Do Dinosaur Fossils Validate the "Old Earth" Theory?
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Sigh....getting desperate I see.
1. The video was just a funny jab and was to show that creationism isn't science. It isn't accepted by actual scientific experts.
It comes down to evidence and the evidence is just not there for creationism.
But if you want to discuss logical fallacies no problem.
When it comes to religious arguments people are just as guilty, perhaps even more so, of committing
these on a regular basis.
No True Scotsman Fallacy
Skeptic - Hitler was a Catholic.
Christian - Hitler was not a true Christian.
2. You can read up on the Grand Canyon here:
Geology of the Grand Canyon area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FYI the Colorado River had something to do with it. No mention of
a global flood in there.
3. You took "lying next to" literally. That's your fault. I've mentioned the geologic column
and sedimentary layers several times in this thread and get tired of explaining the same
thing over and over.
Moving the goalposts you say?
Christian: Show me the missing link?
Skeptic: Ok here are the fossils List of human evolution fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christian: That's not good enough. Show me the missing link between them and us.
[video=youtube;TTOla3TyfqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTOla3TyfqQ[/video]
4. "basilosaurus fossils and coelacanth fossils have never been found in the same sediment layer"
Source?
Have these fossils ever been found in the same sediment layer as humans? No, ok well
my point still stands. No humans and dinosaurs in the same sedimentary layer.
Argument from ignorance?
Christian: How do you think the universe was created?
Skeptic: I don't know. How do you think it was created?
Christian: I don't know, therefore God did it.
5. "and there is nothing about electromagnetism that requires that uniformitarian geology be true"
You have a problem with reading what I write and misrepresenting it. Please stop twisting my words
around. I know that cell phones don't require uniformitarian geology in order to work.
My point is that you're cherry picking science. You accept and use all the good things that science
has to offer except when it interferes with your belief system i.e biology and geology.
Somehow the scientific experts in those two fields have it all wrong and superstitious desert
dwellers got it all right 2,000 years ago.
Go ahead and quote all the logical fallacies you want that you learned on the internet. They
go both ways. I'm confident with sticking to the evidence. It speaks for itself.
1. The video was just a funny jab and was to show that creationism isn't science. It isn't accepted by actual scientific experts.
It comes down to evidence and the evidence is just not there for creationism.
But if you want to discuss logical fallacies no problem.
When it comes to religious arguments people are just as guilty, perhaps even more so, of committing
these on a regular basis.
No True Scotsman Fallacy
Skeptic - Hitler was a Catholic.
Christian - Hitler was not a true Christian.
2. You can read up on the Grand Canyon here:
Geology of the Grand Canyon area - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
FYI the Colorado River had something to do with it. No mention of
a global flood in there.
3. You took "lying next to" literally. That's your fault. I've mentioned the geologic column
and sedimentary layers several times in this thread and get tired of explaining the same
thing over and over.
Moving the goalposts you say?
Christian: Show me the missing link?
Skeptic: Ok here are the fossils List of human evolution fossils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Christian: That's not good enough. Show me the missing link between them and us.
[video=youtube;TTOla3TyfqQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTOla3TyfqQ[/video]
4. "basilosaurus fossils and coelacanth fossils have never been found in the same sediment layer"
Source?
Have these fossils ever been found in the same sediment layer as humans? No, ok well
my point still stands. No humans and dinosaurs in the same sedimentary layer.
Argument from ignorance?
Christian: How do you think the universe was created?
Skeptic: I don't know. How do you think it was created?
Christian: I don't know, therefore God did it.
5. "and there is nothing about electromagnetism that requires that uniformitarian geology be true"
You have a problem with reading what I write and misrepresenting it. Please stop twisting my words
around. I know that cell phones don't require uniformitarian geology in order to work.
My point is that you're cherry picking science. You accept and use all the good things that science
has to offer except when it interferes with your belief system i.e biology and geology.
Somehow the scientific experts in those two fields have it all wrong and superstitious desert
dwellers got it all right 2,000 years ago.
Go ahead and quote all the logical fallacies you want that you learned on the internet. They
go both ways. I'm confident with sticking to the evidence. It speaks for itself.
