Attack of the seventh day adventists

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Let me ask you to answer(without looking)? Who is the new Testament for?

See? You have no verses showing that you have any part in it. Of course that is assuming you have no part in Judaism nor claim to have no part of Israel.

All who believe receive the circumcision of the heart, which is the seal of being a member of the new covenant. The new covenant was made with 11 men. All others enter into that covenant through faith.

John 17:19 For them [the disciples] I sanctify myself, that they too may be truly sanctified. 20 "My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.​

 

[Galatians2-20]

Modern believers are not "under law" because the cross has given us access to the only one who has or who ever will have the ability to fulfill the law, the indwelling Christ. The law was given to reflect the biblical standard which is nothing short of God's own divine character which man can not nor ever could hope to fulfill through human effort. Scripture states that man's own righteousnesss (best efforts) are as dirty rags to God. God's solution to the problem: He has given us His Spirit, that same Spirit which empowered Christ to live a life pleasing unto the the Father, the same Spirit which gave Him power over death and the grave. We too now have possession of all that is need to fulfill the biblical standard, that is, if we set aside all sense of self and allow the Holy Spirit to manifest Christ in us and through us.

Not once did God ever remove the standard. Rather, He has given us the only means to fulfill it. He has given us Himself. No longer need we strive to be something we can live up to. Now we can simply rest in perfect peace knowing that He has given us all things to live a life please unto Him, that is, if we position ourselves to believe it through faith.

To sum things up: the indwelling Christ is the New Testament equivalent of the Sabbath. The only thing a new Testament believer is called to do is to abide (rest) in Him thus allowing Him to work His divine will in us and through us.

I made a typo in the above post which is probably the source of any confusion. The following line should read:

"Not once did God ever remove the standard. Rather, He has given us the only means to fulfill it. He has given us Himself. No longer need we strive to be something we can not live up to. Now we can simply rest in perfect peace knowing that He has given us all things to live a life please unto Him, that is, if we position ourselves to believe it through faith."

 

[Galatians2-20]

Hmmm galatians2-20.
gosh your words sound pretty. hard to critique them, but alas truth and scripture define us all.

You kinda' had me until the end..."To sum things up: the indwelling Christ is the New Testament equivalent of the Sabbath. The only thing a new Testament believer is called to do is to abide (rest) in Him thus allowing Him to work His divine will in us and through us."

It amazes me how little people place on the new testament, yet mention it as if they hold some strong understanding.

Let me ask you to answer(without looking)? Who is the new Testament for?

See? You have no verses showing that you have any part in it. Of course that is assuming you have no part in Judaism nor claim to have no part of Israel.

now let us actually think about the New Covenant/Testament. what is it that separates the old from the new? "modern day"
Christians/believers, (as u mentioned), are not under the law.

If you pay closer attention to the subject, that is exactly what believers are still under. He has now placed the same laws which were written on the tables of stone upon the tables of our heart. And he used the Holy Spirit to write them upon our heart.

Why? Because the previous writing upon stone by the finger of God was infereior to that which the Holy Spirit wrote upon our hearts. It is literally engraved into our heart.

Considering the Apostle Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament to the Gentiles to whom he was called to minister to, it's a pretty safe assumption that he is writing to the Gentile church which, if like me you are a Gentile, then that would include us.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Don't get me wrong, I believe that faith in Christ involves not only believing in Christ as our resurrected Savior but also obedience to all that He taught. However, I also believe that without the indwelling Holy Spirit manifesting God's nature in us and through us, it is impossible through human effort to please God. In the Old Testament, scripture states all of the sacrifices and ceremonies could not forgive man of His unrighteousness rather, they pointed toward the own who could and eventually would, Jesus Christ. If human effort was not good enough to please God then, what makes us think it's good enough to please God now?

The biblical standard is nothing less than the character of God Himself. The only means in which man can live up to that standard is to actually possess the character of God for him or herself. That is why God has given us His Spirit and the reason why Christ refers to the Holy Spirit as our "Comforter" and our "Helper" because it is only through His Spirit that we can walk in a manner pleasing unto Him.

God is love and love fulfills the law. The first characteristic of the indwelling Holy Spirit is such love. What's so hard to understand?

 

[KAdamW]

Considering the Apostle Paul wrote the majority of the New Testament to the Gentiles to whom he was called to minister to, it's a pretty safe assumption that he is writing to the Gentile church which, if like me you are a Gentile, then that would include us.

Instead of making a "pretty safe assumption", how about we be sure by allowing scripture to answer?

Heb. 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Instead of making a "pretty safe assumption", how about we be sure by allowing scripture to answer?

Heb. 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

What is your point? That no Gentile should read the bible because it is not intended for them? Why not make yourself clear rather than trying to make seems as if you're more in tune with scripture than everyone else.

Through faith we are the sons and daughters of Abraham. It is our faith in Christ which grafted us into the salvation that God so loving extended to Israel.

