A brother from Nairobi, Kenya shares his conviction about the Bible Version Issue

[Praus]

AMEN !

American King James Version - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"The American King James Version is a new English edition of the Holy Bible by Michael Peter (Stone) Engelbrite, based on the King James Version. According to Engelbrite, it is a simple word-for-word update from the King James English. Care has been taken to change nothing doctrinally, but to simply update the spelling and vocabulary. The grammar has not been changed to avoid altering the doctrine.

Engelbrite has put the American King James version of the Bible into the public domain on November 8, 1999. In a note distributed with the translation, he stated, “You may use it in any manner you wish: copy it, sell it, modify it, etc. You can't copyright it or prevent others from using it. "

Matthew 28:20( KJV 1611)[SUP]20[/SUP]Teaching them to obserue all things, whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and loe, I am with you alway, euen vnto the end of the world. Amen.

Matt 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatever I have commanded you: and, see, I am with you always, even to the end of the world. Amen. (AKJV)

Mark 16:20 ( KJV) And they went foorth, and preached euery where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the worde with signes following. Amen.

Mark 16:20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (AKJV)

Luke 24: 53 ( KJV ) And were continually in the Temple, praising and blessing God. Amen.

Luke 24:53 And were continually in the temple, praising and blessing God. Amen. (AKJV)

John 21: 25 ( KJV) And there are also many other things which Iesus did, the which if they should be written euery one, I suppose that euen the world it selfe could not conteine the bookes that should be written,Amen.

John 21:25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen. (AKJV)

Is it Iohn 21:25 or John 21:25?

Hebrews 13: 25 ( KJV ) Grace be with you all. Amen.

Heb 13:25 Grace be with you all. Amen. (AKJV)

1 John 5 : 21 ( KJV ) Little children, keepe your selues from Idoles. Amen.

1 John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen. (AKJV)

Is it I.Iohn 5:21 or 1 John 5:21?

Revelation 3:14 ( KJV ) And vnto the Angel of the Church of the Laodiceans, write, These things saith the Amen, the faithfull and true witnesse, the beginning of the creation of God:

Rev 3:14 And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things said the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; (AKJV)

 

[Stephen63]

Santuzza, the new versions contain heresies in them. How do you get the truth when you are going to a bible that has been corrupted? The new versions are based on a totally different Greek text.

It is not good to use the modern versions. The new versions contain an error in the very first verse of Genesis.

In Genesis 1:1, the King James Bible says that:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Genesis 1:1 (King James Bible)

The heaven that was created in Genesis 1:1, was the universe and galaxies. The first heaven which is the atmosphere of the earth was created in Genesis 1:6-8.


Now look at what the new versions do in Genesis 1:1:


New International Version
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

New Living Translation
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.

English Standard Version
In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.

New American Standard Bible
In the beginning God created theheavens and the earth.


And nearly all the new versions make this subtil change.


Therefore, the new versions contain an error in the very first of Genesis, hence, the new versions turn Genesis 1:1 into a lie.


In Isaiah 14:12, is where we learn the name of Satan before he fell. And his name was Lucifer before his fall. And the King James Bible identifies the devil's identity prior to the fall.

On the contrary, the corrupt modern bible perversions take out Lucifer and replace it with either morning star or day star. Both those titles (morning star and day star) are titles for the Lord Jesus Christ. So according to the new vatican versions, it was not Lucifer who fell, but it was Jesus Christ who fell from heaven.

That one example alone should cause any Christian to be greatly disturbed. Because that corruption which I just showed you Santuzza is a satanic corruption. It is utter blasphemy against the Lord Jesus Christ.


So again, it is not good to use the modern translations. They are perversions. They are satanic counterfeits. If you want the truth, then get yourself a King James Bible. Get that blessed Book with the thee's and the thou's. Amen.

Hebrew Word: ‏שָׁמַיִם‎
Transliteration: shāmayim
Phonetic Pronunciation:

shaw-mah'-yim
Root: from an unused root meaning to be lofty
Cross Reference: TWOT - 2407a
Part of Speech: n m
Vine's Words: Heavens



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
heaven 398
air 21
astrologers + <H1895> 1
[Total Count: 420]

dual of an unused singular shameh, shaw-meh'; from an unused root meaning to be lofty; the sky (as aloft; the dual perhaps alluding to the visible arch in which the clouds move, as well as to the higher ether where the celestial bodies revolve) :- air, × astrologer, heaven (-s).

 

[Stephen63]

And Agricola, if you don't think that perversion of Scripture is being done today well then you lack spiritual discernment. Are you aware that even in Paul's time, they were corrupting the word of God? At the time when the apostle Paul was still writing the Scriptures, you had people even back in his time who were corrupting the word of God.


17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 2:17 (King James Bible)



Now of course the modern versions also had to corrupt and change this verse as well, so that they could hide their sin:


New International Version
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, as those sent from God.

New Living Translation
You see, we are not like the many hucksters who preach for personal profit. We preach the word of God with sincerity and with Christ's authority, knowing that God is watching us.

English Standard Version
For we are not, like so many, peddlers of God’s word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God, in the sight of God we speak in Christ.

New American Standard Bible
For we are not like many, peddling the word of God, but as from sincerity, but as from God, we speak in Christ in the sight of God.

