Does God expect the Jews to stop Jewish rituals when they know Jesus?
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WHY did the witch summon ELOHIM from the grave from Saul.
Was that God most high in your understanding? Cause most folks don't think she summoned God but a "ghost" of some sort. BUT IT USES ELOHIM, plural. WHICH BTW, if you do your homework, the word is used in the singular AND the plural. Same as PANTS, EYEGLASSES, SHEEP, FISH. Pedantics aren't faith.
Was that God most high in your understanding? Cause most folks don't think she summoned God but a "ghost" of some sort. BUT IT USES ELOHIM, plural. WHICH BTW, if you do your homework, the word is used in the singular AND the plural. Same as PANTS, EYEGLASSES, SHEEP, FISH. Pedantics aren't faith.
B
uh El means God. Did you know Allah is Arabic for God as well? Did you know if you live in a Arabic speaking country that the Christian can use the name Allah for God because it means God? It's not limited to just Muslims you know? Did you know Muslims even use the English name god? But wait I thought God was a name only Christians and Jews used??? Wrong...just as the word God can be used by different religions, so can El since it means God in Hebrew. Please study as well...
B
Look, El means god, so just because pagans used it doesn't mean the name El is invalid. Otherwise you better stop using the word "God" because I heard Muslims in America are calling Allah, god, instead of Allah. So just because Muslims use the name god, does the word God no longer proper for us Christians to use? C'mon really?
Yes, of course--Iēsous explains exactly what it means to love your neighbor in the parable of the Good Samaritan.
Luke 10:29 But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34 and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 On the next day he took out two [o]denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36 Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?” 37 And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.” (NASB)
It's from the Levitical law in the Old Testament.
Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. (NASB)
Clearly loving your neighbor is very important.
Luke 10:29 But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
30 Jesus replied and said, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31 And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32 Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33 But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34 and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35 On the next day he took out two [o]denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.’ 36 Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers’ hands?” 37 And he said, “The one who showed mercy toward him.” Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do the same.” (NASB)
It's from the Levitical law in the Old Testament.
Lev 19:18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the sons of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself; I am the LORD. (NASB)
Clearly loving your neighbor is very important.
It was known even BEFORE Enosh: (you didnt read my post, it was in your quote
Genesis 4:26, "And as for Seth, to him also a son was born; and he named him Enosh. It was then that the Name of Yahweh began to be invoked again."
Known from the beginning
Why does the beginning of Genesis use the name Elohim?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Bryan, I mentioned Elohim being the witch's summoned spirit in the bible.
What you came back with had nothing to do with the comment.
If you count 'Elohim' and various names like 'El-Elyon', 'El-Shaddai', etc. and the use of the word in Hebrew names like Israel and Daniel, the word 'El' shows up throughout the Bible. It is used like the English word 'god' or the Greek word 'theos' to refer to either the true God or to false gods, depending on the context. It is not Yahweh's personal name, but it is a word used to refer to Him.
Take caution about what? This talks about Baal worship, not the use of the word 'El' to refer to God.
In the myth, Adonis was human, but that's junk etymology. The BIBLE calls God Adonai in different places. The word wasn't used only for deity. Sarah called Abraham her adonai, and God called him her ba'al, but neither were in reference to false deities. The use of Adonai is legitimate since God is called that in scripture, apart from the Jewish tradition of substituting the name of Yahweh with the word Adonai when reading.
And I have never heard of them substituting the sacred name with the word Elohim. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. But do you have any evidence of that? If I recall correctly, e and a are pretty much the same thing in Hebrew, though there are long and short vowels. So I think you can arrive at the pronunciation 'Jehovah' if you account for the fuzziness of the v versus w sound in both Ashkenazic Hebrew, Latin, Italian, and European languages, the development of the initial J in English over time, and the Hebrew vowels for 'Adonai' without their having to have used the vowels for Elohim.
There are some cults that even misuse the holy name of God. Let's suppose some irrationally bold unbeliever started using the sacred name to refer to himself or to someone else. Would that mean you could no longer use the divine name?
In the time of Noah, Yahweh was Eloah. Yahweh was Elohim. I don't know whether Noah spoke Hebrew, Proto-Semetic, or some pre-Babel Adamic language. At some point, idolatry got introduced. Then men turned from the true God to the worship of created things, like Romans 1 tells us. For pagan Ugarits, they took the name 'El' and created the concept of the head of their pagan pantheon. Was Ba'al even considered to be his son at that time, or was that imported in later? I don't remember the details. Ba'al eventually became the head of Canaanite pantheons in their false pagan belief systems. The Ugaritic 'El' was a false concept of god. But that doesn't mean the good name which they ascribed their false beliefs too, could not be used anymore. And we don't know if Ugaritic religion truly depicted Canaanite religion by the time of Abraham.
