A brother from Nairobi, Kenya shares his conviction about the Bible Version Issue

ChosenbyHim · Aug 30, 2013

Rachel, the KJV translated "shamayim ( שמים)" in Genesis 1:1 as singular because given the context of the passage. The expanse in the sky (the first heaven) had not been created yet. That would not be created until Day Two (Genesis 1:7-8).

According to the Hebrew text, the New JPS Translation says "heaven" (singular). The 1917 JPS translation also says "heaven."

Therefore, given the context, the correct word is heaven in Genesis 1:1.

RachelBibleStudent said:

Okay I may see your point on the galaxies argument, but God did create the universe on the very first day. We know that because as said earlier, the first heaven (the expanse of the sky) was not created until Day Two (Gen. 1:7-8).

So again, the heaven created in Genesis 1:1 is clearly the universe.

RachelBibleStudent said:

Again Rachel, there is a problem though with "morning star" being the translation of Heylel in Isaiah 14:12, because in Revelation 22:16, the Lord Jesus Christ declares Himself to be the bright and morning star. We have discussed this before.

Other modern translations translate "heylel" as day star, but again, that creates yet another problem because the Lord Jesus Christ is the Day Star in 2 Peter 1:19.

Also, the Hebrew word "heylel" means light bearer. And in Latin, it is translated as Lucifer. Which was Satan's name before he fell.

The words "morning" and "star" are not found in Isaiah 14:12 in any Hebrew Text.

Morning is #1242 - boker and star is #3556 - kokwab

The new versions cause confusion when they translate "heylel" as morning star or day star. In fact, the NIV lines up with Helena Blavatsky's book, "The Secret Doctrine."

Helena Blavatsky is considered the mother of the modern New Age movement, and in that satanic book of hers (the Secret Doctrine), she blasphemes the Lord Jesus Christ and writes that it was Jesus who tried to take over heaven and who was cast out and fell from heaven.

So the NIV matches up with Helena Blavatsky's New Age book. And by the way, years before she came out with her abominable new age book, she joined the Hermes Club to learn about Satan worship. The same Hermes Club that Fenton John Anthony Hort and Brook Foss Wescott were a part of.

So again, Lucifer was Satan's name before the fall.

The following English Bibles that preceded the Authorized Version of 1611, also translate "Heylel" as Lucifer:

Coverdale's Bible, Bishop's Bible, the Great Bible, and the Geneva Bible.

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

Trax said:

The KJV is the "easier to read Bible"! Where is the wisdom?

Most important quote: "... Shakespeare ransacked the lexicon ..."