Greek Strong's Number: 2585
Greek Word: καπηλεύω
Transliteration: kapēleuō
Phonetic Pronunciation:

kap-ale-yoo'-o
Root: from kapelos (a huckster)
Cross Reference: TDNT - 3:603,415
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Corrupt, Corruption, Corruptible, Incorruption, Incorruptible



Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
corrupt 1
[Total Count: 1]

from kapelos (a huckster); to retail, i.e. (by implication) to adulterate (figurative) :- corrupt.

 

[Stephen63]

Wrong Rachel.

In the 27th edition of the Nestle Aland, right in their introduction, the men and editors behind this critical Greek text tell us in their very own words the purpose for this edition. On page 45, they write:

"The text shared by these two editions was adopted internationally by Bible Societies, and following an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies it has served as the basis for new translations and for revisions made under their supervision. This marks a significant step with regard to interconfessional relationships. It should naturally be understood that this text is a working text: it is not to be considered as definitive, but as a stimulus to further efforts toward defining and verifying the text of the New Testament."

Hence, the editors openly admit that this critical Greek text is a result of an agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies.

How clear does the evidence have to be? I mean facts are facts.

It is right there for you to see. Also note that they say that the text is not definitive. Which means that they can change it and amend it whenever they wish to. And of course their text has been changing, and will only continue to.

And that is why the text of the modern versions like the NASB and ESV are constantly being changed and revised.

Check out some of the extensive work and documentation brother Will Kinney has done on this issue. It is incredible.

The so called "Science" of modern textual criticism is not even a science at all. It is just wicked men who are changing and perverting the words of God.

well that was very dishonest of you...

if you read the rest of the introduction to the nestle-aland 27th edition...it is clear that the agreement between the vatican and the united bible societies was concluded -after- the nestle-aland 26th edition was finished...basically the roman catholic church finally decided to abandon their strict adherence to the latin vulgate and agreed to use NA26 as their source text for future bible translations...

but nothing in this agreement gave the vatican any say in what the text of NA26 contained...because NA26 was already completed...

the vatican did not have any say in what the text of the nestle-aland 27th edition contained either...because as the rest of the introduction to NA27 makes clear...NA27 has the same text as NA26...the only difference is a revised critical apparatus...

so to summarize...the roman catholic church had no influence on the text that the modern bibles are translated from...while the idolized version on the other hand is based mostly on a text compiled by a roman catholic from texts held in roman catholic monasteries...so it is not only false but hypocritical for you to call the modern bible translations 'vatican bibles'

It seems you've caught him...... but maybe you've caught his leaders lying instead? Most of these KJV'only's just parrot their leaders' statements & quotes without checking anything themselves. They don't check their leaders for accuracy or truth. That may explain why their leaders make so much money & no one asks any questions. They're probably told told they're not allowed to..... just like JW's can't question anything.

I think what most KJV only's are guilty of is being blind puppets for their rich masters, doing all their legwork for free.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

well that was very dishonest of you...

No Rachel, that wasn't being dishonest. That was simply giving you what the editors said in their own words. Now if you want, I can share a larger excerpt from their introduction. But what I just showed you is clear evidence that the United Bible Socieites and The Vatican came to an agreement. And their base Greek text (Nestle-Aland critical Greek 27th edition) is the basis for new translations and their revisions.

if you read the rest of the introduction to the nestle-aland 27th edition...it is clear that the agreement between the vatican and the united bible societies was concluded -after- the nestle-aland 26th edition was finished...basically the roman catholic church finally decided to abandon their strict adherence to the latin vulgate and agreed to use NA26 as their source text for future bible translations...

If that is so, then how come the UBS is the Bible Society for the world council of churches?

Why is the UBS program so ecumenical and that they do not ask any doctrinal question? Look this stuff up. That is their policy.

According to the Trinitarian Bible Society Quarterly Record, Jan-Mar. on pages 13 -14, the United Bible Societies write the following:


“Referring to the interdenominational character of the Bible societies, the article states that ‘their sole concern is to recruit every believer, whatever his private creed may be,’ to join in the urgent task of proclaiming the Gospel in every tongue. ... The Societies ‘endeavor to serve the whole Church of Christ irrespective of denominational divisions and creedal [doctrinal] distinctions’”


And as early as 1964, there was an ecumenical meeting for the purpose of planning to come up with a "common text/translation" that both protestants and Catholics could use. In Andrew Brown's book, The Word of God among All Nations, pgs. 122-123 he documents the following:


“The work of joint Bible translation and distribution between Protestants and Catholics was encouraged by the Driebergen conference of Bible societies in June 1964, which was attended also by Roman Catholics. The chief recommendations of the conference were: to prepare a ‘common text’ of the Bible in the original languages, acceptable to all Churches, including Roman Catholics; and to explore the possibility of preparing a ‘common translation’ in certain languages, which could be used by Protestants and Roman Catholics alike. It was further recommended that the Bible societies should consider translating and publishing the Apocrypha when Churches specifically requested it...One result of Vatican II was the setting up in 1966 of the Vatican Office for Common Bible Work."


Another thing Rachel, if the agreement between the Vatican and the United Bible Societies concluded after the Nestle Aland's 26th edition was finished then how come the latest UBS text claimed correspondence with the Catholic church?


"the new text is a reality, and as the text distributed by the United Bible Societies and by the corresponding office of the Roman Catholic Church it has rapidly become the commonly accepted text for research and study in universities and church." - The Text of the New Testament (Kurt Aland and Barbara Aland, Grand Rapids: Wm B Eerdmans, 1995), pg. 35.


