mark 13:32 Problem

[Shilo]

Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.



People who are from Islam like to take the bible verses and try and make Christians stumble. Mark 13:32 is one of them.

Yeshua new all things as he was God we can not separate him being man and God or we make him double minded and that is not true of him.

So how do we bring this verse to truth.

the only answer that has made me think could be true is that the Know here has adiffrent meaning.

Thomas Aquinas , followed Hilary and Augustine in proposing this view. Of Mark 13:32, Aquinas said, “This text is to be interpreted in the light of the usual style of speech found in the Scriptures, in which God is said to know a thing when He imparts knowledge of that thing, as when He said to Abraham, in Genesis 22:12: ‘Now I know that you fear God.’” In fact, Aquinas joins Hilary and Augustine in chorus as they each base their understanding of know on the Old Testament concept portrayed in Genesis 22. In that chapter, God asks Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham’s only son. Moments before the slaughter commenced, the Angel of the Lord called out to Abraham and said, “Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me” (Genesis 22:12). Hilary, Augustine, and Aquinas agree that God already knew Abraham would obey; God’s purpose in the divine display was to show Abraham what God already knew. Transporting this understanding of “know” to Mark 13:32 allows Christ to be cognitively aware of the day, but not yet willing to divulge the information to the disciples.


God knows the end from the beginning he knew what Abraham would do, so this is knowledge become real or seen.

1 Cor 2:2. In the latter passage, Paul writes, “1 Cor 2:2. In the latter passage, Paul writes, “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.” , save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”

We know Paul had great revelations of Yeshua but here he said, “For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.”
He was only giving out the information that the people could handle at that time as they grow in Yeshua he would and did give more.

John 16:12 "I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.

how do others understand Mark 13:32

 

[overcomer2]

I do believe the true believer will know. Rev.3:3 If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. So, watch and you will know. Mark 13:32 I don't believe they were supposed to know at this time. Also it could be Thur here and Fri somewhere else and the hour(it is different in 24 time zones)

The Lord will reveal his secrets to his prophets.

 

[nathan3]

They have to take the rest of the Bible into consideration. And learn why God would come down and give His life for His children, they often dont understand Mark 13:32. The Heavenly Father, is speaking of Himself in the third person.

I don't know how you would talk to a believer in Islam about this ? its just something God can only make grow .

 

[just-us-2]

This verse is part of a passage foretelling the second coming of Jesus Christ and is a parallel of a Hebrew betrothal/marriage ketubah (marriage contract). The whole explanation would be awfully long to put in a post but just a quick summary is this. There are several steps taken between the families of the bride and groom involving sealing certain milestones of the process by sharing a cup of wine. The part that compares with Mark 13:32 is when toward the end of the progression of events, the groom has gone to prepare a home for his bride (compare with John 14:1-3). The groom is still under his father’s authority and the groom’s father determines when the preparations are complete. This is why Mark 13:32 says, “However, when that day and hour will come, no one knows -- not the angels in heaven, not the Son, just the Father.”


Then in Acts 1:7 the same principle is reiterated: “He answered, "You don't need to know the dates or the times; the Father has kept these under his own authority.”

 

[just-me]

Mark 12:28-29 (CJB)

28 One of the *Torah-teachers (**scribes) came up and heard them engaged in this discussion. Seeing that Yeshua answered them well, he asked him, "Which is the most important mitzvah(principles to be put into action) of them all?"
29Yeshua answered, "The most important is, `Sh'ma Yisra'el, ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI echad[Hear, O Isra'el, the LORD our God, the LORD is one],

Sh'ma Yisra'el, ADONAI Eloheinu, ADONAI

Sh’ma= a voice saying “listen up and hear intelligently.”
Yisre’el=“He will rule as God” Jacobs posterity.
ADONAI=literally, “My Lord”. The name represents the tetragrammaton (four dimensional) of the Hebrew name of God consisting of four letters. Yud-heh-vav-heh “Yahweh” “YHWH”
Eloheinu=our God
When you see 'el' in any Hebrew name, it is a form of the word for God. See other names such as Ishmael (God has heard), Michael (Who is like God), and Daniel (My judge is God).
Echad=unity

“Listen intelligently to the ruling God of Jacob. My Lord is God. He is unity.”

