well, they probably don't read the Bible then because if you read on in Galatians 5:19 on - it tells you how to walk in the Spirit, as well as other passages
LOVE IS fULFILLING THE LAW OF GOD BUT DOES NOT MEAN THAT YOU MAY IGNORE GOD'S LAW
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Truthfullly the bible is not needed to know God. It should be used to understand His timeline and operation in matters. We all can see the obvious with our eyes, and hear the obvious with our ears. We are in His image. Do see how we treat each other thinking that we know good from evil? We will send a man to hell for bacon but ignore the millions that are starving for no food at all. All because we choose to let it happen. If we choose to end this madness, who can oppose us?
Hi - When Jesus said that the Law was "summed up", He used a word which means briefly comprehended or gathered together in one. This suggests 1+1+1 = 3... So if you leave anything out it does not add up to correct total. We don't really have to understand what all of the allegorical references in the Bible refer to. We can know that if we Love (Be patient and kind etc.) we fulfill the reality to which all of the allegories refer.
[video=youtube;y2UFq_BuplM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2UFq_BuplM&list=TLeygNcdliTYk[/video]
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/law.php
http://brmicke.yolasite.com/law.php
Being set free from the law of sin and death (Rm 8:2) means that a person keeps the law (written on their heart). The person is free from the Law because they don't violate the Law. The disciplines for breaking the law are inactive. Even though the law has not passed away (2 Cor 3:13) it has become idle or useless.
The greek word commonly translated "abolished" from 2 Cor 3:13 suggests that the law has been abolished which is incorrect. The person is free from the Law of sin and death (the Law is not active in their lives) because they keep the Laws of God.
Ro 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Ro 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
The Law is seen to be the husband in this allegory as verse 4 shows.
Ro 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
The phrase as long as the law is active or "liveth" means as long the law is being violated it is actively punishing the person because they continue to violate the Law.
If the person marries Christ (becomes a Christian) and still violates the Law this means that the Law with its penalties for disobedience is still active or alive in the persons life even while they profess to be joined to Christ. They are scripturally called an adulterous person.
A Christian is no longer joined to the old husband or "law" when they keep the Law. They are dead to the law because they keep the law and it's penalties do not apply to them.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Believers are married to Christ.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
In other words when we are in the flesh we were sinning and the scriptural penalty for sin is death.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We are delivered from the (penalties) of the law because we keep the Law. The law has not passed away as Jesus said, Mt 5:18. Christians are to be dead to the law, because they do not break the law, and therefore the penalties prescribed for breaking the law do not apply to them. In this manner Christians are said to be "dead to the Law, or the Old man or husband".
If a Christian keeps the law they are not transgressing it, they are not sinning.
Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
What in verse 6 would necessitate Paul asking the rhetorical question in verse 7, "is the Law sin", and then refuting that question?
Because Paul had just said in verse 6 that Christians are delivered from the Law. So Paul recognized that some people could wrongly conclude that they were delivered from the law and no longer had to adhere to its precepts.
Paul wanted to keep people from thinking they didn't have to keep the Law. He wanted them to know that keeping the law was good (Rm 7:12) but He recognized that His statements up to and including Rm 7:6 could be mistakenly used to imply that a person did not have to adhere to the Laws of God.
Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
"Within" means to be inside - "without" means to be outside.
In Romans 2:12 Paul shows the destiny of those "without law".
Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Before Paul was aware of the Law of God (without) He was simply destined to perish.
Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
When the Law showed Paul what a sinner He was He knew He deserved to die.
The greek word commonly translated "abolished" from 2 Cor 3:13 suggests that the law has been abolished which is incorrect. The person is free from the Law of sin and death (the Law is not active in their lives) because they keep the Laws of God.
Ro 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Ro 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
The Law is seen to be the husband in this allegory as verse 4 shows.
Ro 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
The phrase as long as the law is active or "liveth" means as long the law is being violated it is actively punishing the person because they continue to violate the Law.
If the person marries Christ (becomes a Christian) and still violates the Law this means that the Law with its penalties for disobedience is still active or alive in the persons life even while they profess to be joined to Christ. They are scripturally called an adulterous person.
A Christian is no longer joined to the old husband or "law" when they keep the Law. They are dead to the law because they keep the law and it's penalties do not apply to them.
Ro 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Believers are married to Christ.
Ro 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
In other words when we are in the flesh we were sinning and the scriptural penalty for sin is death.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
We are delivered from the (penalties) of the law because we keep the Law. The law has not passed away as Jesus said, Mt 5:18. Christians are to be dead to the law, because they do not break the law, and therefore the penalties prescribed for breaking the law do not apply to them. In this manner Christians are said to be "dead to the Law, or the Old man or husband".
If a Christian keeps the law they are not transgressing it, they are not sinning.
Ro 7:7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
What in verse 6 would necessitate Paul asking the rhetorical question in verse 7, "is the Law sin", and then refuting that question?
Because Paul had just said in verse 6 that Christians are delivered from the Law. So Paul recognized that some people could wrongly conclude that they were delivered from the law and no longer had to adhere to its precepts.
