Dance Team Tryouts
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Even the most spirit-filled believers make different decisions. First of all, understand that we are not bound by the law, but have been made free by God's grace. You are free to chose to join the dance team.
Second, ask the Lord what he would have you do. Should you refrain because of modesty concerns, or should you join as a steward of the gift He has given you? I worked with one of the contestants for the Miss Texas pageants who is from a conservative Christian family, but she felt that The Lord wanted her to be a light in the pageant world. She used that platform to talk about God and promote pro-life issues. God could have a similar plan for you. Or perhaps He wants you to use your talents in another forum.
Surrender this decision to The Lord and follow where he leads you. I am happy that you are willing to even ask the question.
Second, ask the Lord what he would have you do. Should you refrain because of modesty concerns, or should you join as a steward of the gift He has given you? I worked with one of the contestants for the Miss Texas pageants who is from a conservative Christian family, but she felt that The Lord wanted her to be a light in the pageant world. She used that platform to talk about God and promote pro-life issues. God could have a similar plan for you. Or perhaps He wants you to use your talents in another forum.
Surrender this decision to The Lord and follow where he leads you. I am happy that you are willing to even ask the question.
J
Even the most spirit-filled believers make different decisions. First of all, understand that we are not bound by the law, but have been made free by God's grace. You are free to chose to join the dance team.
Second, ask the Lord what he would have you do. Should you refrain because of modesty concerns, or should you join as a steward of the gift He has given you? I worked with one of the contestants for the Miss Texas pageants who is from a conservative Christian family, but she felt that The Lord wanted her to be a light in the pageant world. She used that platform to talk about God and promote pro-life issues. God could have a similar plan for you. Or perhaps He wants you to use your talents in another forum.
Surrender this decision to The Lord and follow where he leads you. I am happy that you are willing to even ask the question.
Second, ask the Lord what he would have you do. Should you refrain because of modesty concerns, or should you join as a steward of the gift He has given you? I worked with one of the contestants for the Miss Texas pageants who is from a conservative Christian family, but she felt that The Lord wanted her to be a light in the pageant world. She used that platform to talk about God and promote pro-life issues. God could have a similar plan for you. Or perhaps He wants you to use your talents in another forum.
Surrender this decision to The Lord and follow where he leads you. I am happy that you are willing to even ask the question.
Weighing both sides of an issue isn't pitting scripture against scripture. Much of the letters of Paul deal with issues that are seemingly opposed. Without the leading of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to understand how these all work together for God's glory. Examples are: faith vs. works, grace vs. truth, predestination vs. free will, stumbling-block principle vs. liberty in Christ.
I think the dangerous part, at least for me, is this:
We should NEVER have to decide between modesty and being a steward of God's giftings in our lives. Why? Because God would never say, "Well, you know, it is a touch immodest and indecent and not what I'd want My daughter to wear, but I did gift you in this area, so, you know, go for it, because you want to steward the gift and you might as well do it this way, as I can't possibly give you another way, a way that would glorify Me."
Christ-followers never have to sacrifice morality to use the gifts of God. That is a dangerous line of thought. God is not contradictory in His giftings or His callings and He wouldn't tell someone to sacrifice holiness, even a little bit, in order to use their gifts.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Ephesians 5:3, NIV
We should NEVER have to decide between modesty and being a steward of God's giftings in our lives. Why? Because God would never say, "Well, you know, it is a touch immodest and indecent and not what I'd want My daughter to wear, but I did gift you in this area, so, you know, go for it, because you want to steward the gift and you might as well do it this way, as I can't possibly give you another way, a way that would glorify Me."
Christ-followers never have to sacrifice morality to use the gifts of God. That is a dangerous line of thought. God is not contradictory in His giftings or His callings and He wouldn't tell someone to sacrifice holiness, even a little bit, in order to use their gifts.
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Ephesians 5:3, NIV
Define modesty.
Modesty actually means to dress appropriately. It is impossible to make definitive measurements of modesty because it is relative to the culture and time. Bare ankles were immodest in Texas a century ago, but there are topless Christians in the jungles of New Guinea (their male counterparts wear ceremonial penis sheathes). A nursing mother is not inappropriate (not willing to argue that point). The Duggars consider pants immodest, but some Asian Christians consider dresses to be harlots' attire. I'm not talking about sacrificing morality, rather, cautioning against the legalism and equally female-objectifying practice that is hyper-modesty.
