Who/What is the antichrist?

doulos · Sep 12, 2013

Antichrist is anyone who denies the Father or Son. Beasts are kingdoms.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Can you show me where in Scripture the definition of a beast changed from a kingdom to antichrist?

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As the above verses show there are many antichrists and they have been with us since John first wrote about them. Not one of those verses say antichrist is instead of Christ. Those that say instead of Christ base their definition on man’s definition instead of what Scripture tells us about antichrist. Wouldn’t we be better served to use the definition Scripture provides instead of man’s definitions? Can you show me which of those verses says antichrist will rule the world?

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

nathan3 said:

ok so the anti-Messiah or a anti-Messiah claims to be "god."

See the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat
2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

I posted more evidence in this thread than this, so see prior posts. (also there is much I didnt post)

Revelation 12:9, "And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, who deceives the whole world. He was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him."

None of this even hints that Satan is a man and the anti-Messiah, my evidence directly connected each verse.

Revelation 13:11-12, "And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb, but he spoke like a dragon. And he exercised all the authority of the first beast before him, and caused the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed."

It doesnt say the second beast looks like a lamb, it says has two horns like a lamb, first this is the "image" of the beast, the 2 horns represen power, this image of the beast has 2 sources of power that are portrayed as peaceful but in reality are not.

Revelation 13:13, "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

not lightning, fire.

nathan3 said:

I have poster about a 5 hour study online, it goes into ay more deatil than I can get into here. (Revelation 1-4)

Hizikyah YHWH - YouTube

doulos · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Tell me Hizikyah which of the above verses (the only 4 in Scripture that use the term antichrist) are the Catholics guilty of transgressing? Why rely on man’s definition instead of the definition Scripture provides? As I told you before the false futurist doctrine you espouse is derived from the antireformation writings of the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] century Jesuit priest Ribera. The end time scenario of a boogeyman antichrist, seven year trib etc is Scripturally bankrupt.

If you want to find the man of sin look in the true temple of God, not some man made building the Jews may or may not build.

If you want to see antichrists, just open your eyes we are surrounded by them. In today’s world alone there are literally a billion plus antichrists (atheists, muslims, etc… and the list goes on and on).

If you want to understand beasts then look for kingdoms. Daniel tells us beasts are kingdoms so if a beast was a kingdom in Daniel it will still be a kingdom in Rev.

The false prophet has been leading his followers to perdition for approximately 1400 years now and the vast majority of people are so blinded by doctrine they refuse to recognize this man who requires all of his followers to deny God has a Son.

May I suggest visiting www.beholdthebeast.com or read the free online book The False Prophet <link

May God bless your studies!

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

doulos said:

Antichrist is anyone who denies the Father or Son. Beasts are kingdoms.
Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.
Can you show me where in Scripture the definition of a beast changed from a kingdom to antichrist?

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

As the above verses show there are many antichrists and they have been with us since John first wrote about them. Not one of those verses say antichrist is instead of Christ. Those that say instead of Christ base their definition on man’s definition instead of what Scripture tells us about antichrist. Wouldn’t we be better served to use the definition Scripture provides instead of man’s definitions? Can you show me which of those verses says antichrist will rule the world?

Revelation 13:7, "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations."

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

doulos said:

Hizikyah

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Tell me Hizikyah which of the above verses (the only 4 in Scripture that use the term antichrist) are the Catholics guilty of transgressing? Why rely on man’s definition instead of the definition Scripture provides? As I told you before the false futurist doctrine you espouse is derived from the antireformation writings of the 17[SUP]th[/SUP] century Jesuit priest Ribera. The end time scenario of a boogeyman antichrist, seven year trib etc is Scripturally bankrupt.

If you want to find the man of sin look in the true temple of God, not some man made building the Jews may or may not build.

If you want to see antichrists, just open your eyes we are surrounded by them. In today’s world alone there are literally a billion plus antichrists (atheists, muslims, etc… and the list goes on and on).

If you want to understand beasts then look for kingdoms. Daniel tells us beasts are kingdoms so if a beast was a kingdom in Daniel it will still be a kingdom in Rev.

The false prophet has been leading his followers to perdition for approximately 1400 years now and the vast majority of people are so blinded by doctrine they refuse to recognize this man who requires all of his followers to deny God has a Son.

