-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Jesus himself said:
"However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (NLT, Matthew 24:36)"
Question we do not need to ask and certainly cannot determine, predict or profess to an answer.
Jesus also said we should not believe anyone who claims to be the Messiah or anyone who claims to know when He is coming again. The second coming of Jesus will be sudden, unexpected and unmistakable, like lightning flashing across the sky (Matthew 24:23-51,Mark 13:21-23, 13:32-37 Luke 17:20-37). The important thing is not to know when or how the end will come, but to be spiritually prepared when it does (Matthew 25:1-13 Matthew 24:42-44, Luke 21:34-36, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).
That said, the question should be ceased to be asked and we should all concentrate on walking with Jesus, enabled, strengthened and empowered by the Holy Spirit to develop our closeness with God.
"However, no one knows the day or the hour when these things will happen, not even the angels in heaven or the Son himself. Only the Father knows. (NLT, Matthew 24:36)"
Question we do not need to ask and certainly cannot determine, predict or profess to an answer.
Jesus also said we should not believe anyone who claims to be the Messiah or anyone who claims to know when He is coming again. The second coming of Jesus will be sudden, unexpected and unmistakable, like lightning flashing across the sky (Matthew 24:23-51,Mark 13:21-23, 13:32-37 Luke 17:20-37). The important thing is not to know when or how the end will come, but to be spiritually prepared when it does (Matthew 25:1-13 Matthew 24:42-44, Luke 21:34-36, 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3).
That said, the question should be ceased to be asked and we should all concentrate on walking with Jesus, enabled, strengthened and empowered by the Holy Spirit to develop our closeness with God.
1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
It will happen at the LAST TRUMPET, AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
It will happen at the LAST TRUMPET, AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Mattithyah 24:42, "Therefore watch! For you do not know what hour your Ruler will come."
There are particular events that MUST HAPPEN before Yahshua will return, He can not return at ANY TIME. The events in revelation must happen first. ALL 7 vials, all 7 bowls, ans 6 of the 7 trumpets, as He returns on the 7th trumpet. And He said:"Therefore watch!" Even though we dont know the exact time why would He say "Therefore watch!" if He didnt want us to pay attention? We are to watch so we will see it getting closer.
Read the parables at the end of MT 24 and in MT 25 and see if you should WATCH OR NOT. If you followed the Messiah you would listen to Him and not some false doctrine spewing preacher saying nobody knows when so we arent even supposed to look for it. (there is a whole doctrine built around NOT watching)
AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Mattithyah 24:42, "Therefore watch! For you do not know what hour your Ruler will come."
There are particular events that MUST HAPPEN before Yahshua will return, He can not return at ANY TIME. The events in revelation must happen first. ALL 7 vials, all 7 bowls, ans 6 of the 7 trumpets, as He returns on the 7th trumpet. And He said:"Therefore watch!" Even though we dont know the exact time why would He say "Therefore watch!" if He didnt want us to pay attention? We are to watch so we will see it getting closer.
Read the parables at the end of MT 24 and in MT 25 and see if you should WATCH OR NOT. If you followed the Messiah you would listen to Him and not some false doctrine spewing preacher saying nobody knows when so we arent even supposed to look for it. (there is a whole doctrine built around NOT watching)
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
AFTER THE TRIBULATION.
Matthew 24 says the rapture is "after the tribulation of those days". The context is the great tribulation mentioned in the same chapter. God's wrath is not for Christians; none of the plagues will hurt them but they still must face the Beasts. There is no way around the fact there are Christians during the tribulation. Many are beheaded for Christ. Are you saying you are better than those Christians?
T
Hizikyah, you can not see one minute into the future. The one thing that prophecy reveals
more than anything else, in the Bible is, unless the Holy Spirit guides you into
truth, you'll just be making an educated guess. 99% make educated guesses.
What you state is one of many cookie cutter prophecy packages, by someone who
made an educated guess.
Let me explain some basic fundamentals of the book of Revelation to you.