Believe me, I could list a ton of scripture to prove my position however, some of us actually have a life outside of this message forum. Nor do I desire to pridefully prove how familiar I am with scripture.

 

[KAdamW]

I just find it curious that you did not answer with a scripturally sound reply, but instead based it on a "pretty safe assumption" that is completely opposite of what the Bible states. After I point this out you then conveniently pull the grafted into Abraham through faith comment.

My point is that the Sabbath was written on tables of stone which is the old covenant, and the new covenant is those same exact laws written upon our very hearts. If you claim to share the new covenant with Israel and Judah through faith then how do you justify to purposely not keep 1 of the 10 commandments that you surely believe was written upon your heart by the Holy Spirit? I think that is a very valid question to any believer.

I so often see people try to separate themselves from Israel when it is convenient, and claim them when it's convenient. Either you are of one body with all believers and grafted into their pre-existing tree or your not. Notice that Abraham's seed does not join the church, Israel does not get grafted into the Gentiles tree, Israel does not partake in our promises, Israel is not co-heirs with our covenant, etc...

Time after time Paul, (who you pointed out was apostle to the Gentiles), tells us we join them and we are one body. Hence you are Abraham's seed, you are an Israelite, and you are a Jew.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

I just find it curious that you did not answer with a scripturally sound reply, but instead based it on a "pretty safe assumption" that is completely opposite of what the Bible states. After I point this out you then conveniently pull the grafted into Abraham through faith comment.

My point is that the Sabbath was written on tables of stone which is the old covenant, and the new covenant is those same exact laws written upon our very hearts. If you claim to share the new covenant with Israel and Judah through faith then how do you justify to purposely not keep 1 of the 10 commandments that you surely believe was written upon your heart by the Holy Spirit? I think that is a very valid question to any believer.

I so often see people try to separate themselves from Israel when it is convenient, and claim them when it's convenient. Either you are of one body with all believers and grafted into their pre-existing tree or your not. Notice that Abraham's seed does not join the church, Israel does not get grafted into the Gentiles tree, Israel does not partake in our promises, Israel is not co-heirs with our covenant, etc...

Time after time Paul, (who you pointed out was apostle to the Gentiles), tells us we join them and we are one body. Hence you are Abraham's seed, you are an Israelite, and you are a Jew.

New covenant for Israel, new laws for Israel. The letter of the law isn't written on our hearts; the spirit is. The spirit of the law is love and faith. He who does these things is well pleasing to GOD, and will not be ashamed. There is no law against love; not even the 4th commandment.

 

[KAdamW]

New covenant for Israel, new laws for Israel. The letter of the law isn't written on our hearts; the spirit is. The spirit of the law is love and faith. He who does these things is well pleasing to GOD, and will not be ashamed. There is no law against love; not even the 4th commandment.

First of all it does not say new laws for the new covenant. It changes two things; where it was written and how. Tables of stone vs tables of our heart. Finger of God vs Holy Spirit. To add some thing about new laws just is not there. There is no indication of some new laws, the author would have been very misleading to get us thinking about the laws written on stone and telling us the new location and method but fail to indicate about a new set of laws. It plainly tells us what laws it is referring to, those which were written on stone.

And I think you have the wrong idea about the spirit and the letter of the law. The letter of the law is the physical act, such as physically committing adultery. The spirit of the law is thinking lustfully about the act of adultery. The spirit of the law is actually stricter than the letter. Even never having physically committed the sin, the mere thought of desiring to commit the sin is forbidden.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

First of all it does not say new laws for the new covenant. It changes two things; where it was written and how. Tables of stone vs tables of our heart. Finger of God vs Holy Spirit. To add some thing about new laws just is not there. There is no indication of some new laws, the author would have been very misleading to get us thinking about the laws written on stone and telling us the new location and method but fail to indicate about a new set of laws. It plainly tells us what laws it is referring to, those which were written on stone.

And I think you have the wrong idea about the spirit and the letter of the law. The letter of the law is the physical act, such as physically committing adultery. The spirit of the law is thinking lustfully about the act of adultery. The spirit of the law is actually stricter than the letter. Even never having physically committed the sin, the mere thought of desiring to commit the sin is forbidden.

That's just not true.

For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:12

A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another—just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. John 13:34​

 

[KAdamW]

That's just not true.

For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. Hebrews 7:12

A new commandment I give to you: that you love one another—just as I have loved you, that you also love one another. John 13:34​

Beg to differ...

2John 1:5 And now I beseech thee, lady, NOT AS THOUGH I WROTE A NEW COMMANDMENT unto thee, BUT THAT WHICH YE HAD FROM THE BEGINNING, that we love one another.
6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, AS YE HAVE HEARD FROM THE BEGINNING, ye should walk in it.
7 Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which YE HAD FROM THE BEGINNING. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning.