May I suggest visiting www.beholdthebeast.com or read the free online book The False Prophet <link

May God bless your studies!

Certianly there are many anti-Messiahs

THE SUN died on THEIR cross

They worship idols and have Mary as a mediator, this in itself denies Yahshua's power

1 Timothy 2:5, "For One is Yahweh; and One Mediator between Yahweh and men: the Man, Yahshua Messiah,"

not "Mary"

Jesus is pused aside in their religion, but more importantly, one can say Jesus all they want, if they teach a false version of the Savior, they are AGAINST THE MESSIAH.

Bookends · Sep 12, 2013

The antichrist is nothing more then what the bible says a person, or institution, who denies Christ.

1 John 2:18
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. [This not speaking of our day, but in the days of the first apostles, 1st century]

1 John 2:22
[SUP]22 [/SUP]Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. [even thought I disagree with a lot w/ the RCC, they don't go this far!!!...You guys and gals who like to play pin the tail on the antichrist will be in for a big surprise, IMO]

1 John 4:3
[SUP]3 [/SUP]and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, ///flashing/// and is now already in the world ///flashing/// [John is writing to believers in his day, take off your 21st century goggles and start reading and understanding the bible in context]

2 John 1:7
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For many deceivers have gone out into the world who do not confess Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. [Application, antichrists existed through out all of time, yes even today]

These 4 scriptures is the only time antichrist is ever used in the NT. Christians who want to pin point the antichrist (meaning the antichrist as some person of future prophecy fulfillment, which most Christians proclaim, just make Christians look like fools) on someone or institution in our day as some future event, IMO, is quite laughable and embarrassing. Not to say there aren't antichrist around, just as your definition or view of it.

doulos · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Rev 13:1-9 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. If any man have an ear, let him hear.

These verses are talking about the beast that rises out of the sea. People are born they do not rise out of the sea!

Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

Heb 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

If God/Word is unchanging and a beast in prophecy was a kingdom in Daniel (and history proves that Daniel’s lion beast was Babylon, the bear was Medo-Persia, and the leopard was Greece) then a beast in Rev will also be a kingdom. Can you show us where the unchanging God/Word changed the definition of a beast from a kingdom to some boogeyman antichrist? If not then wouldn’t we be better served to base our belief that a beast is a kingdom because that is what the unchanging God/Word tells us beasts are?

doulos · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

So once again you rely on mans doctrine instead of Scripture to demonstrate your point. Allow me to repeat the question. Which of the following verses are the Catholics guilty of transgressing?

1Jn 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time
1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Don't the Catholics teach and belive that Christ was crucified, died and resurrected on the third day? Don't the Catholics teach that Christ is the only begotten Son of God? Isn't it time you start basing your belief on what Scripture actually says instead of following the doctrines of men that have been proven false? Is defending the Scripturally bankrupt futurist propogands more important to you then searching for the truth?

jb · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

1 Yahchanan (John) 2:18, "Little children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Anti- Messiah will come, even now there are many Anti-Messiahs; by this we know that this is the last hour."

Revelation 13:18, "Here is wisdom: Let him who has understanding count the number of the beast; for it is the number of a man. And his number is 666."

Daniyl 8:11-13, "Yes, he magnified himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And a host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practiced, and succeeded. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said to the one that spoke: How long will be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the setting up of The Abomination of Desolation (Lord of Heaven), and the surrender of the sanctuary, and the host to be trampled underfoot?

as high as the Prince of the host that means as high as Yahshua this man calles himself. = Vicarius Filii Del

See the cheribims? he thinks he sitting on the mecry seat, that is the Most High's seat
2 Thessalonians 2:4, "Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

LOL! and LOL! again...

Just complete and utter rubbish!

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

doulos said:

I dont disagree that there is a world runling kingdom as the verse i quoted earlier.

The sea represents a place with mant poeple, civilazation, etc

Example:

Revelation 17:15, "And he said to me: The waters which you saw, where the whore sits, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and languages."

