LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[thecreationtutor]

[SUP]Hebrews 9
12 [/SUP]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

I guess it's not eternal redemtion

 

[directline2iam]

Could Paul have walked away, after being born Again from God? Yes he could, but would that make God's truth void? By Faith you are saved and not of works lest you might boast.
Remain steadfast in the Faith that God has given you. not any of our own makings. Please be careful and go to God for reception of truth in God. For only God can show us truth as truth is.
Ask God for God's Mercy through Son and receive truth from God, and be set free in God only through Son can this be done. It goes past belief into receive the free gift from God, not just "I" believe, past that, it is in the reception from God that one is born again from God, freely given to us from God. It does start out with I believe God, but flesh does continuously try to keep in the way and create it's own righteousness, and make it look as if it is God's.
Just food for thought to process through and eat, fro God to discern in you, me and all that believe, waiting for the reception, if we have not yet received.

Could Paul have walked away, after being born Again from God? Yes he could, BUT, no, you posed the question and you answered it, there is no BUT. By Faith you are saved. Yes, we are saved BY faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word. Can we stop hearing the Word? Yes we can. What happens when by our own FREE WILL we stop hearing the Word? We lose our faith. And what does faith accomplish? Salvation. What is it called? Saving Faith. Can I lose saving faith? Yes.

Apparently you didn't read the scripture quotations I posted earlier about the seeds (THE SAVING FAITH) that get choked out along our earthly walk by not keeping God's Word number uno in our lives. We hear the Word, we receive faith, saving faith, (salvation) and because of our problems in life, like worrying about how much money we can make, which turns money into our god, and the like sins, we lose site of this saving faith and become lost again. I've seen it in so many people who had the faith and lost it's power. They looked at life and said the God of the Bible is not my god. No loving God could do the things He did. They say my God is cruel, not loving. These people gave up that little bit of understanding (Faith) and decided their understanding is better.

Don't kid yourself, you and I can lose our salvation. Don't ever get such a big head to think you are invincible, pride commeth before a big fall.

 

[vic1980]

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

What trully is intersting about this subject ,i have notice by reading the scripture how God can change a man heart even put his spirit in that man and still man is capable to lost it all. A fine example King Saul, God change his heart to do his will ,even gave him the holyspirit and made him speak as a prophet.When saul continue to disobay the Lord, God Almighty decided to take away his holyspirit from him. and saul fell from grace he lost it all, even after God himself ,change that man from the inside out ,saul still manage to lost it all.

that is why it is important to hear His instruction and be wise and not disregard it.

in the book of Galatians,1 Corinthians & Revelation , we are gives great example of who will not enter into the kingdom of God.

God bless and thank you all for your insight on this particula question

 

[overcomer2]

I believe it is possible to lose your salvation. It is called being born again. If you are born you can live or die. Judas was called and chosen however, he lost his salvation. King Saul also lost his place in God. Fear God, that fear will keep you so that you do not fall away. It is possible to fall away.
overcomer2

 

[homwardbound]

No I'm saying that a fetus can die in the womb and be stillborn. We are as fetuses in the womb of Jerusalem. We have not yet been fully born into our new life. Thus the warnings from Jesus and the apostles to fear and persevere lest we lose what we have.

So right here and now you do not reckon yourself dead to sin
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[homwardbound]

That's just a rationalization that I don't find supported in scripture. All who believe and confess Christ are born again.

Those are in metamorphosis as a Caterpillar is when it spins a cocoon and waits for the born again butterfly to take effect.
Now when this happens that Caterpillar is a butterfly and will never be a worm again.
You are Born again, if one believes and stays with it, unto the full growth in maturity. Once Maturity happens the Cocoon breaks and you see the born again person you are, there is no turning back.
That is what I am saying and what is in being born again from God. The day we first believe we are sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise absolutely, but yet have come to the full understanding of what God has done

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So while in the process in Metamorphosis, there are many things that happen here to destroy that cocoon, where one is in the process of being born again.
Just like an apple on the tree branch, has to grow to maturity, and while growing their are parasites around to stop its growth, just as on this earth with the tares amongst the wheat.
Now if one does truly believe, it is god that knows who these are and are not. So who is it then if God has received me, you and or anyone else, that is able to get us to stand
Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

1 Corinthians 2:5 that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God

 

[homwardbound]

i never seen a person loose some thing on purpose, in my opinion i think one can throw away their salvation, but not loose it.

Thanks Don, because if we are God's, God is Faithful and will show us truth and we will see from God truth that sets us free through our mistakes. We grow unto God in maturity from God showing us truth over error, giving God all the credit for our growth in trusting God

 

[homwardbound]

[SUP]Hebrews 9
12 [/SUP]Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

I guess it's not eternal redemtion

Only if you believe this to be true, then God shows you and once you see this as truth you see the new you born again. by god from God a free gift to us all that believe in God, if we will continue to stay steadfast in the Faith of God through the Son Chrsit our propitiation for all sin. For by him he did this for us
Colossians 1:22 in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23[/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

 

[homwardbound]

Could Paul have walked away, after being born Again from God? Yes he could, BUT, no, you posed the question and you answered it, there is no BUT. By Faith you are saved. Yes, we are saved BY faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word. Can we stop hearing the Word? Yes we can. What happens when by our own FREE WILL we stop hearing the Word? We lose our faith. And what does faith accomplish? Salvation. What is it called? Saving Faith. Can I lose saving faith? Yes.

