Attack of the seventh day adventists

[Hizikyah]

This is a bit misleading because the Greek does not say THE law (which suggests the law of Moses), but simply law. The implication being, of course, that faith (a commandment) is not lawless, but a commandment that fulfills the law of Moses. The other commandment is love. The one who does these two things has fulfilled all of the law of Moses and does not come under condemnation, and is well pleasing to GOD.

Ok show me a single one of these that can be broken and i am still loving?

LEVITICUS 19:10-18, "You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh."

 

[Hizikyah]

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

There is no contradiction, there may be misunderstanding, the same guy that wrote that wrote this:

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 8:7-8, "Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Also I have to ask you sincerely, i my be misunderstaning you, but why are you tring so hard to find reasons not to follow 1 or all of the Commandments?

I take great joy in obedience, you are very zealous I bet if you tried it you would also?

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall
love your hneighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

The Messiah didnt say destroy, or does away with, He said HANG ALL the............

There's no misunderstanding. Paul clearly says that only those who are disobedient to GOD, i.e., not led of the spirit to believe in him and love one's neighbor, are under law.

the Law is love:

1 Yahchanan 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yahweh: When we love Yahweh by keeping His Laws.
For this is the love of Yahweh: That we keep His Law, and His Law is not grievous."

any one can say they love but if one deos half of these following verses they have more love than most

LEVITICUS 19:10-18, "You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh."

 

[john832]

Let me see, What are Jesus' Commandments?

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

This is the same Jesus who says...

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

And says...

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

and says...

Luk 16:17 And it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one tittle of the law to fail.

So tell me, did the one who became Christ, the Word, the one who spoke the Ten Commandments from Mt. Sinai, the one who said not a tittle would fail from the Law, change His mind? Did He decide that the Laws He says will be here after heaven and earth pass away, decide to do something different? Is He of two minds? Bewildered and unable to give a set of Laws that can stand the test of time? Or are the Commandments still in force just as He says they are.

 

[Josh321]

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
[h=3]Matthew 7:22-23[/h]
[h=3]2 Timothy 3:1-13[/h]King James Version (KJV)

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.


[h=3]Matthew 7:6[/h]King James Version (KJV)

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Ok show me a single one of these that can be broken and i am still loving?

LEVITICUS 19:10-18, "You shall not glean your vineyard, nor shall you gather every grape of your vineyard. You shall leave them for the poor and the stranger; I am Yahweh your Father. You shall not steal, nor deal falsely, nor lie one to another. Do not vow falsely with My Name, and so profane the Name of your Father. I am Yahweh. You shall not defraud your neighbor, nor rob him. Do not hold back the wages of a hired man overnight. Do not curse the deaf or put a stumblingblock in front of the blind; but reverence your Father. I am Yahweh. Do not pervert judgment: You shall not show partiality to the poor, nor honor to the person of the great. In righteousness you shall judge your neighbor fairly. You shall not go about tale-bearing or slandering among your people. Do not do anything that endangers your neighbor's life. I am Yahweh. You shall not hate your neighbor in your heart. Rebuke your brother or your sister frankly, so you will not share in his or her guilt. Do not seek revenge nor bear a grudge against one of your own people; but you shall love your neighbor; whether a brother or an enemy, as yourself. I am Yahweh."

A loving heart wouldn't do those things...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

On my last post I meant that a loving heart would not do those things forbidden, but would do the other good things....

 

[Hizikyah]

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Matthew 7:22-23

Mattithyah 7:21-23, "Not everyone who says to Me; Teacher! Teacher! will enter into the Kingdom of Yahweh, but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day; Teacher! Teacher! Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your
Name performed many wonderful works? But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity."

"but only he who does the will of My Father Who is in heaven"

Deuteronomy 10:12-13, "And now, O Israyl, what does Yahweh your Father require of you, but to reverence Yahweh your Father by walking in all His ways, by loving Him, by serving Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, By keeping the Laws of Yahweh, with His statutes, which I command you
this day, so that you may be blessed?."

"Have we not prophesied in Your Name, and cast out demons in Your Name, and in Your
Name performed many wonderful works?"

Do Muslims do things in His Name? Buddists? Hare Krishnas? or Atherist? You get the point
This is a message to us! Followers of or people who claim to be followers of the Messiah.
If you tell me to mow your lawn in a CERTIAN manner, but I do it the way I choose, did I do it your way?

"But then I will declare to them; I never knew you. Get away from Me, you who practice iniquity!"
Iniquity is Word #458 from word #459, Greek Dictionary, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, meaning not subject to (Yahweh's) Laws, transgressor.

Revelation 22:12-15, "And behold, I come quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give every man according as his work will be. I am the First and the Last, the
Beginning and the End. Blessed are those who keep His Laws, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and everyone who professes to love, yet practices breaking the Law."

Mattithayh 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

We can not enter the Kingdom of Yahweh by the Law alone, but we can not make it by rejecting Yahweh's Law.

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Revelation 14:12, "In this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua Messiah."

