Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rituals when they know Jesus?

[Hizikyah]

This guy definitly skips some facts to further his agenda, I am not saying the prople he is accusing are not doing the same, but he is doing what he is accusing others of.

"These very same names and titles were chosen by the Jewish translators of the Greek Septuagint when transliterating the Names Yehoshua/Yeshua to Iesous over two hundred times, and the title Mashiyach from the Hebrew to their chosen Greek equivalent of Christos all thirty nine times that it appears in the text. These are the same Greek names that are rendered in the English versions of the New Testament as Jesus and Christ.[SIZE=+1] "

Which of the Greek gods were NOT called christos?



"[/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]John 5:43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you do not receive Me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive that one." [/SIZE][/SIZE]

He is using this as a witness against the Name Yahshua, but Jesus is not his real Name, so to call someone else out and then ALSO use a false name is foolish.

Lets says Yahshua is a false name, how could you use this verse and then say Jesus is ok even though you admit thats not His actual Name?

 

[Hizikyah]

Yeah your scholar is full of non-sense, "[SIZE=+1]I thought it rather odd that Michael Rood would quote from the KJV in light of the fact that it contains the word "Easter" (Acts12:4), which was one of the words and holidays discussed by him that [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]he was attempting to expose as being pagan in origin[/SIZE][SIZE=+1]. Because of what appeared to be an apparent contradiction in standards, I felt that this needed to be verified before proceeding any further."[/SIZE]

This guy says Easter is not pagan, Yahshua did not even rise on Sunday, and yes Easter is an ancinet fertility right ISHTAR/EOSTRE, Constantine incorperated it. Ham is eaten because Tammuz (the SUN god) was killed by a boar on Easter Sunday, so the Bablonians ate ham. Also the dying of eggs comes from, well that to gross to talk about here but yeah this guy wants to hold on to tradition. I Will take truth over comfort anyday. Eggs, bunnies and ham have nothing to do with Yahshua, Yahshua is the Passover Lamb not the Easter ham. All this non-sense comes from Babylon.

 

[zone]

שָׁוְא [SIZE=+1]noun [masculine][/SIZE] [SIZE=+1]emptiness, vanity[/SIZE]; — ׳שׁ — [SIZE=+1]1[/SIZE] emptiness, nothingness, vanity:

By removing His Name you MAY be taking it in vain.


Yeremyah 12:14-17, "This is what Yahweh says against all My evil neighbors who touch the inheritance which I have caused My people Israyl to inherit: Behold, I will pluck them up from off their land, and I will pluck up the house of Yahdah from among them. And it will come to pass, after I have plucked them out, that I will return and have compassion on them, and bring them back; everyone to his aheritage and everyone to his land. And it will come to pass, if they will
diligently learn the ways of My people, to vow by My Name, saying; As surely as Yahweh lives--as they once taught My
people to vow by Baal; (Lord)--then they will be established in the midst of My people. But if they do not obey, I will utterly pluck up and destroy that nation, says Yahweh."

BAAL (DEITY) [Heb ba˓al (בַּעַל )]. Canaanite storm and fertility god. The name, which means “lord, ” is an epithet of the god Hadad (lit. “thunderer” ). Well-known from the OT, he is now extremely well-attested in the Ugaritic texts, in addition to being mentioned in other ancient texts.
Freedman, David Noel: The Anchor Bible Dictionary. New York : Doubleday, 1996, c1992, S. 1:546

BA´AL (bāʹal; Heb. ba˓al, “lord, possessor”).
1. A common name for god among the Phoenicians; also the name of their chief male god. See Gods, False.
Unger, Merrill Frederick ; Harrison, R. K. ; Vos, Howard Frederic ; Barber, Cyril J. ; Unger, Merrill Frederick: The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Rev. and updated ed. Chicago : Moody Press, 1988

Baal (Heb. ba˓al) DEITY
The Canaanite storm- and fertility-god. As an epithet for various West Semitic deities, especially Hadad, the name means “lord,” designating a legal state of ownership or social superiority. With the obvious exception of Yahweh, Baal is the most significant deity in the OT.
Freedman, David Noel ; Myers, Allen C. ; Beck, Astrid B.: Eerdmans Dictionary of the Bible. Grand Rapids, Mich. : W.B. Eerdmans, 2000

BAAL [BAY uhl] (lord, master) — the name of one or more false gods, a place, and two people in the Old Testament:
1. A fertility and nature god of the Canaanites and Phoenicians. Also see Gods, Pagan.
Youngblood, Ronald F. ; Bruce, F. F. ; Harrison, R. K. ; Thomas Nelson Publishers: Nelson's New Illustrated Bible Dictionary. Nashville : T. Nelson, 1995

Facts are facts you can talk about IDOLS and such, but that has noting to do with me. I stand on facts. If I m mistaken I am open to correction if it is TRUTH.

