The West Dethroned

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Hi Hoffco.

In regards the attacking of Lebanese civilians by the Israelis; the USA vetoing this resolution means when the UN stated that it wanted to condemn Israel for attacking Lebanese civilians, the US stated that no it would not allow that condemnation to go through. Israel is free to continue to attack Lebanese civilians with no consequence. All these Vetos have resulted in the Israel you see today. Untouchable.

Of course Israel was just attacking innocent Lebanese civilians..right?

Evil USA.

Evil Israel.

The UN is a joke and always has been. It has no bite and as far as I know, without our funding it would not exist.

Without the USA as a dominant world power, who would take her place?

Russia?

China?

Ya really want that? The USA is not perfect but the alternative is very very scary.

By the way Bigfoot just ran by on his way to the illuminati meeting concerning petrol dollars and Al Gore.
 
Of course Israel was just attacking innocent Lebanese civilians..right?

Evil USA.

Evil Israel.

The UN is a joke and always has been. It has no bite and as far as I know, without our funding it would not exist.

Without the USA as a dominant world power, who would take her place?

Russia?

China?

Ya really want that? The USA is not perfect but the alternative is very very scary.

By the way Bigfoot just ran by on his way to the illuminati meeting concerning petrol dollars and Al Gore.

Your justification for the killing of civilians is a bit depressing.
 
Your prejudice against everything Israel and USA is appalling.

I think I have built a strong case on why I am appalled with both. You have not built any case on killing civilians is justified.
 
I think I have built a strong case on why I am appalled with both. You have not built any case on killing civilians is justified.

I don't think he is trying to justify it so much as he is trying to compare apples and apples. Only one of those apples is an extrapolated apple filled with "what if's."

His argument is valid if we are to believe the 20th century stats of killings due to war and killings due to State persecution.

My POV is more globally depressing and it is very well-outlined in Paul Johnson's Modern Times. Moral relativism infected all nations to the point that total ware became justified and implemented then almost understandably returned in-kind.

Nobody is safe. If Australia in its present state were to discover unobtanium and experienced some sort of great boom of immigration, the economic and political power thus accumulated would force it to make decisions abroad that cement its place at home. Unless a burst of Christian sentiments and Church activity in all sectors of life occurred concurrently, the nation's government would act similarly to the US of A.

What will get people to wake up? A catastrophe.
 
I don't think he is trying to justify it so much as he is trying to compare apples and apples. Only one of those apples is an extrapolated apple filled with "what if's."

His argument is valid if we are to believe the 20th century stats of killings due to war and killings due to State persecution.

My POV is more globally depressing and it is very well-outlined in Paul Johnson's Modern Times. Moral relativism infected all nations to the point that total ware became justified and implemented then almost understandably returned in-kind.

Nobody is safe. If Australia in its present state were to discover unobtanium and experienced some sort of great boom of immigration, the economic and political power thus accumulated would force it to make decisions abroad that cement its place at home. Unless a burst of Christian sentiments and Church activity in all sectors of life occurred concurrently, the nation's government would act similarly to the US of A.

What will get people to wake up? A catastrophe.

hey ritter.
a catastrophe already happened and the people didn't wake up.
they responded in accordance with the diabolical conditioning they had already been prepared by, and en masse agreed to and took part in a monstrous mobilization out into the far corners of the earth - to destroy.

because i understand the power of trauma/fear-based conditioning and propaganda, i feel a measure of sympathy for the people of the united states, even a little, to this day.

but, after believing a catastrophic lie....they went out....not to plant or build (like their prior glorious christian missionary call), but to kill. for caesar (i'll say), in the name of Jesus.

moral relativism has not infected every nation - not the way we think of it.
some have maintained the institution of marriage; the structure of the family; the rejection of abortion and pornography (weapons of war); and the rejection of the abomination of usury.

some may overtly practice slavery or caste systems - are we ourselves not enslaving and slaves and to usury; pornography; violence; drugs; sex?

i wonder which slave can find a measure of dignity and honor in their position in life as a slave - the one who knows their condition or the one who doesn't. the one who doesn't goes out to "free" the one who does - by destroying everything he has.

we may not agree with the moral systems of other nations, but the spread of "freedom and democracy" isn't working out on the ground. it was never intended to.

