Something To Think About

[Josh321]

if we are suppose to be under the grace of God and i'm seeing crazy threads like can a legalist be under grace? and other things, well the bible said it and you see it just shows his far away people are from God, i urge everyone to seek the face of God for understanding, when you seek you will find i guarantee that

2 Thessalonians 2:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

now what exactly does this mean? what is grace?

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

you see we are all sinners and filthy in the heart but yet God can look at us and love us and willing save us through his grace, with the faith that we have God senses that it is genuine faith so he steps in and saves us and reveal himself to us through his grace, the word grace means unmerited favor which means not deserve

Romans 11:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

this verse alone should make people run to God even further the people trying to earn salvation by works i don't truly believe people understand this word grace or what it really means, it means he doesn't HAVE TO DO IT which means no matter how much Good deeds if you give to the poor or whatever it is something God willingly does for us, i've heard alot of testimonies where God just grab people out of a group and just pour the holy spirit on them changing them in an instant, i've heard a testimony about a pastor i believe, said he was in a gang saw people head got blown off infront of him in drug houses and he was a slave to the world and didn't realise it but God had something different planned for him, i can't exactly remember but something happen that draw him closer to God then he accepted God, that is the grace of God right there, this man never live a christian life like most people but yet God still choose to call him and bring him into his family that is the grace of God right there and if God doesn't call you no one can receive it the scripture said so

John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

but what kind of people receive this grace of God?

James 4:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Proverbs 3:34
King James Version (KJV)
34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

So lets not be proud or have an unbreakable pride that isn't willing to listen to anyone, i don't know everything i'm still learning i didn't even know that the book of romans is paul neither do i know every single scripture i'm always willing to learn if i said something wrong or someone proves me wrong i will admit that i was wrong, that's what people let get in the way their pride also gets alot of people in trouble, but i hope this was enlightening to some of you, i love you all and God bless.

[h=3]John 1:16-17[/h]King James Version (KJV)

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

 

[texascowgirl]

I think like you when I see threads and postings asking if this one and that one worship the same God because there is only ONE God

 

[Hizikyah]

THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Yahchanan 14:23-24, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My word and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me, does not keep My sayings. Now the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's Who sent Me."

 

[Josh321]

THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Yahchanan 14:23-24, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My word and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me, does not keep My sayings. Now the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's Who sent Me."

i'm talking about the grace of God why would you bring this in here for another argument...? please don't and if your trying to direct this to me how am i breaking the law?

 

[Josh321]

there is no conclusion for that, so lets not start that here this thread is about the grace of God

 

[Hizikyah]

if we are suppose to be under the grace of God and i'm seeing crazy threads like can a legalist be under grace?

when this is your first line I think your agenda is clear. I posted what I posted to show you what you seem to call a legalists is one that is obedient to Yahshua's words. If you can explain to me how those verses I quoted mean not to keep and teach Yahweh's Law I might join you in your mystery of iniquity, until then I will do as yahshua tells me to. Brother Josh, obedience is not legalism, trying to enter the kingdom off the Law is legalism, we dont forget Yahweh's instructions because we have been given mercy.

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

 

[Brother_Don]

Grace is Gods Goodness, and His love for us, that brought us to Him. Grace is not spitting in Gods face, and thinking we can live how ever we want. God gave us His Word for guidance, not as a suggestion.

 

[homwardbound]

if we are suppose to be under the grace of God and i'm seeing crazy threads like can a legalist be under grace? and other things, well the bible said it and you see it just shows his far away people are from God, i urge everyone to seek the face of God for understanding, when you seek you will find i guarantee that

2 Thessalonians 2:16King James Version (KJV)
16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

now what exactly does this mean? what is grace?

Ephesians 2:8-9
King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:


9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

you see we are all sinners and filthy in the heart but yet God can look at us and love us and willing save us through his grace, with the faith that we have God senses that it is genuine faith so he steps in and saves us and reveal himself to us through his grace, the word grace means unmerited favor which means not deserve

Romans 11:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

this verse alone should make people run to God even further the people trying to earn salvation by works i don't truly believe people understand this word grace or what it really means, it means he doesn't HAVE TO DO IT which means no matter how much Good deeds if you give to the poor or whatever it is something God willingly does for us, i've heard alot of testimonies where God just grab people out of a group and just pour the holy spirit on them changing them in an instant, i've heard a testimony about a pastor i believe, said he was in a gang saw people head got blown off infront of him in drug houses and he was a slave to the world and didn't realise it but God had something different planned for him, i can't exactly remember but something happen that draw him closer to God then he accepted God, that is the grace of God right there, this man never live a christian life like most people but yet God still choose to call him and bring him into his family that is the grace of God right there and if God doesn't call you no one can receive it the scripture said so

John 6:44
King James Version (KJV)
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

but what kind of people receive this grace of God?