JUST YES OR NO

ARE YOU CLAIMING JESUS IS A PAGAN NAME/BA'AL?

 

[Hizikyah]

JUST YES OR NO

ARE YOU CLAIMING JESUS IS A PAGAN NAME/BA'AL?

First I didn't claim anything, I post some reputible Bible Dictionaries the show BAAL means LORD.

As far as Jesus, all I can stay from my studies is it is not his actual Name, I have read thigs saying Iosus means hail Zeus in greek, however I have heard reputible people say it souds similar but it has no connection. I have no concrete answer for MYSELF on that topic, all I can say is it is not His actual Name. The letter "J" is not even 1000 years old.

Tell me has this prophecy come true?

Yaermyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal (Lord)."

How about ALL that other stuff we talked about?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

THE MOASRITES ADDED VOWEL POINTS WITH CHANGED SOME WORDS.

If you would like to see an interesting example of this, click the Azal link in my signature.

 

[Hizikyah]

If you would like to see an interesting example of this, click the Azal link in my signature.

GREAT example of how a change here or there can completely change the writings.

Very interesting. This is the kind of depth we need to look into. (Also I wonder how the "J" writings compare

 

[zone]

First I didn't claim anything, I post some reputible Bible Dictionaries the show BAAL means LORD.

and? so what?
all the false deities were called master or lord of this or that or god of this or that.
so what?

Acts 2:36
"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah."

kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.

2962 kýrios – properly, a person exercising absolute ownership rights; lord (Lord).

[In the papyri, 2962 (kýrios) likewise denotes an owner (master) exercising full rights.]

As far as Jesus, all I can stay from my studies is it is not his actual Name, I have read thigs saying Iosus means hail Zeus in greek, however I have heard reputible people say it souds similar but it has no connection. I have no concrete answer for MYSELF on that topic, all I can say is it is not His actual Name. The letter "J" is not even 1000 years old.

so you don't trust the Greek New Testament?
was it actually written in greek or is there some other theory?

as for J
it's English, dear.
you're speaking English here on this forum.
some peoples are unable to pronounce J
some are unable to pronounce Y.

God ordained and gave us languages.
is there something unclean about greek?
or english?
or spanish?
serious?

Tell me has this prophecy come true?
Yaermyah 23:26-27, "How long will this be in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies? Yes, they are prophets of the deceit of their own minds; Who devise; plan and scheme, to cause My people to forget My Name through their dreams, which they tell every man to his neighbor, just as their fathers have forgotten My Name for Baal (Lord)."

that whole passage is about false prophets prophesying things God never told them.
it's not about the people forgetting God's Name.
it's forgetting or forsaking the true God!

"as their fathers forsook the worship of my name, and swore by the name of idols.'' - Targum

They "think" to make My people utterly to forget Me. But I will oppose to those dreamers my true prophets. - JFBBC

Which think to cause my people to forget my name,.... The Septuagint and Arabic versions render it, "my law". - Gill

but you really seem to want this to be about a rediscovered sacred name that is the key to your salvation.
i've heard all this before.
it's a distraction at best.

 

[zone]

As far as Jesus, all I can stay from my studies is it is not his actual Name, I have read thigs saying Iosus means hail Zeus in greek, however I have heard reputible people say it souds similar but it has no connection. I have no concrete answer for MYSELF on that topic, all I can say is it is not His actual Name.

Iosus means hail Zeus - is ridiculous.

you said you're not even sure the names you use for Jesus are His "real" name
struggling to see the point, really.

 

[XianCatalyst]

Scripture addresses this problem only as concerning whether the gentiles had to stop doing things like eating pork and do such things as being circumcised. Do you think scripture says it is wrong to worship in this way?

Please don”t post over and over that these things don’t save. We all know that. The Jews who knew Christ knew that. James the Just, brother of Christ was head of the Christians in Jerusalem, and James certainly knew that. That isn’t the question. The question is whether they are forbidden by God to worship that way.

Psalm 110 states He is a priest forever of the order of Melchizedek. That's a Messianic statement, I.E., it refers to the CHrist.
Melchizedek was High Priest to God Most High, and the King of Peace (Salem).
The Christ is High Priest to God Most High and is called the Prince of Peace. (go figure.)

Christ's church is not a continuation of the Jewish people's promises. Those were made to them, to set them apart from the world. The world that Mel was High Priest of, did not have JEWS nor GENTILES in it.

Now, if you try to hold the Church today to Jewish covenantal laws, errr you ignore that Christ's Church is established of an order that had no laws, nor Jews nor Gentiles.