Also, are you aware that by 1997, 174 of the UBS translation projects were joint endeavors with the Roman Catholic church? They were joint endeavors, and that is only 16 years back!

There is a clear agreement between the UBS and the Vatican. Also in 1997, a CEV Bible with the Apocrypha in Catholic order was scheduled for publication in spring of that year.

And on the prior year (1996) when the pope visited the United States, look at how the Eugene Habecker, American Bible Societies president received him:


"As the highlight of the Bible Society’s celebration, ABS President Dr. Eugene Habecker presented the pope with a white, leather-bound Contemporary English Version Bible and a commemorative Gospel of John at St. Joseph’s Seminary in Yonkers, New York. The Contemporary English Version is now the translation used in the Lectionary for Masses with Children." - (American Bible Society’s 1996-97 Catalog of Scripture Resources, p. 13)


Talk about ecumenical!!


Then just 6 years later, the pope receives 70 representatives of the United Bible Societies as well as the Bible Societies for Europe and the Middle East:

In 2002 Pope John Paul II received 70 representatives of the United Bible Societies and Bible Societies of Europe and the Middle East and commended them for their ecumenical approach to Bible translation.“Commenting on the occasion, David Bedford, the UBS Head of Global Development, said that the Papal audience -- and the Pope’s affirmationof the Bible Societies’ mission --had touched him deeply”(TBS Quarterly Record, Jan.-Mar. 2003).


And one final note, in 2013 when pope Francis was elected, the United Bible Societies praised the new pope and they affirmed their close collaboration with the Vatican.

but nothing in this agreement gave the vatican any say in what the text of NA26 contained...because NA26 was already completed...

Well then why do the modern versions line up with Catholic doctrine?

That is a question to consider Rachel.

the vatican did not have any say in what the text of the nestle-aland 27th edition contained either...because as the rest of the introduction to NA27 makes clear...NA27 has the same text as NA26...the only difference is a revised critical apparatus...

Again, then why is the Vatican so close to the United Bible Societies then?

Why do the modern versions like the NIV, ESV, and NASB agree with the Catholic bibles like the New Jerusalem Bible?

Why do they remove the same verses from their texts? (i.e. Acts 8:37, Matt. 23:14...) ??

so to summarize...the roman catholic church had no influence on the text that the modern bibles are translated from...while the idolized version on the other hand is based mostly on a text compiled by a roman catholic from texts held in roman catholic monasteries...so it is not only false but hypocritical for you to call the modern bible translations 'vatican bibles'

Wrong Rachel. The Roman Catholic church did have an influence on the text of the modern bibles.

The NIV was partially translated at a Catholic University in Salamanica, Spain. So it was translated under the supervision of the Vatican. These are facts Rachel. And you can ignore and reject them, but you cannot deny them.

Rachel, the King James Bible was translated from the pure stream of texts ( Stephen's 1550 text, Beza, Byzantine).


And in regard to Erasmus, he was a critic of the Papal monarchy. Also he rejected Jerome's translation because he was aware that it had been corrupted, being that it was based on the Alexandrian manuscript (Vaticanus). Rachel, we've discussed this before. You should know and be aware of this.

Erasmus taught that Salvation was a matter between a matter between a person and God and that it was by faith alone. Without any works. The Catholic church was at odds with Erasmus for this reason, because as we know the Roman Catholic church teaches salvation by works through performing the tenets and sacraments of the church.

And 23 years after Erasmus' death, pope paul IV put Erarmus' writings on the "INDEX" of books that were forbidden to be read by roman Catholics.

So no Rachel, that argument that Erasmus was a Catholic does not work.

The bottom line is that the Roman Catholic church and the Vatican have greatly influenced the texts of the modern versions. That is why the modern versions attack the Lord Jesus Christ and His deity. And that is why the modern versions also attack the Doctrine of Salvation by grace through faith alone. And that is also why the Catholic church promotes the modern versions like the NIV.

Don't believe this? Then go look up a few Catholic websites and see what translation they promote the most.

 

[Stephen63]

AMEN !

Matthew 28:20( KJV 1611)[SUP]20[/SUP]Teaching them to obserue all things, whatsoeuer I haue commanded you: and loe, I am with you alway, euen vnto the end of the world. Amen.

Proper rendering in the red letter edition:
Matthew 28:20 (KJV) [SUP]20 [/SUP]Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The reason the other versions don't have "amen" is because it was added to the KJV, just like all those other scriptures you quoted.
Let me guess.... you kjvonly's don't read commentaries either? Are they also of the devil?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

So it is not enough that that the KJV is inspired but now you claim I can loose my salvation if I don't embrace your particular view on the KJV. Can you support that with scripture? Can you show me evidence or logic to support me going to hell because I chose to read other bibles?

Danschance, did you even read my last post to you? Probably not.

Again, the Bible Version Issue is not a salvation issue. I made that clear in my last post to you. Take the time to read the entire post next time you comment. That helps.

You cannot lose your salvation if you are truly born again. True Born again Christians have eternal security. They are sealed unto the Day of Redemption (Eph. 4:30).

And what determines whether a person goes to heaven or not when he dies is only dependent upon whether or not that person accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Saviour.

There are a lot of genuine Christians I am sure who read and use the modern versions. And I am sure that a lot of the Christians who read the modern versions are just ignorant of the Bible Version Issue. If a Christian knew what he was reading was connected to the Vatican, I am sure he would have conviction about it, and get rid of it. After all, it was the Roman Catholic church and the Papacy that tortured, killed, and burned millions of Christians at the stake down through the centuries. And the persecution was intense especially during the Dark Ages.