I keep an open mind when looking into prophecy, but if there wasnt a literal man leading this kingdom, how would this work?:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, "Let no man deceive you by any means; for that day will not come, unless there comes a falling away first, and that servant of sin is revealed: the son of perdition,Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called gods or that is worshiped; so that he, as the Almighty, sits in the temple of Yahweh, showing himself that he is the Mighty One"

Alot of "HE" and "HIM" here

Revelation 13:4-8, "And they worshiped the dragon which gave power to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying: Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things, and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to wmake war for forty-two moons. And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Yahweh, to blaspheme His Name, and His House, and those who dwell in heaven. And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them. And authority was given him over all tribes, and peoples and languages, and nations. And all who dwell upon the earth will worship him--whose names have not been written from the foundation of the world, in The Book of Life of the Lamb Who was slain."

Revelation 17:12, "And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, which as yet have not received a kingdom; but receive authority as kings one hour with the beast."

If you look into "the club of rome" "council of 300" and "UN agenda 21" you will see they have a plan to make 10 reigions in the world, like Eurpean Union, North American Union, African Union, etc. I believe the "ten kings" will be "king" of each region, and the anti-Messiah will be over them.

If you havent heard of these, either look into them, or you wont really know what im talking about because there is too much here to get the whole point in a thread.

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

jb said:

Nice Scriptual refutation.

stevevw · Sep 12, 2013

im not sure its the pope and i certainly dont think its the current pope, he is a man of humility and love as practiced in his daily life with helping the poor. the catholic church is facing one of the greatest failures in modern times. there are inquiries all over the world into the catholic church and its actions towards abuses over many years. even the pope himself is questioned on their integrity. many people now dont trust the church and they will be paying compensation for years to come. they are in a mess and people are leaving in disgust.

so the catholic church is hopeless to be a front for satan. satan is better than that at convincing people. it wont be a religious organization that fools the world it will be a worldly person with great power that will rule. as what is happening now the breakdown of gods word in societies. being politically correct, being humane rather than godly, believing in science and tech as the answer. believing in evolution and man made theories to explain our existence and that there is no god and we have to rely on ourselves. we have the power to control things and dont need a god. there is no after life everything that is important is here and now so make the most it it. these are the tricks that Satan has been preparing for years to ready us for his coming. but he wont come as the devil that's to obvious he will come as a humane person, one that accepts all and allows all. he will appeal to the many as a person of humanity and wisdom, but earthly wisdom. he wants us to think there is no creator, there is no all powerful god by creating this illusion that we came from the earth, we evolved and science is the answer.

when he comes im sure hes not going to turn up and his sidekick are doing great wonders and we think hey wait a minute humans cant do that who is this person they are not from here and that is to obvious. many would put 2 and 2 together and be saying only a god can do these amazing things and if its not god then its Satan tricking us. he will have to come in a way that will allow him to show his powers without freaking us all out yet cause us to give great trust in his position.

Satan is the anti Christ so he wants to be god and will try to mimic him to deceive us. that means he will be coming back as Christ is coming. in other words as Christ came back in the new testament and said he will come back again so we will see him incarnate. well the same for Satan he will reveal himself and his power but in disguise.
i would say though it sounds far fetched to some and this is just one theory out there. he is more likely to be what we call an alien. not a freaky alien but a humanoid one. it confirms the evolution theory and would shake a lot of believers foundations. it would be the one thing that really gives credence to those theories and has a big impact on the story of the bible. many people claim they have seen UFOs and aliens and probably most of it is crap. but why is it such a big topic in the first place, why are we constantly looking for life in the universe. this would be perfect for Satan to arrive back on earth with the power of a futuristic being that is far more evolved and superior to us. we would be in awe and he could claim to have all the answers we are looking for. we would allow him so much power and influence because he would be one of us but smarter, wiser and with the powers he could use that he says are from a more advance race. who knows but if he is to reveal himself i dont think hes going to use an institution that is doing a hopeless job for him. many people in the church have faith but the day will come when it is tested and there is a difference between a Sunday faith and true faith so that's when the trees will be pruned of their dead branches.
if we may discover some form of life on mars or out in the universe soon maybe thats satans way of preparing us for when he comes.

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

1.. Okay I addressed the meaning of Anti in my other post.

2.. Let me try, to talk about Daniel 8:11-13 , it will be this whole post for just Daniel 8.

