Judgement

[Bowman]

Certainly, who said faith is not important?

Elohim was never in the original manuscript.

The oldest we have is called the "J" writings for it's exclusive use of YHWH, then next can the "E" writings which used EL (Elohim), this was a pagan name, the chief deity of the Canaanites was EL, remember when the Israylites worshopped the gods of the surrounding nations? Yeah, thats where it came from, Adonai also. The Masorites ADDED vowel points into the written language to change the meaning of the words thus foging the Scriptures. The vowel points added to YHWH made YaHoWaH, and thats where Jahovah comes from.

No.

The oldest extant copies of Genesis contain Elohim...




The Dead Sea Scrolls - B-295662

 

[Hizikyah]

The "J" writings are the oldest complete "OT", and uses YHWH over 6,823 times. Elohim is used in 1 chapter. I can't speak for the Dead Sea Scrolls, thats why I didn't mention them, as I don't know alot about them I do know that the "Temple Scroll" found in the Dead Sea Scrolls contains the Name YHWH exclusively.

 

[Bowman]

The "J" writings are the oldest complete "OT", and uses YHWH over 6,823 times. Elohim is used in 1 chapter. I can't speak for the Dead Sea Scrolls, thats why I didn't mention them, as I don't know alot about them I do know that the "Temple Scroll" found in the Dead Sea Scrolls contains the Name YHWH exclusively.

The copies in the dead sea scrolls collection are the oldest known, and contain both Elohim and Yahweh like we would expect, in the appropriate locations.

 

[Elin]

Why do so many people think they will not be judged by thier works? The "New Testament" tells us we will over and over

Those who are saved will be judged by their obedient works, which will determine their reward or crown, not their salvation (1Co 3:12-15).

The unsaved will be judged by their failure to do the work of God, which is to believe on Jesus Christ (Jn 6:29).

 

[john832]

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, not by works lest any man should boast.

Yep all except for...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

 

[Hizikyah]

Those who are saved will be judged by their obedient works, which will determine their reward or crown, not their salvation (1Co 3:12-15).

The unsaved will be judged by their failure to do the work of God, which is to believe on Jesus Christ (Jn 6:29).

???
1Co 3:15"'And if anyone's work is burned up, he will sustain a loss though he will be saved; as it were--(saved) in order to be burned!"

17: "If anyone defiles The Temple of Yahweh, Yahweh will destroy him. For The Temple of Yahweh is holy, which
you are."

 

[john832]

Those who are saved will be judged by their obedient works, which will determine their reward or crown, not their salvation (1Co 3:12-15).

The unsaved will be judged by their failure to do the work of God, which is to believe on Jesus Christ (Jn 6:29).

All except for this verse...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And this one...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[john832]

All except for this verse...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And this one...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Eternal life is contingent on obedience to the Commandments.

 

[RedTent]

We are to know ALL of God! We are to know that we are not saved by works but by faith.
We are to know that if we have faith but not enough faith to obey, that faith isn't enough.
We are to know that God is a God of love, and also a God of judgment.
We are to learn all about Christ, we are to be cleansed and forgiven through Christ.
Whenever we use one thing we learn about God as a reason to ignore other things, we are misusing our knowledge of God.

 

[Elin]

Eternal life is contingent on obedience to the Commandments.

Eternal life is contingent on true faith, which is not true if it does not obey.

 

[Elin]

All except for this verse...

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

And this one...

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Yes, because true faith obeys.

But it is faith that saves (Eph 2:8), not its obedience.
Obedience simply manifests true faith.

 

[Elin]

???
1Co 3:15"'And if anyone's work is burned up, he will sustain a loss though he will be saved; as it were--(saved) in order to be burned!"

Read it again, that's not what it says.

17: "If anyone defiles The Temple of Yahweh, Yahweh will destroy him. For The Temple of Yahweh is holy, which you are."

Paul is referring to the factions and quarrels of 1:11-12 which tear the church apart (destroy it).

 

[resurrection33]

Our actions do carry consequences.

 

[Hizikyah]

Read it again, that's not what it says.


Paul is referring to the factions and quarrels of 1:11-12 which tear the church apart (destroy it).

So I can do anything as vile as I can think of and it all peechy? NO

Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His
righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."

Yahdah (Jude) 1:4, "For there are certain men who have secretly crept in, who were before of old ordained for this condemnation, unholy men, who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah."

Hebrews 10:29, "How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy?"

What? right before that he said v8" Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his
own reward according to his own labor.",

and in verse 15 its about your saved but in 17 the context is 1:11-12?

I have to disagree on that

 

[Bowman]

Yep all except for...

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

The 'every man' judgment refers to the ones NOT making it into Heaven via the First Resurrection.

Revelation repeatedly mentions TWO Resurrection events - the first one is for the Righteous, and NO judgment is made on these people because they have Faith in the Biblical God.

The Second Resurrection is for the un-righteous who lack Faith, and are then judged on the only thing that they have left, their works - which simply fails to meet the Righteous criteria.


μη θαυμαζετε τουτο οτι ερχεται ωρα εν η παντες οι εν τοιςμνημειοις ακουσουσιν της φωνης αυτου και εκπορευσονται οι τα αγαθα ποιησαντεςεις αναστασιν ζωης οι τα φαυλα πραξαντες εις αναστασιν κρισεως


Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear His voice. And they will come out, the ones having practiced good into a resurrection of life; the ones having done evil into a resurrection of judgment. (John 5.28 – 29)

 

[Sanashankar]

1Pt 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God?