Apparently you didn't read the scripture quotations I posted earlier about the seeds (THE SAVING FAITH) that get choked out along our earthly walk by not keeping God's Word number uno in our lives. We hear the Word, we receive faith, saving faith, (salvation) and because of our problems in life, like worrying about how much money we can make, which turns money into our god, and the like sins, we lose site of this saving faith and become lost again. I've seen it in so many people who had the faith and lost it's power. They looked at life and said the God of the Bible is not my god. No loving God could do the things He did. They say my God is cruel, not loving. These people gave up that little bit of understanding (Faith) and decided their understanding is better.

Don't kid yourself, you and I can lose our salvation. Don't ever get such a big head to think you are invincible, pride commeth before a big fall.

Thank you for your Admonition, Much appreciated and understand pride before a fall as Paul understood it in 1 cor. 12. I have mentioned in posts about how flesh gets in the way and deceives, as Paul has said many times to us in scripture. Therefore be dead to flesh through the death of Christ in the flesh, then alive to God in the resurrected Christ
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead

 

[homwardbound]

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

What trully is intersting about this subject ,i have notice by reading the scripture how God can change a man heart even put his spirit in that man and still man is capable to lost it all. A fine example King Saul, God change his heart to do his will ,even gave him the holyspirit and made him speak as a prophet.When saul continue to disobay the Lord, God Almighty decided to take away his holyspirit from him. and saul fell from grace he lost it all, even after God himself ,change that man from the inside out ,saul still manage to lost it all.

that is why it is important to hear His instruction and be wise and not disregard it.

in the book of Galatians,1 Corinthians & Revelation , we are gives great example of who will not enter into the kingdom of God.

God bless and thank you all for your insight on this particula question

So then when are you going to finalize the cross in what God did for you, that through it you are dead to flesh sin nature and alive to God, from God a gift to you?
Romans 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Read romans 6:1 on, see that when you were Baptized by God in the Holy Ghost that you were made dead to flesh sin and made new to walk new. either you believe God or you do not. We are working at being in God and getting stressed out and walking away or we are seeing the truth that it is all God and none of me, you or anyone else, for by one sacrifice Christ has done it all for us, and we go into rest as God is at rest since the foundation of the world. This is done by God if we believe God has done it all for us through Son. If we are busy at stopping this or that, then we have not entered into his rest, and thatis because of lack of belief, that it is finished
John 19:30
When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
[h=3]Hebrews 9:15-17[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance. [SUP]16 [/SUP]For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. [SUP]17 [/SUP]For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

 

[homwardbound]

I believe it is possible to lose your salvation. It is called being born again. If you are born you can live or die. Judas was called and chosen however, he lost his salvation. King Saul also lost his place in God. Fear God, that fear will keep you so that you do not fall away. It is possible to fall away.
overcomer2

Born again was not yet in place and did not start until Pentecost. Where they had to wait for the Spirit from on high, to speak through them.
[h=3]John 15:5[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]5 [/SUP]I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Still true to this very day, the above verse ands is why they had to wait. So should we wait and ask God top do through us what we obviously can't through flesh self. You know they hung out with Christ, they knew the truth, why did they have to wait then? Because of the above verse, truth or not? I know I can do nothing of myself, so therefore I ask to be co-crucified with Christ at the death. daily to me self, so that I might be alive to God in the Spirit of God, since today that is the only way God can be worshipped
John 4:23
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
John 14:17 even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Those are in metamorphosis as a Caterpillar is when it spins a cocoon and waits for the born again butterfly to take effect.
Now when this happens that Caterpillar is a butterfly and will never be a worm again.
You are Born again, if one believes and stays with it, unto the full growth in maturity. Once Maturity happens the Cocoon breaks and you see the born again person you are, there is no turning back.
That is what I am saying and what is in being born again from God. The day we first believe we are sealed with the Holy Ghost of promise absolutely, but yet have come to the full understanding of what God has done

[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
[SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So while in the process in Metamorphosis, there are many things that happen here to destroy that cocoon, where one is in the process of being born again.
Just like an apple on the tree branch, has to grow to maturity, and while growing their are parasites around to stop its growth, just as on this earth with the tares amongst the wheat.
Now if one does truly believe, it is god that knows who these are and are not. So who is it then if God has received me, you and or anyone else, that is able to get us to stand
Romans 14:4
Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

1 Corinthians 2:5 that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God

But a caterpillar doesn't instantly become a butterfly. If something detrimental happens during the process of transformation, no butterfly.

 

[KAdamW]

Salvation cannot be lost. Since salvation is of the Lord. When a person gets saved, that person is placed into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:27). And he is sealed with the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:13 & Eph. 4:30). Christians are bought with a price. God purchased them with His own blood (Acts 20:28). So again, salvation cannot be lost in the Church Age (Dispensation of Grace).