'democracy' was never legitimate. ever. it doesn't exist. it's a trick. a word. it's no accident it's never been precisely defined.
the only voting that counts is the voting of the ruling powers amongst themselves - which of us will rule this season?

the Constitutional Republic is gone. the Executive Branch is now all there is. and it belongs to someone else. you now have only The State. the states themselves can hold out a measure of autonomy for a time, but when you have corporate fascism in the Executive, the states are at the mercy of global trading agreements and treaties they never had a say in.

because Congress belongs to someone else.

which brings me back to the 20th century death-by-government issue.

two words: gun control.
two more: wake up.

people have got to study history - very quickly. deconditioning can take a long time. it takes as long as it takes to get started.
everything is pre-planned. we just have to find the plans and know what the endgame is.

the UN isn't the endgame - it was meant to be a losing proposition.

zone
 
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just for clarification - we know how it ends for saved people....what i was thinking about was in terms of reactionary motions made by nations (primarily the united states) - how can we slow this puppy down....long enough to figure out who is really under attack and why.

my own country is neck deep in this too, btw. it always was. hidden - under the guise of neutrality and 'friendliness'. the cap on the pyramid possibly, the hiding place for some pretty heavy hitters.

anyways....that prolly made no sense at all....lol.
 
My point isn't to say chikd deaths are a good or acceptable thing. My point is the reason for them is NOT the evil USA but those who hide amungst them and the ones who caused this war to begin with...Saddam Hussein and the insurgents.

Japan was not a bed of roses after ww2 either...and we are still there....and they embraced western culture, relatively speaking, much more than Iraq has.

To blame the USA for child deaths is inaccurate bordering on agenda ridden....and given the resoures presented tpo support your ideologies, I was proven correct.

The only possible response was to call me names...which is typical of those without true foundations.
 
My point isn't to say chikd deaths are a good or acceptable thing. My point is the reason for them is NOT the evil USA but those who hide amungst them and the ones who caused this war to begin with...Saddam Hussein and the insurgents.

this argument might have been excusable in the first days of confusion.
it's intolerable today.

bomb everybody and hope you get them terrorists...even though Saddam had nuthin' to do with it.
k. God save us from ppl who think the way you do.
you've had over a decade to figure this out. if you can't be bothered, just be quiet.

...


Bush: Saddam was not responsible for 9/11
Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
theguardian.com, Tuesday 12 September 2006 03.54 BST
Bush: Saddam was not responsible for 9/11 | World news | theguardian.com

Why did so many Americans believe Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks?
By Global Research
Global Research, March 05, 2010
Why did so many Americans believe Saddam Hussein was behind the 9/11 attacks? | Global Research

How did the U.S. government lead its people to war?
Bush Administration Claims vs. The Facts
The implication that Iraq was involved in the attacks of 9/11 was untrue
Leading To War :: a film that chronicles the path to war in Iraq

Bush rejects Saddam 9/11 link
US President George Bush has said there is no evidence that Saddam Hussein was involved in the 11 September attacks.
BBC NEWS | Americas | Bush rejects Saddam 9/11 link


BUT - don't despair Son. you're not totally alone:rolleyes::


Dick Cheney Still Thinks [cough] Saddam Hussein Was Involved in 9/11

BY ALI GHARIB ON SEPTEMBER 7, 2011 AT 3:30 PM

cheney1.jpg


In an interview on CNN, former Vice President Dick Cheney suggested that while there was no confirmation tying the deposed late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein to the al Qaeda plot that brought down the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, the possibility still existed that there was collaboration.

Rather than telling host Wolf Blitzer that allegations about Hussien and 9/11 had been wrong, Cheney repeatedly said that there was no confirmation of the links:

BLITZER: But just to be precise, [Hussein] had no involvement with al Qaeda and planning or implementing 9/11?

CHENEY: He had no responsibility that we were ever able to confirm for 9/11. We were told right after 9/11, I received a briefing from the CIA provided to me by George Tenet that he had. [...]

BLITZER: But that turned out to be false?

CHENEY: Turned out to be false.
But at the time, he — supposedly, Mohamed Atta, who was the leader hijacker, had met with one of the senior officials of the Iraq intelligence service in Prague five months before 9/11. That was information provided to us by our intelligence.

