Difference between God and Jesus

[XianCatalyst]

That s not the Trinitarian view.. 'together' is a conversation in the sidelines?? where on earth did you get that from



And the very fact that silas likes it will tell you it is not Trinitarian.. it is not orthodox.

It's not your orthodox perhaps. From what I see from the tone here, that can only be a good thing.

The trinity doctrine is "THEY ARE TOGETHER AND AND AND AND AND SEPARATE."

They are not together and solely one,

They are also individuals.

I GET THIS from the history of the Church. THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DOCTRINE FROM THE TIME THERE WAS A DOCTRINE.

if you choose to rewrite it, be kind enough not to refer to yourself as orthodox. That's like saying you bought a 59 Chevy NEW off the lot in 2014.

TOGETHER ALONE, GOD IS ONE JESUS IS GOD, THE SPIRIT IS GOD, and when you read it in the Bible you read it all as GOD is an abomination to scripture. It rewrites HIS WORDS for the human mind and puts a human editor on what He wrote.

Knock yourself out. BTW, Henry and Spurgeon would both agree with me on this, and I'd love to debate theology with BOTH of them. But on this we'd agree.

 

[silas42]

You and I do not see with the same eyes. But, since this is what you feel, then I cannot but take your word that this is how you see things. With that in mind, may I simply suggest to you and others that it is wise to do your best to overlook what you would consider to be "mean spirited/prideful or whatever other adjective you wish to describe others' words" and consider the overall message they are saying. Most of the time, if you take a breather, you will realize that the order of words or their usage will have a different meaning to that person than it does to you.

I was highly offended when someone first called me "dawg". But, I realize now that it means "friend". Perhaps, knowing that we are talking to another human, without judging them to be either this or that, then compassion will have her place.

Cfultz
I have let God down much in my life so I am not here pontificating. But I have to say, there are a few people on this website who have made a god out of theological doctrine, and it is not being led of the Holy Spirit and that is why you get the condemnation of others you do. And it is plainly obvious it is not truth led of the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit cannot lead anyone to condemn on the basis of others believing the words of Christ, it isn't even possible according to Trinitarian theology, think that through.
I'm afraid that some who have studied the most, minus the Spirit's leading have simply taken themselves to a place where they know far less actual truth than the average pew sitter who has done no more than read a couple of chapters of the bible a day. It is folly, to rely on oneself to learn and not the Spirit
Yes, you can revel in your pass time, that's fair enough, but to achieve living Spiritual truth that way, and truth that matters is just not possible. It is a tragic thing, to give so much effort for an academic knowledge which bypasses what is simple, living Spiritual truth
Well I've had my rant, nothing else for it but to put some on ignore, it isn't proper debating anyway, even the plain literal scriptures mean nothing on a subject to some, they have to give way to the theologising of man that overturns them, that's not the Christian discussion I seek

 

[XianCatalyst]

Well there you go..

I will stick to what the bible says . and not what you decide to call God.

Somehow you seem to have elected yourself to be the Sole arbiter of what the Bible says. :| Do you care to put that to the challenge? I'll be your huckleberry. I tell ya, someone needs to show you some humility because its a real conversation to kill to speak on a topic to discuss it, when someone thinks if they discern red is green it's so and anyone else is unorthodox.

The Spirit of God is names WIND by GOD and His Son on earth, as well as His people. The reason is, it's without form, you can't see it, taste it, feel it, hear it, smell it. HOWEVER, where it's been you can see how it's changed the landscape/lives of those around it.

The wind, has no smell, no taste, blah blah blah, you dont' feel the wind, you feel the air. The wind moves the air. You don't smell the wind, you smell what it carries. You don't. ohhhhhh never mind if you don't get it by now, you miss the point.

If you wish to insist on interpreting the Spirit as GOD, then you deliberately choose to confuse God's message as HE wrote it for MAN'S understanding. And I'd have to say, things like that is probably where your confusion started.

 

[XianCatalyst]

Why did you step in the conversation? You don't even know why I reference this...

The brother here is saying show me one verse that says you must believe Jesus is God to be saved. Please don't butt in without understanding...

maybe because you held it in public? I don't care why you referenced it. I made a theological ASIDE to give your statement balance.

If you dont' want me to butt in, don't say things in public that are misleading to the message of Christ/God/Bible, etc... it's not a sin centric religion. that's all, look up the word, "aside" and take the theatrical sense. If you want to have a conversation free of any one else seeing it and feeling a need to speak to it, hold it in private.

And the faith isn't about "being saved". It's about growth and change.

 

[XianCatalyst]

To live a godly live, one must know the will of the Father.