Last edited:
D
This is just plain stupid. Hitler did make religious speeches to get the populous to support him but his private statements and actions later showed he was not a catholic in principle.
Here are some quotes from Hitler that he made in private
From: Hitler was not a Christian:refuting atheist slander
Does that sound like a Catholic to you? He sounds more like you than anyone in any sect of Christianity.
Here are some quotes from Hitler that he made in private
From: Hitler was not a Christian:refuting atheist slander
Does that sound like a Catholic to you? He sounds more like you than anyone in any sect of Christianity.
Since you like to post quotes from Hitler here's some more.
“National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship... We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]
Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)
"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)
"With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)
“The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
“The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)
“Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.
Hitler was a Christian
and more:
List of Hitler quotes — he was quite the vocal Catholic – Pharyngula
I don't care if Hitler was a Christian or not. The point was to demonstrate the logical
fallacy. You could just say Jim Jones was a Christian Jim Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but since he was behind a mass murder/suicide Christians will say he wasn't a real Christian
hence the No True Scotsman.
I will say this about Hitler, though. He could have repented to Jesus before he died and gone to
heaven but those six million Jews he killed would still go to hell - according to Christianity. Now
that's just plain messed up.
“National Socialism is not a cult-movement-- a movement for worship; it is exclusively a ‘volkic’ political doctrine based upon racial principles. In its purpose there is no mystic cult, only the care and leadership of a people defined by a common blood-relationship... We will not allow mystically- minded occult folk with a passion for exploring the secrets of the world beyond to steal into our Movement. Such folk are not National Socialists, but something else-- in any case something which has nothing to do with us. At the head of our programme there stand no secret surmisings but clear-cut perception and straightforward profession of belief. But since we set as the central point of this perception and of this profession of belief the maintenance and hence the security for the future of a being formed by God, we thus serve the maintenance of a divine work and fulfill a divine will-- not in the secret twilight of a new house of worship, but openly before the face of the Lord… Our worship is exclusively the cultivation of the natural, and for that reason, because natural, therefore God-willed. Our humility is the unconditional submission before the divine laws of existence so far as they are known to us men.” -Adolf Hitler, in Nuremberg on 6 Sept.1938. [Christians have always accused Hitler of believing in pagan cult mythology. What is written here clearly expresses his stand against cults.]
“We were convinced that the people needs and requires this faith. We have therefore undertaken the fight against the atheistic movement, and that not merely with a few theoretical declarations: we have stamped it out.” -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]
Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God’s truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow my self to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice… And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows . For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people." –Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)
"Christianity could not content itself with building up its own altar; it was absolutely forced to undertake the destruction of the heathen altars. Only from this fanatical intolerance could its apodictic faith take form; this intolerance is, in fact, its absolute presupposition." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is quite obvious here that Hitler is referring to destructing the Judaism alters on which Christianity was founded.)
"The personification of the devil as the symbol of all evil assumes the living shape of the Jew." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (The idea of the devil and the Jew came out of medieval anti-Jewish beliefs based on interpretations from the Bible. Martin Luther, and teachers after him, continued this “tradition” up until the 20th century.)
"With satanic joy in his face, the black-haired Jewish youth lurks in wait for the unsuspecting girl whom he defiles with his blood, thus stealing her from her people." -Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (It is common in war for one race to rape another so that they can “defile” the race and assimilate their own. Hitler speaks about this very tactic here.)
“The best characterization is provided by the product of this religious education, the Jew himself. His life is only of this world, and his spirit is inwardly as alien to true Christianity as his nature two thousand years previous was to the great founder of the new doctrine. Of course, the latter made no secret of his attitude toward the Jewish people, and when necessary he even took the whip to drive from the temple of the Lord this adversary of all humanity, who then as always saw in religion nothing but an instrument for his business existence. In return, Christ was nailed to the cross, while our present- day party Christians debase themselves to begging for Jewish votes at elections and later try to arrange political swindles with atheistic Jewish parties-- and this against their own nation.”–Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
"…the fall of man in paradise has always been followed by his expulsion." -Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf (See Genesis Chapter 3 where humankind is cast from Eden for their sins. Hitler compares this to the need to exterminate the Jews for their sin against Christ.)
“Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord.” –Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)
“The anti-Semitism of the new movement [Christian Social movement] was based on religious ideas instead of racial knowledge.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (This quote is very interesting for it disperses the idea that Hitler raged war due to being an Aryan supremacist. He states quite clearly that he has a problem with Jews for their belief not race. That is why many German Jews died in WW2 regardless of their Aryan nationality.)
“Only in the steady and constant application of force lies the very first prerequisite for success. This persistence, however, can always and only arise from a definite spiritual conviction. Any violence which does not spring from a firm, spiritual base, will be wavering and uncertain.” –Adolf Hitler Mein Kampf (Here Hitler is admitting that his war against the Jews were so successful because of his strong Christian Spirituality.
Hitler was a Christian
and more:
List of Hitler quotes — he was quite the vocal Catholic – Pharyngula
I don't care if Hitler was a Christian or not. The point was to demonstrate the logical
fallacy. You could just say Jim Jones was a Christian Jim Jones - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
but since he was behind a mass murder/suicide Christians will say he wasn't a real Christian
hence the No True Scotsman.
I will say this about Hitler, though. He could have repented to Jesus before he died and gone to
heaven but those six million Jews he killed would still go to hell - according to Christianity. Now
that's just plain messed up.
Last edited:
D
You are being dishonest by claiming Hitler was a Christian by only pointing out that his speeches included Christian rhetoric. Look back at my post again and you can read that I admitted he did make these comments. However, you ignore my other comments as if posting them proves me wrong. It really proves that you are not being driven by intellect or honesty, but intolerance, animus and bigotry towards people of faith.
You have done nothing but prove you rely on straw men and logical fallacies to prop up your juvenile claims.
You have done nothing but prove you rely on straw men and logical fallacies to prop up your juvenile claims.
Are Catholic priests that rape little boys not true Christians?
How about this guy?
Pastor Ted Haggard
"In November 2006, escort and masseur Mike Jones alleged that Haggard had paid him for sex for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine.[SUP][1][/SUP] A few days later Haggard resigned from all of his leadership positions."
This guy?
Creationist Kent Hovind convicted of tax fraud and a professional liar.
The Westboro Baptist Church?
They claim to be Christians, pal.
Read this:
No True Scotsman: Embarrassing Christians are Still Christians. | Ask an Atheist
How about this guy?
Pastor Ted Haggard
"In November 2006, escort and masseur Mike Jones alleged that Haggard had paid him for sex for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine.[SUP][1][/SUP] A few days later Haggard resigned from all of his leadership positions."
This guy?
Creationist Kent Hovind convicted of tax fraud and a professional liar.
The Westboro Baptist Church?
They claim to be Christians, pal.
Read this:
No True Scotsman: Embarrassing Christians are Still Christians. | Ask an Atheist
No one has went to hell yet or no one can't judge whether if someone are going to hell or not; only one person decide that. It is written if a person that goes against the clean spirit in a soul, it is unforgivable because the spirit that dwell in them isn't clean and which it dislike clean spirits. Only thing that I had notice, Judas didn't continue to serve the spirit that had dwelt in him, but the Pharisees kept their spirits. Judas choose to die instead of living with and unclean spirit that had deceived him (So if his soul or the spirit that had deceived him, goes to hell). So it is up to God whether they go to hell or come into His presence. God know how to get to the bottom of things.
Genesis 3:13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
Genesis 3:13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
D
Another logical fallacy? Have you not learned anything here??
Yes, Christianity (Catholicism and Lutheranism) was the major religon in Germany and that proves Hitler was a Christian?
That is called guilt by association and it is a fallacy. "Steven King is a white man who writes horror stories. Therefore all white men write horror stories"
You are sinking to a new low. Take a logic class or a philosophy class. Your ignorance is showing.
Yes, Christianity (Catholicism and Lutheranism) was the major religon in Germany and that proves Hitler was a Christian?
That is called guilt by association and it is a fallacy. "Steven King is a white man who writes horror stories. Therefore all white men write horror stories"
You are sinking to a new low. Take a logic class or a philosophy class. Your ignorance is showing.
