Are catholics Christian?

[Quickfire]

Your need to show biblical basis for this belief; otherwise I cannot accept it. Not because I want to be mean; but because God's word is the truth and everything you believe must be verified by the word of GOD

prayers for the saints,
revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

revelation 8:3-4 And another angel came and stood at the altar with a golden censer, and he was given much incense to offer with the prayers of all the saints on the golden altar before the throne, [SUP]4 [/SUP]and the smoke of the incense, with the prayers of the saints, rose before God from the hand of the angel.

 

[jandian]

Ok. They collect the prayers..... no problem there. In fact I can even give you more examples of angels transporting prayers. However, there is no example in the bible of any child of God praying to one or to any other being. the angels operated on instructions from GOD not from man.

 

[Quickfire]

Ok. They collect the prayers..... no problem there. In fact I can even give you more examples of angels transporting prayers. However, there is no example in the bible of any child of God praying to one or to any other being. the angels operated on instructions from GOD not from man.

that is true i agree, and this is where there is much confusion and a true catholic would agree with you to. like me, but a bad doctrined christian who gets info of the net would not, i think youll find the internet is a breeding ground for conspiracy theorists.

Mary is seen as the queen of the saints by one, and just simply the mother of Jesus god, and both , vise verso, but both mainly have pictures and statues of her as a holy symbol that is all, and it is the individual who takes it further and not the church,

 

[jandian]

that is true i agree, and this is where there is much confusion and a true catholic would agree with you to. like me, but a bad doctrined christian who gets info of the net would not, i think youll find the internet is a breeding ground for conspiracy theorists.

Mary is seen as the queen of the saints by one, and just simply the mother of Jesus god, and both , vise verso, but both mainly have pictures and statues of her as a holy symbol that is all, and it is the individual who takes it further and not the church,

Well brings me back to my original statement. Whatever you call yourself, any man who believes in Christ on the only mediator between man an GOD and behaves and prayers like he believe that;...... is a Christian.
Peace be unto you.

 

[Praus]

@prause i do like a bit of friendly banter between yanks and brits you posted a picture saying prince harry was a nazi,, i took it as a joke, and said are you a commi , it was meant as a joke, nothing more, honest i havent got a racist bone in my body,

Welcome to the clown club! I was teasing you, Brits are our friends, even if you all use Oxford spelling in your Bibles instead of Cambridge spelling...

"Praus is crazy" --Praus

 

[TannarDarr]

The Catholic Church is THE Christian church of origin, established by Christ, and then, after his ascension, relocated ultimately to Rome. It wasn't until after 300AD that the Bible as we know it today was compiled - by the Catholic Church in Rome. This isn't a matter of opinion or sectarianism, it's just an historical fact. It was the Catholic Church from which the eastern church split in the Schism. It was the Catholic Church from which Henry VIII and Martin Luther split during the Reformation.

Closer to 400 AD than 300 AD.

But, a few ante nicene fathers had collections that were nearly complete but they included Didache and such as well. WHICH IS GOOD READING for perspective.

Every side of the battle has a comment on who split from whom. Just as the "CATHOLIC" Church excommunicated people they later sainted, they aren't always real bright. Just as politics ruled many excommunications not theology.

I feel the same way toward your post, (nothing personal) than I do when a Jew tells me, "AND I SHOULD KNOW IT, I AM A JEW". I look to the history of the JEWS IN THAT BIBLE, and notice, they were more famous for NEVER GETTING it right, than anything else, so why assume they got it right now?

I"m happy for you that you have a place to plant your faith. But,.......

... I wonder if your faith is more in your Church, than it is in God.

 

[TannarDarr]

Ok. They collect the prayers..... no problem there. In fact I can even give you more examples of angels transporting prayers. However, there is no example in the bible of any child of God praying to one or to any other being. the angels operated on instructions from GOD not from man.

IF those angels, and Mary can hear them and their prayers it is no difference than YOU asking your pastor to pray for your family during rough times.

There is certainly NO theological issue here. I, personally, think it' silly to pray to a dead person. If they are dead and in heaven next to the awesomeness of GOD, I'm quite sure their attention is focused on Their LORD AND GOD and all of His loving might.