I know Christ to be the Son, accordingly, I walk His path.

If I say that Christ is not the son (God forgive me), then according to that knowledge I walk the path of death.

They die because of a lack of knowledge.

Ummmmm k.

Scripture says you get that knowledge from doing the works of love the church directs us to do, not from preaching. And that through those works we are taken to maturity. Maturity would understand the trinity in all important ways, and the word trinity, nor this discussion would ever enter a mature person's life.

It's irrelevant. It's us arguing about details of semantics, not living a life that matters.

If we don't live the life, it doesn't matter what you know.

If you live the life, you can know nothing and be good to go.

 

[cfultz3]

Cfultz
I have let God down much in my life so I am not here pontificating. But I have to say, there are a few people on this website who have made a god out of theological doctrine, and it is not being led of the Holy Spirit and that is why you get the condemnation of others you do. And it is plainly obvious it is not truth led of the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit cannot lead anyone to condemn on the basis of others believing the words of Christ, it isn't even possible according to Trinitarian theology, think that through.
I'm afraid that some who have studied the most, minus the Spirit's leading have simply taken themselves to a place where they know far less actual truth than the average pew sitter who has done no more than read a couple of chapters of the bible a day. It is folly, to rely on oneself to learn and not the Spirit
Yes, you can revel in your pass time, that's fair enough, but to achieve living Spiritual truth that way, and truth that matters is just not possible. It is a tragic thing, to give so much effort for an academic knowledge which bypasses what is simple, living Spiritual truth
Well I've had my rant, nothing else for it but to put some on ignore, it isn't proper debating anyway, even the plain literal scriptures mean nothing on a subject to some, they have to give way to the theologising of man that overturns them, that's not the Christian discussion I seek

In the same manner you say others condemn you, you, most likely unknowingly, have also condemned them. You say that they are Godless when you say that they have made head knowledge their god. You say that they are without the Spirit when you say that it is not from the Spirit.

To you and others, who are we to judge (condemn, sentence), seeing that there is but one Judge who holds judgment in His hands:

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above
Rom 10:7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)
Rom 10:8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;
Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

There is but one LORD, yet different administrations. The Father wills, the Word fulfills, the Spirit oversees.

 

[silas42]

In the same manner you say others condemn you, you, most likely unknowingly, have also condemned them. You say that they are Godless when you say that they have made head knowledge their god. You say that they are without the Spirit when you say that it is not from the Spirit.


There is but one LORD, yet different administrations. The Father wills, the Word fulfills, the Spirit oversees.

No, you're just letting yourself down. I've condemned no one and told no one on this website they can't be a Christian/are unsaved. I have said people don't rely on the Spirit to learn, but that isn't condemning someone.
,Much of the theology that people see as red lines on internet websites are not to God, of that I do know. Yep, people have made a god out of theology, but that does not mean they cannot still be saved, God is loving, merciful and compassionate and we all fall well short, as I know I do.

As for your last sentence, I wonder if it is me or yourself you are trying to convince

On that day there will be one Lord, and His name the only name
Zech14:9

 

[cfultz3]

Ummmmm k.

Scripture says you get that knowledge from doing the works of love the church directs us to do, not from preaching. And that through those works we are taken to maturity. Maturity would understand the trinity in all important ways, and the word trinity, nor this discussion would ever enter a mature person's life.

It's irrelevant. It's us arguing about details of semantics, not living a life that matters.

If we don't live the life, it doesn't matter what you know.

If you live the life, you can know nothing and be good to go.

Proverbs 3:13 Blessed is the human who found Wisdom and the mortal who looked upon moral insight (prudence).

If we following were Wisdom leads, (Proverbs 2:5) then we shall understand the fear of the LORD and find the acknowledgement of God.

Knowledge comes from the hearkening to the Spirit, and He leads into works of faith. Yet, it is not those works which matures, but: It is the LORD who gives wisdom (Proverbs 2:6).

You assume that those who debate the irrelevant semantics concerning who the Son is do nothing else but that. Surely, they do not spend all their time debating. I am sure if one would ask, they will find that they have acts of love in their life.

You say, "If you live the life, you can know nothing and be good to go". How would one know what that life is if they did not know what it is God require of those who walk in faith? How can one test a spirit to see if it is from God? How did Jesus tell others of the Old Testament if He did not learn and live it? How are we to tell others of the New Testament if we do not know it?