Is the King James Bible harder to read

Is the King James Bible harder to read?
In comparing the first chapter of the first and last books of the Old and New Testaments, the Flesch-Kincaid research company’s Grade Level Indicator shows "The KJV ranks easier in 23 out of 26 comparisons"
Average 5.8 8.4 6.1 7.2 6.9
"Why is the KJV easier to read? The KJV uses one or two syllable words while new versions substitute complex multi-syllable words and phrases." (Ibid, p. 196) She lists over 270 examples in the New Testament. Mrs. Riplinger also attributes the King James’s ease of understanding to "Simple sentence structure. . .." (Ibid, p. 204)
"Readability statistics generated from Grammatik and Word for Windows show why the KJV is 5th grade reading level, while the NKJV and NASB are 6th grade, and the NIV is 8th grade reading level! The KJV averages:
less syllables per word
less letters per word
less words per sentence
smaller percentage of long words
greater percentage of short words than the NKJV, NIV, NASB and NRSV
According to readability statistics generated by Pro-Scribe, the KJV is easier to read than USA Today, People Magazine and most children’s books."
The King James Bible outscored the new versions in virtually every test.
"According to the F-K [Flesch-Kincaid] formula 74.3% of the books [in the KJV] are on or below the sixth grade level, and 94% are on or below the seventh grade level! . . . And the FRE [Flesch Reading Ease] rated 97% of the KJV books as Fairly Easy or Easy! These were all first place statistics!" (Ibid, p. 80)
"If any of these seven versions is authorized to boast about its success in these rigorous readability contests, it is the Authorized Version. [KJV]. If any has the right to flaunt the crown of victory, it is the KING James Bible." (Ibid, p. 80)
It’s also worth noting, the New International Version (NIV), continually scored the worst, in some cases, much worse. So much for the nonsense about the King James being "harder to read".
"The best example of very easy prose (about 20 affixes per 100 words) is the King James Version of the Bible: . . ."
Several times in his book, Dr. Flesch praises the King James Bible for it’s ease of reading. And may I remind you, this is from the leading authority on the subject.
Echoing the opinion of Dr. Flesch in The Art of PLAIN Talk, the Apostle Paul writes the scriptures use "GREAT plainness of speech".
"The King James Bible was published in the year Shakespeare began work on his last play, The Tempest. Both the play and the Bible are masterpieces of English, but there is one crucial difference between them. Whereas Shakespeare ransacked the lexicon, the King James Bible employs a bare 8000 words—God’s teaching in homely English for everyman."
(Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 113)
The Norton Anthology of Literature, selected the King James Bible as one of the finest examples of writing style in existence. (cited in New Age Bible Versions, p. 212)
The Story of English crowns the King James Bible as, "probably the single most influential book ever published in the English language." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 109)
One of the amazing personalities of the King James Bible is it’s poetic beauty. Nothing ever penned in the English language can match it’s sound and rhythm. For a work of it’s volume and serious subject matter – the poetic splendor defies human logic. The very sound of reading of the King James Bible bears the resemble of a music concerto. It’s timbre grabs you, as it’s melody sings God’s word. What an amazing book!
It’s worth noting the emphasis the King James translators placed, not only on the readable text of the King James Bible, but also it’s sound. Before the King James Bible was published and after the initial translation work was completed, a re-working took place, The Story of English describes this unique process, "they were to go through the text, re-working it so that it would not only read better but sound better, a quality for which it became famous throughout the English-speaking world." (Robert McCrum, William Cran, and Robert MacNeil, The Story of English, p. 112)
There is a wonder and amazement at the majestic words of the King James Bible.

They literally capture you with their beauty and awe: Former President Ronald Reagan, during one of his famous radio addresses, spoke on the God News for Modern Man Bib...

ChosenbyHim · Aug 30, 2013

santuzza said:

Well Santuzza, the NIV, ESV, NASB, NKJV are all modern translations, however you want to look at it. I call them modern and new interchangeably.

Those modern translations as others, are translated from the corrupt Westcott-Hort Greek Text. And that includes the NKJV also.

Now the Coverdale Bible is a reliable English translation. As it was translated from the correct Greek and Hebrew texts.

I have a friend of mine, who just bought himself a 1599 Geneva Bible. How cool is that?! It is incredible what technology can do these days.

The Geneva Bible was the Bible which came right before the Book of all books. The Authorized King James Holy Bible.

Santuzza, I can rely on one translation. Because the King James Translation is the perfect, pure and inerrant word of God. That is how I can rely on one Bible.

Okay, well no one said that you had to only use the King James Bible, that is up to you to decide. That has to be your choice Santuzza.

I use only the King James Bible and read and study from it only because of conviction. After learning that it is the preserved inerrant word of God, I decided to just read and study from the King James Bible.

ChosenbyHim · Aug 30, 2013

One other note about the NKJV. What is a little different about the NKJV is that it has Nestle Aland's readings and Textus Receptus readings. So the NKJV is very deceptive because it blends in the corrupt Nestle Aland's readings with the Textus Receptus readings.

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

In the KJV, both Jesus and the devil are compared to a lion.

Is that the KJV-only position, that Jesus is the devil?

Rev 5:5 ... the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof. (KJV-PCE)

Rev 5:5 ... the Lion of the tribe of Iuda, the roote of Dauid, hath preuailed to open the booke, and to loose the seuen seales thereof. (KJV 1611)

1 Pet 5:8 ... your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (KJV-PCE)

1 Pet 5:8 ... your aduersary the deuill, as a roaring Lion walketh about, seeking whom he may deuoure. (KJV 1611)

Exactly the same as the Catholic Bibles, ChosenByDaPope:

Apoc 5:5 et unus de senioribus dicit mihi ne fleveris ecce vicit leo de tribu Iuda radix David aperire librum et septem signacula eius (VULGATE)

I Pet 5:8 sobrii estote vigilate quia adversarius vester diabolus tamquam leo rugiens circuit quaerens quem devoret (VULGATE)

danschance · Aug 30, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

So it is not enough that that the KJV is inspired but now you claim I can loose my salvation if I don't embrace your particular view on the KJV. Can you support that with scripture? Can you show me evidence or logic to support me going to hell because I chose to read other bibles?