But, as this is a matter of faith, not salvific theology, I have to reference that the two men eating meat had an issue of faith, and were told NOT to nudge each other about it.

I have to ask the room, seriously, is praying to angels, saints or Mary of any relevance and change the Gospel? Or is it just something weird that gets picked at, like the KKK picks at a black man in 1950?

 

[TannarDarr]

lol you don't like anybody that doesn't agree with you, do you?

He doesn't' have time to NOT LIKE someone, he's too busy liking himself?

 

[TannarDarr]

The catholic church was started by a group of bishops, that brought in irregularities from the true church, that started in Jerusalem The meeting was at Nicaea in 325 A.D. Since then, they have added about 50 or more doctrines and rules to there church.

You don't read much history do you? OR do you just get it off of PBS specials made to be sensational for viewers interest?

You are parroting things you have heard, not a thing that you have researched both sides of the claim on. Until you research both sides of the claim, you really shouldn't speak so loudly on something.

 

[Quickfire]

Whatever you call yourself,

i all myself me, i call my self king, (king of my house)
i call my self lord an master of my household to lol, its nice to think your someone, if you believe that i am lord and master of my house then there will be no problem between you an i , if you believe that you can rule my house, you better bring an army, an that's a fact. (respect goes a long way, i thought me and you got off to a good start and good conversation, ? (what happened ?

ok to answer your question,, the united kingdom church was under the rule of the pope up until king Henry got his way. he dishonored church by changing things so he could get married, he fell out with the pope (16th century) he formed the church of England and got married, (only a couple of things changed all other stayed the same , (fact)

now church of England and catholic is 50 50 in the uk maybe more church of England now.

you now have 33 million people thinking there protestants (christian) but there not , and its a joke ,, there catholic and they don't realise it,, (remember just a few things changed when the church was formed 16th century.)

i was 11 years old speaking to a bishop in the church of England. he said you can confess your sins to one of our church farther if you want to, (i said that's no different to the roman catholic church across the road. he never gave me an answer. point here is at least the the catholic church advertise it but the church of England do not, but you can still go in an do it if you want.

i asked him then is this church just catholic in many ways (again no answer.) so you have 33 million people thinking there christian church of England protestant of the catholic faith and out of favor with the pope all because of henry the eight 16 century who was mad because he couldn't get his own, (you have herd of the saying !! im Henry the eight i am, (well that means me me me me).

so now we have a reformation of the church of England,(Anglican catholic the true church of England,, reverted back to how it was before Henry the eight had is way, Anglican catholic church founded in 1982. so pretty new but boy is growing fast its world wide now. but what separates the Anglican from the roman is the title of the pope, the roman catholic se him has infallible we do not, but that's no big deal.

 

[Quickfire]

Its a world gone mad that's for sure,but the way i see this is church leaders need a reason to form a church and some are worthy of that change, like the pope being infallible, but all the other stuff , nar i dont see it and one has to question is it just a reason to form a church an make some money, is it some guy who just got spoke to out of term ? an said right ill show you, because im another Henry the eight i am, or where they formed because some mad catholic made people wanna leave,?
agan this is all individual stuff and not true christian Catholicism, (and this indvidual stuff is amongst none denominational Christians too.
anyways, but there in all the madness if you seek truth, what ever denomination you are of Christianity you will find it. because the spirit loves those who seek truth and look to spirit for guidance and not people.

knock seek find, with a sincere for ways to come to a better understanding of the truth and the lies (truth = friend love your neighbor pray) (lies = enemy or confusion (still pray) enemy could turn into a blessing.

peace be with you all now for some pie lol.

 

[Quickfire]

. I, personally, think it' silly to pray to a dead person. If they are dead and in heaven next to the awesomeness of GOD, I'm quite sure their attention is focused on Their LORD AND GOD and all of His loving might.

are gees man, who told you they prayed directly to the dead, ? (again is this individual belief ?.

