Do Catholics and Muslims worship the same God?

[Hizikyah]

OK I guess you are not going to post the verse before and after to help put it into context. At least you printed the whole verse. Makes more work for me now.

I'll have a look at this when I get a chance.

Im tired and didnt want to type a ton.

 

[willfollowsGod]

When it comes to this question, I don't believe Catholics and Muslims worship the same God. Some may claim that, but it is not true. Also, there are different kinds of Catholics, so you have to look at it also on an individual basis and not just the Vatican City website, etc. It can be pretty complicated. But it is a tough question and I believe a commonly asked question. God bless.

 

[Drett]

Qur'an 2:191: And kill them wherever you find them, and drive them out from whence they drove you out, and persecution is severer than slaughter, and do not fight with them at the Sacred Mosque until they fight with you in it, but if they do fight you, then slay them; such is the recompense of the unbelievers.

I think I'll tackle this one at a time.

If they attack you then you have a right to fight back.

The next verse.

And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

If they stop then you stop.

 

[Saved_Forever]

Islam and Christianity DO NOT share the same god. Muhammad made it VERY CLEAR on this point.

Sura 4:171 O People of the Scripture, do not commit excess in your religion or say about Allah except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was but a messenger of Allah and His word which He directed to Mary and a soul [created at a command] from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers. And do not say, "Three"; desist - it is better for you. Indeed, Allah is but one God. Exalted is He above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And sufficient is Allah as Disposer of affairs.

Sura 5:73 They have certainly disbelieved who say, " Allah is the third of three." And there is no god except one God. And if they do not desist from what they are saying, there will surely afflict the disbelievers among them a painful punishment.

Sura 5:116 And [beware the Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, 'Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'" He will say, "Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.

They (Muslims) can't even get the trinity correct even if it is definitely wrong. It is NOT the Father, Son and MARY?? Huh? It's the holy spirit, not Mary.

Also, this kills the possibility that we share the same God.

Sura 19:88-93 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous! At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin, that they should invoke a son for (Allah) Most Gracious. For it is not consonant with the majesty of (Allah) Most Gracious that He should beget a son. Not one of the beings in the heavens and the earth but must come to (Allah) Most Gracious as a servant.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:

What's really bad is that Muhammad instructed his Muslim followers to read the protected book of the Torah and injeel. What's an injeel, you may ask? That is the Gospel. Since Muslims do not have an Islamic injeel, it must be the Bible! Here are those references.

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Injeel judge by what God has revealed in it. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what God has revealed, they are those who rebel.

Sura 3:3 Allah revealed the Quran upon you with you (Muhammed) with truth to confirm what He revealed before it and He revealed the Injeel and the Torah.

Sura 5:110 [The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."



So, this goes to show you that Islam is DEFINITELY not the same God as they lead you to believe. They perform a Taqiyya on the infidels. That's us. It is very difficult to tell if that is not the case. This word means "lying" and it is completely allowed to practice in Islam. Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a good example of lying, the Islamic way! Muslim Cleric: How to Lie about Islam - YouTube

These are THEIR WORDS taken right out of their own sources. If these statements I just brought forth are not true, then why are they written so clearly in their books? Just something to think about.

 

[Saved_Forever]

I think I'll tackle this one at a time.

If they attack you then you have a right to fight back.

The next verse.

And if they cease, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

If they stop then you stop.

That reference is defensive Jihad. Is that what you are going to say when you get to the offensive Jihad such as Sura 9:5? What you quoted is correct. That applies to Sura 2 simply because the Muslims during that time did not have enough men to have a strong army. Mecca was the time, during the beginning of Muhammad's Islamic beginnings were peaceful. That's how it always works nowadays. It didn't start out that way though. Muhammad tried the peaceful way, at first. The Meccans wanted nothing to do with his beliefs. Muhammad then moved to Medina and there built up an army. He did make a 4 month agreement, if I remember correctly, with the Meccans but when that treaty was over, Sura 9:5 commenced. From that day on, ALL Muslims are COMMANDED by Muhammad to kill the non believers.

That's the real story! History doesn't lie.

 

[Drett]

no, drett, according to the Father's Word:

1 John 2:23
22Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son. 23Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father; the one who confesses the Son has the Father also.

i love you
zone

Thanks for your concern

 

[Drett]

Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Again the next verse brings it into context.

4:90 Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people.
Had Allah willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you.
So, if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah has made no way for you against them.

Again when one side stops the other stops.

 

[Drett]

So, this goes to show you that Islam is DEFINITELY not the same God as they lead you to believe. They perform a Taqiyya on the infidels. That's us. It is very difficult to tell if that is not the case. This word means "lying" and it is completely allowed to practice in Islam. Taqiyya - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is a good example of lying, the Islamic way! Muslim Cleric: How to Lie about Islam - YouTube

These are THEIR WORDS taken right out of their own sources. If these statements I just brought forth are not true, then why are they written so clearly in their books? Just something to think about.