 

[cfultz3]

No, you're just letting yourself down. I've condemned no one and told no one on this website they can't be a Christian/are unsaved. I have said people don't rely on the Spirit to learn, but that isn't condemning someone.
,Much of the theology that people see as red lines on internet websites are not to God, of that I do know. Yep, people have made a god out of theology, but that does not mean they cannot still be saved, God is loving, merciful and compassionate and we all fall well short, as I know I do.

As for your last sentence, I wonder if it is me or yourself you are trying to convince

On that day there will be one Lord, and His name the only name
Zech14:9

My mistake....

Cfultz
I have let God down much in my life so I am not here pontificating. But I have to say, there are a few people on this website who have made a god out of theological doctrine, and it is not being led of the Holy Spirit and that is why you get the condemnation of others you do. And it is plainly obvious it is not truth led of the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit cannot lead anyone to condemn on the basis of others believing the words of Christ, it isn't even possible according to Trinitarian theology, think that through.
I'm afraid that some who have studied the most, minus the Spirit's leading have simply taken themselves to a place where they know far less actual truth than the average pew sitter who has done no more than read a couple of chapters of the bible a day. It is folly, to rely on oneself to learn and not the Spirit
Yes, you can revel in your pass time, that's fair enough, but to achieve living Spiritual truth that way, and truth that matters is just not possible. It is a tragic thing, to give so much effort for an academic knowledge which bypasses what is simple, living Spiritual truth
Well I've had my rant, nothing else for it but to put some on ignore, it isn't proper debating anyway, even the plain literal scriptures mean nothing on a subject to some, they have to give way to the theologising of man that overturns them, that's not the Christian discussion I seek

 

[silas42]

My mistake....

No problem, we all make them. Thanks for highlighting what you did, always good to restate it

 

[XianCatalyst]

Proverbs 3:13 Blessed is the human who found Wisdom and the mortal who looked upon moral insight (prudence).

If we following were Wisdom leads, (Proverbs 2:5) then we shall understand the fear of the LORD and find the acknowledgement of God.

Knowledge comes from the hearkening to the Spirit, and He leads into works of faith. Yet, it is not those works which matures, but: It is the LORD who gives wisdom (Proverbs 2:6).

You assume that those who debate the irrelevant semantics concerning who the Son is do nothing else but that. Surely, they do not spend all their time debating. I am sure if one would ask, they will find that they have acts of love in their life.

You say, "If you live the life, you can know nothing and be good to go". How would one know what that life is if they did not know what it is God require of those who walk in faith? How can one test a spirit to see if it is from God? How did Jesus tell others of the Old Testament if He did not learn and live it? How are we to tell others of the New Testament if we do not know it?

Prov 3 doesn't comment on where you find the wisdom. scripture says that is through works. Eph 4.

Prov 2 proves my point, leads into works of faith.

I don't assume anything. My comment was ONLY on what was assumed by you in the argument. I don't dare judge your over all worldly views and assumptions, I don't know you.

You can learn to be with God, without ever hearing His name or story. Albeit I'm guessing it would be somewhat harder, right?

There is no magic prayer, holy bath, or milk and cookies once a month combination that takes you to heaven. There is one thing only that is the sole arbiter of if you are there or not.

NASB 1 John 4:16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has [d]for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him. 17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world. 18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear [e]involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

GOD IS LOVE.
If you abide in love you abide in God. (likewise if you aren't abiding in love, you are not yet in God either.)
And God abides in him. (all contingent on that love lifestyle.... )

This is how Love is perfected in us, that we came to know, and believed that love. COME TO KNOW is not a knowledge word, it's an experience word. (know your wife for example.)

If you don't have the love right, you aren't going to heaven. The protestant church doesn't even teach what this love IS so I'm afraid it's Anti Christ. I'm protestant, yeah, I get how silly that is...

There is no fear in love.

If you have the love right, fear is gone.

You dont' fear punishment if you are mature,

If you aren't mature you fear punishment.

Those who focus on sin and not being punished for sin, and being forgiven of sin, EXUDE FEAR, and they were taught a FASCIST GOD. Look the word up.

God is love. You ignore the sins, and move to the goal. As you march to the goal you are taught the new walk by HIM, not by your abilities.

I guess I've got a whole different theology than most, but I'm word for word from the Bible with no dancin, and after years of trying to prove myself wrong, I'm afraid I'm stuck here.

 

[cfultz3]

Prov 3 doesn't comment on where you find the wisdom. scripture says that is through works. Eph 4.

Prov 2 proves my point, leads into works of faith.

I don't assume anything. My comment was ONLY on what was assumed by you in the argument. I don't dare judge your over all worldly views and assumptions, I don't know you.

You can learn to be with God, without ever hearing His name or story. Albeit I'm guessing it would be somewhat harder, right?