Mark 12:32b-33 (KJV)
[SUP]32 b[/SUP]Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is *one God; and there is none other but he:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
1 Samuel 15:22 (KJV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP]And Samuel said, Hath the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, as in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to hearken than the fat of rams.

Then when Jesus continues, He throws the listeners for a curve after the scribe said there is “*one God.” For that the Hebrew word for “*one” (Strong’s #259) is “*echad”, meaning united.

Mark 12:35-37 (KJV)
[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said, while he taught in the temple, How say the scribes that Christ is the Son of David?
[SUP]36 [/SUP]For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.
[SUP]37 [/SUP]David therefore himself calleth him Lord; and whence is he then his son? And the common people heard him gladly.
Psalm 110:1 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.

“Ached” (Strong’s #258) is a related word to “*echad” meaning to unify thought patterns, i.e. the direction of the Holy Spirit in this case. Therefore, “*one” is defined as “*echad”, making God a “united Lord.”

John 10:30 (KJV)
[SUP]30 [/SUP]I and my Father are *one.
Deuteronomy 6:4 (KJV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is *one LORD:

So we see the Father and son connected, or fixed together, by His Holy Spirit (Ruach HaKodesh) as a unit of “*One”.

John 4:24 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP]God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Isaiah 61:1-2 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Luke 4:18-19 (KJV)
[SUP]18 [/SUP]The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
[SUP]19 [/SUP]To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.

I hope this helps. Every time I study like this, in depth that is, I realize there is so much more to it than I can never comprehend, so I keep praying and studying. It's kinda compulsive.

 

[starfield]

Mark 13:32 "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

People who are from Islam like to take the bible verses and try and make Christians stumble. Mark 13:32 is one of them.

Yeshua new all things as he was God we can not separate him being man and God or we make him double minded and that is not true of him.

So how do we bring this verse to truth...

Jesus is one Person of the Trinity with two natures, divine and human, and Mark 13:32 is from the perspective of His human nature. He was not all-knowing in His humanity yet all-knowing in His deity. He did not cease being God at His incarnation. He is God, in fact scripture says in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

 

[nathan3]

Jesus is one Person of the Trinity with two natures, divine and human, and Mark 13:32 is from the perspective of His human nature. He was not all-knowing in His humanity yet all-knowing in His deity. He did not cease being God at His incarnation. He is God, in fact scripture says in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

why get cought up in weather he was all knowing? He is the Master teacher; the word made flesh . so why bother trying to say phrases also like, he did not cease being God. The wording should be in my opinion exactically like the bible says it. I would have just stayed with Godhead bodily He is God.

Because all the rest I think can confused some one who is just starting out.

I see it simply as we worship one God who plays different roles.

we don't have three separate individuals because of the scriptures saying that they are one..

 

[Shilo]

Thanks everyone
Just us 2,
I did know this, I got lost by isolating one scripture thanks so much for puting me back on track.

Just me, Thanks Ido know that the unity of father, son and Holy spirit is echad.

thanks for your time, knidness and correction.

 

[Mark51]

Commonly, churches use the word “Trinity” when giving their view of the relationship of Christ with God. The way that churches define the Trinity doctrine may vary. The Athanasian Creed, thought to be of the fifth century C.E., presents it in this way:
“The Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one: the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal. .　.　. The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. .　.　. So likewise the Father is almighty, the Son almighty, and the Holy Spirit almighty.”
Is this what you believe-that God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit are the same in substance, power and eternity? Most churches teach this, including the Roman Catholic Church. John J. Moment wrote regarding the Athanasian Creed in his book We Believe: “Its stereotyped definitions have continued to be accepted in Protestantism, more or less consciously, as the norm of orthodoxy.”