Ok lets say you and person you get into an argument , you have not been friends with that person for some time,
for many reason you hate each other, one of you want to deliberately hit the other person (not a moment of madness but a planned moment that has built up inside of you (hate) , now the next thing is that happens you hit him he dies (murder).
now that person is in a place of Purgatory waiting for The day when Jesus may or may not set him free,

before he died he did many sins against you he did not ask for forgiveness, or repent, now if you had not of struck him maybe he might of asked for forgiveness , who knows, you would never know
(this is why people see suicide as unforgivable because they have murdered them selves and not ask for forgiveness.)

now you know that saints collect prayers what if they hear the prayer of you saying lord it was just as much my fault as it was his.
we both quarreled we both argued and fighted,
lets say he stole from you, with the same desire you wanted to hit him (planned) so whats so bad praying that god hears your prayer that it was all not his fault lord please forgive him. ?
that is prayer for that dead, or please lord i forgive him can you ask him if he forgives me on the day of judgement,
(remember Moses was a murderer too.) but he had time to change. there a few others too. (Moses is in heaven inst he

ok next point it could be young adult dies young didn't know the lord did drugs cheated you name it,
his mother becomes a christian afterwards, she feels convicted for not having taught her son Christianity , she might offer prayer for the saints, saying lord please forgive my son he did not know you and i did not teach him,

these are prayers for the saints theese are prayers for the dead,

now if you live a ripe old age of 80 its a pretty safe bet your going to learn about the bible forgiveness etc, but if you do not have forgiveness afterwards then its a pretty safe bet you will turn into a wicked old man or wicked old lady,
that's not directed at you but others who may read this.
I have read your posts and i see something good there.
but just want to clear your statement so that people do not seethat Catholics pray directly to the dead , but in ways i have mentioned hear. they pray for the dead and pray so the saints may here them to.

 

[7seven7]

Your need to show biblical basis for this belief; otherwise I cannot accept it. Not because I want to be mean; but because God's word is the truth and everything you believe must be verified by the word of GOD

Do you believe that The Almighty Creator is restricted to a book? THE ALMIGHTY CREATOR OF HEAVEN AND EARTH!! Just to emphasize His significance

 

[7seven7]

This is just a discussion, as you can see eventhough homwardbound compared me to a serpent, i still gave him the chance to answer the question which he avoided/ deny.

By the way, do you have the list of how you worship your god and how you honor mary?

The quickest answer I can come up with for this question that you ask, even though my point to you is simply that I know that I don't worship Mary (and that should be enough lol ), is that we honor Mary by worshipping her Son, Christ, and we honor Christ, her Son, by loving His mother like he told us to:
[h=3]Behold Your Mother[/h]25 Now there stood by the cross of Jesus His mother, and His mother’s sister, Mary the wifeof Clopas, and Mary Magdalene. 26 When Jesus therefore saw His mother, and the disciple whom He loved standing by, He said to His mother, “Woman, behold your son!” 27 Then He said to the disciple, “Behold your mother!” And from that hour that disciple took her to his own home.

Do you not think it is enough to hear from me that I don't worship Mary? Why do you keep telling me I do when I clearly state that I don't? Don't I know whom I worship? Its really crazy, if you think about it, that you should tell me what I am doing and not doing when I am clearly not doing what you told me I AM doing! lol Watcher, pay attention..... you ready? ...... I DON'T WORSHIP MARY!! I'll repeat it again..... I DO NOT WORSHIP MARY!!! Don't be upset. I know it upsets you to come to terms with the fact that you know nothing about Catholics and you're only going on what you've been misled with, but nevertheless, you are wrong. Do some research brother, please. Read the Catechism. It tells you EXACTLY what the Catholic Church teaches.

Just quickly, when I need help or guidance with something, I ask God for it. When I talk to Mary, I ask her to pray FOR me, asking Christ for help, just like she told Him to turn the water into wine at the wedding. I don't ask her to bless me or forgive me. You see the difference? That's just answering your question. This conversation can go a hundred different ways now, and it probably will because you need something to pick at. Peace, man, peace!!!