James 4:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

Proverbs 3:34
King James Version (KJV)
34 Surely he scorneth the scorners: but he giveth grace unto the lowly.

So lets not be proud or have an unbreakable pride that isn't willing to listen to anyone, i don't know everything i'm still learning i didn't even know that the book of romans is paul neither do i know every single scripture i'm always willing to learn if i said something wrong or someone proves me wrong i will admit that i was wrong, that's what people let get in the way their pride also gets alot of people in trouble, but i hope this was enlightening to some of you, i love you all and God bless.

John 1:16-17

King James Version (KJV)

16 And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace.
17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

I think possibly the mixing of Law and grace is involved in fear.
Let me explain:

I remember, a time when I was distraught in life, had tried many things to be good at, and always had despair. Returned to where I started out at, in no contentment, and tried again and again to be perfect, and just could not do it.

Then I heard one day a voice that sad come with me and I did. I was taken to the edge of this world and told to look over that edge. I did and saw no bottom. Then as I looked I heard Jump. I said what? I heard Jump again. I said hey, if I jump I would be left to fall and fall away to uncontrollable circumstances, seeing no bottom to land on.
The voice said then yes my Son that is true if I (God) were not real, but Son I am real and when you jump. I (God) will catch you in the palm of my hand and lead you the rest of your life.
Are you now ready to jump, do you trust me. I jumped Spiritually and have not looked back, trusting God in all things, teaching me truth through all errors ever made and might make. knowing God is for me, therefore no one can ever really be against and ever prosper. Entering his courts with thanksgiving and praise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Love to all Homwardbound

 

[homwardbound]

THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

Yahchanan 14:23-24, "Yahshua answered, and said to him: If a man loves Me, he will keep My word and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me, does not keep My sayings. Now the word which you hear is not Mine, but the Father's Who sent Me."

there is a before and after the cross Brother. Otherwise what importance has the cross?
Before under Law and shown our inability to obey it in and of self, and the need for new life.

After the cross where Christ took it all on for us, in order to be born again. By Father in the resurrection. A gift to us if we believe Father.
So it is Motive that one receives Mercy over sacrifice from God if God gives it to you, me and or anyone else. And this depends on Motive, as to whether one sees truth as truth actually is from God. God decides and has Mercy on whom God has Mercy on.
So I say have no motive but to know God the creator of all

"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

And with that motive I am positive God will grant the Mercy to those that have the above Motive. will know the truth that sets them free to be content in all things that happen to them and others here on earth, knowing they are covered and smothered in God's amazing Mercy. Loving all as God has loved them, giving Mercy back out as was recieved

 

[Hizikyah]

there is a before and after the cross Brother. Otherwise what importance has the cross?
Before under Law and shown our inability to obey it in and of self, and the need for new life.

After the cross where Christ took it all on for us, in order to be born again. By Father in the resurrection. A gift to us if we believe Father.
So it is Motive that one receives Mercy over sacrifice from God if God gives it to you, me and or anyone else. And this depends on Motive, as to whether one sees truth as truth actually is from God. God decides and has Mercy on whom God has Mercy on.
So I say have no motive but to know God the creator of all

"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

And with that motive I am positive God will grant the Mercy to those that have the above Motive. will know the truth that sets them free to be content in all things that happen to them and others here on earth, knowing they are covered and smothered in God's amazing Mercy. Loving all as God has loved them, giving Mercy back out as was recieved

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

Yahshua didnt speak to have His words forgotten 15minutes later, it is a very evil thing to trash His words, IDK if you are or not, your answers are always not really to the point.

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

 

[Starcrash]

I think like you when I see threads and postings asking if this one and that one worship the same God because there is only ONE God

You're equivocating. If two people have mutually exclusive beliefs about their own gods (for instance, one's god promises eternal life in heaven and another promises re-incarnation back to Earth), then they are clearly worshiping different gods.