[video=youtube;nXZU0OlXAQQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXZU0OlXAQQ[/video]


Study the Waldenses and how they were persecuted immensely by the Papacy. And why? Because the Waldenses were Bible believers. They believed the Holy Scripture and they saw that the Catholic church and the Papacy were in disobedience to the word of God.


If you want to know the truth. Well then you are going to need to study. A lot of Christians back off on the Bile Version Issue because they know it takes work, time and study. There are answers out there on the Bible Version Issue, but you must take the time to look into the issue and to study it.


You are not going to learn all you want to in one day. This is not fast food Christianity. If you want the truth on this issue. It is there. But again, you have to take the time to study. Do your due diligence.

 

[Agricola]

Yes it takes a while to be brainwashed into a cult.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Yes it takes a while to be brainwashed into a cult.

And this comes from someone who has been shown the truth and yet continues in his error.

Again Agricola, you are without excuse sir. If you are ignorant, then you need to study the issue. And don't just study one side either. Take the time to study both sides of the issue.

 

[Agricola]

And this comes from someone who has been shown the truth and yet continues in his error.

Again Agricola, you are without excuse sir. If you are ignorant, then you need to study the issue. And don't just study one side either. Take the time to study both sides of the issue.

You have not shown me any truth, just yours, and your cults version of the truth. I have studied the issue. You fail to take into account that I have known the Holy SPirit for over 30 years and there has never been a red flag over Bible version issues, so what does that tell you?

I have also shown you countless times how warped your cult is and shown you hundreds of errors that your cult makes, yet you ignore those and instead launch into another cut and paste job which just go off on tangent and raise more complex issues which can never be resolved, rather like in the same way which atheists skirt issues but then bring up evolution which drags on without resolve.

I already shown you that your cult is foolish and stupid, the basic issues it has with other translations is nothing more than paranoid delusions such as your cult claiming that changing The King James text from face ring to Nose ring in NIV etc is evil, when in fact it is more accurate translation as nose rings are still used today to show a woman is married. There were many other stupid petty claims on this level, the evils of changing the word "Easter" to "Passover"

As I continually say, if you hear someone tell you that 124+15 =134 then you can not trust them to teach you mathmatics. Your cult can not get the basics right, so its corrupt from the foundation, so why should I trust and beleive what you say? I can not and never will.

Your cult is dangerous in many ways, in one way it wants to ban everything other than the King James, thats what police and states and communism amongst others does, bans only what the party want you to read.

Many things would be lost if we only had the King James and none would be the wiser, especially when it comes to using Bible text to corroborate history, as much of the Old Testament history in King James does away with specifics and accurate facts and just leaves generalisations. Thank goodness we have other versions of the Bible which archeaologists can use and find the events for which the artefacts they dug up refer to.

Your cult makes the basic mistake of thinking that Christians should have a single source original Bible to work from, just like the Muslims have with the QUaran, but Christianity was never ment to work like that. Christianity was not meant to be spread in this way, but instead through belief and faith through word of mouth and miracles and finally getting to know Christ and Holy Spirit when call out TO God.

I do not know of a single Christian who came to become a Christian from just reading the Bible. All Christians I know have come to Christ from seeing miracles, hearing and believing their friends testimonies, being touched by Holy Spirit at crusades and over a long period of time from just continually asking questions to the point where they believe.

Christians are not stupid, we know the differences of translations, thats why I and others use several versions to study with, HOly SPirit teaches and guides us, we know what is what, not bound to a ridiculous cult movements religious bindings and claims.

YOur King James only cult is only creating division and more disturbingly, condemnation to new Christians. Chosenbyhim, You yourself have behaved like a good obedient cult member to condemn people like myself for not accepting your claims, more typical actions of a cult, we are right and everyone is wrong, you even do what all cults do and claim Holy Spirit and GOd is on your side and that anyone who does not agree with you obviously is not in tune with Holy Spirit or God and may not even be a genuine believer, this is the evil nonsense which I detest.

I am amazed you have not been banned, we have seen other people from all kinds of Christian cults and branches and Islam being banned for saying the exact same things as you have, they have been shut down, but you are allowed to peddle these lies and spread your condemnation of other Christians, totally disgusting.

 

[brandplucked]

Serious question for all KJV only-ites.

How can the AV 1611 KJV be inspired if it was originally published along with the apocrypha?

Hi all. This is a good question. What you probably do not realize is that it is a sword that cuts both ways.

Why did the 1611 King James Bible include the Apocrypha?

Early editions of the King James Bible, as well as many other English-language Bibles of the past, including the Wycliffe Bible (1382), the Coverdale Bible (1535), the Great Bible (1539), the Geneva Bible (1560), the Bishop's Bible (1568), the Douay-Rheims Bible (1609), and the Authorized Version (1611), the Zurich Bible 1530, the French Olivetan 1535, the Spanish Reina Bible of 1569, the Reina Valera of 1602, and the German Luther (1545), all contained the Apocrypha, but these books were included for historical reference only, not as additions to the canon of Scripture. The Reformation bibles included the books known as the Apocrypha. In 1666 they began to print King James Bibles without the Apocryphal books, and eventually they stopped including them altogether.