BLITZER: False intelligence.

CHENEY: Yes, but you didn’t know it was false. The CIA didn’t come in and say this is false. There were months that went by that they in fact had that very much on their platter.

Now, in the final analysis, they were never able to confirm it. But initial reporting was that there had in fact been this cooperation if you will between Mohamed Atta and the head of Iraqi intelligence.

.....


more faulty intelligence.

right.
 
Why is clear cut facts so hard to understand by those who hate the USA?

Never said anything about terrorists. I said insurgents.

Saddam Hussein was the reason for the Iraqi war unless you propose we went there just to kill children.

There were wmd in Iraq. Not many but some. The intel suggested there were there and it was not just the budget cut CIA who said they were there ( thank you Bill Clinton ) but many world intel groups did too. A possibility also exists that they were moved, which seems to hold more weight now since someone in Syria has used them.

Next thing we will hear is how George Bush planned and executed the attack on the trade center buildings....or how evil america started all this by funding saddam against Iran.

Just go on all those wonderful sites you get your..lol...information?...lol...from.

Just a fyi..Bigfoot is the head illuminati and him and his alien buddies are gonna take over the world, no matter what Pinky says.
 
Hi Zone

I think I need to revisit how a debate works. I thought you put your case forward with evidence. The other person then refutes your evidence with examples and then put their own evidence forward. If you can bring testimony of an expert or a witness then all the better. Your opinion alone is not considered a viable argument.

It seems here you can put your evidence forward and no attempt is made to refute it. It is just ignored. If you reply sarcastically, emotionally and/or put a lot of lol...lol...lol in your reply then that is deemed enough.

I better throw some in to cover myself

...lol...lol
 
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When you present false evidence over and over, then your position is clear.

When you use anecdotal, hyperbole and propaganda, that has no foundation, study, or factual basis, then your position is clear.

Just another fyi....just because its in print, or on the internet, does not make it..true...or news...or something to put stock into.
 
I'm amazed at the amount of desinformation there is online. It's true, not everything on the internet is true, but one can somewhat discern that something looks shady when there is more information behind than the one offered on the mainstream media. I don't trust mainstream media as a principal source of information, and I'm surprised some people do.

That being said, I don't think the USA has been ''dethroned''. The US remains one of the most (if not the most) influential powers in the world. I don't believe the USA is evil, though I very much doubt many of the wars it has been involved in are the result of a big and compassionate heart, but of power and greed. Other nations are also guilty of those sins, the thing is that they are not so big or rich or influential to make those sins known to the whole world. As for the USA being ''the police'' of the world, I think it is almost expected that the most influential power alive unofficially assumes that role, not because they are supposed to, but because the circumstances allow this to happen.
 
When you present false evidence over and over, then your position is clear.

When you use anecdotal, hyperbole and propaganda, that has no foundation, study, or factual basis, then your position is clear.

Just another fyi....just because its in print, or on the internet, does not make it..true...or news...or something to put stock into.

It's that pesky debate thing again. If you say it is false evidence etc. Prove it.
 
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When you present false evidence over and over, then your position is clear.

When you use anecdotal, hyperbole and propaganda, that has no foundation, study, or factual basis, then your position is clear.

Just another fyi....just because its in print, or on the internet, does not make it..true...or news...or something to put stock into.

will govt records do:confused:



VI. CONCLUSION
Because of the gravity of the subject and the President’s unique access to classified information, members of Congress and the public expect the President and his senior officials to take special care to be balanced and accurate in describing national security threats. It does not appear, however, that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Powell, and National Security Advisor Rice met this standard in the case of Iraq. To the contrary, these five officials repeatedly made misleading statements about the threat posed by Iraq. In 125 separate appearances, they made 11 misleading statements about the urgency of Iraq’s threat, 81 misleading statements about Iraq’s nuclear activities, 84 misleading statements about Iraq’s chemical and biological capabilities, and 61 misleading statements about Iraq’s relationship with al Qaeda.