 

[Quickfire]

Ok. They collect the prayers..... no problem there. In fact I can even give you more examples of angels transporting prayers. However, there is no example in the bible of any child of God praying to one or to any other being. the angels operated on instructions from GOD not from man.

ok have you ever wondered why the saints collect prayers ?????

well this is the way i see it ,,the lord tells us how to pray, remember in the old testement god said i am sick of your burnt offerings and i detest the smell, ? well there you go the lord detests the wrong type of prayer. the lord does not want to hear the wrong prayer day in an day out so the saints intervene for him, they probaly all get wittnessed, and some make it to the farther, or some maybe get put of an not answered straight away, can you imagine how many prayes a day there must be, maybe billions upon billion, (so we have a prayer bank waiting to be colleted by the saints, (remember the bible tells the lord as legions of angels,


like in the old testement moses was dealing with every single problem of what the people had done , until it was decided that the priests underneath him delt with silly petty stuff an moses dealt with the big stuff, (make sense) ?

 

[ChosenbyHim]

There are many versions of catholics now, like couples for Christ, singles for Christ, but are they really Christians of the bible?

Real catholics are not Christians. Catholics follow a works based salvation where they count on their church membership, their keeping of their sacrements, and also their taking the eucharist. See, like all religions, the Catholic church bases salvation on faith plus works.

But Holy Scripture tells us that salvation is by Grace through faith, and not of works:



Ephesians 2:5-10 KJV
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Now works that are meet for repentance (Acts 16:20) come after salvation. But your works have no way of getting you to heaven. Only the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ can save you and get you to heaven.

 

[Quickfire]

actually i think actions (works) go togeather with faith, but yeah just another twisted protestant doctrine that you believe, more fool you ,

 

[Quickfire]

Real catholics are not Christians. Catholics follow a works based salvation where they count on their church membership, their keeping of their sacrements, and also their taking the eucharist. See, like all religions, the Catholic church bases salvation on faith plus works.

But Holy Scripture tells us that salvation is by Grace through faith, and not of works:



Ephesians 2:5-10 KJV
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved [6] And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: [7] That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. [8]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast[10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


Now works that are meet for repentance (Acts 16:20) come after salvation. But your works have no way of getting you to heaven. Only the precious shed blood of Jesus Christ can save you and get you to heaven.

Faith Without Works Is Dead [h=3]James 2:14-26[/h]

[SUP]14 [/SUP]What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? [SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, [SUP]16 [/SUP]and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? [SUP]17 [/SUP]Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your[SUP][a][/SUP] works, and I will show you my faith by my[SUP][b][/SUP] works. [SUP]19 [/SUP]You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe—and tremble! [SUP]20 [/SUP]But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]21 [/SUP]Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? [SUP]22 [/SUP]Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? [SUP]23 [/SUP]And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][d][/SUP] And he was called the friend of God. [SUP]24 [/SUP]You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
[SUP]26 [/SUP]For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also

 

[Quickfire]

hmmm i wonder if thats why matyn luther wanted the the book of james kicked out of the bible

 

[homwardbound]

The first step in Christianity requires you to know the true God, and when you find out the true God, you then believed in Him, that He is the one and true God. Then you repent of your previous unbelief.
By the way, this one true God is a jealous God, and is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob who sent his Son Jesus the Christ.

there is no other God besides him.

You have demonstrated an example of false witness, by denying you do not know the god of the muslim. A person who have shown broad knowledge of the bible or maybe even attended a course about theology.

You have also shown doubt about your god for you cannot decide whether your god is also the god of muslim.

You can think as you want to, Love you God's way not man's no matter what you say or think, God just love you. This is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. All in God's type of love to you as shown to us in 1 Cor. 13:4-13.
We all have free choice and will, and can believe whatever we want to believe, yet through God and the cross, none of us have to live like refugees. Christ has taken on all the stress for us, to make us free in God, loving all as he has said to do
Luke 6:32 For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Pretty clear, and Love is never Jealous or envious. God's type as given to us through Christ whom went to death for us, in order to give us new life in him, by the resurrection. Being born again in God's Spirit, forsaking one's flesh Spirit that he was originally born with.