The Geneva Bible also had several Apocryphal references in it's footnotes, "In the 1560 edition, the Geneva listed Psalm 22 and Wisdom 2:18 as a cross reference for Matthew 27:43. The Geneva Bible cross references James 3:2 with the book of Sirach 14:1, 19:16, and 25:11. It cross references Hebrews 1:3 with Wisdom 7:26.

If you look at a copy of the original 1611 King James Bible, the book of Malachi ends with these words: "The end of the Prophets". Then the whole Apocrypha, which itself means "unknown, or spurious" is clearly marked off from the rest of the Scriptures by the words "Apocrypha" twice at the top of every page throughout. It then ends with these words: "The end of Apocrypha". Then on the next page is an elaborate woodcutting and it says: "The Newe Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." All King James Bible contained the Apocrypha in the inter-testamental section until 1666. Then it began to be omitted in subsequent printings.

A brother at another Christian club pointed out the following points regarding the KJB and the Apocrypha issue: "A few observations concerning the Apocrypha in the King James Bible: (1) The KJB 1611 printing had a fancy title page that says "The Holy Bible Containing the Old Testament, and the New". There is no mention of the Apocrypha here. So what was considered "The Holy Bible" comprised the Old and New Testaments. (2) The New Testament also had a fancy title page which says, "The New Testament of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ". Note again there is no mention of the Apocrypha. (3) The Apocrypha was placed by itself in between the two testaments. (4) The Apocrypha had no fancy title page preceding it, only the title "Apocrypha". (5) The word "apocrypha" is defined in a number of ways including "hidden", "esoteric", "spurious", "of questionable authenticity". Is it not true that the Protestants used the word Apocrypha to mean that these writings were spurious and of questionable authenticity? If this is how the word apocrypha was used then simply labeling the section "Apocrypha" indicated that they did not esteem these writings as part of the canonical Scriptures."



It is ironic and somewhat hypocritical of those who criticize the KJB for including the Apocrypha in its earlier printings, when they usually favor the modern English versions like the NASB, RSV, NRSV, ESV, and the NIV. These versions are based primarily on Vaticanus and Sinaiticus manuscripts, which actually contain the Apocrypha books and then some others as well mixed up within and scattered throughout the rest of the Old Testament Scriptures with no separation indicating that they are less than inspired and authoritative. It is also hypocritical because one of the biggest promoters of the ever changing Critical Text is the Dallas Theological Seminary internet site of Daniel Wallace and company, called the NET version, and they clearly include the Apocrypha in their "bible". You can see it here: http://bible.org/netbible/


Here is a Catholic book store site where you can buy the ESV with the Apocryphal books included. This version has the full backing of the Catholic church, but you will not find the King James Bible being sold here -

Catholic Bibles: ESV w/ Apocrypha (Deuterocanonicals) is Here!

You can also get The Revised English Bible with the Apocrypha of 1989, which is another Nestle-Aland Critical Greek Text edition. This is a recent revision of The New English Bible that came out in 1970. I have a copy of it right here in my study.

Alexander McClure, a biographer of the KJV translators, says: "...the Apocryphal books in those times were more read and accounted of than now, though by no means placed on a level with the canonical books of Scripture" (McClure, Translators Revived, p. 185). He then lists seven reasons assigned by the KJV translators for rejecting the Apocrypha as canonical.

The Thirty-nine Articles of the Church of England clearly states that the Apocrypha have no scriptural authority. "...[the Church of England] doth not apply to them to establish any doctrine."

Most of the KJB translators were from the Anglican church, which at that time was far more Orthodox in their beliefs that is the present day Apostate Anglican church.

They all held to the believes of the document called The 39 Articles. The Puritans, who also took part in the translation of the King James Bible, were in agreement.

You can see The 39 Articles here -
The 39 Articles of Religion (1562)

The 39 Articles form the basic summary of belief of the Church of England. They were drawn up by the Church in convocation in 1563 on the basis of the 42 Articles of 1553. Clergymen were ordered to subscribe to the 39 Articles by Act of Parliament in 1571.

Article VI: Of the Sufficiency of the holy Scriptures for salvation

Holy Scripture containeth all things necessary to salvation: so that whatsoever is not read therein, nor may be proved thereby, is not to be required of any man, that it should be believed as an article of the Faith, or be thought requisite or necessary to salvation. In the name of the holy Scripture, we do understand those Canonical books of the Old and New Testament, of whose authority was never any doubt in the Church.

Of the Names and Number of the Canonical Books

Genesis
Exodus
Leviticus
Numbers
Deuteronomy
Joshua
Judges
Ruth
The First Book of Samuel
The Second Book of Samuel
The First Book of Kings
The Second Book of Kings The First Book of Chronicles
The Second Book of Chronicles
The First Book of Esdras
The Second Book of Esdras
The Book of Esther
The Book of Job
The Psalms
The Proverbs
Ecclesiastes or Preacher
Cantica, or Songs of Solomon
Four Prophets the greater
Twelve Prophets the less

And the other Books (as Hierome saith) the Church doth read for example of life and instruction of manners; but yet doth it not apply them to establish any doctrine; such are these following:

The Third Book of Esdras
The Fourth Book of Esdras
The Book of Tobias
The Book of Judith
The rest of the Book of Esther
The Book of Wisdom
Jesus the Son of Sirach Baruch the Prophet
The Song of the Three Children
The Story of Susanna
Of Bel and the Dragon
The Prayer of Manasses
The First Book of Maccabees
The Second Book of Maccabees

All the Books of the New Testament, as they are commonly received, we do receive, and account them Canonical. (End of Article 6 on the Canon of Scripture)

 

[brandplucked]

If I never read the AV KJV but read other versions, can I be saved?