Daniel 8:11 "Yea, he magnified himself even to the Prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifices was taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down."

The sanctuary of "the prince of the host" is in Jerusalem. It has been and it will also be in the millennium, and even in eternity. When the Antichrist ( instead of C. ) "magnified himself", he will take away the "daily sacrifice". The daily sacrifice is the oblation, or the offering from the people, both by day and night, to Almighty God. This is discussed in Numbers 28:3; I Chronicles 29:7. These are the burnt offerings for sin.

There was only one thing that took away the need for two daily offerings, and that was the sacrifice of God's only begotten Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. The requirement of these two burnt offerings, the daily sacrifice, ended when Jesus Christ went to the cross and shed His precious blood on the cross at Calvary. This sacrifice paid the price once, and that covering is for all times. Hebrews 10 discusses this in detail, and then in verses twelve through fourteen we read;

Hebrews 10:12-14; "But this man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till His enemies be made His footstool. For by one offering He hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified."

The term, "the volume of the book" is the completion of the sacrifice required through the scriptures, and Jesus Christ paid that price. We read on in verses fifteen through eighteen; ( Hebrews 10:7 )

Hebrews 10:15-18; "Whereof the Holy Spirit also is a witness to us: for after that He had said before, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin."

When those oblations were taken away, in its place we have the Holy Communion. In Luke 22:19-20 it is recorded that the command of Jesus to His disciples was to continue taking the cup in remembrance of Jesus Christ, and the blood He shed on the cross for their sins. This we are commanded to do until He comes back at the second advent [coming].

If you can understand this, it is understandable why all Christians in the world will stop taking the Communion [the daily sacrifices]; for all the world is going to worship the first Christ on the scene ( fake Christ ).
It will be through the "rapture theory", and other false doctrines, as well as the "miracle" promoters, that Satan will make them believe that he is the Christ ( Revelation 13: 13-14 ). When you do not know what is written in God's Word, you will accept the counterfeit Christ that will come first, for the Antichrist ( instead of ) comes with all the supernatural powers necessary to convince you that he is the Christ. ( 2nd Thessalonians 2: )

The only one, we see magnifying himself throughout all of the written scripture, other then God. is Satan he wants to be worshiped as a god.

12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

13 For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north:

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.

This is one of Many. Now the scriptures in 2nd Thessalonians 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Mark 13:

21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

Lets look at two of Satan's names :

Revelation 9:11

11 And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Where does Angel, of the bottomless pit come from ?

Revelation 9: 1

1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

Luke 10:

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. ( Revelation 12: 9 )

Greek for Lightning :

ἀστραπή

astrapē

as-trap-ay'

From G797 ; lightning ; by analogy glare: - {lightning} bright shining.

G797 -

G792

ἀστράπτω

ἀστήρ

astēr

as-tare'

Probably from the base of G4766 ; a star (as strown over the {sky}) literally or figuratively: - star.

Same star one as Revelation 9: 1.

This angle of the bottomless pit that falls from heaven, his names are Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Apollyon Greek -

Ἀπολλύων

Apolluōn

ap-ol-loo'-ohn

Active participle of G622 ; a destroyer (that {is} Satan ): - Apollyon.

take that word to G622 -

ἀπόλλυμι

apollumi

ap-ol'-loo-mee

From G575 and the base of G3639 ; to destroy fully (reflexively to {perish} or {lose }) literally or figuratively: - {destroy} {die} {lose} {mar} perish.

To take it father to a its base :

ὄλεθρος

olethros

ol'-eth-ros

From ὄλλυμι ollumi a primary word ( to destroy ; a prolonged form);
{ruin} that {is} { death } punishment: - destruction.

Now we know, Apollyon is one of Satan's names from the above information .

And the word Perish, is the base of his name . Perish means to destruction death, to die..

This would be that same Son of Perdition in 2nd Thessalonians chapter 2:

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

There is only, One, son of Perdition, one son, that has been sentenced to Perish by God. But first lets look at the meaning in the Greek manuscripts for Perdition .

Greek - Perdition

ἀπώλεια

apōleia ( base of Satan's name Apollyon )

ap-o'-li-a

From a presumed derivative of G622 ; ruin or loss ({physical} spiritual or eternal): - damnable ({-nation}) {destruction} {die} {perdition} X {perish} pernicious {ways} waste.