What we do know is that the king of Salem who worshipped El-Elyon, God Most High, and Abraham thought enough of him to give him tithes. Some people think Melchizedek was a Theophany or Christophany. Another interpretation is that he was the king of what is now Jerusalem, and that he typified Christ. But apparently, Abraham perceived that this particular El-worship as legitimate worship of Yahweh.
As for Bethel, Jacob named Bethel in Genesis 28, so I take the reference related to Abraham as anachronism.
I tend to agree with you that God was known as Yahweh to the patriarchs and that the name was forgotten by the time of Moses, and that God was asking Moses was He not know by that name. The passage can be translated either as a statement or a question, apparently, but trying to read all the references to the sacred name as anachronistic descriptions seems to break down and makes the reading of Genesis somewhat unnatural.
But if God calls Himself something or reveals that we can call Him something, we certainly can. We can call God El-Shaddai or Adonai. The practice of the apostles was to translate these words into the target language and to use words like 'Theos' in Greek. We continue the tradition with the use of words like "God" in English.
Btw, why did you speak of Isray above. Did you not want to write out the 'el' in Israel. If God is okay with the use of the word, why would you not be? You can't be holier than Yahweh.
Take caution about what? This talks about Baal worship, not the use of the word 'El' to refer to God.
In the myth, Adonis was human, but that's junk etymology. The BIBLE calls God Adonai in different places. The word wasn't used only for deity. Sarah called Abraham her adonai, and God called him her ba'al, but neither were in reference to false deities. The use of Adonai is legitimate since God is called that in scripture, apart from the Jewish tradition of substituting the name of Yahweh with the word Adonai when reading.
And I have never heard of them substituting the sacred name with the word Elohim. I'm not saying it hasn't happened. But do you have any evidence of that? If I recall correctly, e and a are pretty much the same thing in Hebrew, though there are long and short vowels. So I think you can arrive at the pronunciation 'Jehovah' if you account for the fuzziness of the v versus w sound in both Ashkenazic Hebrew, Latin, Italian, and European languages, the development of the initial J in English over time, and the Hebrew vowels for 'Adonai' without their having to have used the vowels for Elohim.
There are some cults that even misuse the holy name of God. Let's suppose some irrationally bold unbeliever started using the sacred name to refer to himself or to someone else. Would that mean you could no longer use the divine name?
In the time of Noah, Yahweh was Eloah. Yahweh was Elohim. I don't know whether Noah spoke Hebrew, Proto-Semetic, or some pre-Babel Adamic language. At some point, idolatry got introduced. Then men turned from the true God to the worship of created things, like Romans 1 tells us. For pagan Ugarits, they took the name 'El' and created the concept of the head of their pagan pantheon. Was Ba'al even considered to be his son at that time, or was that imported in later? I don't remember the details. Ba'al eventually became the head of Canaanite pantheons in their false pagan belief systems. The Ugaritic 'El' was a false concept of god. But that doesn't mean the good name which they ascribed their false beliefs too, could not be used anymore. And we don't know if Ugaritic religion truly depicted Canaanite religion by the time of Abraham.
What we do know is that the king of Salem who worshipped El-Elyon, God Most High, and Abraham thought enough of him to give him tithes. Some people think Melchizedek was a Theophany or Christophany. Another interpretation is that he was the king of what is now Jerusalem, and that he typified Christ. But apparently, Abraham perceived that this particular El-worship as legitimate worship of Yahweh.
As for Bethel, Jacob named Bethel in Genesis 28, so I take the reference related to Abraham as anachronism.
I tend to agree with you that God was known as Yahweh to the patriarchs and that the name was forgotten by the time of Moses, and that God was asking Moses was He not know by that name. The passage can be translated either as a statement or a question, apparently, but trying to read all the references to the sacred name as anachronistic descriptions seems to break down and makes the reading of Genesis somewhat unnatural.
But if God calls Himself something or reveals that we can call Him something, we certainly can. We can call God El-Shaddai or Adonai. The practice of the apostles was to translate these words into the target language and to use words like 'Theos' in Greek. We continue the tradition with the use of words like "God" in English.
Btw, why did you speak of Isray above. Did you not want to write out the 'el' in Israel. If God is okay with the use of the word, why would you not be? You can't be holier than Yahweh.
