Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same God?

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chestertonrules

Banned
#21
Aug 28, 2013
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#21
didymos said:
Oh and btw:
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

(John 14:6)


Nuf said...
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From the first paragraph of the Catholic Catechism:

PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."[SUP]1[/SUP] "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."[SUP]2[/SUP] "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"[SUP]3[/SUP] - than the name of JESUS.
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#22
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#22
The Koran says to lay and wait for Christians and Jews and behead them.

You will know them by their fruits.

If you watch that video you will see the Catholic church started Islam, ex catholic jesuit priests like Rivera explain it was to conquer jerusalem, but they got out of hand.
 
crossnote

crossnote

Senior Member
#23
Nov 24, 2012
30,721
3,659
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#23
chestertonrules said:
From the first paragraph of the Catholic Catechism:

PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."[SUP]1[/SUP] "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."[SUP]2[/SUP] "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"[SUP]3[/SUP] - than the name of JESUS.
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Thanks for then update but their confessions also state 'those who hold that a man is justified by faith alone are accursed' (Trent)...oops, back into the ecumenical camp.
 
Starcrash

Starcrash

Banned
#24
Aug 5, 2013
624
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#24
watcher2013 said:
From the Catechism of Catholic Church

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[SUP]330[/SUP]

Based from the above catechism and as highlighted in red, Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same god?
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Well, Christianity and Islam are both Abrahamic traditions, which means that they both subscribe to the Old Testament as being a part of their respective bibles, and so each of them does claim that "the God of the Old Testament" is their own god. I wouldn't confuse that as an argument that both religions are the same, though, or that they both ascribe the same qualities to their respective gods. Both religions have "changed" the god of the Old Testament to fit with their own theologies.
 
D

didymos

Guest
#25
#25
chestertonrules said:
From the first paragraph of the Catholic Catechism:

PROLOGUE
"FATHER, . . . this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent."[SUP]1[/SUP] "God our Savior desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth."[SUP]2[/SUP] "There is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved"[SUP]3[/SUP] - than the name of JESUS.
Click to expand...

So the catechism is contradicting itself?

Why am i not surprised....
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#26
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#26
Sanashankar said:
We should ask Catholics
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The question deserves an answer from a catholic POV.
Muslims are worshiping the Jehovah God. the God of old testament. Now who is Jehovah is another question. For me it is Jesus Christ.
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Why Jesus said the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob???That is to be precise that you are worshipping the True God.

Abraham had many sons, and all of them have their own gods. (and a possibility that the name Abraham became a common name after him (just speculating) we are not sure whose Abraham we/you are talking about)
That is Why Jesus was very specific, that the God he was talking is the God of Abraham, also of Isaac (not Ishmael), and this God is also the God of Jacob (not Esau).

This is why we need to know who is the God we worship.
 
curlyafropuff

curlyafropuff

Banned
#27
Aug 20, 2013
53
0
0
#27
It can get really pagan because that, God the this... and God the that... gets real mirky. Before you know it the sun, stars, moon, Holy Ghost, grass, trees, Holy Spirit, wreaths, Allah, xmas tree, wood, stones, Pope, Jesus, tower, wall, etc.... all become Gods. Before you realize, it starts to appear as if not only do the Catholics and Muslims serve different Gods, but the so do the Christians.

Heaven help us all.
 
W

watcher2013

Senior Member
#28
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
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#28
RedTent said:
My neighbor who is an ex nun and works in the catholic church visits me daily, and we speak together daily about our Lord. We pray together. She tells me what she knows of the bible. We disagree about ways she is worshipping, it is true, but this woman knows the one true God.
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Here is a part of the text of the Pope speech on March 2013

"I greet and thank cordially all of you, dear friends belonging to other religious traditions; firstly the Muslims, who worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon Him in prayer."

Here's the link to the whole text Full text of Pope Francis’s address to religious leaders | CatholicHerald.co.uk
 
Bowman

Bowman

Banned
#30
Nov 19, 2012
5,484
27
0
#30
watcher2013 said:
From the Catechism of Catholic Church

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[SUP]330[/SUP]

Based from the above catechism and as highlighted in red, Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same god?
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Muslims worship a false pagan Arab god.