It comes from the base of G622-

ἀπόλλυμι

apollumi

ap-ol'-loo-mee

From G575 and the base of G3639 ; to destroy fully (reflexively to {perish} or {lose }) literally or figuratively: - {destroy} {die} {lose} {mar} perish.

That word comes from G623

Apolluōn

ap-ol-loo'-ohn

Active participle of G622 ; a destroyer (that {is} Satan ): - Apollyon.

We even have scripture, showing he has that sentence place on him

6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Because thou hast set thine heart as the heart of God;

7 Behold, therefore I will bring strangers upon thee, the terrible of the nations: and they shall draw their swords against the beauty of thy wisdom, and they shall defile thy brightness.

8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.

9 Wilt thou yet say before him that slayeth thee, I am God? but thou shalt be a man, and no God, in the hand of him that slayeth thee. -

( Satan is just a man, compared to God... Do you know what Gabriel means ? Man of God - Hebrew. )

12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

( God calls him perfect in beauty. And full of wisdom . )

13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes [color=red ]was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

( Lucifer/Satan was created by God, he sinned, and he was a cherub that protects. )

15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity ( sin ) was found in thee.

( Perfect, and created. not born. )

16 By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire.

( Because of his trafficking his sin to the other children, this was the nature of his sins ( Revelation 12: 3-4 )

17 Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

( Same as Revelation and Paul reported in 2nd Thessalonians 2, as well as Christ as He walked the earth in the gospels. )

18 Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. ( Revelation 20 :10 )

His sentence will be carried out, in the Future, After Christ returns ( Matthew 24 : 23- 30 ) " And then, After that Tribulation of Anti-C. "

So you see, this offers more information, that it is Not some man on earth now.

Revelation 12:

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

( Was the pope cast out to the earth to deceive the Whole world ? Or does Christ say Satan, will be cast out onto the earth to Deceive the Whole world ? There is No multiple choice question presented there..)

10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

That time is recorded in Revelation 9. Christ shortened it ( Matthew 24: 22 )...

There is more, but that is all I can think of at this moment.

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

stevevw said:

It ain't the pope... But to address something else you said, you cant tell by just some one showing humility love and helping people. Even evil people know how to do that.

The reason i mention it is because Satan will be doing the same thing. Meaning loving people, helping people like the sick the dieing the poor etc.

Daniel 11:21 "And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceable, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries."

When the Antichrist (Satan) comes, there will be no war. He will come as a man of peace and prosperity. The battle Satan will fight is one of deception.( Revelation 12: 9 ) This is why we are warned in the sixth chapter of Ephesians to "be strong in the Lord and int he power of His might". (See verse 10.) Verses 11-16 then tell us what armor we must put on to face the battle Satan has for us. This armor is to protect our minds from the deceptions of the Antichrist. It is with this "vile person" that we will be in a spiritual battle with; and it will be fought with words, ideas, and concepts.

Daniel 11:31 "And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate."

This army is on Satan's part. Remember in Mark 13:14 where Jesus said, "But when ye shall see the Abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ( he ) ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judea flee to the mountains:" This is it.

Daniel 11:32 "And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries; but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits."

Do you know the instructions Jesus and the prophets gave to warn us of the Antichrist? Do you know that almost all of the people living will see the Antichrist before our Lord's return? If this is sealed in your mind, you won't fall or be deceived.

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

nathan3 said:

If the popes sit in a throne with cheribim on each side now, what makes you think they wouldnt do so IF a 3rd temple was rebuilt? (it may not be a pope, but the pope would have to give hie "title" of god man (that they do claim, clearly shown in my prior posts) to another which is possible. nut none of what you say shows satan is a man, satan is not a man and never will be. satan may posses the final anti-Messiah but that is speculation. However we do know the beast system lead by the anti-Messiah does get its power from satan.

