LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[homwardbound]

But a caterpillar doesn't instantly become a butterfly. If something detrimental happens during the process of transformation, no butterfly.

Yet still saved and in Heaven with Father, while those that do transform to that butterfly, are here to help and show the Love of God to all unconditionally to all as God did the same
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

We thus have the message of:
2 Corinthians 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
2 Corinthians 5:19 to wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

2 Corinthians 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.
Colossians 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

If you believe the above verses that you are reconciled then you will be reconciled to God and alive to God, instant Metamorphosis, better than instant oatmeal, this God's meal to us all that believe.

 

[homwardbound]

I would refer you to...

2Pet. 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Rom. 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

So this is talking to those that were on the verge of belief and heard the truth from God by the Holy Ghost of God, and are now at that decision to Blasphemy the Holy Ghost and not believe in God through Son Christ. Or finally deny self and believe God in god's miraculous salvation provided through the cross of Christ. All will know and either come to belief and deny self or not consciously. Therefore when the day of reckoning comes there will be no excuse for anyone to blame anyone, for anyone's action and or reaction to the truth of God does just love you, and is shown by God through Son.
Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Romans 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

 

[homwardbound]

yep. and thus he does not have the benefits and rewards of the butterfly. But he is still a new creature.

In spiritual terms. A person not born again is not even a catapiller. He is DEAD!

2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:

So we all after first born here in the flesh are dead and in need of life, which God gives freely to all the believe God, and this belief is done through Son at the cross, first death, which is our death and then resurrection which is our resurrection in God through Son here and now as well as in our physical death. God is Honorable and does not lie.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

HE did do this through his Son did God not?

 

[homwardbound]

There are several references in Scripture to people who were once saved and fell from that salvation.

Just one of many is found in 2 Pet. 2:1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

You see that they had once been 'bought', ransomed, purchased. And yet through heresy and denial of the Truth of the Covenant, they bring Perdition upon themselves. The only thing required to lose Covenant Salvation is to deny the Covenant and be unfaithful to it.

Covenant involves two, not one. We stand by Faith. And when that Faith is no longer there, we no longer stand.

Salvation is conditional. The condition is faithfulness to the covenant even as Christ was faithful to the covenant.

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. - Heb. 3:6

Ephesians 2:8-9
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.

Works of the flesh are not of Faith in God's finished work at the cross of Son. It is a fine line at crossing over the picket line of flesh stopping, trying to stop Spirit from entering in God's rest.
Let God be truth and every man a liar

 

[homwardbound]

Again, Paul writes to Christians in Jerusalem in the Letter to the Hebrews, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" -- Heb. 3:12-14

Paul applies the lessons learned of the Jews loosing their Salvation to all Christians as well, and entreats them never to harden their hearts against God as the children of Israel had done in the Wilderness, nor to lose Faith and be deceived through sin. For Salvation is conditioned upon our holding fast to the Confidence in Christ firmly to the End.

Salvation is conditional. It is conditioned upon Faith. It is conditioned upon Faithfulness.

There is no such thing as unconditional salvation or unconditional love. For all things are conditional based upon the conditions of our choices and our will to respond and receive the truth and salvation of Christ. As it is at the beginning of the salvific walk so it is till the end. A personal decision.

An evil heart of unbelief

Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

Are you listening praying so!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Lord for your sovereignty

 

[homwardbound]

This does NOT prove your point. All it proves is that there were people in the church tasting Gods love and blessings by being in the church and around those who are truly saved.

He did not say fear falling from belief to unbelief. Not everyone in any church is saved.



Again, Wrong.

it is conditioned on faith alone. Saying it is conditioned on faithfullness puts us under law. And ignored the reason hebrews was written/ That we are not under law. The sacrifice of the priest will NOT restor us to god when we fall away. Jesus died ONCE to save us forever.



lol. No such thing as unconditional love huh? You speak as a man, who can not know unconditional love. Thus you can not Know God and hus pure unconditional love. This is what Grace us.

Learn to find Christ and his unconditional love, and stop thinking like a man, who can not know this without first experiencing the love of Christ. He teaches US to love unconditionally. He would not tell us to do what he refuses to do.

Thanks EG
1 John 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.
1 John 2:2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
1 John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

 

[homwardbound]

Again, Paul writes to Timothy (a Christian and saved), saying, "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" -- 2 Tim. 2:12

So we see how many 'ifs' Scripture using in explaining the conditions of Salvation. NT Salvation is wholly conditional upon faith and faithfulness because Convenant involves two, not one.