Hi danschance. Yes, the gospel is found in any bible version out there. You can get saved by reading a Catholic version, the Jehovah Witness NWT, the NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, any foreign language Bible or a gospel tract or even by hearing a good Christian hymn. That is not the issue. I don't personally know of any King James Bible believer who thinks that a person can ONLY get saved by reading and using the King James Bible. If you find one that does, then he is flat out wrong.

The issue is do you believe that ANY Bible in any language IS the complete, inspired and infallible words of God. Most Christians today do not and they actually read and study these modern versions less and less. The public polls show that the Majority of professing Christians today do not believe in the inerrancy of any real Bible and among the seminarians and clergy the percentage is in the 90's.

See what the Polls are saying -

The Bible NOT inspired - Another King James Bible Believer

God bless.

 

[Agricola]

Bible versions do not save, Jesus does.

 

[danschance]

Hi danschance. Yes, the gospel is found in any bible version out there. You can get saved by reading a Catholic version, the Jehovah Witness NWT, the NIV, NASB, NKJV, NET, any foreign language Bible or a gospel tract or even by hearing a good Christian hymn. That is not the issue. I don't personally know of any King James Bible believer who thinks that a person can ONLY get saved by reading and using the King James Bible. If you find one that does, then he is flat out wrong.

The issue is do you believe that ANY Bible in any language IS the complete, inspired and infallible words of God. Most Christians today do not and they actually read and study these modern versions less and less. The public polls show that the Majority of professing Christians today do not believe in the inerrancy of any real Bible and among the seminarians and clergy the percentage is in the 90's.

See what the Polls are saying -

The Bible NOT inspired - Another King James Bible Believer

God bless.

Your disagreement is not with me but the OP of this thread, who accused me of being damned because I did not acept his views on the KJV only. He has also accused others that unless the accept the KJV as the only true bible, that they also would face harsh judgement from God.

So I think you should have this talk with him.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You have not shown me any truth, just yours, and your cults version of the truth. I have studied the issue. You fail to take into account that I have known the Holy SPirit for over 30 years and there has never been a red flag over Bible version issues, so what does that tell you?

Well then Agricola, if you have studied the issue, then I assume that you have seen changes that the modern versions make, correct?


Here are some of the changes that the NIV makes. Now I ask you, is the meaning the same between the NIV and the KJV?:


Psalm 10:4-5 (NIV):
In his pride the wicked man does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God. His ways are always prosperous; your laws are rejected by him; he sneers at all his enemies.



Psalm 10:4-5 (KJV)
The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts. His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.



Hosea 11:12 (NIV)
Ephraim has surrounded me with lies, Israel with deceit. And Judah is unruly against God, even against the faithful Holy One.



Hosea 11:12 (KJV)
Ephraim compasseth me about with lies, and the house of Israel with deceit: but Judah yet ruleth with God, and is faithful with the saints.



So which one is correct Agricola? They can't both be right. In fact, they are the exact opposite.

Let's take a look at a few more examples:


Revelation 13:1 (NIV)
The dragon stood on the shore of the sea. And I saw a beast coming out of the sea. It had ten horns and seven heads, with ten crowns on its horns, and on each head a blasphemous name.



Revelation 13:1 (KJV)
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

So who stood on the sea shore? Was it the Dragon? Or was it the Apostle John? Again, they both cannot be right.

Matthew 27:35 (NIV)
When they had crucified him, they divided up his clothes by casting lots.


Matthew 27:35 (KJV)
And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.


See the second half of the verse which the NIV cut out?


Luke 9:56 (NIV)
Then he and his disciples went to another village.


Luke 9:56 (KJV)
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them. And they went to another village.


Now why did the NIV take out the very first part of Luke 9:56?


Matthew 23:14 (NIV)
(Verse is missing)



Matthew 24:13 (KJV)
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.



Acts 8:37 (NIV)
(Verse is missing)



Acts 8:37 (KJV)
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.



I just showed a few examples there where the NIV is different from the King James Version. The NIV is translated from a different Greek text. The corrupt Siniaticus and Vaticanus.


What you have Agricola, is wicked men messing with God's Book. And that is a very serious thing that they are doing. God gives three warnings to not mess with His Book. First warning is in Deuteronomy 4:2, Second warning is in Proverbs 30:6, and the third and final warning is in Revelation 22:18-19.


So Agricola if God put three warnings in His Book about changing, adding to, or taking away from His words. Don't you think that God takes this issue very seriously? And notice how one warning is at the beginning of His book, one is at the middle, and the final warning is at the end (in the last chapter of His Book).


So it is a shame how you disregard what has been shown to you. The very fact that God placed warnings in His word about changing and taking away from His words also must mean that their are people who are doing exactly what he forbids. Like I said in one of my earlier posts, there were men who were corrupting God's word even in the apostle Paul's time ( 1st century).


So if men were corrupting God's word even back then in the first century, then there are definitely wicked and sinful men committing that very sin now.

I have also shown you countless times how warped your cult is and shown you hundreds of errors that your cult makes, yet you ignore those and instead launch into another cut and paste job which just go off on tangent and raise more complex issues which can never be resolved, rather like in the same way which atheists skirt issues but then bring up evolution which drags on without resolve.