But I'm curious about your certainty in "only one god". Do you have evidence of that? You could cite the bible, but an atheist like myself or a believer in a different bible that proposes multiple gods wouldn't care what your particular favored holy book has to say on the subject. Not a single argument for the existence of god excludes the possibility of more than one god. So why are you so sure that it's true?

 

[Josh321]

there is a before and after the cross Brother. Otherwise what importance has the cross?
Before under Law and shown our inability to obey it in and of self, and the need for new life.

After the cross where Christ took it all on for us, in order to be born again. By Father in the resurrection. A gift to us if we believe Father.
So it is Motive that one receives Mercy over sacrifice from God if God gives it to you, me and or anyone else. And this depends on Motive, as to whether one sees truth as truth actually is from God. God decides and has Mercy on whom God has Mercy on.
So I say have no motive but to know God the creator of all

"Comfort God by letting God know that you would see God just to dwell in God's Presence. Not for teaching, not for material gain, not even for a message, but for God. The longing of the human heart to be loved for itself is something caught from the Great Divine Heart."

And with that motive I am positive God will grant the Mercy to those that have the above Motive. will know the truth that sets them free to be content in all things that happen to them and others here on earth, knowing they are covered and smothered in God's amazing Mercy. Loving all as God has loved them, giving Mercy back out as was recieved

i have been trying to tell everysingle person dude like so many times but they just don't understand and it's frustrating, that is the point of the commandments to realise that we can't follow it and we need GOD to change our sinful ways

 

[Josh321]

this all reminds me of when isaiah knew the truth had had to deliver the truth to the people but they will never understand and he ask the lord how long will this go on for.. same thing happening here

5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts.
6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
[h=3]Isaiah 6:5-11[/h]

[h=3]Isaiah 6:5-11[/h]New International Version (NIV)

5 “Woe to me!” I cried. “I am ruined! For I am a man of unclean lips, and I live among a people of unclean lips, and my eyes have seen the King, the Lord Almighty.”
6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me with a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with tongs from the altar.7 With it he touched my mouth and said, “See, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away and your sin atoned for.”
8 Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, “Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?”
And I said, “Here am I. Send me!”
9 He said, “Go and tell this people:
“‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding;
be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused;
make their ears dull
and close their eyes.[a]
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,
understand with their hearts,
and turn and be healed.”

11 Then I said, “For how long, Lord?”
And he answered:
“Until the cities lie ruined
and without inhabitant,
until the houses are left deserted
and the fields ruined and ravaged,

 

[Josh321]

when the truth was spoken to the people they got more and more blind never to come to terms of what it means

 

[texascowgirl]

You're equivocating. If two people have mutually exclusive beliefs about their own gods (for instance, one's god promises eternal life in heaven and another promises re-incarnation back to Earth), then they are clearly worshiping different gods.

But I'm curious about your certainty in "only one god". Do you have evidence of that? ?

Yes, 1Cor12:6 There are different kinds ofworking, but in all of them and in everyone it isthe same God at work.We are all thework of his hands.
1Tim2:5 There is ONE GOD.

 

[posthuman]

THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH

Mattithyah 5:19, "Whosoever, therefore, will break one of the least of these Laws, and will teach men so, hhe will be called the least in the Kingdom of Yahweh; but whosoever will do and teach them, the same will be called great in the Kingdom of Yahweh."

the one who has broken the least of these Laws, and teaches men to do likewise, though he be the least in the Kingdom, still he is in the Kingdom, if by faith, he has believed in His Name.

here is the difference between obedience and Judaizing. if works after the flesh are necessary for salvation, the Cross is of none effect, but if your faith bears no fruit, then either it is no faith at all, or though you may be saved from death, it is "as though by fire."

in Acts 15 we read that the apostles saw fit "not to burden the gentiles" with the Torah, not to "tempt God" by placing a "yoke" that neither their fathers nor they could bear on the believers who had been justified by God through the gift of the Holy Spirit. we as humans are very quick to measure one another with our own measurements, forgetting who it is that holds the scales of life and death.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

this verse alone should make people run to God even further the people trying to earn salvation by works i don't truly believe people understand this word grace or what it really means, it means he doesn't HAVE TO DO IT which means no matter how much Good deeds if you give to the poor or whatever it is something God willingly does for us, i've heard alot of testimonies where God just grab people out of a group and just pour the holy spirit on them changing them in an instant, i've heard a testimony about a pastor i believe, said he was in a gang saw people head got blown off infront of him in drug houses and he was a slave to the world and didn't realise it but God had something different planned for him, i can't exactly remember but something happen that draw him closer to God then he accepted God, that is the grace of God right there, this man never live a christian life like most people but yet God still choose to call him and bring him into his family that is the grace of God right there and if God doesn't call you no one can receive it the scripture said so