 

[Josh321]

A loving heart wouldn't do those things...

you see.. that's what they don't understand they don't have the LOVE OF GOD IN THEM to know what love is if any of them had love that wouldn't even come to mind, nothing we can say to help them only God can, everytime i bring up the topic that we not suppose to keep it all of the adventist tell me * so what are we suppose to do kill steal kill etc and it won't be a problem?* does that person have christ in them? that would even think to say something like that? and they have too much pride to admit that they are wrong.. 8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. [h=3]1 John 4:8[/h]
[h=3]Romans 13:8-10[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

 

[Hizikyah]

2 Timothy 3:1-13

King James Version (KJV)

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
7Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.


Matthew 7:6

King James Version (KJV)

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

certianly submitting to yahweh is not denying his power, it is just the oppisite

reprobate = mind devoid of righteous judgement


Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

TRUTH

 

[Josh321]

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof

certianly submitting to yahweh is not denying his power, it is just the oppisite

reprobate = mind devoid of righteous judgement


Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

TRUTH

wanna know what forms of Godliness is? your still in the flesh not born again with the holy spirit but think your holy and denying the truth about salvation and thinking with a carnal mind and believing you are holy when your still in the flesh

and what that verse is saying about give not that which is holy unto the dogs, if they don't wanna listen just move on that's exactly what i am doing

 

[Hizikyah]

wanna know what forms of Godliness is? your still in the flesh not born again with the holy spirit but think your holy and denying the truth about salvation and thinking with a carnal mind and believing you are holy when your still in the flesh

and what that verse is saying about give not that which is holy unto the dogs, if they don't wanna listen just move on that's exactly what i am doing

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts of The House of Yahweh, and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the

remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of

Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments

of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one,

that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the

tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

 

[Josh321]

Yahchanan 5:14, "Afterward, Yahshua found him in the sacred precincts of The House of Yahweh, and said to him: Behold, you are healed. Sin no more, or a worse thing will come upon you."

1 Corinthians 9:24-27, "Do you not know that those who run in a race all compete, but only one receives the prize? So run your race that you may lay hold of the prize, and make it yours. And everyone who competes conducts himself temperately in all things. Now they compete to obtain a perishable crown; but we for an imperishable crown. Therefore, I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man who beats the air. No, I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified."

Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the

remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of

Jesus Christ.

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments

of God, and the faith of Jesus.

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one,

that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the

tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

[h=3]1 John 3:23[/h]King James Version (KJV)

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

 

[john832]

On my last post I meant that a loving heart would not do those things forbidden, but would do the other good things....

Are you saying Paul did not have a loving heart...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


Apparently it crossed Paul's mind a time or two.

 

[childofgod87]

wanna know what forms of Godliness is? your still in the flesh not born again with the holy spirit but think your holy and denying the truth about salvation and thinking with a carnal mind and believing you are holy when your still in the flesh

and what that verse is saying about give not that which is holy unto the dogs, if they don't wanna listen just move on that's exactly what i am doing

Dude , you're twisting scripture to make it fit what you want to. Having a form but denying it wouldn't be keeping his law holy. It would be being made in the image of God and keeping the commandments of men.
It would be professing Christ with your mouth and dishonoring with your works.
James 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
And I know this is coming from someone (with all due respect) has never stepped foot into a good adventist church
because they over love you to death. Hugs, inviting you over and welcoming you in their homes for sabbath meals, encouragement.
We just had a whole month's study on love and how to handle conflict in a way that honors God so I don't know where you're getting your information from.

 

[Josh321]

Are you saying Paul did not have a loving heart...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


Apparently it crossed Paul's mind a time or two.

he is discussing what it means to be born in sin, the flesh has no Good in it, he wants to do good but he can't because he is sold under sin, the works of iniquity dwells in the flesh he is also talking about the spirit of God that made him do good but evil is still present which is the flesh, no one who is in the flesh have a loving heart, born in sin means to go against the will of God and God is love Satan is hate he perverts the word of God

 

[Josh321]

Dude , you're twisting scripture to make it fit what you want to. Having a form but denying it wouldn't be keeping his law holy. It would be being made in the image of God and keeping the commandments of men.
It would be professing Christ with your mouth and dishonoring with your works.
James 2:20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
And I know this is coming from someone (with all due respect) has never stepped foot into a good adventist church
because they over love you to death. Hugs, inviting you over and welcoming you in their homes for sabbath meals, encouragement.
We just had a whole month's study on love and how to handle conflict in a way that honors God so I don't know where you're getting your information from.

how am i twisting scriptures by describing what forms of Godliness is? is it not a form of Godliness when someone is still in the flesh but professing to be a christian? and how can someone in the flesh know what love is? you just can't only when your born again by the spirit and you know God then you know what Love is

 

[Hizikyah]

Romans 8:7-8, "Because the carnal mind is enmity against;(bitterly opposed to), Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of
Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you saying Paul did not have a loving heart...

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?


Apparently it crossed Paul's mind a time or two.

Paul's carnal mind and sinful nature was not his loving heart and mind...

 

[john832]

Lawbreaking is not a form of Godliness. Iniquity is lawlessness...

I John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. - NKJV

 

[childofgod87]

how am i twisting scriptures by describing what forms of Godliness is? is it not a form of Godliness when someone is still in the flesh but professing to be a christian? and how can someone in the flesh know what love is? you just can't only when your born again by the spirit and you know God then you know what Love is

Yes, but how do you figure we're still in the flesh?
Let me ask you something and I'll wait for your reply before I answer.
Is it still okay to sin?