Mat. 22:36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[KAdamW]

As to your reference to Hebrews 7 you took that out of context, it is referencing the Levitical priest hood and laws. I agree that the ceremonial Levitical laws were fulfilled. No longer to we need to go thru the earthly priest now that the true high priest has come, no longer do we need to sacrifice lambs now that the true lamb of God has been sacrificed, no longer do we judge people, now that the true judge has come....

 

[Hizikyah]

Mattithyah 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love Yahweh your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might (Deut 6:5). This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself (Lev 19:18). On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

On these 2 Laws/Commandments "hang all the Law" not do away with or destroy, HANG, meaning you break any of them you have broken one of these 2.

Anothr insight to it not beoing only 10:

Revelation 22:15, "For outside are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and worshipers of gods and
everyone who professes to love, yet practices breaking the Law."

"dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers" are not against the 10 Commandments, yet people will be reject for breaking these, for the mouth of Yahshua has spoken it.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As to your reference to Hebrews 7 you took that out of context, it is referencing the Levitical priest hood and laws. I agree that the ceremonial Levitical laws were fulfilled. No longer to we need to go thru the earthly priest now that the true high priest has come, no longer do we need to sacrifice lambs now that the true lamb of God has been sacrificed, no longer do we judge people, now that the true judge has come....

The people were placed under the law of Moses (10 commandments included) by the Levitical priesthood. The changing of the priesthood required a changing of the law. A new priesthood requires new law.

If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Hebrews 7:11-12​

 

[zone]

Instead of making a "pretty safe assumption", how about we be sure by allowing scripture to answer?

Heb. 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

how about this:

per the eastern customs.....a son of nobility did not spend time learning from his father.
he was taught at school, to which he was delivered by a servant pedagogue.
the pedagogue took responsibility for all the upbringing, all the moral teaching; all the discipline.

when the son became a MAN (a complete man)....he now spent his time with his FATHER, able to relate to and love his father, in a relationship of respect and honor.

the pedagogue was the LAW.

when the SON became a man he was no longer under THE CONTROL of the harsh slave-tutor.

he now had his father's WISDOM in his own heart - as WISDOM learned from hard lessons learned about the father's implacable rules....rules that could demand and command but had no power to change the boy's HEART.

it's a heart change.

not more LAW

 

[KAdamW]

The people were placed under the law of Moses (10 commandments included) by the Levitical priesthood. The changing of the priesthood required a changing of the law. A new priesthood requires new law.

Like I already said, you are taking it out of context, the CEREMONIAL laws were fulfilled. I already gave examples of why. The Moral and Civil laws were not.

Whether found in leviticus or not you know what laws are ceremonial, you obviously are well versed in scripture so let's not play like this is our first rodeo. Christ fulfilled the need to sacrifice lambs, he did not fulfill or do away with consorting with witches or witchcraft(civil laws). Nor did he fulfill do not commit adultery(moral laws).

There is evidence of all three of these types of laws before Sinai or Israelite. They have been around from the beginning.

 

[KAdamW]

how about this:

per the eastern customs.....a son of nobility did not spend time learning from his father.
he was taught at school, to which he was delivered by a servant pedagogue.
the pedagogue took responsibility for all the upbringing, all the moral teaching; all the discipline.

when the son became a MAN (a complete man)....he now spent his time with his FATHER, able to relate to and love his father, in a relationship of respect and honor.

the pedagogue was the LAW.

when the SON became a man he was no longer under THE CONTROL of the harsh slave-tutor.

he now had his father's WISDOM in his own heart - as WISDOM learned from hard lessons learned about the father's implacable rules....rules that could demand and command but had no power to change the boy's HEART.

it's a heart change.

not more LAW

Interesting, knowledge of customs oftentimes help further understand context. Please other than writing in caps can you explain for me how you find this pertinent?

Not that I place a whole lot of importance to extra-Biblical info short of context, but I am curious on how you see this fitting into the subject. Thanks.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Like I already said, you are taking it out of context, the CEREMONIAL laws were fulfilled. I already gave examples of why. The Moral and Civil laws were not.

That's your opinion, which really doesn't jive with the bulk of Paul's writings. Basically, it's wishful thinking for the sake of justifying unbelief.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Whether found in leviticus or not you know what laws are ceremonial, you obviously are well versed in scripture so let's not play like this is our first rodeo. Christ fulfilled the need to sacrifice lambs, he did not fulfill or do away with consorting with witches or witchcraft(civil laws). Nor did he fulfill do not commit adultery(moral laws).

There is evidence of all three of these types of laws before Sinai or Israelite. They have been around from the beginning.

You are making these distinctions to your detriment and hurt. Christ fulfilled ALL of the law. As there is no need for sacrifices, so there is no need for a body of law to tell us what not to do. We know what to do: believe and love. There is nothing else to the moral law, as you call it. Faith and love cover everything.

 

[KAdamW]

That's your opinion, which really doesn't jive with the bulk of Paul's writings. Basically, it's wishful thinking for the sake of justifying unbelief.

Please explain. i have tried to do so with you if you need more clarification just tell me where and i will try my best.