744
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The reality is, human or not, he always has been, and always will be, subject to the one true GOD. He is the form and expression of GOD. Form and expression are not equal to essence, but they are all one.
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So your saying that Jesus is NOT share the same essence as the Father.. if he is only and expression of the one being the you are saying he is not the being. therefore not God. I think you misunderstand what Godhead is.
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
#745
#745
Lol where off again quick run for cover phils on the look out for worms, imho. i have to go to work and i have some more valid reasons understanding the trinity so just a quick one, I have been trying to work something out,

In the bible aron the high priest had to put a blanket in front of him so he could not see the father, i believe that it was the father in the holy temple, or though i could be wrong, so pleas go easy on me lol and dont bite my head of phil, i need air the worm hole has got hot lol, now what was the reason for aron not seeing the father, ? well some where in the bible it says no man has seen the father in his true form, and i believe that is because the flesh is wicked, so the the father would just simply burn it, if the flesh came into contact with the father,

Ok now to my next point when the spirit came to mary, surly it must have been in some form that would not harm mary, so it would not have been the father, am i right ? it would of been the son? am i right ?
now as the son grew, Jesus it would of been god in a form that we could see him so not only all those that saw where able to touch him etc but also the flesh of Jesus was not burnt, and this i feel is why Jesus stated the Father is the only true God and am i right,?

Now if it says n the bible phil that if you believe Jesus is the son of god then god will live in you, (are you not saved at this point ?)

So why can you admit you where wrong by what you said, that you can not be saved if you dont believe Jesus is god.

do you see phil at this point your already saved.
 
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phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#746
Feb 12, 2009
8,276
2,126
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#746
Quickfire said:
Lol where off again quick run for cover phils on the look out for worms, imho. i have to go to work and i have some more valid reasons understanding the trinity so just a quick one, I have been trying to work something out,

In the bible aron the high priest had to put a blanket in front of him so he could not see the father, i believe that it was the father in the holy temple, or though i could be wrong, so pleas go easy on me lol and dont bite my head of phil, i need air the worm hole has got hot lol, now what was the reason for aron not seeing the father, ? well some where in the bible it says no man has seen the father in his true form, and i believe that is because the flesh is wicked, so the the father would just simply burn it, if the flesh came into contact with the father,

Ok now to my next point when the spirit came to mary, surly it must have been in some form that would not harm mary, so t would not have been the father, am i right ? it would of been the son? am i right ?
now as the son grew, Jesus it would of been god in a form that we could see him so not only all those that saw where able to touch him etc but also the flesh of Jesus was not burnt, and this i feel is why Jesus stated the Father is the only true God and i am right,?

Now if it says n the bible phil that if you believe Jesus is the son of god then god will live in you, (are you not saved at this point ?)

So why can you admit you where wrong by what you said, that you can not be saved if you dont believe Jesus is god.

do you see phil at this point your allready saved.
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Hi quickfire,

Maybe you could help me please.. I do not understand silas, can you help.

who is the Father and who is god that I can believe in him..and who and what is jesus ,whom the Father sent.

Thanks for your help in this. very much appreciated.

God bless
 
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silas42

Banned
#747
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#747
HeRoseFromTheDead said:
The reality is, human or not, he always has been, and always will be, subject to the one true GOD. He is the form and expression of GOD. Form and expression are not equal to essence, but they are all one.
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They have a huge problem with their belief of economic and ontological Trinity
For Paul clearly states there WILL come a time in the future when Christ becomes subject to God

According to them, Paul cannot be speaking of the economic Trinity, for in that sense they believe Christ is now and always has been subject to the Father, neither can it be the ontological sense, for in that regard they believe it is impossible
So in what way do they believe Christ WILL become subject to the Father when all has been defeated including the last enemy death?
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#748
Feb 12, 2009
8,276
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#748
silas42 said:
They have a huge problem with their belief of economic and ontological Trinity
For Paul clearly states there WILL come a time in the future when Christ becomes subject to God

According to them, Paul cannot be speaking of the economic Trinity, for in that sense they believe Christ is now and always has been subject to the Father, neither can it be the ontological sense, for in that regard they believe it is impossible
So in what way do they believe Christ WILL become subject to the Father when all has been defeated including the last enemy death?
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Hi silas,

can you help me then please. if the trinity is wrong,

can you tell me who the father is, who is god, and who or what is jesus, who then father sent.
Thank you so much for your help in advance

God Bless
 
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silas42

Banned
#749
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#749
phil36 said:
Hi quickfire,

Maybe you could help me please.. I do not understand silas, can you help.

who is the Father and who is god that I can believe in him..and who and what is jesus ,whom the Father sent.
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#
You know Phil, you do rather prove my point. Because your theology seems rather weak you are unable to respond to what is placed before you, so how do you react? With insincerity and untruthfulness. As I have said. Making a god out of theological study will never help you where it matters, as you are showing here, and not just to me
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
#750
#750
phil36 said:
Hi quickfire,

Maybe you could help me please.. I do not understand silas, can you help.

who is the Father and who is god that I can believe in him..and who and what is jesus ,whom the Father sent.