Paul wanted to keep people from thinking they didn't have to keep the Law. He wanted them to know that keeping the law was good (Rm 7:12) but He recognized that His statements up to and including Rm 7:6 could be mistakenly used to imply that a person did not have to adhere to the Laws of God.
Ro 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
"Within" means to be inside - "without" means to be outside.
In Romans 2:12 Paul shows the destiny of those "without law".
Ro 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
Before Paul was aware of the Law of God (without) He was simply destined to perish.
Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
When the Law showed Paul what a sinner He was He knew He deserved to die.
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They don't see their own flesh in the way as I have done, and can do again in self-righteousness as Saul did,and turned to die to self daily.
Praying to do the same and be as God desires me to be, thanks for the post SpiritofFire
and so are you focused on not doing those things? I know if you are then either you are keeping from them and are self-righteous, putting others down as if you are better than the prostitutes.
What is it that Jesus said to the Pharisees about this.
Or you are struggling and can't figure out why behind closed doors you are caught up in lust, not wanting to do it and God knows this.
So: see this all one has to do is think (sow) to flesh and flesh corruption takes hold, either way I spoke, of pride, righteousness or guilt, both keep one away from the joy found in Christ and through Christ alone unto Father
Galatians 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
If you are led by the Spirit.... You don't give in to temptations of the flesh. I dunno about you, but I still give into temptations of the flesh. I can't YET make that claim.
What was Paul dying to daily?
He said himself, he was no longer in the flesh, AND that he was perfect/mature. By his own words, that is no longer die to self, but self is dead.
Do YOU read the Bible is my question. Vs 19 says NOTHING of the sort. It's a description of what it looks like if you are still flesh, or are Now Spirit/Love. There is no directive of how to walk, it ONLY discusses the benefit of which walk you live by.
C
cfultz3
Guest
What then is the purpose of being chastised by the Lord if we do not give into temptations (sin)? Are you saying the Lord will chastise His children when they did nothing wrong?
Does God only teach once or is He merciful?
Why would the Lord chastise and flog us if we do not sin?
You are having God correcting us and whipping us for no reason at all by saying that they who are led by the Spirit (the children of God) do not sin (give into temptation).
C
cfultz3
Guest
If you have deducted you are not led by the Spirit because you still sin, and claim you are not led by Him, then you are saying you are not a child of God. Scripture says they who are led by the Spirit are the children of God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
A few comments.
1. No longer under law means we are no longer under condemnation by the law. Not that we hold them and do them. Saying it means we do them puts us back under law.
2. Sin is not just outward. If all of us stood in front of Christ today we would fall on our faces knowing how truely sinful we really were on a daily basis.
3. we need to try to stop looking at overt sins, or the sins most people think of. and think if we do not do those sins, or are not as sinfull as the person next to us, we must be holy. We are not holy, and could not earn our salvation even if we were seen by the world as being blameless because we are upright people. We still have inner sins we can not break. and in Gods eyes, they are just as damning as the overt sin.
walking in the spirit means walking in love. If we love, we will not break the law. Because ALL SIN (mental or overt) is based on Pride and lack of love. Without love, there is nothing but sin.
Since walking in the spirit is walking in love (as Christ our example did) We do not need the law. Because when you love someone more than yourself. you would never break the law. Thats why we walk in the spirit, not in the letter.
The only purpose is the letter is to act as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. after we find Christ, the letter ceases to be usefull. and all we have is to learn to love as Christ did. The law CAN NOT HELP US DO THIS.
1. No longer under law means we are no longer under condemnation by the law. Not that we hold them and do them. Saying it means we do them puts us back under law.
2. Sin is not just outward. If all of us stood in front of Christ today we would fall on our faces knowing how truely sinful we really were on a daily basis.
3. we need to try to stop looking at overt sins, or the sins most people think of. and think if we do not do those sins, or are not as sinfull as the person next to us, we must be holy. We are not holy, and could not earn our salvation even if we were seen by the world as being blameless because we are upright people. We still have inner sins we can not break. and in Gods eyes, they are just as damning as the overt sin.
walking in the spirit means walking in love. If we love, we will not break the law. Because ALL SIN (mental or overt) is based on Pride and lack of love. Without love, there is nothing but sin.
Since walking in the spirit is walking in love (as Christ our example did) We do not need the law. Because when you love someone more than yourself. you would never break the law. Thats why we walk in the spirit, not in the letter.
The only purpose is the letter is to act as a schoolmaster to lead us to Christ. after we find Christ, the letter ceases to be usefull. and all we have is to learn to love as Christ did. The law CAN NOT HELP US DO THIS.
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)
[SUP]10[/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11[/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Those that are still sinning as you said you have not achieved need to die daily.
The doorway to life in God's Spirit is through death to self with Christ, by asking God to show me this, and the operation of God takes effect for new life in God by God from God a gift to us all that believe God. It really is too simple.
Hi Brother - First of all thank you for your post. This is how I learn, and I am truly grateful to my brethren for helping me learn.
Since Jesus summarized all of the admonitions of the Law in His statement "Love God and neighbor", I will simply rely on His definition.
