The Flood in Noah's day
- Thread starter Bookends
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Penguins do not just live in the arctics.
When you were in college and you were debating one of your professors on a given subject, how did your professor respond when your arguments deteriorated beyond the scope of rational thought? This in how I feel now.
The text says the flood was a global event - You say no it was not.
The text says the flood covered all the high mountains everywhere under heaven - You say no it did not.
The text says the flood destroyed all life on the earth - You say no it did not.
Just whose word do you think I should accept on this matter, yours or that of the inspired text?
You cannot bring your own ideas into the text and then try to reconstruct the grammar in such a way that you feel will create a synthesis between your theories and the plain language of the text. The text means exactly what it says and you are not saying what the text says.
It is acutely apparent that no matter how well or how plainly I present the text to you, you are not going to believe the text. In this I have failed. Perhaps someone else can assist you comprehending the text better than I. I simply have no patience with anyone who treats the grammatical structure of the text with such blatant disregard.
I wish you well.
When you were in college and you were debating one of your professors on a given subject, how did your professor respond when your arguments deteriorated beyond the scope of rational thought? This in how I feel now.
The text says the flood was a global event - You say no it was not.
The text says the flood covered all the high mountains everywhere under heaven - You say no it did not.
The text says the flood destroyed all life on the earth - You say no it did not.
Just whose word do you think I should accept on this matter, yours or that of the inspired text?
You cannot bring your own ideas into the text and then try to reconstruct the grammar in such a way that you feel will create a synthesis between your theories and the plain language of the text. The text means exactly what it says and you are not saying what the text says.
It is acutely apparent that no matter how well or how plainly I present the text to you, you are not going to believe the text. In this I have failed. Perhaps someone else can assist you comprehending the text better than I. I simply have no patience with anyone who treats the grammatical structure of the text with such blatant disregard.
I wish you well.
Which species would have lived near Noah, then?
Show us the Hebrew word, 'global'...
From the vantage point of Noah.
Local land as described by the place-names mentioned in the text.
I've shown plenty of scripture for my position.
The problem is that you are looking through YEC lenses...
Who said anything about Hebrew grammar, besides you?
Present your 'research' for review, like you said that you would...
Show us the Hebrew word, 'global'...
From the vantage point of Noah.
Local land as described by the place-names mentioned in the text.
I've shown plenty of scripture for my position.
The problem is that you are looking through YEC lenses...
Who said anything about Hebrew grammar, besides you?
Present your 'research' for review, like you said that you would...
Gen 9 12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life.
H
I know this wasn't directed at me, but I will answer it. The Flood caused the so-called ice-age. The poles froze quickly and the ice caps were enormous. When the non-frozen floodwaters were newly receded because the ocean basins had collapsed, all of the continental shelves were above sea level. For a time, the continents were not isolated from each other and anybody, (people, animals, birds, et al) were able to migrate to any continent by walking. As the polar caps melted off, the continents became isolated from each other, different synergistic ecosystems developed, and organisms adapted to their respective environments. So for the last 4400 years, we haven't experienced "global warming". It's been "global thawing".
Where did you get this info from?
Ice age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This says that we are technically still in one that started 2.6 million years ago.
Quite a ways off from 4400 years.
Ice age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This says that we are technically still in one that started 2.6 million years ago.
Quite a ways off from 4400 years.
R
Ah makes sense it would take days to load. So 7 days of entering.
----------------
Completely unrelated, just to avoid a separate post, imagine the faith it would have taken to even start on the ark, much less finish, collect animals and board it knowing
How a ridiculously huge and purposely mis-engineered request for one man with or without sons.
To seal it with pitch, yet follow the instruction for a door on the side of something supposed to be water worthy, instead of loading it from the top with a ramp.
Putting a window a forearm's length above the deck, in a vessel that is going to be rained on for 40 days and tossed in waves.
And Noah's surreal experience when God miraculously made that what-the-heck door waterproof in front of his eyes.
You go Noah.
----------------
Completely unrelated, just to avoid a separate post, imagine the faith it would have taken to even start on the ark, much less finish, collect animals and board it knowing
How a ridiculously huge and purposely mis-engineered request for one man with or without sons.
To seal it with pitch, yet follow the instruction for a door on the side of something supposed to be water worthy, instead of loading it from the top with a ramp.
Putting a window a forearm's length above the deck, in a vessel that is going to be rained on for 40 days and tossed in waves.
And Noah's surreal experience when God miraculously made that what-the-heck door waterproof in front of his eyes.
You go Noah.