Taqiyya is a Shia belief. Shia make up less than 10% of Muslims. Some people like to lump all Muslims under taqiyya to dishonestly get out of a debate when they are backed into a corner.

 

[Drett]

Im tired and didnt want to type a ton.

No worries, if you are going to make statements on public forums you should back it up.

 

[Drett]

That reference is defensive Jihad. Is that what you are going to say when you get to the offensive Jihad such as Sura 9:5? What you quoted is correct. That applies to Sura 2 simply because the Muslims during that time did not have enough men to have a strong army. Mecca was the time, during the beginning of Muhammad's Islamic beginnings were peaceful. That's how it always works nowadays. It didn't start out that way though. Muhammad tried the peaceful way, at first. The Meccans wanted nothing to do with his beliefs. Muhammad then moved to Medina and there built up an army. He did make a 4 month agreement, if I remember correctly, with the Meccans but when that treaty was over, Sura 9:5 commenced. From that day on, ALL Muslims are COMMANDED by Muhammad to kill the non believers.

That's the real story! History doesn't lie.

The next two verses

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

Again do not fight unless they fight against you.

 

[CNikki]

Growing up I was told that other religions were not worshiping the same God, so no. Muslims don't see Jesus in the same way that the Christians/Catholics do and deny the fact he even died on the cross.

 

[Drett]

That's the real story! History doesn't lie.

Do you think Christian history matches it's scripture ?

 

[David_1]

Of course the assertion of the OP, would be that Jews and certain protestant denominations worship the true God, and that Catholics are now the same as Moslems. This has creepy overtones of this new Hebrew, messianic Christian thing that aligns with the false narrative created by the Christian Right in america to support all things Empire, by the rich 1% in America who want to control the oil in the middle east (and who do not care one bit for Christianity).

How can you even have protestantism or the bible without the early Catholic Church.

The OP displays severe ignorance, and displays symptoms of brainwashing that comes from Republican propaganda.

It's offensive to all true and real Christians.

 

[7seven7]

Here is a part of the text of the Pope speech on March 2013

"I greet and thank cordially all of you, dear friends belonging to other religious traditions; firstly the Muslims, who worship the one living and merciful God, and call upon Him in prayer."

Here's the link to the whole text Full text of Pope Francis’s address to religious leaders | CatholicHerald.co.uk

This is straight out of the catechism of the Catholic Church. Might explain why the pope shows respect to Muslims like he does to people of ALL faiths, and people of no faith.

841 The Church's relationship with the Muslims. "The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."[SUP]330[/SUP]

842 The Church's bond with non-Christian religions is in the first place the common origin and end of the human race:
All nations form but one community. This is so because all stem from the one stock which God created to people the entire earth, and also because all share a common destiny, namely God. His providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend to all against the day when the elect are gathered together in the holy city. . .[SUP]331
[/SUP]
843 The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life."[SUP]332

Catholics and Muslims believe in the same God, the God Who will judge us at the end of time. We just have a different understanding of Him.
[/SUP]

 

[watcher2013]

So the pope believes and understand that Muslims worship the one and living God.

Paul on the other hand, did not tolerate that kind of understanding, If he thinks they worship false gods he introduced to them the true God. (see Acts 17:23-32, Acts 19:26)

Muslims God have no Son.
Muslims believes in Jesus as a prophet.
Muslims believes in the miracle birth of Jesus.

This is the god whom the pope believes to be the true god worshipped by Muslims and embedded in the catechism of the catholic church.

 

[notuptome]

Descendants of Cain, Ishmael, and Esau? All who rejected the promises of God and forfeited their inheritance? Islam is sworn to the destruction of Israel. Do these worship the God Who is God?

It is interesting to watch some defend the Catholics by defending the Muslims. Universalism at its best?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Saved_Forever]

The next two verses

And if any one of the polytheists seeks your protection, then grant him protection so that he may hear the words of Allah . Then deliver him to his place of safety. That is because they are a people who do not know.

How can there be for the polytheists a treaty in the sight of Allah and with His Messenger, except for those with whom you made a treaty at al-Masjid al-Haram? So as long as they are upright toward you, be upright toward them. Indeed, Allah loves the righteous [who fear Him].

Again do not fight unless they fight against you.

Stop twisting your own book around and try to butter up the word with lies. What it is really saying is that they will protect you IF you are going to be one of them. If that turns out to be false, then Sura 9:5 happens or better yet, 9:29.