I would refer you to...

2Pet. 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

Rom. 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I believe it is possible to lose your salvation. It is called being born again. If you are born you can live or die. Judas was called and chosen however, he lost his salvation. King Saul also lost his place in God. Fear God, that fear will keep you so that you do not fall away. It is possible to fall away.
overcomer2

it is called eternal life. if it is not eternal, but conditional, and thus can be lost. god is a liar, and can not keep his promises or his word/.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

But a caterpillar doesn't instantly become a butterfly. If something detrimental happens during the process of transformation, no butterfly.

yep. and thus he does not have the benefits and rewards of the butterfly. But he is still a new creature.

In spiritual terms. A person not born again is not even a catapiller. He is DEAD!

 

[1disciple]

There are several references in Scripture to people who were once saved and fell from that salvation.

Just one of many is found in 2 Pet. 2:1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

You see that they had once been 'bought', ransomed, purchased. And yet through heresy and denial of the Truth of the Covenant, they bring Perdition upon themselves. The only thing required to lose Covenant Salvation is to deny the Covenant and be unfaithful to it.

Covenant involves two, not one. We stand by Faith. And when that Faith is no longer there, we no longer stand.

Salvation is conditional. The condition is faithfulness to the covenant even as Christ was faithful to the covenant.

But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end. - Heb. 3:6

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There are several references in Scripture to people who were once saved and fell from that salvation.

Just one of many is found in 2 Pet. 2:1: But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.

So God saved false prophets?? Ok. if you say so.

God bought the salvation of every man woman and child. whoever denys him has denyd the master, it does not mean they were ever saved.

You see that they had once been 'bought', ransomed, purchased. And yet through heresy and denial of the Truth of the Covenant, they bring Perdition upon themselves. The only thing required to lose Covenant Salvation is to deny the Covenant and be unfaithful to it.

lol. even if we are faithless/ he is faithfull. he can not deny himself. God does not save people who deny him, he expects true repentance and faith. not just mere belief.

Covenant involves two, not one. We stand by Faith. And when that Faith is no longer there, we no longer stand.

Not all covenants. the Abraham covenant was based on one. God promise. I WILL. the law was a two way covenant, and if failed. we will never live up to the righteous standard of God. thus we can never save ourselves. If salvation is not a one way covenant, no man will be saved.

Salvation is conditional. The condition is faithfulness to the covenant even as Christ was faithful to the covenant.

again not true. that puts us under the flesh, and not under grace.

 

[1disciple]

Again, Paul writes to Christians in Jerusalem in the Letter to the Hebrews, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" -- Heb. 3:12-14

Paul applies the lessons learned of the Jews loosing their Salvation to all Christians as well, and entreats them never to harden their hearts against God as the children of Israel had done in the Wilderness, nor to lose Faith and be deceived through sin. For Salvation is conditioned upon our holding fast to the Confidence in Christ firmly to the End.

Salvation is conditional. It is conditioned upon Faith. It is conditioned upon Faithfulness.

There is no such thing as unconditional salvation or unconditional love. For all things are conditional based upon the conditions of our choices and our will to respond and receive the truth and salvation of Christ. As it is at the beginning of the salvific walk so it is till the end. A personal decision.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Again, Paul writes to Christians in Jerusalem in the Letter to the Hebrews, "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God. But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" -- Heb. 3:12-14

This does NOT prove your point. All it proves is that there were people in the church tasting Gods love and blessings by being in the church and around those who are truly saved.

He did not say fear falling from belief to unbelief. Not everyone in any church is saved.

Paul applies the lessons learned of the Jews loosing their Salvation to all Christians as well, and entreats them never to harden their hearts against God as the children of Israel had done in the Wilderness, nor to lose Faith and be deceived through sin. For Salvation is conditioned upon our holding fast to the Confidence in Christ firmly to the End.

Salvation is conditional. It is conditioned upon Faith. It is conditioned upon Faithfulness.

Again, Wrong.

it is conditioned on faith alone. Saying it is conditioned on faithfullness puts us under law. And ignored the reason hebrews was written/ That we are not under law. The sacrifice of the priest will NOT restor us to god when we fall away. Jesus died ONCE to save us forever.

There is no such thing as unconditional salvation or unconditional love. For all things are conditional based upon the conditions of our choices and our will to respond and receive the truth and salvation of Christ. As it is at the beginning of the salvific walk so it is till the end. A personal decision.

lol. No such thing as unconditional love huh? You speak as a man, who can not know unconditional love. Thus you can not Know God and hus pure unconditional love. This is what Grace us.

Learn to find Christ and his unconditional love, and stop thinking like a man, who can not know this without first experiencing the love of Christ. He teaches US to love unconditionally. He would not tell us to do what he refuses to do.

 

[1disciple]

Again, Paul writes to Timothy (a Christian and saved), saying, "If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:" -- 2 Tim. 2:12

So we see how many 'ifs' Scripture using in explaining the conditions of Salvation. NT Salvation is wholly conditional upon faith and faithfulness because Convenant involves two, not one.