Actually, El Shaddai was yl Shaddai, wl - yl meaning strong or mighty
The Encyclopedia Judaica,
Volume 7, pages 674-680
’El. The oldest Semitic term for God is ’el (corresponding
to Akkadian ilu(m), Canaanite ’el or ’il, and Arabic ’el as an
element in personal names). The etymology of the word is
obscure. It is commonly thought that the term derived from a
root ’yl or ’wl, meaning ‘‘to be powerful’’ (cf. yesh le-el yadi,
‘‘It is in the power of my hand,’’ Gen. 31:29; cf. Deut. 28:32;
Micah 2:1). But the converse may be true; since power is an
essential element in the concept of deity, the term for deity
may have been used in the transferred sense of ‘‘power.’’
any individual god as well as to divine beings in general; but it
is not employed as the personal name of any god. In Ugaritic
Canaanite, however, il occurs much more frequently as the
personal name of the highest god el than as the common noun
‘‘god’’ (pl., ilm; fem., ilt). In the Ugaritic myths El is the head of
the Canaanite pantheon, the ancestor of the other gods and
goddesses, and the creator of the earth and its creatures; but he
generally fades into the background and plays a minor role in the
preserved myths.
Like ’elohim, el can be employed in reference to an ‘‘alien god’’
(Deut. 32:12; Mal. 2:11) or a ‘‘strange god’’ (Ps. 44:21; 81:10).
’El ‘Elyon. The Hebrew word ‘elyon is an adjective meaning
‘‘higher, upper,’’ e.g., the ‘‘upper’’ pool (Isa. 7:3), the ‘‘upper’’
gate (II Kings 15:35), and ‘‘highest,’’ e.g., the ‘‘highest’’ of all the
kings of the earth (Ps. 89:28). When used in reference to God,
the word can rightly be translated as ‘‘Most High.’’ Since in
reference to God ‘elyon is never preceded by the article ha- (‘‘the’’),
it must have been regarded as a proper noun, a name of God.
Thus, it can be used as a divine name meaning ‘‘the Most High’’
(e.g., Deut. 32:8; Isa. 14:14; Ps. 9:3) or in parallelism with YHWH
(e.g., Ps. 18:14; 21:8; 83:18), El (Num. 24:16; Ps. 107:11), and
Shaddai (Ps. 91:1).
Among the Canaanites, ’El and ‘Elyon were originally distinct
deities, the former attested by archaeological evidence from Ugarit
in Western Syria, the latter by evidence from Phoenicia further
south. Later, both terms were combined to designate a single god
’El ‘Elyon. In the *Tell el-Amarna Letters of the 15th-14th centuries
B.C.E., the Canaanites called El Elyon ‘‘the lord of the gods.’’
’Eloha, ’Elohim. The word ’eloha ‘‘God’’ and its plural, ’elohim,
is apparently a lengthened form of ’El (cf. Aramaic ’elah, Arabic
’ilah).
More likely, however, it came from Canaanite usage; the early
Israelites would have taken over ’elohim as a singular noun just as
they made their own the rest of the Canaanite language. In the
Tell-el-Amarna Letters Pharaoh is often addressed as ‘‘my gods
[ilani’ya] the sun-god.’’ In the ancient Near East of the second
half of the second millennium B.C.E. there was a certain trend
toward quasi-monotheism, and any god could be given the
attributes of any other god, so that an individual god could be
addressed as ’elohai, ‘‘my gods’’ or ’adonai, ‘‘my lords.’’
The Encyclopedia Judaica,
Volume 7, pages 674-680
’El. The oldest Semitic term for God is ’el (corresponding
to Akkadian ilu(m), Canaanite ’el or ’il, and Arabic ’el as an
element in personal names). The etymology of the word is
obscure. It is commonly thought that the term derived from a
root ’yl or ’wl, meaning ‘‘to be powerful’’ (cf. yesh le-el yadi,
‘‘It is in the power of my hand,’’ Gen. 31:29; cf. Deut. 28:32;
Micah 2:1). But the converse may be true; since power is an
essential element in the concept of deity, the term for deity
may have been used in the transferred sense of ‘‘power.’’
any individual god as well as to divine beings in general; but it
is not employed as the personal name of any god. In Ugaritic
Canaanite, however, il occurs much more frequently as the
personal name of the highest god el than as the common noun
‘‘god’’ (pl., ilm; fem., ilt). In the Ugaritic myths El is the head of
the Canaanite pantheon, the ancestor of the other gods and
goddesses, and the creator of the earth and its creatures; but he
generally fades into the background and plays a minor role in the
preserved myths.
Like ’elohim, el can be employed in reference to an ‘‘alien god’’
(Deut. 32:12; Mal. 2:11) or a ‘‘strange god’’ (Ps. 44:21; 81:10).