The Implications of Faith
A. To the unbeliever, biblical faith is regarded as an exercise in irrationality. Reasoning strictly from the historical context of Noah's day, there is no rational or logic, behind Noah's building of the ark. To those around him this would appear to be a completely irrational effort. Why?
1. There is no historical precedence. There had never been a flood of any description before in all the history of humanity up to that time.
2. There was no material evidence to prove:
a. That God had told Noah anything.
b. That a flood was even possible.
c. That there was any conceivable need for a boat of such massive dimensions.
B. The building of the ark rested on a single antecedent – The Words of the Lord!
There are no natural antecedents present. Acting on faith without any appeal to rational considerations resulted in.
1. The salvation of his family.
2. The condemnation of the world
3. His receiving the inheritance of righteousness.
What are the consequences of the rational mind? Ask those who did not make it aboard the ark.
Genesis 7:20
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. Let's say the average cubic in those days was 25 inches, very generous figure here because that average cubit is 17.5" . Do the math and the flood was 31 feet high, That's some low lying mountains. To say all mountains were this low at that time is stretch for me. But is conceivable for me, that whole world was flooded to this height, killing off everything in the region where men inhabited, but leaving some animals alive in other far lands on higher mountains, or this case hills. It's also conceivable to me that God could have supernaturally prevented the spread of these Global waters beyond the region as well (we know He can do it).
Gen. 7:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. Earth, H776, erets, could be interpreted land (a regional area and often is what it means) or the whole earth the globe. You know this...Therefore it isn't a stretch to say all flesh died that moved on the land (localized to humanity, the regional area), birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the land (again referring the localized area) and every man. This is not outside the bounds of Hebrew interpretation.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered. Let's say the average cubic in those days was 25 inches, very generous figure here because that average cubit is 17.5" . Do the math and the flood was 31 feet high, That's some low lying mountains. To say all mountains were this low at that time is stretch for me. But is conceivable for me, that whole world was flooded to this height, killing off everything in the region where men inhabited, but leaving some animals alive in other far lands on higher mountains, or this case hills. It's also conceivable to me that God could have supernaturally prevented the spread of these Global waters beyond the region as well (we know He can do it).
Gen. 7:21
[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all flesh died that moved on the earth: birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the earth, and every man. Earth, H776, erets, could be interpreted land (a regional area and often is what it means) or the whole earth the globe. You know this...Therefore it isn't a stretch to say all flesh died that moved on the land (localized to humanity, the regional area), birds and cattle and beasts and every creeping thing that creeps on the land (again referring the localized area) and every man. This is not outside the bounds of Hebrew interpretation.
Here is the genealogical record. I am confident it will not serve you well because you seem to have no regard for whatever scripture tells you. However, I gave you my word that I would provide you with this information so here it is.
Please bother me no more. I try to reserve my time for people who have a genuine desire to listen and learn. You are not one of them.
Please bother me no more. I try to reserve my time for people who have a genuine desire to listen and learn. You are not one of them.
Here is the genealogical record.
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM ADAM TO NOAH
By Glen Rogers
All following dates are A.C. - After Creation with the creation of Adam representing year one.
Adam is 130 when Seth is born. Seth dies at 912. Seth lived from 130 to 1024.
235 - Enosh - He dies at 905. He lived from 235 to 1140.
325 - Kenan - He dies at 910. He lived from 325 to 1235.
395 - Mahalalel - He dies at 895. He lived from 395 to 1290.
460 - Jared - He dies at 962. He lived from 460 to 1422.
622 - Enoch - He lives 365 years. He lived from 622 to 987.
687 - Methuselah - He dies at 969. He lived from 687 to 1656.
874 - Lamach - He dies at 777. He lived from 874 to 1651.
930 - Adam dies. He lived from year 1 to 930.
1056 - Noah is born. He lived from 1056 to 2006
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM NOAH TO NAHOR
Noah is born in the year 1056 A.C.
Noah is 503 when Shem is born. Shem dies at 600. He lived from 1559 - 2159.
600 in the year of the flood - 1656 - 1657.
603 - Arpachad - He dies at 438. He lived from 1659 - 2097
638 - Shelah - He dies at 433. He lived from 1694 - 2127
668 - Eber - He dies at 464. He lived from 1724 - 2188
702 - Peleg - He dies at 239. He lived from 1758 - 1997
732 - Reu - He dies at 239
TOWER OF BABEL - between 1870 and 1900 A.C. The exact time cannot be established but, we do know that this event happened in the days of Peleg.