Thus Paul said, in Him there are no Jews or Gentiles.

The Jews were given the rules, to show they were different from the rest of the world. They had to be set apart to be holy, that's what it means, "to be set apart". There had to be laws to show how they were apart from the rest.

They were set apart as holy, so one who was holiest among them could be born. Our Messiah was that man. By those laws, he was the holiest of a holy people. Errr you might say the Holy of Holies.

When He died on the cross, and that blood was spilled and that water with it, the purpose for those laws was fulfilled. The holy of holies has been identified and fulfilled His purpose. Thus, "it is finished".

That doesn't mean the Jewish people are any less special in God's eyes, they are an awesome people who carried an awesome burden for all of mankind. And mankind repays them with more abuse than any other race. Through those fires they are made strong.

So, the New Church, of Jesus who is the Christ, established in the Order of Melchizedek, is a Church that exists before there were Jews, Gentiles, or Jewish law.

I hope that is good for ya and gives you things to think about.

 

[Hizikyah]

Iosus means hail Zeus - is ridiculous.

you said you're not even sure the names you use for Jesus are His "real" name
struggling to see the point, really.

In what post did I say that?

I said "Lets says Yahshua is a false name, how could you use this verse and then say Jesus is ok even though you admit thats not His actual Name?"

This was clearly for sake of arguement as the topic was your scholar. I said I don't know about the Zeus thing:

QUOTE "As far as Jesus, all I can stay from my studies is it is not his actual Name, I have read thigs saying Iosus means hail Zeus in greek, however I have heard reputible people say it souds similar but it has no connection. I have no concrete answer for MYSELF on that topic, all I can say is it is not His actual Name. The letter "J" is not even 1000 years old."

So how about all the other things I talked about that you ignored, dropped them keep trying to find holes here and there.

You know we should probably just stop this, we disagree, this is unfruitful.

 

[RedTent]

We have two kinds of posters. Some like to talk about the God they love, they listen to everything this God has to say, and like to reason with others about it. Sometimes they differ with others about what God wants from them.

There are others who use this forum to work against God. It is like reading C S Lewis Screwtape Letters to read their posts. They use the words of our dear Lord to work against God. God says to work, they say God says work is all legalism so ignore anything else about work. God says He has protected us from death by the law so it will not kill us. They say the law has nothing to do with us we should ignore it, God says we aren't under it so ignore law. God says we should follow the Holy Spirit to the law. They say that we should only follow the Holy Spirit, any other way to knowing law is wrong, ignore God. We say we think something another says isn't quite right, they say they command all to only know what they know of God, anything else is others going to hell.

 

[Praus]

Well, if you hate God's Law and refuse to obey it, you have to justify it somehow. The most common method is to call obedience "legalism".

It's called legalism because ... it's legalism.

Ro 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. 9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if [there be] any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

(you must say it with a disdainful smirk for maximum effect)

Wow what amazingly detailed, well thought out scriptural exegesis on the subject. You have the nerve to accuse anyone else of spam?

Ro 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. 2 But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. 3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

 

[presidente]

[SIZE=+1]
Which of the Greek gods were NOT called christos?

Which of the false Greek gods were not called 'theos', yet the Bible uses that word to designate Yahweh? The false gods of the Canaanites were also referred to as elohim. This word is also used to designate our Lord.

"

[/SIZE][SIZE=+1][SIZE=+1]John 5:43 I have come in the name of My Father, and you do not receive Me. If another comes in his own name, you will receive that one." [/SIZE][/SIZE]

He is using this as a witness against the Name Yahshua, but Jesus is not his real Name, so to call someone else out and then ALSO use a false name is foolish.

[SIZE=+1]Is there[/SIZE] any evidence in all of Hebrew writings up through the time of the writing of the New Testament for the existence of the name "Yahshua"? Isn't that a made-up name designed by people who don't know Hebrew who think the 'Yah' should be in the name, even though in reality, it wasn't pronounced that way at the beginning of the name. From what I've read, the Lord's name was pronounced as Yeshua or Yeshu (check out the name on the ossuary his brother's bones were kept in) or maybe Yehoshua, which is basically the same name in Hebrew thought.

 

[Hizikyah]

It's called legalism because ... it's legalism.

Yahshsua, Shaul and Yahchanan must be legalists then

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices breaking the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws.
For this is the llove of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

 

[Hizikyah]

Isayah 65:15, "And the names of your gods will remain as a trap, to My chosen; for Yahweh our Father will slay you, but
he will give His servants a Name that will remain forever."

This is a warning to all of us, myself included

 

[RedTent]

It's called legalism because ... it's legalism ?