I highlighted if we deny him and we are not doing that, it is not conditional, the only thing Christ never died for was Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost that Christ sent to tell truth in us and through us that God simply just loves us that he died for us to redeem us to mew life in Father through him Son.
Now I believe and do not deny the Christ do you? for by one sacrifice through his Body his death he made the believers whole if we believe.
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Do you believe God did this for you, before you were ever born here on earth through Son?

 

[1disciple]

So..basically..salvation is conditional on faith and faithfulness. And it can be lost or maintained through faithfulness of unfaithfulness to the Covenant.

John relates as much in Revelation 17:14 writing "καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτοῦ κλητοὶ καὶ ἐκλεκτοὶ καὶ πιστοί".

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So..basically..salvation is conditional on faith and faithfulness. And it can be lost or maintained through faithfulness of unfaithfulness to the Covenant.

John relates as much in Revelation 17:14 writing "καὶ οἱ μετ’ αὐτοῦ κλητοὶ καὶ ἐκλεκτοὶ καὶ πιστοί".

Wrong

You either have faith, or you do not

Those who have faith will never waver in faith to the point of unbelief. Thats true faith. And that will never fail.

 

[1disciple]

Again, Paul writes of the salvation that is based upon continual and enduring Faith in writing to the Roman Christians, saying,

αλλα τι λεγει εγγυς σου το ρημα εστιν εν τω στοματι σου και εν τη καρδια σου τουτ εστιν το ρημα της πιστεως ο κηρυσσομεν οτι εαν ομολογησης εν τω στοματι σου κυριον ιησουν και πιστευσης εν τη καρδια σου οτι ο θεος αυτον ηγειρεν εκ νεκρων σωθηση καρδια γαρ πιστευεται εις δικαιοσυνην στοματι δε ομολογειται εις σωτηριαν λεγει γαρ η γραφη πας ο πιστευων επ αυτω ου καταισχυνθησεται --Romans 10:8-11

However, what does [the Scripture] say? "The Utterance is near you; in your Mouth and in your Heart": this is the Utterance of the Faith that we are Preaching--that if you kept confessing the Lord Jesus with your Mouth and kept believing in your Heart that the Deity raised Him from the Dead, you will be saved. For the Heart keeps believing leading to Justification, and confession keeps being made leading to Salvation. For the Scripture states that all who are believing upon Him shall not be put to Shame.

So you see how Paul entreats to the Christians who had once believed in and confessed Christ to keep believing and confessing, for this would result in their Justification and Salvation. This is a lifelong path and stairway to Heaven by Faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, Paul writes of the salvation that is based upon continual and enduring Faith in writing to the Roman Christians, saying,



So you see how Paul entreats to the Christians who had once believed in and confessed Christ to keep believing and confessing, for this would result in their Justification and Salvation. This is a lifelong path and stairway to Heaven by Faith in Jesus Christ.

Wrong again.,

Paul teaches we have been (past tense) justfied.

Why are you trying to work for it. when you can have it right now?

And why do you make paul contradict himself?

 

[konroh]

1 Tim 1:18This command I entrust to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophecies previously made concerning you, that by them you fight the good fight, 19keeping faith and a good conscience, which some have rejected and suffered shipwreck in regard to their faith. 20Among these are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, so that they will be taught not to blaspheme.

What does it mean to be shipwrecked in regard to their faith? Many people will say that Hymenaeus and Alexander were never initially saved, their faith must have been spurious, or a mere profession, but not real. In that case, why didn't Paul say they were shipwrecked in regard to their lack of faith? A shipwreck is when the ship has been moving well and then disaster strikes, it was a real ship, not a fake ship.

Others will say that Hymenaeus (try to spell that as a kid) and Alexander had real faith, but then they suffered shipwreck and then lost their faith, thus losing their salvation, which is why they were delivered over to Satan. If this is true, then Paul is saying that it's possible that Timothy, his son (spiritually), could be guilty of not keeping his faith and a good conscience and suffer shipwreck in his faith. If he did this, then he would cease to be Paul's son (spiritually) and risk being handed over to Satan. If this is true, then the prophecies previously made about Timothy would become false, so this wouldn't really be a real threat to Timothy, so why would Paul use them as examples?