C
you wanna know why Kent Hovind was SET UP for tax frauds???
because NO ONE could prove any of his many statements about true science, false science and various conspiracies, false
Some of the best use you could make of your time would be to watch all his science vs evolutionism videos and see him demolishing the arguments of Hugh Ross who claims to be a christian but does not believe the Bible
because NO ONE could prove any of his many statements about true science, false science and various conspiracies, false
Some of the best use you could make of your time would be to watch all his science vs evolutionism videos and see him demolishing the arguments of Hugh Ross who claims to be a christian but does not believe the Bible
D
Exactly. Hitler went thru the motions of being a catholic to get the sheep to follow him. After he was in power, he attempted to destroy Christianity and the pastors and priest who defied him were imprisoned, tortured, executed or all of the above. Yes Hitler did Catholic things in front of a camera, but it is pure ignorance to claim Hitler was a Catholic.
D
Hitler cut out Pastor Dietrich Bonhoffer's tongue and had it sent to his wife. Bonhoffer's crime was he refused to allow a Nazi flag and a portrait of Hitler in the church. Bonhoffer was tortured, beaten and finally executed as the Americans came close to the prison he was in. While in prison he wrote a book that is still in print today titled "The cost of discipleship". He was a brave man and inspired many other pastors to protest the co opting of Christianity and the paid for that defiance of Hitler with their blood.
Meanwhile Sweatsavour tries in vain to argue that Hitler was a great catholic. How absurd.
Children in school, each morning had to sing a song about how Hitler was their savior which was sung to the Lord's prayer. . Later Hitler tried to create a new religion to extinguish Christianity. How blissfully ignorant can one be?
Meanwhile Sweatsavour tries in vain to argue that Hitler was a great catholic. How absurd.
Children in school, each morning had to sing a song about how Hitler was their savior which was sung to the Lord's prayer. . Later Hitler tried to create a new religion to extinguish Christianity. How blissfully ignorant can one be?
K
1. This is the story from the Jewish Talmud, and the Book of Enoch, not from the bible. NOthing in the Bible is inconsistent. Granted it's speculation, but is speculation by people who were much closer to the events than we are today, and who spoke the language of the bible quite fluently, which we do not.
2. A possessed man still can make babies. The fallen angels did not make the babies, the men possessed by them did.
3. Josephus says they did, one in brick, one in stone. The Book of Jubilees says this record was copied by Cainan (he is the extra name in the geneology of Jesus in Luke, not in the matching passage in Genesis). I think, from linguistic comparison, he changed his name to Menes and founded Egypt. These records were collected and stored at Onu and are mentioned several times in Egyptian history.
4. Someone sent me a better link by pm when we were doing this last spring. A dozen html pages with pictures and detailed documentation. For now, this is the best I can find GIANTS OF THE BIBLE
5. Immediately is a vague term here. They would not have possessed Noah's immediate family as his righteousness caused him to watch out for them; there is specific mention of this fact in the account of Cainan I mentioned. The technology was in active use until the tower of Babel confusion of languages. Goliath and brothers certainly was created after the Flood.
6. You are correct. The fallen angels did what Jesus said demons do. They wandered around earth looking for someone else to go into.
Please tell me what false doctrines would arise from following this to its conclusion.
2. A possessed man still can make babies. The fallen angels did not make the babies, the men possessed by them did.
3. Josephus says they did, one in brick, one in stone. The Book of Jubilees says this record was copied by Cainan (he is the extra name in the geneology of Jesus in Luke, not in the matching passage in Genesis). I think, from linguistic comparison, he changed his name to Menes and founded Egypt. These records were collected and stored at Onu and are mentioned several times in Egyptian history.
4. Someone sent me a better link by pm when we were doing this last spring. A dozen html pages with pictures and detailed documentation. For now, this is the best I can find GIANTS OF THE BIBLE
5. Immediately is a vague term here. They would not have possessed Noah's immediate family as his righteousness caused him to watch out for them; there is specific mention of this fact in the account of Cainan I mentioned. The technology was in active use until the tower of Babel confusion of languages. Goliath and brothers certainly was created after the Flood.
6. You are correct. The fallen angels did what Jesus said demons do. They wandered around earth looking for someone else to go into.
Please tell me what false doctrines would arise from following this to its conclusion.