Blain · Aug 30, 2013

Ah another KJV thread, Personally I can't believe people fall into the devils trap so easily. If the KjV is the one for you then great, but then making it an idol like the kjv cults do is only the fruit of falling into the devils trap of confusing and seperating christians using the holy bible. Is it not that easy to see? The devil has seperated christians and causing disunity and mass confusion and even hate by convincing people certain bibles are evil and will damn us to hell and such.

I do not read the KJV so am i going to hell then? And honestly seeing how people make a cult with this version kind of makes me think I should stay away from it but then I remember that the word of God is the word of God, no matter what version or translation it is still the living breathing word of God.

danschance · Aug 30, 2013

I guess no one made it to heaven before 1611 -----NOT!

What a joke. Condeming a person to hell for not reading the AV 1611 KJV, .. now I have heard it all.

Miss · Aug 30, 2013

by DONALD T. CLARKE — at Which Bible Can We Trust?.
very interesting. I read the KJV because I understand it better, however I do have a strongs concordance and a vines dictionary to help................but more importantly doesn't the talking head in the original posters video look like it was superimposed

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

ChosenbyHim said:

The Coverdale Bible is a reliable translation, but the King James is the only translation you can rely on?

DragonSlayer · Aug 30, 2013

Graybeard said:

No, there's also ancient and accurate versions in other languages.

DragonSlayer · Aug 30, 2013

Praus said:

Why are you denying your mistake ? Everyone can make mistakes, and you just made one :

This is the first printing of KJV, and it was NOT published by this pornographer NIV owner called Rupert Murdoch !
The Cambridge edition is a great example of that corruption I was talking about modern versions.
Tell me Praus, can you tell me the publishing year of Cambridge edition ? Was it not in the beginning of 20th century ?
Why didn't you mention that ? There's a great difference between 1611 and 1900 ! And here's the proof, the most "modern" edition of Cambridge replaced the coma by a semicolon.
Thanks Praus, you just gave me more reason to stick with my most ancient versions !

Why would it be anathema to say Christ means God ? Total non sense !
My only Master is Jesus-Christ ! Not humans !

About Rupert Murdoch publishing KJV. I disagree, sir.
Rupert Murdoch does publish his own corrupt modern versions of KJV, that's all !
I'm rather concerned a pornographer owns the NIV. Very frightening indeed !
It would be like giving a nuclear bomb to a mental. That's already fixed for me, I study the most ancient and faithful versions, and it's not the KJV only, as English is not my first language, and I won't tell you which are my preferred ancient versions, as you would mock them as you mocked the Swiss guards which are certainly not sodomites for most of them.

santuzza · Aug 30, 2013

ChosenbyHim, I don't think anyone can call a translation inerrant. There ARE errors in the KJV -- people have shown them to you. You haven't addressed the Jacob/James issue at all -- it is commonly known that the translators, hired by King James, changed the name to James to satisfy the king. I would call that a major error!

FREAK4JESUS · Aug 30, 2013

I thank God that he has revealed to you! It's not that other versions are wrong. It's just that they are messed up. KJV is a royal translation presenting the best possible Kingdom words. like, right-dominion, etc

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

DragonSlayer said:

There are no accurate versions in any other language. God used Authorized Version of 1611 to fix all of the errors in the Hebrew and Greek. The Authorized Version is always correct, if it doesn't match the Hebrew or Greek, then the Authorized Version is correct and the Hebrew or Greek is wrong.

Quote: "The King James Bible is improved over the Hebrew and Greek in revealing the words of God."

Ruckmanite 1611: Advance Revelations in the KJV

Advance Revelations in the KJV

Note: All Scripture quotations found in this article are from the text of the Authorized King James Version of the Bible.

Advance Revelation means that something is revealed more clearly. The King James Bible sheds more light on things. Advance Revelation is not additional revelation from God apart from the Bible. The Bible is where we receive revelation from God. Revelation can not be found anywhere else.

2 Peter 1:19 "We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost."

Revelation 22:18 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

Because the King James Bible is the preserved word of God, God shut the door of Revelation in 1611. The new versions do not contain Advanced Revelation because they are translated from corrupt manuscripts, along with many other factors.