Very well spoken Josh. I see someone here who is spiritually grounded. Thanks for sharing! Who did God use for his glory? His strength is made known in our weakness. Moses, who had a fear of speaking, made into a great leader. Paul, who hated Christianity and the church, taken by God and used in a mighty way. God didn't choose them because they were worthy. He chose sinners and made them vessels for his glory. Praise God for his grace and mercy to the least, to US.

 

[Grace-Like-Rain]

But I'm curious about your certainty in "only one god". Do you have evidence of that? You could cite the bible, but an atheist like myself or a believer in a different bible that proposes multiple gods wouldn't care what your particular favored holy book has to say on the subject.

Starcrash, I'm fascinated with your very presence on this forum. For a self-proclaimed atheist, you seem either to be wanting desperately to be convinced, or extraordinarily concerned for those of us who have faith in God. If you are concerned for believers, how so? What harm is there to us in our belief, either to ourselves or to you? Is it convincing that you want?

For those who are blind to Christ (or to God, as you mention above), there is nothing on earth that will convince you. I've never seen an atheist converted through "proof". Scientific evidence actually abounds, but no atheist would accept it or be changed by it. Change will only come from the Lord working in your heart. If you are seeking - if you want convincing - then perhaps you are on your way. If you are simply wanting to sow discord, there's not really much point in indulging you.

I'd like to encourage you to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It's an easy read, but full of "evidence" that might appeal to you, if you are actually seeking. Lewis was an atheist himself before God caused him to see. The book lays down a clear case for there being a "One Being" in authority over the universe, and Lewis does this without relying on the Bible (which no atheist would accept anyway) but in other ways.

 

[Josh321]

Starcrash, I'm fascinated with your very presence on this forum. For a self-proclaimed atheist, you seem either to be wanting desperately to be convinced, or extraordinarily concerned for those of us who have faith in God. If you are concerned for believers, how so? What harm is there to us in our belief, either to ourselves or to you? Is it convincing that you want?

For those who are blind to Christ (or to God, as you mention above), there is nothing on earth that will convince you. I've never seen an atheist converted through "proof". Scientific evidence actually abounds, but no atheist would accept it or be changed by it. Change will only come from the Lord working in your heart. If you are seeking - if you want convincing - then perhaps you are on your way. If you are simply wanting to sow discord, there's not really much point in indulging you.

I'd like to encourage you to read Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis. It's an easy read, but full of "evidence" that might appeal to you, if you are actually seeking. Lewis was an atheist himself before God caused him to see. The book lays down a clear case for there being a "One Being" in authority over the universe, and Lewis does this without relying on the Bible (which no atheist would accept anyway) but in other ways.

i love sharing this testimony of this former atheist he himself said that despite what he is saying the other atheist won't accept it and he also said he was ignorant and just wouldn't listen [video=youtube;5XBbJl_49B4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XBbJl_49B4[/video] but as you stated before they will never know the truth actually no one well never know the truth, unless it's by faith, faith to believe in something greater than us, faith in something we can't see this is why many will be lost because they believe seeing is believing too bad they really gonna be seeing.. in the tribulation unfortunately, everyone that becomes enlighten by God was once blind, i had no clue all of this was real but... the truth hit me so hard when God revealed himself to me, when i came to realisation that i was just living my life without christ and had no idea that without christ life is meaninless, like you just be existing waiting to die eternal.. it's a scary thought but by the grace of God he chose to free a sinner like me from the bondage of sin.. only by his grace no way i could've just decide one day " yea i'm gonna just start living a good life and be a good christian boy" nope God changed my life and i will never cease to testify that whoever has an ear to hear let them hear and i hope the same thing happens to them aswell

 

[Josh321]

atheist don't realise that it is their conscience leading them to sites like these and they don't know why, the soul knows what the body truly desires under most gospel songs on youtube i always see an atheist there commenting in the comments they are saying bad things but the thing is they are always there, they always led to be among situations like this and have no idea why i hope it is a calling from God i truly do