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says of the Trinity: “It is not, as already seen, directly and immediately word of God.” (Volume 14, page 304) No, neither the word “Trinity” nor even the Trinity doctrine is mentioned in the Bible. It was conceived centuries after the death of Jesus and his apostles at Church councils.

For example, Lutheran seminary professor N. Leroy Norquist, writing in The Lutheran, explained: “The men who framed [the Trinity] designed it as a tool to be used against heretics. In fighting heresy, they experimented with words, sharpened phrases, until they had defined the relation of the three ‘persons’ of the Trinity.”

At the Church council at Nicaea in 325　C.E., one supporter of the belief that Jesus had existed eternally struck in the face a Church delegate who did not accept this newly framed concept. It was at this council that Emperor Constantine ruled in favor of this view, making possible its adoption by the Church. Constantine was, at the time, an unbaptized pagan who murdered his son, his second wife and several others of his relatives.

These early Bible believers, that opposed the Trinity doctrine, would quote Mark 13:32. They would ask: “How can the Father and Son be of one substance yet the Father know things of which the Son is ignorant?” The framers of the Trinity, historians tell us, were completely helpless when confronted with this scripture.

But Mark 13:32 is not the only scripture of that kind. Jesus Christ over and over again acknowledged his subordination to the Father. For example, Jesus said: “The Father is greater than I.” (John 14:28) And further showing submission to his Father, he prayed: “Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” (Luke 22:42) Also, the Bible says that God is “from everlasting to everlasting,” but calls Jesus “the first-born of all creation” and “the beginning of God’s creation.”-Psalms 90:2; Colossians 1:15; Revelation 3:14.

Theologians know about such scriptures, even though these may not be emphasized in churches. Thus, Professor Martin Werner of the University of Bern states in The Formation of Christian Dogma (1957): “Wherever in the New Testament the relationship of Jesus to God, the Father, is brought into consideration, whether with reference to his appearance as a man or to his Messianic status, it is conceived of and represented categorically as subordination.”

There are those that may ask: What difference does it really make? How does this affect my happiness and welfare?

It matters because Jesus said: “This is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.” (John 17:3) If you do not know the true God-that He is superior to and separate and distinct from Jesus Christ-you cannot worship God in the way that he approves. And our gaining eternal life in happiness in His new system of things is dependent on our accurately knowing and properly worshiping the only true God.

 

[Kerry]

I will say this, although it may be of the subject. The Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 yet they act as one unit. If you look at it this way, the Father is the owner, the Son is the architect, and the Spirit is the builder. Without going into a long drawn out thing. You can also view it as this, the Father is wisdom, the Son is knowledge and the Spirit is prudence. Prudence being the act of wisdom and knowledge.

Now when it comes Jesus, He is and was both God and man. We see this in John 1:1 In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God. 2. The same was in the beginning with God. 3. All things were made by Him, and without Him was not anything made that was made.

Then in John 1:14 And the word was made flesh and dwelt among us.

So here we see the word leaving his place of Glory to become a man and act as a man and to restrain Himself to the limitations of man. To die on a cross for all humanity per the will of the Father. Jesus basically ask in that prayer where He said "let this cup pass from me" if there was another way. Because He was man and physical death frightened Him as it does all men. He felt Emotion and pain and temptation and Hunger and thirst. Yet He followed the will of the Father and thank God He did!!!!

Even in this act the 3 are acting in one unit. Jesus said I do what I see my Father do. So see it this way, when a person has healed, the Father ordained it, Jesus spoke it and the Spirit performed it.

Now with all that said, Jesus is still a man. Paul said we do not what we shall be, but we shall be like Him.

So I would surmise to say that Jesus told the truth when He said that He did not know the time, as He only does what he sees the Father do. Only the Father knows as best I can tell with my finite mind.