And what are the hundreds of errors that we Bible believers make? And which ones have I ignored?

I already shown you that your cult is foolish and stupid, the basic issues it has with other translations is nothing more than paranoid delusions such as your cult claiming that changing The King James text from face ring to Nose ring in NIV etc is evil, when in fact it is more accurate translation as nose rings are still used today to show a woman is married. There were many other stupid petty claims on this level, the evils of changing the word "Easter" to "Passover"

No Agricola, this issue is not about paranoia. It is about Final Authority. The Bible Version Issue is an issue over the pure words of God. And when you have wicked and greedy secular publishing companies that keep making more and more modern bible versions that have changed God's words for the love of money, it is a wicked sin.


And Agricola, I already answered that change from face ring to nose ring which you brought up in my other thread.

As I continually say, if you hear someone tell you that 124+15 =134 then you can not trust them to teach you mathmatics. Your cult can not get the basics right, so its corrupt from the foundation, so why should I trust and beleive what you say? I can not and never will.

And what exactly are the basics Agricola?

And what do you have to say about those changes which I showed you between the King James Bible and the New International Version?

Your cult is dangerous in many ways, in one way it wants to ban everything other than the King James, thats what police and states and communism amongst others does, bans only what the party want you to read.

How are we King James Bible believers dangerous? We are simply seeking to build Bible belief.


Agricola, it is hard for a new convert to believe in the inerrancy of Scripture when there are so many different English translations out on the market. They all cannot be the inerrant and infallible words of God.


So it is crucial that a new convert learns about the issue as soon as possible. That way, he can answer a lost person when they ask him why are there so many translations of the Bible?


Brother Bryan Denlinger showed a clip of a video where a young man was on a campus sharing the Gospel and a Muslim asked the young man: "Why is there more than one Bible?"


And for you to honestly answer a question like that, it requires having an understanding of the Bible Version Issue.

Many things would be lost if we only had the King James and none would be the wiser, especially when it comes to using Bible text to corroborate history, as much of the Old Testament history in King James does away with specifics and accurate facts and just leaves generalisations. Thank goodness we have other versions of the Bible which archeaologists can use and find the events for which the artefacts they dug up refer to.

Agricola, how does the Authorized King James Bible do away with specifics and accurate facts in regard to Old Testament History?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Your cult makes the basic mistake of thinking that Christians should have a single source original Bible to work from, just like the Muslims have with the QUaran, but Christianity was never ment to work like that. Christianity was not meant to be spread in this way, but instead through belief and faith through word of mouth and miracles and finally getting to know Christ and Holy Spirit when call out TO God.

What we Bible believers want to do is help Christians have better confidence in the word of God. How does having over 200 English translations that all contradict one another help us believe the Holy Bible?

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't. It creates confusion and also loopholes for certain sins.

I do not know of a single Christian who came to become a Christian from just reading the Bible. All Christians I know have come to Christ from seeing miracles, hearing and believing their friends testimonies, being touched by Holy Spirit at crusades and over a long period of time from just continually asking questions to the point where they believe.

You do not know of one person who became a Christian by simply reading the Bible?

I am sure there are plenty of testimonies of people who have gotten saved by simply reading the Bible.

Of course people can also get saved by reading a Gospel Tract. Or by hearing the preaching of the Gospel. And so forth.

Christians are not stupid, we know the differences of translations, thats why I and others use several versions to study with, HOly SPirit teaches and guides us, we know what is what, not bound to a ridiculous cult movements religious bindings and claims.

Well if you know the differences, then why don't you use and read the right Bible?

Don't you think that the Holy Spirit would lead you to the right Book?

Again, if all the translations are different. They all cannot be right. One of them has to be the right one.

YOur King James only cult is only creating division and more disturbingly, condemnation to new Christians. Chosenbyhim, You yourself have behaved like a good obedient cult member to condemn people like myself for not accepting your claims, more typical actions of a cult, we are right and everyone is wrong, you even do what all cults do and claim Holy Spirit and GOd is on your side and that anyone who does not agree with you obviously is not in tune with Holy Spirit or God and may not even be a genuine believer, this is the evil nonsense which I detest.

Oh I have heard the "creating division" argument several times already. And so have the other Bible believing brethren as well.


Let me share something with you Agricola. What creates division in a church a lot of times is confusion. Try going to a Bible Study and bring ten different bible translations with you and have each person with each of the different translations stand up and read from Psalm 23 all together in unison. And see whether or not there is any harmony and clarity of what is being read. There simply won't be any harmony. There will be confusion though. So who is really causing the division Agricola?


If you don't to accept the facts of what has been shown Agricola, well okay then. That is your choice. Keep in mind that I at one time did not know about the Bible Version Issue. But when I began to study it and see how the modern translations were vastly different form the King James Bible, I decided to read and study from the King James Bible. Because I had become convinced that it is indeed the word of God.


And of course I believe that the side I am defending on this issue is right. If I did not believe that the position I stand for is right, then what is the point of me defending this very position that I have been defending? What would be the purpose?


Same thing goes with eternal security. Why do you think I defend the Doctrine of Eternal Security? Because I believe and have conviction in my heart that it is right. Same thing goes with the Pre-Trib. Rapture. Since I believe that the pre-trib. Rapture is right, I defend it.