The King James Bible is improved over the Hebrew and Greek in revealing the words of God. Advance means "improved" and Revelation means "the act of discovering to others what was before unknown". In comparison to the King James Bible, the Hebrew and Greek is not as clear when showing the words of God.

When going to the Greek and Hebrew, the "scholars" use their own definitions, interpretations and translations, while most of the time going to the wrong manuscripts. They can even translate wrongly when using the right texts, Masoretic and Textus Receptus. When they do this, they set themselves up as their own authority when God has already preserved his word in the King James Bible. God did not inspire the King James translators, but He did lead them in their translating and while they were humble (James 4:10) and referred themselves as poor instruments, they were far superior translators than the modern day "scholars" today.

There are many examples of Advanced Revelation in the King James Bible. The order of the books in the King James Bible is superior than the order of the books in the Hebrew Old Testament because the Hebrew does not preserve the Premillennial order found in Jeremiah, Lamentations and Ezekiel. The order of the King James Bible has the destruction of Jerusalem by the Antichrist in Jeremiah, the Great Tribulation in Lamentations and the Second Advent in Ezekiel. In the Hebrew Old Testament Lamentations has been extracted from the order. The King James Bible order of books in 2 Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job and Psalms has been shattered by Daniel following Esther, Job following Proverbs and Chronicles following Ezra. The order of destruction and dispersion, return, rebuilding, rapture, replacement of a Gentile Bride with a Jewish, Daniel's 70th Week and Second Advent is preserved in the King James Bible. This light is not found in the Hebrew.

The King James Bible is authorized under a king by the name of James. James is not an English name, rather in Hebrew it means Jacob. In the Bible, Jacob was a prince in Israel. The dedicatory in the AV 1611 says, "To the most high and mighty Prince James (Jacob)". God waited for a King in England to have a Jewish name to authorize His Book that was originally written by all Jews.

Ecclesiastes 8:4 "Where the word of a king is, there is power: and who may say unto him, What doest thou?"

In Numbers 33:52, pictures were considered bad and to be destroyed. This commandment still carries over in the New Testament(1 Cor. 10:11). Modern day "scholars" have went to the Hebrew text and falsely translated this passage as "figured stones" and "engraved stones". This is one of the many examples where running to the Hebrew and Greek can cause confusion.

Numbers 33:52 "Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:"

Another example of where the "scholars" fail to translate the Hebrew is in Genesis 24:22 and 30. Eliezer, a type of the Holy Spirit makes the mistake of giving Rebekah, who is a type of the Bride of Christ an earring. The modern day "scholars" translated "earring" as "nose ring" or "nose jewel". This is proven to be a false translation because in Exodus 32:2-3 and Isaiah 3:20-21, the nose jewels are separate from the earrings. This proves that running to the Hebrew and Greek will just make the Bible student lose Advance Revelation that is found in the God preserved King James Bible.

God reveals Advance Revelation to Christians who trust and believe that the King James Bible not only contain the words of God, but actually are the very words of God, without error(1 Cor. 2:4-19). The above examples prove that those Advanced Revelations can be found when we compare scripture with scripture and historical events with those words.

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

DragonSlayer said:

What mistake? That's a colon, not a comma. The Oxford changed the colon to a comma, and Cambridge changed it, correctly, to a semicolon.

DragonSlayer said:

If you're sticking with the most ancient versions, then why do you quote the Oxford 1759 (?) instead of the 1611?

DragonSlayer said:

"For most of them?" I have no idea about sodomites, so I defer to your vast knowledge of that topic.

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

DragonSlayer said:

The beginning of the 20th century is exactly correct All serious KJV-only people know this so I didn't mention it. Cambridge printed a pure King James Version from approximately 1900 to at least 1975, perhaps 1985.

DragonSlayer said:

Since you quoted from an Oxford KJV, here's an example of how they change the title of God from Counseller to Counsellor.

Isa 9:6 For vnto vs a child is borne, vnto vs a Sonne is giuen, and the gouernment shalbe vpon his shoulder: and his name shalbe called, Wonderfull, Counseller, The mightie God, The euerlasting Father, The Prince of peace. (KJV)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV-PCE)

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. (KJV Oxford)

Oxford corrupted the KJV with their "Oxford spelling" and was only able to get away with it because they publish the Oxford English Dictionary, not because they have any actual English skills.

DragonSlayer · Aug 30, 2013

danschance said:

AMEN !