Whoever wrote this was apparently unaware, or could not properly convey what they actually meant...
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#32
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
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#32
The "savior" of the muslims:

"He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima"

Fatima is name for Mary.
 
Drett

Drett

Senior Member
#33
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
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#33
Hizikyah said:
The Koran says to lay and wait for Christians and Jews and behead them.

You will know them by their fruits.

If you watch that video you will see the Catholic church started Islam, ex catholic jesuit priests like Rivera explain it was to conquer jerusalem, but they got out of hand.
Click to expand...
Can you provide this verse please ? When you provide the verse can you provide the verse before it and after it. It will probably save time.
 
Drett

Drett

Senior Member
#34
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#34
Hizikyah said:
The "savior" of the muslims:

"He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima"

Fatima is name for Mary.
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Fatima is the name for Fatima
 
M

Mammachickadee

Guest
#35
#35
Answering such a question truthfully cannot be done without addressing the fact that not all Catholics align with the same theology within the Catholic church. For those who are muslim: one can say that by contradicting the idea of salvation by grace through faith alone makes islam a humanistic religion. Certain catholics who believe a man can earn his way to heaven are also being humanistic simply by putting a requirement of their input for God to save them.
A growing trend between the two is a spirit of tolerance... almost to the point of universalist unitarianism.
 
Drett

Drett

Senior Member
#36
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
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#36
Hizikyah said:
The "savior" of the muslims:

"He will be a descendant of Muhammad and the son of Fatima"

Fatima is name for Mary.
Click to expand...
This is Shia doctrine. They make up less than 10% of Muslims. They are the Mormons of the Muslim world. :)
 
Hizikyah

Hizikyah

Senior Member
#37
Aug 25, 2013
11,634
372
0
#37
Drett said:
Can you provide this verse please ? When you provide the verse can you provide the verse before it and after it. It will probably save time.
Click to expand...
First I want to ask if you are muslim what is your view on these verses? Second tyhe verse I was looking for says something like, "lie in wait for the (christians and jew) and smite them on their necks." Can you produce this verses for me if you know it? Or is it a hadith? Also if you are angry at me all I am doing is quoting the Koran


Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

This is aimed at the person who trys to convert a muslim.

Qur'an 9:5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters (some translations say polytheists) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Qur'an 8:012: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Any that dont call themselves muslim can fall into this category, meaning any who dont follow what was revealed to Muhammad. if you are muslim you know the verses before and after this one. Some Korans even have in parenthesis christians and jews) if that is added or in original i do not know.

A Hadith

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
 
Drett

Drett

Senior Member
#40
Feb 16, 2013
1,663
38
48
#40
Hizikyah said:
First I want to ask if you are muslim what is your view on these verses? Second tyhe verse I was looking for says something like, "lie in wait for the (christians and jew) and smite them on their necks." Can you produce this verses for me if you know it? Or is it a hadith? Also if you are angry at me all I am doing is quoting the Koran


Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

This is aimed at the person who trys to convert a muslim.

Qur'an 9:5: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters (some translations say polytheists) wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Qur'an 8:012: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

Any that dont call themselves muslim can fall into this category, meaning any who dont follow what was revealed to Muhammad. if you are muslim you know the verses before and after this one. Some Korans even have in parenthesis christians and jews) if that is added or in original i do not know.

A Hadith

Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176: Narrated by 'Abdullah bin 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said, "You (i.e. Muslims) will fight with the Jews till some of them will hide behind stones. The stones will (betray them) saying, 'O 'Abdullah (i.e. slave of Allah)! There is a Jew hiding behind me; so kill him.'" Sahih Bukhari Hadith Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177: Narrated by Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
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OK I guess you are not going to post the verse before and after to help put it into context. At least you printed the whole verse. Makes more work for me now. :)

I'll have a look at this when I get a chance.
 
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