And the same thing also goes for salvation. I believe that the Biblical way of Salvation is absolutely right and that all other religions are wrong. So the attitude that a Christian should have in regard to salvation is that Jesus and His word are always right and everything else is wrong. If I say something that contradicts the Holy Bible, them I am wrong and the Holy Bible is right. And that settles it.


And another thing Agricola, it was not even a month after I bought an ESV from a Christian bookstore, that I started to learn about the Bible Version Issue. But once I learned about the issue and saw the facts about the corruption of the modern versions, and just took it at face value. I made a change. And began to just read and study from the King James Bible.

I am amazed you have not been banned, we have seen other people from all kinds of Christian cults and branches and Islam being banned for saying the exact same things as you have, they have been shut down, but you are allowed to peddle these lies and spread your condemnation of other Christians, totally disgusting.

Agricola, what I am doing is simply presenting the information which I have learned on this issue. I am simply sharing the facts. If people don't want to accept those facts, well then they have the liberty to reject what I have shared. But they cannot deny the information.


And for those Christians that learn about the Issue and make the right choice of becoming a King James Bible believer and standing for God's preserved, pure and perfect word. Then praise and glory be to God Almighty.

 

[ChosenbyHim]

You have not shown me any truth, just yours, and your cults version of the truth. I have studied the issue. You fail to take into account that I have known the Holy SPirit for over 30 years and there has never been a red flag over Bible version issues, so what does that tell you?

One more thing Agricola, I noticed that you have mentioned a few times that you've been saved for over 30 years. And that you have not seen any issue with the modern translations. Well you may want to look into Bryan Denlinger's testimony. He used an NIV for 15 years before learning the truth on the Bible Version Issue. Think about that. He had been using a modern version for 15 years. Which is just half the amount of time that you've been saved. So your argument there is really not that strong. Because there are Christians that learn about the Bible Version Issue right after getting saved, and then there are others who have been saved for years and yet they have not been shown the issue.

So the matter here is not how long it took you to learn about the issue. The real matter is when you do learn about the real Bible Version Issue, then what are you going to do?

What are you going to do with the information and truth that you've been shown?

 

[danschance]

I wonder if it is possible to turn the KJV into an idol?

An idol is anything we give higher prominence to than God.

I think it might be possible...

 

[ChosenbyHim]

Your disagreement is not with me but the OP of this thread, who accused me of being damned because I did not acept his views on the KJV only. He has also accused others that unless the accept the KJV as the only true bible, that they also would face harsh judgement from God.

So I think you should have this talk with him.

Danshance, no I did not accuse you of being damned.

That is a lie sir.

I told you two separate times that the Bible Version Issue is not a Salvation Issue.


People can be saved by simply reading a Gospel tract. The Gospel of Salvation can be found intact even in the most corrupt and bad bible translation. I am in agreement with Brandplucked on this. Now what I do say and affirm is the fact that we all will be held accountable with the truth that we've been shown. If a person is truly ignorant about the issue, then there is some innocence there. But if you know about the issue and you have the seen the changes and corruption of the modern counterfeit bible versions, and you still persist in your error. Well then I do believe that you will have to answer for it.


We as Christians will be judged for our works which we did for the Lord Jesus Christ after salvation. Our works will be tried by fire.


8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. - 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 (KJV)



So 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 is a great passage of Scripture on the Judgment Seat of Christ.


The Judgment Seat of Christ is not to determine where we are going to spend eternity. The purpose of the Judgment Seat of Christ is to determine your level of reward in Heaven and also your Millennial Inheritance in the (Millennial Kingdom) 1,000 year physical Reign of the Lord Jesus Christ.


What determines your Eternal Destination is whether or not you accept the Lord Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Saviour. Once you get saved, that seals your destiny. At the moment of conversion (salvation) you are predestined to be conformed to the image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29). And you are also predestined unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, and are predestined to be in Heaven with Jesus Christ. (Galatians 3:29, Titus 3:7, & Ephesians 1:5-14).


So again, the purpose of the Judgment Seat of Christ is to judge the works which a Christian did for the Lord Jesus Christ after salvation and it is to determine the level of rewards for a Christian's service to the Lord while on earth (1 Corinthians 3:5-15, 2 Corinthians 5:8-12, Romans 14:10-12).



10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. - Romans 14:10-12 (KJV)




8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
9 Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
11 Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.
12 For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart. - 2 Corinthians 5:8-12 (KJV)


No Christian can lose their salvation. Every true born again Christian has eternal security (Ephesians 1:13 & Ephesians 4:30).


Well Danschance, to conclude, if there is something about my writing to you that you do not comprehend, well then you need to ask for clarification.


Please do not tell lies about me, telling others that I said "such and such" to you when I did not. I do not appreciate it when someone is lying about me and about what I said. Again, please just ask for clarification if there is something that I wrote that you do not understand. Thanks.

 

[Agricola]

One more thing Agricola, I noticed that you have mentioned a few times that you've been saved for over 30 years. And that you have not seen any issue with the modern translations. Well you may want to look into Bryan Denlinger's testimony. He used an NIV for 15 years before learning the truth on the Bible Version Issue. Think about that. He had been using a modern version for 15 years. Which is just half the amount of time that you've been saved. So your argument there is really not that strong. Because there are Christians that learn about the Bible Version Issue right after getting saved, and then there are others who have been saved for years and yet they have not been shown the issue.

So the matter here is not how long it took you to learn about the issue. The real matter is when you do learn about the real Bible Version Issue, then what are you going to do?

What are you going to do with the information and truth that you've been shown?

What a load of crap.