’El ‘Elyon. The Hebrew word ‘elyon is an adjective meaning
‘‘higher, upper,’’ e.g., the ‘‘upper’’ pool (Isa. 7:3), the ‘‘upper’’
gate (II Kings 15:35), and ‘‘highest,’’ e.g., the ‘‘highest’’ of all the
kings of the earth (Ps. 89:28). When used in reference to God,
the word can rightly be translated as ‘‘Most High.’’ Since in
reference to God ‘elyon is never preceded by the article ha- (‘‘the’’),
it must have been regarded as a proper noun, a name of God.
Thus, it can be used as a divine name meaning ‘‘the Most High’’
(e.g., Deut. 32:8; Isa. 14:14; Ps. 9:3) or in parallelism with YHWH
(e.g., Ps. 18:14; 21:8; 83:18), El (Num. 24:16; Ps. 107:11), and
Shaddai (Ps. 91:1).
Among the Canaanites, ’El and ‘Elyon were originally distinct
deities, the former attested by archaeological evidence from Ugarit
in Western Syria, the latter by evidence from Phoenicia further
south. Later, both terms were combined to designate a single god
’El ‘Elyon. In the *Tell el-Amarna Letters of the 15th-14th centuries
B.C.E., the Canaanites called El Elyon ‘‘the lord of the gods.’’
’Eloha, ’Elohim. The word ’eloha ‘‘God’’ and its plural, ’elohim,
is apparently a lengthened form of ’El (cf. Aramaic ’elah, Arabic
’ilah).
More likely, however, it came from Canaanite usage; the early
Israelites would have taken over ’elohim as a singular noun just as
they made their own the rest of the Canaanite language. In the
Tell-el-Amarna Letters Pharaoh is often addressed as ‘‘my gods
[ilani’ya] the sun-god.’’ In the ancient Near East of the second
half of the second millennium B.C.E. there was a certain trend
toward quasi-monotheism, and any god could be given the
attributes of any other god, so that an individual god could be
addressed as ’elohai, ‘‘my gods’’ or ’adonai, ‘‘my lords.’’
Like ’elohim, el can be employed in reference to an ‘‘alien god’’
(Deut. 32:12; Mal. 2:11) or a ‘‘strange god’’ (Ps. 44:21; 81:10).
Exodus 3:15, "Yahweh also said to Mosheh: This also shall you say to the children of Israyl; YAHWEH, the Heavenly
Father of your fathers, the Mighty One of Abraham, the Mighty One of Isaac, and the Mighty One of Yaaqob, has sent
me to you. THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER-- and this is MY MEMORIAL: the Name by which I am to be remembered by, from generation to generation, for all generations."
I will stick To Yahweh, He says to call Him that.
(Deut. 32:12; Mal. 2:11) or a ‘‘strange god’’ (Ps. 44:21; 81:10).
Exodus 3:15, "Yahweh also said to Mosheh: This also shall you say to the children of Israyl; YAHWEH, the Heavenly
Father of your fathers, the Mighty One of Abraham, the Mighty One of Isaac, and the Mighty One of Yaaqob, has sent
me to you. THIS IS MY NAME FOREVER-- and this is MY MEMORIAL: the Name by which I am to be remembered by, from generation to generation, for all generations."
I will stick To Yahweh, He says to call Him that.
Hold on a minute there. You need to think through how you use references. If 'el is derived etymologically from yl, that does not mean that in reference to God, 'yl' was ever used. There is no reason to think, if this were true, that 'yl' ever referred to God. In their definition, it means to be powerful.
This statement was probably based on some historical linguistics reconstruction. If you believe in a literal six-day creation, a literal Babel, and a literal confusing of the languages, then that doesn't fit well with the idea of 'el deriving from yl thousands and thousands of years before Abraham.
The commentary you quoted said,
Good verses to legitimize the use of the word to refer to Yahweh.
That's unconvincing. If one is attested in one place, and another in another, how can they argue that they weren't considered to be the same? Is there no place where both are attested? Not that the details of paganism matter much.
Incidentally, Allah is allegedly a contraction of Al 'ilah. Al translates as 'the'.
The commentary says
The question is, do you take a secular view of history, or a Biblical one? The Biblical one is that all men alive today descended from Noah, who followed the true God. The worship of false gods evolved over time. The worship of the true God is the original 'religion.'