There is no magic prayer, holy bath, or milk and cookies once a month combination that takes you to heaven. There is one thing only that is the sole arbiter of if you are there or not.

NASB 1 John 4:16 We have come to know and have believed the love which God has [d]for us. God is love, and the one who abides in love abides in God, and God abides in him.17 By this, love is perfected with us, so that we may have confidence in the day of judgment; because as He is, so also are we in this world.18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear [e]involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.

GOD IS LOVE.
If you abide in love you abide in God. (likewise if you aren't abiding in love, you are not yet in God either.)
And God abides in him. (all contingent on that love lifestyle.... )

This is how Love is perfected in us, that we came to know, and believed that love. COME TO KNOW is not a knowledge word, it's an experience word. (know your wife for example.)

If you don't have the love right, you aren't going to heaven. The protestant church doesn't even teach what this love IS so I'm afraid it's Anti Christ. I'm protestant, yeah, I get how silly that is...

There is no fear in love.

If you have the love right, fear is gone.

You dont' fear punishment if you are mature,

If you aren't mature you fear punishment.

Those who focus on sin and not being punished for sin, and being forgiven of sin, EXUDE FEAR, and they were taught a FASCIST GOD. Look the word up.

God is love. You ignore the sins, and move to the goal. As you march to the goal you are taught the new walk by HIM, not by your abilities.

I guess I've got a whole different theology than most, but I'm word for word from the Bible with no dancin, and after years of trying to prove myself wrong, I'm afraid I'm stuck here.

Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

How do we find them (the Spirit speaking):

Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

Then, at the time:

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

 

[phil36]

It's not your orthodox perhaps. From what I see from the tone here, that can only be a good thing.

The trinity doctrine is "THEY ARE TOGETHER AND AND AND AND AND SEPARATE."

They are not together and solely one,

They are also individuals.

I GET THIS from the history of the Church. THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DOCTRINE FROM THE TIME THERE WAS A DOCTRINE.

if you choose to rewrite it, be kind enough not to refer to yourself as orthodox. That's like saying you bought a 59 Chevy NEW off the lot in 2014.

TOGETHER ALONE, GOD IS ONE JESUS IS GOD, THE SPIRIT IS GOD, and when you read it in the Bible you read it all as GOD is an abomination to scripture. It rewrites HIS WORDS for the human mind and puts a human editor on what He wrote.

Knock yourself out. BTW, Henry and Spurgeon would both agree with me on this, and I'd love to debate theology with BOTH of them. But on this we'd agree.

MMmm Spurgeon and Henry would both agree with you? And you would love to debate theology with both of them.

Well, since they are not here with us, I think you would maybe like to read what these 2 guys DID say.

And could you tell me what on earth this means: "I GET THIS from the history of the Church. THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DOCTRINE FROM THE TIME THERE WAS A DOCTRINE. "

 

[vic1980]

but tell me this everyone, god is eternal correct? which means he is without end or beginning, but look at this. 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:1-14


read it carefully to see what it is saying, God is Eternal. but we notice, in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god, and the word was god. and later down in the chapter we see that THE WORD was MADE FLESH. now Eternal means lasting or existing forever without end or beginning but we see that the word had a beginning and it was made flesh and was the only begotten son of the father now read this with an open mind not what you knew before or in some denomination it is right there. Jesus was the fullness of the godhead bodily. in christ dwelt God. The body of Jesus was the only tabernacle of God, the difference with God and Jesus is God had no beginning but Jesus had a beginning, there is no trinity how could the son be his own father? he is the word of god and we notice when he was baptized the spirit of God came down into him To dwell in him, he was the tabernacle of God

Difference perhaps in Revelation 21:22 ?

Revelation 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.

 

[7seven7]

This was a subject that engulfed my days and nights for 3 years. I looked into Arianism and Athanasius and the Church politics of that time, and also prayed my butt off for some answers...This was, and is an extremely volatile subject, and I think it needs to be answered in terms of humility, meaning no human is going to find the answers to this, in this lifetime anyway...And if any of us knows Gods mind (witch we dont, other then in part) we all need to be praying to that man, but their was only one Christ, and its none of us...If you pull out all the verses in scripture that lean toward one side of the argument, and all the verses that lean toward the other, you end up with 2 doctrines that are both backed by scripture...Now what? We can say compiling verse is a devicive way to bolster an argument, but what else can you do? other then to humble ourselves to the fact that mans interpitations of Gods Mind are just plain childish at best...Thats why Christ point us away from doctrine through His assault on the jewish scholars of his time, and points us to Humility...I believe He's saying to find our place as little children, and learn how to be Humble...We all have the right to embrace Christ in the manner He puts before us. He shows me one thing through my life experience and shows you another...Id like to know what He showed you! but how can I if I am to wrapped up in my own reflection, and yielding to my own knowledge?...Just imagine christendom united under one umbrella of Humility...The world wouldn't stand a chance...Peace, no offense meant ...Great thread...