Matthew 28:20( KJV 1611)[SUP]20[/SUP]Teaching them to obserue all things, whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and loe, I am with you alway, euen vnto the end of the world. Amen.

Matthew 28:20 ( NIV ) and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.(?)

Matthew 28:20 ( ESV )teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always,
to the end of the age.(?)

Mark 16:20 ( KJV) And they went foorth, and preached euery where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the worde with signes following. Amen.

Mark 16:20 ( NIV ) Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it. (?)

Mark 16:20 ( ESV ) And they went out and preached everywhere, while the Lord worked with them and confirmed the message by accompanying signs. (?)

Luke 24: 53 ( KJV ) And were continually in the Temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Luke 24: 53 ( NIV ) And they stayed continually at the temple, praising God. (?)

Luke 24: 53 ( ESV )and were continually in the temple blessing God. (?)

John 21: 25 ( KJV) And there are also many other things which Iesus did, the which if they should be written euery one, I suppose that euen the world it selfe could not conteine the bookes that should be written,Amen.

John 21: 25 ( NIV ) Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written. (?)

John 21: 25 ( ESV ) Now there are also many other things that Jesus did. Were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. (?)

Hebrews 13: 25 ( KJV ) Grace be with you all. Amen.

Hebrews 13: 25 ( NIV ) Grace be with you all. (?)

Hebrews 13: 25 ( ESV ) Grace be with all of you. (?)

1 John 5 : 21 ( KJV ) Little children, keepe your selues from Idoles. Amen.

1 John 5 : 21 ( NIV ) Dear children, keep yourselves from idols. (?)

1 John 5 : 21 ( ESV ) Little children, keep yourselves from idols. (?)

Revelation 3:14 ( KJV ) And vnto the Angel of the Church of the Laodiceans, write, These things saith the Amen, the faithfull and true witnesse, the beginning of the creation of God:

JESUS-CHRIST
IS THE AMEN !

AMEN !

Praus · Aug 30, 2013

DragonSlayer said:

I call them Saint Wycliffe and Saint Tyndale for a reason--because they're holy people!

Iohn 20:16--which is the most beautiful English? All of them!

1394 Wycliffe Bible
Jhesus seith to hir, Marie. Sche turnede, and seith to hym, Rabony, that is to seie, Maister.

1531 Tyndale Bible
Iesus sayde vnto her: Mary. She turned her selfe and sayde vnto him: Rabboni which is to saye master.

1535 Coverdale Bible
Iesus sayde vnto her: Mary. Then turned she her aboute, & sayde vnto him: Rabboni, yt is to saye: Master.

1537 Matthew Bible
Iesus sayde vnto her: Mary. She turned her selfe, and sayd vnto him: Rabbony, whiche is to saye: Mayster.

1539 Great Bible
Iesus sayeth vnto her. Mary. She turned her selfe, & sayd vnto hym: Rabboni, which is to saye, master.

1560 Geneva Bible
Iesus saith vnto her, Marie. She turned her selfe, and said vnto him, Rabboni, which is to say, Master.

1568 Bishops' Bible
Iesus sayth vnto her, Marie. She turned her selfe, and sayde vnto hym: Rabboni, which is to say, Maister.

1611 King James Bible
Iesus saith vnto her, Mary. She turned herselfe, and saith vnto him, Rabboni, which is to say, Master.

ChosenbyHim · Aug 30, 2013

santuzza said:

Sure they can. A translation can be inerrant. Just as a translation can be inspired.

No there are not any errors in the King James Bible. Santuzza, if there is one error in the Holy Bible, then how do we know that John 3:16 is not an error? You see, if there is one error in the Bible, then that opens up the possibility of there being thousands of errors.

But thankfully, there are no errors in the Holy Bible. There cannot be any errors in the true word of God, because God cannot lie (Titus 1:2).

As far as the Jacob/James issue, I was getting ready to address that. But I'll just go ahead and address it now. And it can actually be resolved rather quickly.

First ask yourself the following questions:

Question 1: Who wrote the book of James?

Question 2: Out of the twelve apostles which the Lord Jesus Christ chose, did one of them have the name Jacob?

Another way that question could be asked is, are there any apostles in the Scriptures that have the name Jacob?

Question 3: Who does the author identify himself as in the very first verse of the epistle?

A brother from Nairobi, Kenya shares his conviction about the Bible Version Issue

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