No doubt you bring valid points. I feel because the Scriptures tell us:
2 Kings 17:33-34, "They were taught how they might worship Yahweh, but instead they worshiped their own gods according to the customs of the nations from which they had been brought. To this day, they continue to practice their former pagan customs. They do not reverence Yahweh, nor do they follow the statutes, ordinances, Laws, and commandments which Yahweh had commanded the children of Yaaqob, whom He named Isray."
Isayah 65:15, "And the names of your gods will remain as a trap; test, to My chosen; for Yahweh our Father will slay you, but he will give His servants a Name that will remain forever."
And that source says "Among the Canaanites, ’El and ‘Elyon were originally distinct
deities."
And Abraham avoided the house of El:
Genesis 12:8, "And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he gpitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Also reasons I stated eariler and more, I feel better not using it.
(PS there is a Hebrew word pronounced Allah or like allah, that means to be corrupt or to become corrupt. And allah was the moon god before islam and the Ishmaelites wore gold crecent moons in the scriptures, just saying)
2 Kings 17:33-34, "They were taught how they might worship Yahweh, but instead they worshiped their own gods according to the customs of the nations from which they had been brought. To this day, they continue to practice their former pagan customs. They do not reverence Yahweh, nor do they follow the statutes, ordinances, Laws, and commandments which Yahweh had commanded the children of Yaaqob, whom He named Isray."
Isayah 65:15, "And the names of your gods will remain as a trap; test, to My chosen; for Yahweh our Father will slay you, but he will give His servants a Name that will remain forever."
And that source says "Among the Canaanites, ’El and ‘Elyon were originally distinct
deities."
And Abraham avoided the house of El:
Genesis 12:8, "And he went from there to the hill east of Beth El, and he gpitched his tent there; Beth El was to the west of him, and Ai was to the east. There he built an altar to Yahweh, and there he prayed with the Name of Yahweh."
Also reasons I stated eariler and more, I feel better not using it.
(PS there is a Hebrew word pronounced Allah or like allah, that means to be corrupt or to become corrupt. And allah was the moon god before islam and the Ishmaelites wore gold crecent moons in the scriptures, just saying)
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That's about the Samaritans, right?
They did not present the case for it, except that two groups used the two different names. Both are used to refer to Yahweh in scripture.
Where do you get that idea?
There is nothing there about avoiding Bethel, which wouldn't be named for a while, until after his grandson Jacob went there, had the dream, and set up a pillar and poured out oil as a sacrifice to the LORD. Then he called the place Bethel. I think you need to read Genesis more.
You don't have to, but God uses it to refer to Himself, so you can. 'El is not God's personal name, but it is a word used to refer to God in a number of contexts. How do you refer to the nation of Israel with you write? Do you talk about Isra...?
Do you think Elijah's name was a lie?
Which word. And is this 'sounds like' from the perspective of an American who doesn't know how to pronounce words correctly, or are we talking about cognate words?
Again, it's a similar situation to the use of words like 'El' and 'Elohim.' Those words are cognate with the Arabic words, but pagans used those words, even though the Bible uses them to refer to the true God.
I think you need to spend less time listening to or reading this unscholarly sacred name stuff and really dig into the Bible.
They did not present the case for it, except that two groups used the two different names. Both are used to refer to Yahweh in scripture.
Where do you get that idea?
There is nothing there about avoiding Bethel, which wouldn't be named for a while, until after his grandson Jacob went there, had the dream, and set up a pillar and poured out oil as a sacrifice to the LORD. Then he called the place Bethel. I think you need to read Genesis more.
You don't have to, but God uses it to refer to Himself, so you can. 'El is not God's personal name, but it is a word used to refer to God in a number of contexts. How do you refer to the nation of Israel with you write? Do you talk about Isra...?
Do you think Elijah's name was a lie?
Which word. And is this 'sounds like' from the perspective of an American who doesn't know how to pronounce words correctly, or are we talking about cognate words?
Again, it's a similar situation to the use of words like 'El' and 'Elohim.' Those words are cognate with the Arabic words, but pagans used those words, even though the Bible uses them to refer to the true God.
I think you need to spend less time listening to or reading this unscholarly sacred name stuff and really dig into the Bible.
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"Which word. And is this 'sounds like' from the perspective of an American who doesn't know how to pronounce words correctly, or are we talking about cognate words?"
I was not alive at that time so i cant say for sure it was pronounced taht way, if you know so much about ancient Hebrew, not this stuff with vowel points wouldnt you say there are some things about it even the scholars dont know? As even among them they disagree
I was not alive at that time so i cant say for sure it was pronounced taht way, if you know so much about ancient Hebrew, not this stuff with vowel points wouldnt you say there are some things about it even the scholars dont know? As even among them they disagree