764 - Serug - He dies at 230. He lived from1820 - 1900
794 - Nahor - He dies at 148. He lived from 1850 - 1998
823 - Terah - He dies at 205. He lived from 1879 - 2084
941 - Peleg dies in the year 1997
942 - Nahor dies in the year 1998
950 - Noah dies in the year 200
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM SHEM TO ISAAC
Shem is born in the year 1559.
He is 450 when Abraham is born in the year 2009
468 - Reu dies in 2027
491 - Serug dies in 2027
536 - Ishmael is born in 2095
538 - Arpachshad dies in 2097
550 - Isaac in 2109
568 - Shelah dies in 2127
590 - Isaac marries in 2149
600 - Shem dies in 2159
Isaac was born in the year 2109
He is 60 when Jacob and Esau are born.
75 - Abraham dies in 2159
159 - Eber dies in 2188. The last of the ancient patriarchs
180 - Isaac dies in 2289
The Time Line of Jacob.
Jacob is born when Isaac is 60 in the year 2169.
With Jacob's time line one sort of has to work backward in time.
1. He is 76 when he flees to Haran.
2. He is 83 when he marries Leah and Rachel.
3. He is 90 when Joseph is born.
4. He is 96 when he leaves Pandanaram.
5. He is 107 when Joseph is sold into slavery.
6. He is 120 when Isaac dies at 180 because Jacob is born when Isaac is 60 years old,
35:28 and 25:26.
7. He is 130 when he moves to Egypt in the second hear of the famine, 47:9 and 45:6-11.
Jacob survives the famine for two years in Canaan.
8. He lived in Egypt 17 years and dies at 147 years old, 47:27-28.
B. Joseph
1. He is 6 when they leave Pandanaram.
2. He is 17 when sold into slavery, 37:2.
3. He is 30 when he is appointed Governor of Egypt 41:46. This is the same year Isaac dies in the 120th year of Jacob.
4. Let us allow one year for Joseph to build the necessary infrastructure "in all the cities" to accommodate the seven years of plenty. This would require the appointment of overseers - 41:34, the building of storage facilities, etc. The good years are coming but, are not here yet, there is still time to make preparations, verse 35. If this is
accomplished in one year, Joseph is 31 in the first year of the seven years of plenty.
5. He is 37 when Manasseh and Ephraim are born in the year before the famine, 41:50. They are twins.
6. He is 38 when the famine begins.
7. He is 40 when Jacob moves to Egypt, 45:6.
8. He is 57 when Jacob dies.
9. He dies himself at 110 years old, 50:26.
10. When Joseph dies, Manasseh and Ephraim are 73.
There are no provable gaps in this genealogical sequence.
There are provable gaps in the genealogical records of Matthew and Luke because we can
measure those lists against those of the genealogical records in the O.T.
The accuracy of the genealogical record of Genesis is confirmed by the record given in 1 Chronicles. The record on the seed line is exactly the same and unbroken. The reason is so that an unbroken seed line can be established from Adam to Abraham
Adam,
Seth,
Enosh,
Kenan,
Mahalalel,
Jared,
Enoch,
Methuselah,
Lamech,
Noah,
Shem,
Arpachshad,
Shelah
Eber.
Peleg,
Reu,S
Serug, N
ahor,
Terah,
Abram,
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM ADAM TO NOAH
By Glen Rogers
All following dates are A.C. - After Creation with the creation of Adam representing year one.
Adam is 130 when Seth is born. Seth dies at 912. Seth lived from 130 to 1024.
235 - Enosh - He dies at 905. He lived from 235 to 1140.
325 - Kenan - He dies at 910. He lived from 325 to 1235.
395 - Mahalalel - He dies at 895. He lived from 395 to 1290.
460 - Jared - He dies at 962. He lived from 460 to 1422.
622 - Enoch - He lives 365 years. He lived from 622 to 987.
687 - Methuselah - He dies at 969. He lived from 687 to 1656.
874 - Lamach - He dies at 777. He lived from 874 to 1651.
930 - Adam dies. He lived from year 1 to 930.
1056 - Noah is born. He lived from 1056 to 2006
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM NOAH TO NAHOR
Noah is born in the year 1056 A.C.
Noah is 503 when Shem is born. Shem dies at 600. He lived from 1559 - 2159.
600 in the year of the flood - 1656 - 1657.
603 - Arpachad - He dies at 438. He lived from 1659 - 2097
638 - Shelah - He dies at 433. He lived from 1694 - 2127
668 - Eber - He dies at 464. He lived from 1724 - 2188
702 - Peleg - He dies at 239. He lived from 1758 - 1997
732 - Reu - He dies at 239
TOWER OF BABEL - between 1870 and 1900 A.C. The exact time cannot be established but, we do know that this event happened in the days of Peleg.