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM — MINORITY STAFF
SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS DIVISION
MARCH 16, 2004
IRAQ ON THE RECORD
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION’S PUBLIC STATEMENTS ON IRAQ
PREPARED FOR REP. HENRY A. WAXMAN


http://web.archive.org/web/20060514...fs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf - click


see also:

Senate investigation - 2006
http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/phaseiiaccuracy-1.pdf - click

...

and more:

Dick Cheney and Don Rumsfeld - “applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein’s regime”

Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida link
Jonathan S. Landay | McClatchy Newspapers

Report: Abusive tactics used to seek Iraq-al Qaida link | McClatchy - click

...

“the administration authorized harsh interrogation......its principal priority for intelligence was not aimed at pre-empting another terrorist attack on the U.S. but discovering a smoking gun linking Iraq and al-Qa’ida.”

The Truth About Richard Bruce Cheney
Stevel Clemons Washington Note May 13 2009

The Truth About Richard Bruce Cheney The Washington Note by Steven Clemons - click

...

“Iraq was involved in September 11.......report that’s been pretty well confirmed, that he did go to Prague and he did meet with a senior official of the Iraqi intelligence service in Czechoslovakia last April, several months before the attack.”

Dick Cheney, Meet the Press, Tim Russert - December 9 2001
washingtonpost.com - click


BUT - CIA tells Cheney the report was false a day before the Meet the Press interview:

CIA - 11 September 2001 hijacker Mohamed Atta did not travel to the Czech Republic on 31 May 2000
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/368985-2001-12-08-terrorism-discovery-that-11-september.html - click

TWO YEARS LATER CHENEY STILL LIES ABOUT KNOWING:

Russert asks Cheney if he is surprised that 69 percent of Americans believe Saddam was involved in the September 11 attacks:

“I think it’s not surprising that people make that connection....with respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it.

Dick Cheney, Meet the Press, Tim Russert - September 14, 2003
Transcript for Sept. 14 - Meet the Press | NBC News - click

...

“The supposed alliance between Saddam’s regime and al-Qa’ida clearly did not drive the Bush administration’s decision to launch the war because the administration was receiving no indications that any such alliance existed.....this fact did not stop the administration from nonetheless promoting publicly the notion of such an alliance.

By August 2003, after another year that included the most intensive selling of the war, more than two-thirds of Americans thought Saddam had been involved in 9/11. Some of this belief was due to innuendo such as the vice president’s repeated references to a phantom meeting in Prague between an Iraqi and 9/11 hijacker Mohammed Atta. It was due mostly to the administration’s rhetorical drumbeat that repeatedly mentioned Iraq, 9/11, and “war on terror” in the same breath.

Paul R Pillar - CIA analyst, National Intelligence Officer for the Near East and South Asia
Intelligence and U.S. Foreign Policy: Iraq, 9/11, and Misguided Reform

Intelligence and U.S. Foreign Policy: Iraq, 9/11, and Misguided Reform: Paul R. Pillar: 9780231157926: Amazon.com: Books - click

...

10 years ago today, George Bush gave his final warning to Saddam Hussein to leave Iraq or face war. While the first half of Bush’s speech cited Saddam’s purported refusal to give up his WMD program, the second half of the speech was littered with insinuations about Saddam’s terrorist allies.

CIA Continues to Cover Up Dick Cheney’s War-Mongering
Marcy Wheeler, March 17, 2013

CIA Continues to Cover Up Dick Cheney’s War-Mongering | emptywheel - click
 
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Evil USA using waterboarding...

compare that to our presidents new rebel allies in Syria...cutting the appendages from a young christian girl with a saw.

Ya can't even compare the two

ussert asks Cheney if he is surprised that 69 percent of Americans believe Saddam was involved in the September 11 attacks:

“I think it’s not surprising that people make that connection....with respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it.

This means he does not know. That's not saying Iraq was involved in 9/11 and we did not go into Iraq because of 9/11 either, but why go into that again?

Show me where I said the terrorists who flew into the towers were iraqis or from iraq or that iraq fundede them or anything of the sort.

I did not. I stated the reasons why we went into Iraq. The media, as always, focused on the lesser reasons because they had less weight...and because they implicated their darling Clinton AND Bush sr, the cowards that they were.

Should I explain once again what happens when the conditions of a ceasefire agreement are broken? Of course not, it won't matter. Its the pile of horse manure the media puked up that matters.

Another amazing fact that always is ignored in this debate is...no solution was ever proposed by those who did not support the war...none, not once.

But I waste my breath.
 