No, the definition of the word law is not legalism. Legalism is a noun that is, when it is referring to law, a method of handling law. It has nothing to do with defining law, itself.

There are many nouns in our language, and ways of managing whatever the noun is. The item the word is identifying and the method of managing that item never have the same meaning. One is a method, the other is an object.

 

[Praus]

Iosus means hail Zeus - is ridiculous.

you said you're not even sure the names you use for Jesus are His "real" name
struggling to see the point, really.

You might have missed the post where Jupiter = Jew Peter. Brother Hizikyah is a rather prolific writer.

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...tuals-when-they-know-jesus-7.html#post1165701

I don't know how Jew is written in latin as I know nothing about latin, I do know however satan is tricky and is beyond the human mind, therefore My whole point is IM NOT TAKING ANY CHANCES IF I KNOW SOMETHING MIGHT BE WRONG, not worth it to me. What is Jew in latin, I can learn something here

 

[presidente]

First I didn't claim anything, I post some reputible Bible Dictionaries the show BAAL means LORD.

I got to know some sacred namers here. This one woman thought it was wrong to call God 'Lord' because Baal also translates as Lord. That's totally messed reasoning. Rejecting a name based on back translation? I don't believe Baal is lord? Do you? They also called Baal an el. Does that mean we can't call God Elohim or El-Elyon? It makes no sense at all. God called Abram Sarah's ba'al when He gave Abimelech a dream to warn him.

The sacred name lady I mentioned had also apparently done 'research' from this free online book. The book pointed out that dictionaries say that Lord comes from a phrase meaning 'ward of the loaf' or something like that. But then the book started pointing to all these Germanic words that used 'Lor' in them that were used in contexts to refer to pagan gods. It was just guesswork etymology with no linguistic approach to the derivations. Just our word sounds a little like this ancient Germanic word. I've studied a bit of historical Linguistics, and the section of the book I read was clearly full of bunk. Even if the word from which 'Lord' derived was used to refer to pagan deities in certain context, that doesn't render the word unusable. Ugarites called the head of their pantheon who got drunk and fell in his own excrement according to their writings, 'el.' That doesn't mean we can't call God El-Elyon.

As far as Jesus, all I can stay from my studies is it is not his actual Name, I have read thigs saying Iosus means hail Zeus in greek, however I have heard reputible people say it souds similar but it has no connection.

I wouldn't put any trust in a book that says. Sigma and Zeta are different letters.

I would not put Don Richardson in the same category as bunk authors, but he's not a historical linguist. I can respect people who have labored in Papua and have won souls. But in Eternity in Their Hearts, he wrote that the word for theos derived from the word for Zeus. I asked one of my professors in college who was a Proto-IndoEuropean expert about this. He quickly told me that this was not the case, and that Zeus was believed to have derived another PIE word. He could tell me the words, what they meant, and if I'd asked, I'm sure he could have written out the theoretical derivation on the board. It's theory, but at least it's based on principles of sound changes that have been shown to be true in real languages.

I have no concrete answer for MYSELF on that topic, all I can say is it is not His actual Name. The letter "J" is not even 1000 years old.

If God had the name of Jesus transferred into another language the way that language pronounces it, doesn't that set a precedent for us?

We don't know exactly how our Lord's name was pronounced from scripture, but we do have scripture that shows us it was pronounced something like /ye sews/ (using American phonetics, not IPA).

 

[reject-tech]

He doesn't care how we pronounce His name.

Love God
Love others
Try to stop sinning

That's His name.

 

[presidente]

And no Yehoshua is a mistranslation from using VOWEL POINTS just like Jehovah or Yehowah is a mistranslation, before the VOWEL POINTS EXISTED it was NEVER pronounced that way.

Based on what do you argue this? Why would they mess up the vowel points to make the name Yehoshua if they were okay with the sound at the end of the word in the names of various prophets (we know in English as Elijah and Isaiah for example.) No one got rid of the word Hallelujah. They did not point it as Halleluyeho, did they?

What happend is the Talmudists/Rabbis/Pharisees put the ban on the name and pronounced Adonai and Elohim instead of Yahweh, and wrote it in their scripture with vowel points, then when latin speaking men came along hundreds of years later they did not know the vowel points were ADDED, thus you got: (Hebrew never had vowels)

That's where the word 'Jehovah' comes from. If you know Hebrew, you can see that the vowels don't match up with the letters if you try to read the sacred name with the vowel pointings in the Masoretic text. A 15th century Italian monk made the word Yehovah out of this.

But where is the evidence that they changed the pronunciation of Yehoshua. Why would they if they would keep the 'Yah' part of the name in the last syllable of names.