764 - Serug - He dies at 230. He lived from1820 - 1900
794 - Nahor - He dies at 148. He lived from 1850 - 1998
823 - Terah - He dies at 205. He lived from 1879 - 2084
941 - Peleg dies in the year 1997
942 - Nahor dies in the year 1998
950 - Noah dies in the year 200
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM SHEM TO ISAAC
Shem is born in the year 1559.
He is 450 when Abraham is born in the year 2009
468 - Reu dies in 2027
491 - Serug dies in 2027
536 - Ishmael is born in 2095
538 - Arpachshad dies in 2097
550 - Isaac in 2109
568 - Shelah dies in 2127
590 - Isaac marries in 2149
600 - Shem dies in 2159
GENESIS
GENEOLOGY FROM ISAAC TO JOSEPH
GENEOLOGY FROM ISAAC TO JOSEPH
Isaac was born in the year 2109
He is 60 when Jacob and Esau are born.
75 - Abraham dies in 2159
159 - Eber dies in 2188. The last of the ancient patriarchs
180 - Isaac dies in 2289
The Time Line of Jacob.
Jacob is born when Isaac is 60 in the year 2169.
With Jacob's time line one sort of has to work backward in time.
1. He is 76 when he flees to Haran.
2. He is 83 when he marries Leah and Rachel.
3. He is 90 when Joseph is born.
4. He is 96 when he leaves Pandanaram.
5. He is 107 when Joseph is sold into slavery.
6. He is 120 when Isaac dies at 180 because Jacob is born when Isaac is 60 years old,
35:28 and 25:26.
7. He is 130 when he moves to Egypt in the second hear of the famine, 47:9 and 45:6-11.
Jacob survives the famine for two years in Canaan.
8. He lived in Egypt 17 years and dies at 147 years old, 47:27-28.
B. Joseph
1. He is 6 when they leave Pandanaram.
2. He is 17 when sold into slavery, 37:2.
3. He is 30 when he is appointed Governor of Egypt 41:46. This is the same year Isaac dies in the 120th year of Jacob.
4. Let us allow one year for Joseph to build the necessary infrastructure "in all the cities" to accommodate the seven years of plenty. This would require the appointment of overseers - 41:34, the building of storage facilities, etc. The good years are coming but, are not here yet, there is still time to make preparations, verse 35. If this is
accomplished in one year, Joseph is 31 in the first year of the seven years of plenty.
5. He is 37 when Manasseh and Ephraim are born in the year before the famine, 41:50. They are twins.
6. He is 38 when the famine begins.
7. He is 40 when Jacob moves to Egypt, 45:6.
8. He is 57 when Jacob dies.
9. He dies himself at 110 years old, 50:26.
10. When Joseph dies, Manasseh and Ephraim are 73.
There are no provable gaps in this genealogical sequence.
There are provable gaps in the genealogical records of Matthew and Luke because we can
measure those lists against those of the genealogical records in the O.T.
The accuracy of the genealogical record of Genesis is confirmed by the record given in 1 Chronicles. The record on the seed line is exactly the same and unbroken. The reason is so that an unbroken seed line can be established from Adam to Abraham
Adam,
Seth,
Enosh,
Kenan,
Mahalalel,
Jared,
Enoch,
Methuselah,
Lamech,
Noah,
Shem,
Arpachshad,
Shelah
Eber.
Peleg,
Reu,S
Serug, N
ahor,
Terah,
Abram,
Last edited:
Apparently, the author of your article did not know that the oldest extant copies of the OT reside in the LXX...and that the dates are entirely different!
For example, the interval between the flood and the birth of Abraham is 292 years according to the Hebrew, and 1172 years in the LXX....which one do you want to use, brother?
Summation of genealogical dates is not warranted to find out when the earth began no more than it does when it will end!
For example, the interval between the flood and the birth of Abraham is 292 years according to the Hebrew, and 1172 years in the LXX....which one do you want to use, brother?
Summation of genealogical dates is not warranted to find out when the earth began no more than it does when it will end!
Last edited:
Perhaps you want to look a little closer at 1 Chron., to that of Bezaleel (1 Chron 2.18 - 20) which records seven generations from Jacob...to that of Joshua (1 Chron 7.23 - 27) which records eleven!
Again...which one do you go with?
Is it a coin toss?
Its a slippery slope attempting to sum something that was never mandated as such by scripture...
Again...which one do you go with?
Is it a coin toss?
Its a slippery slope attempting to sum something that was never mandated as such by scripture...