When you present false evidence over and over, then your position is clear.

When you use anecdotal, hyperbole and propaganda, that has no foundation, study, or factual basis, then your position is clear.

Just another fyi....just because its in print, or on the internet, does not make it..true...or news...or something to put stock into.

will govt records do:confused:



VI. CONCLUSION
Because of the gravity of the subject and the President’s unique access to classified information, members of Congress and the public expect the President and his senior officials to take special care to be balanced and accurate in describing national security threats. It does not appear, however, that President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Secretary Rumsfeld, Secretary Powell, and National Security Advisor Rice met this standard in the case of Iraq. To the contrary, these five officials repeatedly made misleading statements about the threat posed by Iraq. In 125 separate appearances, they made 11 misleading statements about the urgency of Iraq’s threat, 81 misleading statements about Iraq’s nuclear activities, 84 misleading statements about Iraq’s chemical and biological capabilities, and 61 misleading statements about Iraq’s relationship with al Qaeda.

UNITED STATES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM — MINORITY STAFF
SPECIAL INVESTIGATIONS DIVISION
MARCH 16, 2004
IRAQ ON THE RECORD
THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION’S PUBLIC STATEMENTS ON IRAQ
PREPARED FOR REP. HENRY A. WAXMAN


http://web.archive.org/web/20060514...fs_inves/pdf_admin_iraq_on_the_record_rep.pdf - click


see also:

Senate investigation - 2006
http://www.emptywheel.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/phaseiiaccuracy-1.pdf - click

Son proceeds to ignore evidence from govt documents - changes subject:

Evil USA using waterboarding...

compare that to our presidents new rebel allies in Syria...cutting the appendages from a young christian girl with a saw.

cough

Ya can't even compare the two

you just did.

Russert asks Cheney if he is surprised that 69 percent of Americans believe Saddam was involved in the September 11 attacks:

“I think it’s not surprising that people make that connection....with respect to 9/11, of course, we’ve had the story that’s been public out there. The Czechs alleged that Mohamed Atta, the lead attacker, met in Prague with a senior Iraqi intelligence official five months before the attack, but we’ve never been able to develop anymore of that yet either in terms of confirming it or discrediting it.

This means he does not know. That's not saying Iraq was involved in 9/11 and we did not go into Iraq because of 9/11 either, but why go into that again?

Show me where I said the terrorists who flew into the towers were iraqis or from iraq or that iraq fundede them or anything of the sort.

I did not. I stated the reasons why we went into Iraq. The media, as always, focused on the lesser reasons because they had less weight...and because they implicated their darling Clinton AND Bush sr, the cowards that they were.

Should I explain once again what happens when the conditions of a ceasefire agreement are broken? Of course not, it won't matter. Its the pile of horse manure the media puked up that matters.

ceasefire.....yes.
please explain again.
include your insurgents posts.

Another amazing fact that always is ignored in this debate is...no solution was ever proposed by those who did not support the war...none, not once.

solution to what.....solution to what Son. spell it out nice and simple for me.

why do you call yourself a disciple of Jesus Christ.

But I waste my breath.

nah - your brain needs oxygen.
carry on.
 
I do not take kindly to attacks on my salvation. Please refrain.

Solution to what? The Saddam problem of course. Ya know, the Iraq war? Giove me your solution, other than war to Saddam breaking the ceasefire agreement over and over?

This is how 9/11 influenced our decision to go into Iraq...

Saddam had been breaking the cease fore agreement for years. He thumbed his nose at the agreement we signed and stood by. Couple breaking that agreement ( which means firing begins again ) with the enviroment of terrorism, Saddam's actions also emboldened the terrorists to commit 9/11 because after all the USA had not upheld their end of the ceasefire agreement...we were seen as weak. If after all those years of Saddam breaking that agreement and we did nothing, why not attack the USA?
 
I do not take kindly to attacks on my salvation. Please refrain.

Quote Originally Posted by SonInMe
Another amazing fact that always is ignored in this debate is...no solution was ever proposed by those who did not support the war...none, not once.


support the war?
what disciple of Jesus of Nazareth supported the invasion (mass murder and DU abomination war crimes) of Iraq?
show me one.