Communion is only "the daily sacrifice" to Catholics, Yahshua Sacrifieced Himself ONE time, anything else is blasphemy, Hebrews is clear that it was a onw time thing. "communion" NOT dont the way the RCC says, but the way Yahshua sya is done in remembreance of Him, that is Scrpitual, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DAILY SACRIFICE. The RCC teaches every time they do "communion" christ comes down and re sacrices Himself, this is discusting. THERE WAS ONE SACRIFICE THAT DID THE WORK OF RECINCILITION, TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE IS ANTI-MESSIAH, and that is further proof against the RCC, and or their system.

Your right about satans will to be as the Most High, however, satan has always used idols, people, made up stories, dead people/"saints", false doctries, etc, etc, etc to usurp worship. IMO this is the same, satan will use people to achieve this

no doubt satan is cast to earth, but that does not even imply satan is a man, satan is called the prince of the power of the air.

this is gret work in digging, i have not looked int the meaning of all these words but i will give you the benefit, and trust it:

Son of Perdition Perdition = apōleia ( base of Satan's name Apollyon )

You said "predition" os a name ot title for satan

so this is then saying "son of satan"

Gabriel means ? Man of God

just as Gabriyl is a messenger/slave of Yahweh, the anti-Messiah is a messenger/slave of satan.

I think you breakdown of this predition thing further proves this.

SON OF Perdition = apōleia ( base of Satan's name Apollyon )

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

Revelation 13:13, "And he does great wonders, so that he makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men."

G4442

πῦρ

pur

poor

A primary word; fire (literally or {figuratively} specifically lightning ): - {fiery} fire.

The pope having golden ups, and sitting in some chair does and surrounded by some hills., is not what Revelation is talking about. : /

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Do you really think that people are worshiping the wrinkly old pope as a god? really ? Does the Whole world call Him god ? .

It is Not written. I don't care if Liberace and Elton John sits on a golden Throne or toilet and drinks from golden cups and stored their wafers in golden tub-aware...It has nothing to do with scripture.

The scripture Shows, Satan was a Real, Cherub. A angel. I already gave you the scriptures there. I even looked up all the Greek words for His names.

Your not going to get your answers in images of the pope or pictures. Real study is from the scriptures. and that is were the focus needs to remain.

Hizikyah · Sep 12, 2013

doulos said:

they do teach a 3 day resurrection, however it is a fale one, they say Fri-Sun (dagon fish fridays - Sol invictus SUN day)

The truth is Wed - Sat, I have a scriptual study proving this, if you disagree please chek it out and we can go from there (on that topic)

Again christ as the only SUN of god yes, see above photo^

To say im not using Scripture but doctrines of men is not true, I showed 7 hills scripture, perple and scarlet scrip., changing times and Laws scrip., 666 scrip., claiming to be a father scrip., exalt himself to be as host scrip., etc. and there is more i didnt put on here, in reality, i used more scripture than you did, and they do deny yahshua by their works and teaching, the mediator scrip, again exalting man to His status, casting the tuth to the ground. etc etc etc etc

Communion is only "the daily sacrifice" to Catholics, Yahshua Sacrifieced Himself ONE time, anything else is blasphemy, Hebrews is clear that it was a onw time thing. "communion" NOT dont the way the RCC says, but the way Yahshua says is done in remembreance of Him, that is Scrpitual. The RCC teaches every time they do "communion" christ comes down and re sacrices Himself, this is discusting. THERE WAS ONE SACRIFICE THAT DID THE WORK OF RECINCILITION, TO SAY ANYTHING ELSE IS ANTI-MESSIAH, and that is further proof against the RCC, and or their system.

nathan3 · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Your in error there, because Christ told all Christians to do that. It is Not a catholic thing, Grief .. It is symbolic of Christ sacrifice Obviously , But the wine and unleavened Bread we do in obedience to Christ commands All Christians. The Catholics don't own that...

The purpose of the scriptures you missed was that The daily Sacrifice IS Christ

, meaning that verse is talking about Christ. and when Satan gets here, people think, Its Christ, and they worship Satan, instead, of Christ, that is what is meant by the communion stops, or the sacrifice to Christ stops, because they are worshiping Satan, that is what is meant in That Daniel verse.

Luke 22:19-20

King James Version (KJV)

19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

20 Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Bookends · Sep 12, 2013

Hizikyah said:

Can you refute something non-scriptural with scripture?

Who/What is the antichrist?

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