I guess this verse proves that the judgment for the chosen children happens in this world itself. Those who belongs to the house of God are judged in this world. That enables them to resurrect in immortal bodies. that makes them saints in the 1000 years of Jesus Christ. According to the bible judgment comes after this 1000 years. So there is no separate judgment for the house of God i.e saints.
(i don't see anywhere in the bible that Judgment means making us stand infront of all and measure our sins and righteousness)

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 2:6-11, "When He will reward each one according to his works: To the ones on one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh."

 

[Sanashankar]

Romans 2:6-11, "When He will reward each one according to his works: To the ones on one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh."

Which version of the bibe is this???i don't see people stading on the right and left hand of God during judgment in my bible.

The saints of God are supposed to judge the world and the angels. Now if they are standing for the judgment who will judge the whole world with Jesus Christ???

1C 6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
1C 6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

How can they judge the world, if they themselves are waiting for their judgment

 

[Hizikyah]

New International Version
6God “will repay each person according to what they have done.”[SUP]a[/SUP] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.


New Living Translation
6He will judge everyone according to what they have done. 7He will give eternal life to those who keep on doing good, seeking after the glory and honor and immortality that God offers. 8But he will pour out his anger and wrath on those who live for themselves, who refuse to obey the truth and instead live lives of wickedness. 9There will be trouble and calamity for everyone who keeps on doing what is evil—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile.[SUP]a[/SUP] 10But there will be glory and honor and peace from God for all who do good—for the Jew first and also for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.


King James Bible
6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: 8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
6He who pays every person according to his works: 7To those who in the patience of good works are seeking glory, honor and indestructibility, he gives eternal life, 8But those who resist and do not obey the truth, but obey evil, he will pay anger and fury, 9Suffering and trouble, to every person who cultivates wickedness, to the Jews first and to the Aramaeans, 10But glory, honor and peace to everyone who cultivates good, to the Jews first, and to the Aramaeans. 11For there is no partiality with God.


Young's Literal Translation

6who shall render to each according to his works; 7to those, indeed, who in continuance of a good work, do seek glory, and honour, and incorruptibility — life age-during; 8and to those contentious, and disobedient, indeed, to the truth, and obeying the unrighteousness — indignation and wrath, 9tribulation and distress, upon every soul of man that is working the evil, both of Jew first, and of Greek; 10and glory, and honour, and peace, to every one who is working the good, both to Jew first, and to Greek. 11For there is no acceptance of faces with God, 12for as many as without law did sin, without law also shall perish, and as many as did sin in law, through law shall be judged,

Romans 2:12, "For as many as have sinned without the Law, will also perish without the Law, and as many as have sinned in the Law, will be judged by the Law."

 

[Imperfect]

Why do so many people think they will not be judged by thier works? The "New Testament" tells us we will over and over:

Mattithyah 16:27, “For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His Malakim; and then He will reward every man according to his works.”

Yahchanan (John) 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

Acts 17:30-31, “In the past Yahweh winked at such ignorance, but now He commands all men everywhere to repent! For He has appointed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness, by a Man whom He has ordained; and He has given evidence to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

Romans 2:4-11, “Or do you despise the riches of His kindness, forbearance, and longsuffering; not realizing that Yahweh’s kindness is meant to lead you to repentance? But according to your stubborn and impenitent mind you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of Yahweh’s wrath, when the righteous judgment of Yahweh will be revealed; when He will reward each one according to his works: to the ones on the one hand, who, by patient persistence in doing righteousness, seek for glory, honor and immortality, He will give eternal life. But to the ones on the other hand, who are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, He will give indignation and wrath.” Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man who does evil: to the Yahdai(Jew) first, and also to the Greek (Gentile) But glory, honor, and peace to every man who works righteousness: to the Yahdai first, and also to the Greek. For there is no respect of persons with Yahweh.”

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

Colossians 3:24-25, “Knowing that from Yahweh you will receive the reward of the inheritance; for you serve Yahshua the Messiah. But he who does wrong will receive the reward for the wrong he has done, and there is no respect of persons.”

1 Kepha (Peter) 1:17-18, “And if you call on the Father, Who without respect of persons judges according to each man’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your sojourning here in reverence. Knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, such as silver or gold, from your idolatrous way of life handed down to you by tradition from your fathers.”

Mattithyah 15:3, “But Yahshua answered, and said to them: and why do you transgress the Laws of Yahweh by your traditions?”

Revelation 20:12-13, “And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before Yahweh. And the books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and Death and Sheol delivered up the dead which were in them. And they were judged, every man, according to their works.”

Revelation 22:12, “And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be.”

Yaaqob (James) 2:26, “For just as the body without the spirit is dead, so the faith without works is dead also.” Can dead save?

2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”

Romans 3:25, "Whom Yahweh set forth as a sacrifice of atonement by His own blood, through the faith, to declare His righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of Yahweh."

So much for past, present AND FUTURE SINS.

Hebrews 10:26-30, "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. Those who rejected the Law given through Mosheh died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished, who has trampled the Son of Yahweh underfoot, and has counted the blood of the covenant (with which He was sanctified) an unholy thing, and who has insulted the Spirit of mercy? (Yahchanan (John) 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you.") For we know Him Who has said: Vengeance is Mine; I will repay, says Yahweh. And again: Yahweh will judge His people."

Please give me your thoughts on this subject.

this comes down to what you are considering what "works" means in the scripture posted.

for example, in the bolded, works is your way of living. your lifestyle is your works.