Solution to what? The Saddam problem of course. Ya know, the Iraq war? Giove me your solution, other than war to Saddam breaking the ceasefire agreement over and over?

what 'saddam problem'? saddam was a partner in crime-pal.....didn't ya know that?
he got sucker punched like the Colonel.

what on earth are you talking about.
is this what you're on about?

The Iraq Resolution or the Iraq War Resolution (formally the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002,[1] Pub.L. 107–243, 116 Stat. 1498, enacted October 16, 2002, H.J.Res. 114) is a joint resolution passed by the United States Congress in October 2002 as Public Law No: 107-243, authorizing military action against Iraq.

The resolution cited many factors to justify the use of military force against Iraq:[2][3]

Iraq's noncompliance with the conditions of the 1991 ceasefire agreement, including interference with U.N. weapons inspectors.
Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction, and programs to develop such weapons, posed a "threat to the national security of the United States and international peace and security in the Persian Gulf region."
Iraq's "brutal repression of its civilian population."
Iraq's "capability and willingness to use weapons of mass destruction against other nations and its own people".
Iraq's hostility towards the United States as demonstrated by the 1993 assassination attempt on former President George H. W. Bush and firing on coalition aircraft enforcing the no-fly zones following the 1991 Gulf War.
Members of al-Qaeda, an organization bearing responsibility for attacks on the United States, its citizens, and interests, including the attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, are known to be in Iraq.
Iraq's "continu[ing] to aid and harbor other international terrorist organizations," including anti-United States terrorist organizations.
Iraq paid bounty to families of suicide bombers.
The efforts by the Congress and the President to fight terrorists, and those who aided or harbored them.
The authorization by the Constitution and the Congress for the President to fight anti-United States terrorism.
The governments in Turkey, Kuwait, and Saudi Arabia feared Saddam and wanted him removed from power.
Citing the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, the resolution reiterated that it should be the policy of the United States to remove the Saddam Hussein regime and promote a democratic replacement.

Iraq Resolution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click

Doe v. Bush, 323 F.3d 133 (1st Cir. 2003), was a court case challenging the constitutionality of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. The case was dismissed, since the plaintiffs failed "to raise a sufficiently clear constitutional issue."[1] The Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002 was challenged by "a coalition of U.S. soldiers, parents of U.S. soldiers, and members of Congress" prior to the invasion to stop it from happening.[1] They claimed that an invasion of Iraq would be illegal. Judge Lynch wrote of their argument, "They base this argument on two theories. They argue that Congress and the President are in collision -- that the President is about to act in violation of the October Resolution. They also argue that Congress and the President are in collusion -- that Congress has handed over to the President its exclusive power to declare war."[2]

Doe v. Bush - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is how 9/11 influenced our decision to go into Iraq...

Saddam had been breaking the cease fore agreement for years. He thumbed his nose at the agreement we signed and stood by. Couple breaking that agreement ( which means firing begins again ) with the enviroment of terrorism, Saddam's actions also emboldened the terrorists to commit 9/11 because after all the USA had not upheld their end of the ceasefire agreement...we were seen as weak. If after all those years of Saddam breaking that agreement and we did nothing, why not attack the USA?

how many times do you have to hear BUSH & CO say Saddam and Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11?
12 years and counting since 9-11.
and 7 years + they've been saying it in public.


Bush: Saddam was not responsible for 9/11

Suzanne Goldenberg in Washington
theguardian.com,
Tuesday 12 September 2006 03.54 BST

George Bush last night admitted that Saddam Hussein had no hand in the 9/11 terror attacks, but he asked Americans to support a war in Iraq that he said was the defining struggle of our age.

he president conceded some crucial ideological ground, formally disavowing the neo-conservative accusation that Saddam had played a role in the attacks on September 11 2001. But he was unapologetic about the decision to invade Iraq.

"I am often asked why we are in Iraq when Saddam Hussein was not responsible for the 9/11 attacks," Mr Bush said. "The answer is that the regime of Saddam Hussein was a clear threat. My administration, the Congress, and the United Nations saw the threat - and after 9/11, Saddam's regime posed a risk that the world could not afford to take.

"The world is safer because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power."

Bush: Saddam was not responsible for 9/11 | World news | theguardian.com < click

IS THE WORLD A SAFER PLACE?
 
I have no answer to the irrational previous post. I'll just let zone's words define zone.