Amen. Well said.

 

[Godslyric]

Cfultz
I have let God down much in my life so I am not here pontificating. But I have to say, there are a few people on this website who have made a god out of theological doctrine, and it is not being led of the Holy Spirit and that is why you get the condemnation of others you do. And it is plainly obvious it is not truth led of the Holy Spirit, because the Spirit cannot lead anyone to condemn on the basis of others believing the words of Christ, it isn't even possible according to Trinitarian theology, think that through.
I'm afraid that some who have studied the most, minus the Spirit's leading have simply taken themselves to a place where they know far less actual truth than the average pew sitter who has done no more than read a couple of chapters of the bible a day. It is folly, to rely on oneself to learn and not the Spirit
Yes, you can revel in your pass time, that's fair enough, but to achieve living Spiritual truth that way, and truth that matters is just not possible. It is a tragic thing, to give so much effort for an academic knowledge which bypasses what is simple, living Spiritual truth
Well I've had my rant, nothing else for it but to put some on ignore, it isn't proper debating anyway, even the plain literal scriptures mean nothing on a subject to some, they have to give way to the theologising of man that overturns them, that's not the Christian discussion I seek

I really like this post Silas 42...I consider Doctrine to be a potentially huge hinderance to The Gospels at times...This is after banging my head against the wall for more years then I care to admit to, deep inside all the doctrine I could get my hands on...The Human fallibility factor that comes with doctrine cant be ignored, at least by me anyway...Theirs something humorous about men attempting to speak for God... I truly believe mans biggest idol is his own thought processes, and conclusions from those thought processes that he holds so dear to himself, and is, at times, willing to even kill over. This in itself is the proof we have gone way past graven images of wood and gold, and jumped right to graven images that are images graven right into our own nuro pathways...If its not about the Love of Christ, and the kingdom, then we are all lost...Mans interpretations on these matters are, as someone else on this thread stated, "is like us puny men trying to draw a picture of the 10th dimension on a chalk board"...I hope I dident mess that quote to bad...Every year I stand, and look back on the putts I was the year before, if I dont see that putts, then I know I haven't grown a bit that year, but if I do see the growth, then I have to see the putts too. The way I view theology today is far different then I did some years ago...Its getting to look much simpler with each passing year. Love the Father/Love Christ/Love my Brothers/, obedience to Christs commands will in turn cover the 10 from Moses ... Just my own view, from here...Peace

 

[XianCatalyst]

Pro 4:20 My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.
Pro 4:21 Let them not depart from thine eyes; keep them in the midst of thine heart.
Pro 4:22 For they are life unto those that find them, and health to all their flesh.

How do we find them (the Spirit speaking):

Pro 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
Pro 2:2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
Pro 2:3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
Pro 2:4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;

Then, at the time:

Pro 2:5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God.

You have proven that you can cut and paste from a bible website.

Now what about my comments, do you understand them enough to comment? Or did you just ignore them and hope they would go away?

 

[Godslyric]

Amen. Well said.

Thanks seven, your the only friend I got out here so far. But I couldent ask for a better one...!

 

[XianCatalyst]

MMmm Spurgeon and Henry would both agree with you? And you would love to debate theology with both of them.

Yes there are big chunks of their theology that I"m quite sure is wrong. But until I heard their answers to my objections I'd have to be open that it could be ME that is wrong, eh? What sorta problem do you have with that?

I'd really like to chat with Augustine regarding his COnfessions. I think we could fix some big problems in the church today.

Well, since they are not here with us, I think you would maybe like to read what these 2 guys DID say.

And could you tell me what on earth this means: "I GET THIS from the history of the Church. THIS IS THE OFFICIAL DOCTRINE FROM THE TIME THERE WAS A DOCTRINE. "

No, I won't tell you what it means. GO BING OR GOOGLE HISTORY OF TRINITY DOCTRINE and read what was taught and what the creeds say.

You are ignorant of the history, but want to make claims that would change it. Does that make any sense to you?

 

[XianCatalyst]

Thanks seven, your the only friend I got out here so far. But I couldent ask for a better one...!

HEY, I've just met ya. Let's at least have a first date before we decide we don't like each other! Used metaphorically, that "date" word, as I don't' date men... but..... you get it, right?