Sura 9:29 Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

There are NO conditions applied here. If somebody doesn't worship Allah, then he must die. Islam is "Submission" If non believers will pay you, them maybe they get to live. Even that is hatred towards non believers. Muslims like to subdue their captives. I don't know if it is better to pay their taxes or die. Either way it is under Muslim control. Worst yet, it is Muslim control in the non Muslim land. What do you think will happen if a non Muslim went into a Muslim land and started demanding equal rights? That gets answered later.

Also, Allah loves who? The righteous. That will be only the Muslims and only them. What does Allah think about the rest of us?

Sura 98:6 Verily, those who disbelieve (in the religion of Islâm, the Qur’ân and Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) from among the people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and Al-Mushrikûn will abide in the Fire of Hell. They are the worst of creatures.

Sura 98:7 Verily, those who believe [in the Oneness of Allâh, and in His Messenger Muhammad (Peace be upon him)) including all obligations ordered by Islâm] and do righteous good deeds, they are the best of creatures.


There's many more. Tell the truth for once. I know Islam and what you said isn't it. Let the Christian readers make the decision. We can read too. We don't need the words of the Quran twisted around to make it look good. We want to know what it really means. Let us decide. Sura 9:5 and 9:29 clearly states to KILL the non believer BUT if this non believer pays you "jizya" which is a tax that only non Muslims have to pay like money, property, like livestock, their women or whatever, then they may live, for now. This is what the first generation Muslims did because Muhammad did it as well. Saudi Arabia started enforcing this practice, The practice of control in the homeland of Islam which is Saudi Arabia. I found this statement on wikipedia that was compelling that I feel it needs to be said again Here's an excerpt on it and you can look it up at this web site. Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In 2010, the U.S. State Department stated that in Saudi Arabia "freedom of religion is neither recognized nor protected under the law and is severely restricted in practice" and that "government policies continued to place severe restrictions on religious freedom".[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-irf2010-210[/SUP] No faith other than Islam is permitted to be practiced, although there are nearly a million Christians – nearly all foreign workers – in Saudi Arabia.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-Times-211[/SUP] There are no churches or other non-Muslim houses of worship permitted in the country.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-irf2010-210[/SUP] Even private prayer services are forbidden in practice and the Saudi religious police reportedly regularly search the homes of Christians.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-Times-211[/SUP] Foreign workers have to observe Ramadan but are not allowed to celebrate Christmas or Easter.[SUP]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saudi_Arabia#cite_note-Times-211[/SUP]

Tell Islam for what it really is. Stop lying and twisting it around. And yes. I do understand Islam. Completely. You can't lie about Islam to me.

 

[Saved_Forever]

Do you think Christian history matches it's scripture ?

The Bible is more consistent than Islam is. If I wanted to become a Muslim, I wouldn't know what to do. The Quran keeps contradicting itself. The examples are immense. It says one thing, then the total opposite of what it just said. I can clearly see why Sura 2:106 is necessary in the Quran. It's called Al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh which is Arabic for "the abrogator and abrogated" Here is that reference.

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][/FONT]Sura 2:106 We do not abrogate a verse or cause it to be forgotten except that We bring forth [one] better than it or similar to it. Do you not know that Allah is over all things competent?

Watch this video for a good explanation as to what the Imams and other Muslim scholars did to clean up the contradictions found throughout the entire Quran. The Quran's doctrine of abrogation - YouTube

Even your very own scholars have no choice to twist the word around or lie about it to make it look good.

 

[Hizikyah]

No worries, if you are going to make statements on public forums you should back it up.

I did by posting those verses.

"They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved"
Would this not apply to any from any other religion who tried to convert you? Being serious, you are muslim, I may be correct or you may know more than me about it and correct me.

Originally Posted by Hizikyah Qur'an 4:089: They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.

Originally Posted by Drett

Again the next verse brings it into context.
4:90 Except those who join a group, between you and whom there is a treaty (of peace), or those who approach you with their breasts restraining from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. Had Allah willed, indeed He would have given them power over you, and they would have fought you. So, if they withdraw from you, and fight not against you, and offer you peace, then Allah has made no way for you against them.

Again when one side stops the other stops.



You did not adress, "They desire that you should disbelieve.......then seize them and kill them wherever you find them."

My view is that NO MAN has the right to execute judgement on another, THAT IS FOR THE IS FOR THE CREATOR ONLY.

 

[Bowman]

Growing up I was told that other religions were not worshiping the same God, so no. Muslims don't see Jesus in the same way that the Christians/Catholics do and deny the fact he even died on the cross.

The curiosity here is that the Koran actually confirms that Jesus was crucified until death upon the cross, in more than one chapter.

This is a simple case of scriptural ignorance...