1. It was important enough for the Lord to reveal it and have it written down
2. It was important enough to tell WHY it was written Rev 1:1
3. It was important to tell to WHOM it was written, that is, the servants Rev 1:1
4. Since it is spelled out in Rev 1:1, that it was written so these "servants" would know...so
correctly indentifying them is KEY to unlocking what these visions are saying.
Do you honestly think after seeing what the Lord consider SO IMPORTANT to write down,
that He would leave out the one KEY to unlocking it all??? Do you think He would leave it
up to us to figure out, seeing how the church can not agree on anything, or do you think
He would tell us??? He spells out exactly who the servants are:
Rev 7:3-4 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants
of our God in their foreheads. (4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were
sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Yes, its the 144,000. The problem with the 99%, they read Rev 1:1 and make their own
educated guess who they think the servants are. They jump the gun and don't wait on God
to spell it out. By the time they get to Rev 7, they see these servants as another group of people.
If an individual goes through prophecy making educated guess, they'll get it wrong in a heart beat.
In Rev 7, the servants of God, on the whole earth get sealed, and there are 144,000 and not a single
one of them are gentiles. Not a one. So where did the church go? Well, the Lord reveals this too:
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and
kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes,
and palms in their hands;
That there is the rapture. The church isn't on the earth. That is why there are only 144,000 that are sealed
at that time, and why there aren't any Gentiles in the group. It is ALL ABOUT THE JEWS, not the church.
more than anything else, in the Bible is, unless the Holy Spirit guides you into
truth, you'll just be making an educated guess. 99% make educated guesses.
What you state is one of many cookie cutter prophecy packages, by someone who
made an educated guess.
Let me explain some basic fundamentals of the book of Revelation to you.
1. It was important enough for the Lord to reveal it and have it written down
2. It was important enough to tell WHY it was written Rev 1:1
3. It was important to tell to WHOM it was written, that is, the servants Rev 1:1
4. Since it is spelled out in Rev 1:1, that it was written so these "servants" would know...so
correctly indentifying them is KEY to unlocking what these visions are saying.
Do you honestly think after seeing what the Lord consider SO IMPORTANT to write down,
that He would leave out the one KEY to unlocking it all??? Do you think He would leave it
up to us to figure out, seeing how the church can not agree on anything, or do you think
He would tell us??? He spells out exactly who the servants are:
Rev 7:3-4 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants
of our God in their foreheads. (4) And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were
sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.
Yes, its the 144,000. The problem with the 99%, they read Rev 1:1 and make their own
educated guess who they think the servants are. They jump the gun and don't wait on God
to spell it out. By the time they get to Rev 7, they see these servants as another group of people.
If an individual goes through prophecy making educated guess, they'll get it wrong in a heart beat.
In Rev 7, the servants of God, on the whole earth get sealed, and there are 144,000 and not a single
one of them are gentiles. Not a one. So where did the church go? Well, the Lord reveals this too:
Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and
kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes,
and palms in their hands;
That there is the rapture. The church isn't on the earth. That is why there are only 144,000 that are sealed
at that time, and why there aren't any Gentiles in the group. It is ALL ABOUT THE JEWS, not the church.
I never said I can see into the future, I quoted a Scripture
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Its not ALL ABOUT THE JEWS the 144k are from AL 12 tribes of Israyl, and I did not say who would or would not get harmed or killed, I said if it could happen to the diciples and Shaul, we are not past it, meaning IT IS POSSIBLE. Why is it so hard to not twist my words?
1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
And as far as Yaweh's servants?
The Scriptures tell us about that also:
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in
Yahshua Messiah."
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Its not ALL ABOUT THE JEWS the 144k are from AL 12 tribes of Israyl, and I did not say who would or would not get harmed or killed, I said if it could happen to the diciples and Shaul, we are not past it, meaning IT IS POSSIBLE. Why is it so hard to not twist my words?
1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
And as far as Yaweh's servants?
The Scriptures tell us about that also:
Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."
Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in
Yahshua Messiah."
So I jacked this off of a cookie cutter prophecy package that was from someone else that made an educated guess????
Are you delusional? 1 you dont even know anything about me, and 2 it seems Yahweh has clearly not given you understanding if you read "after the tribulation of those days" and believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
Are you delusional? 1 you dont even know anything about me, and 2 it seems Yahweh has clearly not given you understanding if you read "after the tribulation of those days" and believe in a pre-trib rapture.
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
T
Its a cookie cutter prophecy package. I heard it 30 years ago, from people who heard it
from others further back. Its just one of many. You aren't the only one who holds to
that package. But its not right, only an educated guess. What I told you was directly
from the Holy Spirit. The issue of the church not being appointed for God's wrath,
don't fit your package, so that package isn't right. It ALL has to fit and that promise
doesn't fit. You just can't toss that promise out for convience. This is why I say 99%
are making educated guesses. Too much stuff don't fit the various cookie cutter
packages. However, what I told you, didn't come from my own mind, but the Holy Spirit.
Its all about the Jews. The servants are the 144,000. You got to see the visions from
their point of reference, to understand what is being to, because it is for them.
The trump that raptures the church is the voice of the Lord.
The trumpets in Rev are given to angels. There were trumpets used in feast days. There were
trumps used for the moving out of the tribes in the wilderness.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When Paul wrote that, the book of Revelation had NOT been given yet. You talking some 40 years
later before John is given the visions. Paul was refering to another trump. Otherwise, the people
of Corinth are going to be very confused for 40 years. Paul was refering to the OT in his teaching.
Something they would known about then. To say the last trump is the last trumpet in
Rev, well,...you putting the cart before the horse. You are making Paul refer to something that
hadn't been written yet. And that is another reason why that package isn't right.
from others further back. Its just one of many. You aren't the only one who holds to
that package. But its not right, only an educated guess. What I told you was directly
from the Holy Spirit. The issue of the church not being appointed for God's wrath,
don't fit your package, so that package isn't right. It ALL has to fit and that promise
doesn't fit. You just can't toss that promise out for convience. This is why I say 99%
are making educated guesses. Too much stuff don't fit the various cookie cutter
packages. However, what I told you, didn't come from my own mind, but the Holy Spirit.
Its all about the Jews. The servants are the 144,000. You got to see the visions from
their point of reference, to understand what is being to, because it is for them.
The trump that raptures the church is the voice of the Lord.
The trumpets in Rev are given to angels. There were trumpets used in feast days. There were
trumps used for the moving out of the tribes in the wilderness.
1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
When Paul wrote that, the book of Revelation had NOT been given yet. You talking some 40 years
later before John is given the visions. Paul was refering to another trump. Otherwise, the people
of Corinth are going to be very confused for 40 years. Paul was refering to the OT in his teaching.
Something they would known about then. To say the last trump is the last trumpet in
Rev, well,...you putting the cart before the horse. You are making Paul refer to something that
hadn't been written yet. And that is another reason why that package isn't right.
So Shaul by way of the Holy Spirit wrote those Scriptures and Yahchanan (John) by the way of the Holy Spirit wrote Revelation, and they could not have been talking about the same thing.
Even though it is clear they are?
1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
Cookie cutter, I read what the Scriptures said.
What ever spirit is telling you these verses are not talking about the same thing is not the Spirit that wrote the Scriptures. I dont mean to offend, but I had to say that as can not sit by while deception is at hand. I got to log off after this one.
I hope Yahweh's will is done in your life.
Even though it is clear they are?
1 Corinthians 15:52-53, "Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be dchanged. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."
Mattithyah 24:29-31, "Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other."
Cookie cutter, I read what the Scriptures said.
What ever spirit is telling you these verses are not talking about the same thing is not the Spirit that wrote the Scriptures. I dont mean to offend, but I had to say that as can not sit by while deception is at hand. I got to log off after this one.
I hope Yahweh's will is done in your life.