Isn't it natural to see that Hymenaeus and Alexander had real faith, and the warning to Timothy was real too? What does this mean for salvation? It appears that each one of us needs to keep faith and a good conscience or we too can suffer shipwreck. Does this mean we will lose our salvation or that we were never really saved? No, our salvation is grounded in God who has chosen us, but we can suffer shipwreck, this doesn't mean we will lose our salvation, but it does mean there will be consequences, physical punishment, judgment, chastening.

Paul's warning to Timothy was real, and so was the faith of Hymenaeus and Alexander.

 

[1disciple]

Again, Paul talks about the Life and Salvation being conditioned upon walking according to the Spirit and not according to the Flesh. For he writes to the Christians in Rome, saying,

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to keep living after the flesh. For if you keep living after the Flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall live. For as many as keep being led by the Spirit of God, they are the Sons of God. -- Rom. 8:13-14

And so to be a Son of God and to have Life implies a continual walk according to the Spirit. Paul flatly tells the Christians at Rome that if they keep living according to the Flesh, they will die. This is not refering to physical death, but spiritual and second death. These are not unsaved people, but the people of the Church of Rome.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, Paul talks about the Life and Salvation being conditioned upon walking according to the Spirit and not according to the Flesh. For he writes to the Christians in Rome, saying,



And so to be a Son of God and to have Life implies a continual walk according to the Spirit. Paul flatly tells the Christians at Rome that if they keep living according to the Flesh, they will die. This is not refering to physical death, but spiritual and second death. These are not unsaved people, but the people of the Church of Rome.

Interpretation. we are under law, not under grace!

Have fun trying to earn your gift. Make sure you tell God all those mighty works you did in his name/

Just don;t get mad when he tells you to depart for HE NEVER KNEW YOU

 

[1disciple]

Again, in the Epistle to the Church at Ephesus, Paul entreats the saved through Grace by Faith Christians to not take part in the practices of those who suffer the wrath of God lest they sever themselves from the Kingdom of God and their salvation by sin.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them. -- Eph. 5:3-7

 

[1disciple]

Among the Christians at Galatia, there were some who, once believing and accepting the salvation in Christ by Grace through Faith, had begun to err from the Faith in trying to be justified by keeping the Law to the extent that they had actually been severed from Christ and Grace. They had fallen from any benefit of salvation that Christ might have given them because they were no longer being Faithful to the Covenant of Grace in Christ.

Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. -- Galatians 5:1-6

 

[konroh]

And so to be a Son of God and to have Life implies a continual walk according to the Spirit. Paul flatly tells the Christians at Rome that if they keep living according to the Flesh, they will die. This is not refering to physical death, but spiritual and second death. These are not unsaved people, but the people of the Church of Rome.

This is exactly where we disagree. After 7 chapters outlining the justification salvation we have in Christ through faith, Paul then explains sanctification-salvation, being saved from the power of sin. To not be delivered from the power of sin is spiritual death, not applying the spiritual justification-salvation you have experienced. Obviously a Christian can walk according to the flesh, and this would be death for him, not loss of eternal salvation, but not being saved-delivered from the power of sin, an everyday process that requires walking according to the Spirit.

Paul is talking to justified Christians exhorting them to walk worthy of their calling, to be sanctified. If they don't, they will experience spiritual deadness. This is not eternal death, but living a life that reaps separation from God in the present. That's why he exhorts them to put to death the deeds of the flesh and reap spiritual life, fellowship with the Abba-Father, live out who you are, a child of God and a co-heir with Christ.

 

[clayservant]

Salvation cannot be lost. Since salvation is of the Lord. When a person gets saved, that person is placed into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27). And he is sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30). Christians are bought with a price. God purchased them with His own blood (Acts 20:28). So again, salvation cannot be lost in the Church Age (Dispensation of Grace).

I agree 100% with this^^^

 

[1disciple]

Again, Christ speaks and warns of the possibility of losing Salvation in parables, saying,

Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. -- Matt. 13:3-9

 

[clayservant]

it is funny how some people preach that you cannot save yourself or you cannot make yourself good enough for salvation, it is all by the cross and what christ did it is not what WE do that we receive salvation. BUT they turn around and say you can lose your salvation by SOMETHING YOU DO, now which is it folks? either salvation is only by Jesus blood and what he did on the cross or we can EARN our salvation? you cannot have it both ways.