Thanks for your help in this. very much appreciated.

God bless
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Im not in the business of answering for others unless i feel that the person s being picked on,

so can you answer my last post because this has gone on long enough over 3 threads when i very first asked you.

REMEMBER i did say you have your ways i have mine i left it there, That was the end of it for me, so ok its started again in this thread for one reason and another so can you finaly put it to bed please,
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#751
Feb 12, 2009
8,276
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#751
silas42 said:
#
You know Phil, you do rather prove my point. Because your theology seems rather weak you are unable to respond to what is placed before you, so how do you react? With insincerity and untruthfulness. As I have said. Making a god out of theological study will never help you where it matters, as you are showing here, and not just to me
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My last word to you silas:

“As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly” Proverbs 26:11

I pray that you learn from it.
 
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silas42

Banned
#752
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#752
phil36 said:
My last word to you silas:

“As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly” Proverbs 26:11

I pray that you learn from it.
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I'll quote from proverbs too(and the same chapter)

Do you see a person wise in their own eyes?
There is more hope for a fool than for them
Proverbs 26:12
 
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HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#753
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
#753
oldhermit said:
Originally Posted by HeRoseFromTheDead


The reality is, human or not, he always has been, and always will be, subject to the one true GOD. He is the form and expression of GOD. Form and expression are not equal to essence, but theyare all one.
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How do you determine this?
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Which part?
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#754
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
691
113
#754
phil36 said:
So your saying that Jesus is NOT share the same essence as the Father.. if he is only and expression of the one being the you are saying he is not the being. therefore not God. I think you misunderstand what Godhead is.
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Define essence...
 
phil36

phil36

Senior Member
#756
Feb 12, 2009
8,276
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#756
Quickfire said:
Im not in the business of answering for others unless i feel that the person s being picked on,

so can you answer my last post because this has gone on long enough over 3 threads when i very first asked you.

REMEMBER i did say you have your ways i have mine i left it there, That was the end of it for me, so ok its started again in this thread for one reason and another so can you finaly put it to bed please,
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Hi Quickfire,

Silas was not being bullied, and it easy for any one to see. infact if you think I was bullying him please report it.

Ok which post if it is your no 745 post, its not worth an answer.
 
S

silas42

Banned
#757
Aug 22, 2013
275
1
0
#757
Quickfire said:
Im not in the business of answering for others unless i feel that the person s being picked on,

so can you answer my last post because this has gone on long enough over 3 threads when i very first asked you.

REMEMBER i did say you have your ways i have mine i left it there, That was the end of it for me, so ok its started again in this thread for one reason and another so can you finaly put it to bed please,
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I weasn't being pickerd on, Phil just reacted as he always does when he cannot respond to the scripture placed before him(which as we all know is most of the time)

We have to bear with him, it can't be easy for someone who wants to be seen as knowledgeable of the faith having to evade responding to so many points as he does
 
HeRoseFromTheDead

HeRoseFromTheDead

Senior Member
#758
Sep 4, 2012
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#758
oldhermit said:
That form and expression are not equal to essence.
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Which is your essence? Your soul or your body that dies and returns to dust? Your body is merely the form and means by which your soul (your essence) expresses itself to creation. They are not the same, yet they are both you.
 
Q

Quickfire

Guest
#759
#759
I could be wrong but ive got a feeling that 2 people are the same person here on this thread phil ? ill leave it now,
no point in researching and speaking with you if you just answer my questions with a question, you might like going round in circles but i dont,
 
oldhermit

oldhermit

Senior Member
#760
Jul 28, 2012
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#760
silas42 said:
Are you and Phil brothers? At least I addressed your questions, you ignored the important ones of mine. I'm not gonna give you theological extrapolation, just the plain words of Christ concerning eternal life

Now this is eternal life(notice what eternal life hinges on believing) that they may know you(the Father) the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent
John17:3

There's the direct answer, which as far as I am concerned makes all of your failed extrapolations of scripture null and void
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You are trying to weigh all other texts against this text and you cannot do that. The other scriptures are just as inspired as this text is yet, you ignore them outright. I do not deny the truth of Jn. 17:3 yet, you deny the truth of all the other inspired texts. You are trying to pit one scripture against the other. The scriptures are not in conflict with one another. What is in conflict is your understanding and treatment of them. And NO you did not respond to the John 1 text. You chose not to even answer the statements at the bottom of the post which leads me to believe you did not even read the post.
 
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