I will put those words into your original post and hopefully we can see more clearly so that we can follow Jesus more closely.
As you can see this makes your post a little confusing.
Since the Apostle Paul wrote the words "letter", I am doing a word search of the Bible looking for the word "letter". I feel that of all the instances of the use of the word there are four verses that are particularly relevant to our discussion.
Ro 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?
Sin is transgression of the Law. In Rom 2:27 the non-Jews kept the Law. The Jews didn't keep the Law even though they had it in written form. Either way the admonition is still to keep the Law of God. The Jews violated the Law through the letter and circumcision.
Just a few verses earlier in Romans 2:13 Paul endorsed "doing the law".
Ro 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Ro 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. {that being...: or, being dead to that}
How does the Law "hold" someone? The law can only "hold" someone it the person violates the Law. The law cannot hold a person if they don't transgress it.
Christians have the law or God engraved on their hearts.
2Co 3:6 ¶ Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. {giveth life: or, quickeneth}
The "letter killeth". What does this mean? Since transgression of the law is sin, and the soul that sins will die, The letter (or written Law) can only Kill when the Law is violated. The Law cannot kill simply because it is written down using a letter. The point at which the Letter kills is when the written law is violated. The violation of the Law was what Paul was accusing the Jews of in Romans 2. They were hypocrites because they had the written law and yet violated the Law.
Now the written law could only condemn. That is what the phrase "the letter killeth" means. But grace teaches us to keep the Law and abstain from ungodliness. The Law was given by Moses but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
In 2 Cor 3:6 we see that the Spirit giveth Life. The giving of Life is contrasted with the penalties for violating the Law. Writing the Law on our hearts (circumcision of the heart) internalizes the law. Grace teaches us to abstain from ungodliness or sin (violation of the Law). This makes the difference between Moses and Christ the enablement to keep the law of God. The letter kills because it cannot teach a person to abstain from ungodliness or sin the way that Grace can, titus 2:11-12.
In mankind's power they cannot keep the Laws of God. With the enablement from God called Grace we can keep the law and abstain from ungodliness.
I do not say the following to be unkind but to show you that you adhere to an incorrect concept. This concept is the ungodly hypnotic suggestion that you accepted as truth many years ago.... "we cannot do anything to earn our salvation". Without God of course we can't. That is why unbelievers are not saved. We earn it by repenting from unbelief and abstaining from ungodliness. God has made reconciliation with Himself easy enough that through Grace Christians can "earn it' as you say. You are doing a great disservice to God's people when you preach that Christians cannot earn salvation.
Mr 10:17 ¶ And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?Mr 10:19 Thou knowest the commandments....
De 30:11 (ASV) For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee, neither is it far off.
Respectfully - Brian
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. {that being...: or, being dead to that}
How does the Law "hold" someone? The law can only "hold" someone if they are termed to be "under" it's authority. We are only under the authority of the Law if we violate the Law. Hence the term under the Law.
The Law can only hold someone (in Prison) if they sin.
Sin is a violation of the Law.
The law cannot hold a person if they don't transgress the Law. We are dead to violating the law and thereby being held by it. We are delivered from the laws ability to hold us because we have grace to teach us to obey the law.
We need to die to sin.
We are delivered from the (penalties) of the law because we keep the Law. The law has not passed away as Jesus said, Mt 5:18. Christians are to be dead to the law, because they do not break the law, and therefore the penalties prescribed for breaking the law do not apply to them. In this manner Christians are said to be "dead to the Law, or the Old man or husband".
Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(KJV)
Under the new covenant Christians are delivered from being "held" by the law. They are not delivered from Keeping the laws commandments.
How does the Law "hold" someone? The law can only "hold" someone if they are termed to be "under" it's authority. We are only under the authority of the Law if we violate the Law. Hence the term under the Law.
The Law can only hold someone (in Prison) if they sin.
Sin is a violation of the Law.
The law cannot hold a person if they don't transgress the Law. We are dead to violating the law and thereby being held by it. We are delivered from the laws ability to hold us because we have grace to teach us to obey the law.
We need to die to sin.
We are delivered from the (penalties) of the law because we keep the Law. The law has not passed away as Jesus said, Mt 5:18. Christians are to be dead to the law, because they do not break the law, and therefore the penalties prescribed for breaking the law do not apply to them. In this manner Christians are said to be "dead to the Law, or the Old man or husband".
Ro 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(KJV)
Under the new covenant Christians are delivered from being "held" by the law. They are not delivered from Keeping the laws commandments.
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Glory to God John. He is the one who showeth me everything.
Christians are held or bound in this way --
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)
Under the new covenant the Christian simply has to confess sin to be forgiven.
Christians are held or bound in this way --
Heb 2:15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)
Under the new covenant the Christian simply has to confess sin to be forgiven.
C
cfultz3
Guest
Brm,
In your reply to EG, where you inserted (love) when he said the law, I wish to just point out that he was talking about the Law of sin, not God's Law (Love).
In your reply to EG, where you inserted (love) when he said the law, I wish to just point out that he was talking about the Law of sin, not God's Law (Love).