Modesty actually means to dress appropriately. It is impossible to make definitive measurements of modesty because it is relative to the culture and time. Bare ankles were immodest in Texas a century ago, but there are topless Christians in the jungles of New Guinea (their male counterparts wear ceremonial penis sheathes). A nursing mother is not inappropriate (not willing to argue that point). The Duggars consider pants immodest, but some Asian Christians consider dresses to be harlots' attire. I'm not talking about sacrificing morality, rather, cautioning against the legalism and equally female-objectifying practice that is hyper-modesty.
J
I dont' see where asking that a woman not show off her lady parts wearing outfit #1 is "hyper-modesty".
If you don't like God's commands regarding human sexuality and human attire, suit yourself, but don't try to get all fiesty with those of us who do care, and would like to see this young lass prosper in God.
If you don't like God's commands regarding human sexuality and human attire, suit yourself, but don't try to get all fiesty with those of us who do care, and would like to see this young lass prosper in God.
This response is not intended for the OP. I am not condemning or judging her thoughts or motives here, nor am I saying that this is her intention. This is in response to the comments and posts above. I replied to the OP earlier. Just, you know, FYI because I don't want defenders rising up and attacking me.
Word studies are dangerous, but here we go!
I think, rather than suggesting that we can be lax on our modesty, we should look closely at what is considered immodest and do we really want to be looked at as one who is immodest?
So, here's the ultimate question: Would you wear that outfit to church? Would you wear it in front of your fellow believers in the midst of worshiping a holy and pure God? Would you wear that when meeting with your pastor or youth leader? Would you be comfortable dancing that way in the midst of the presence of God in worship in His house? Would you wear that to meet your fiancée's parents for the first time? If the answer is no (and, it should be, honestly), then why would you consider wearing it at all?
Now, I know what you're thinking. Of course I wouldn't! And what does it matter? It doesn't have anything to do with church. Ah, but it does, because you never know who is watching, you never know who is sitting in those stands, and though you meet your fiancée and go to meet his parents, they inform you, quite politely, that they've been to games and seen you perform and, though you're wearing the most modest outfit in your closet, you know that they've seen you in much, much less and thus, their opinion of your modesty has already been set in their minds.
And, finally, the words of Lisa Bevere from Kissed the Girls and Made Them Cry, when asked if she thought it was okay for girls to dress suggestively: Sure. I think it is a great idea. Go right ahead and dress like a whore if you want to attract a whoremonger. It's like fishing - the bait you use will determine what you'll catch. So if you want to hook a sleazy guy, by all means dress sleazy.
But, because as Christians we should take God's word over all others, I once again give the following Scripture: But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Ephesians 5:3, NIV [emphasis mine]
As I said, word studies are dangerous things. This can go on and on and on. In fact, outside of here, it is doing so with my current word study regarding all these words. I just want to point out two last things.
One, I like how propriety means 'private property'. I think if we all began to look at ourselves and our bodies as the private property of God, we would dress a great deal more differently. Also, if we then, once married, looked at our bodies as the private property of God and our spouse, well, still, we would dress differently. I think that these days, the world teaches us that beauty is sexy and sexy is perfectly tasteful and fine and, therefore, your body is not private property, but rather, belongs to the hungry eyes of all.
Two, I like how impurity talks about being mixed, having more than one color, style or tone. This is referring, of course, to metals and such, however, as a disciple of Christ, I consider this having a bit of the world's color mixed in with the white as snow purity of Christ. Impure. Powerful, yes?
Okay...I'm done.
Word studies are dangerous, but here we go!
I think, rather than suggesting that we can be lax on our modesty, we should look closely at what is considered immodest and do we really want to be looked at as one who is immodest?
So, here's the ultimate question: Would you wear that outfit to church? Would you wear it in front of your fellow believers in the midst of worshiping a holy and pure God? Would you wear that when meeting with your pastor or youth leader? Would you be comfortable dancing that way in the midst of the presence of God in worship in His house? Would you wear that to meet your fiancée's parents for the first time? If the answer is no (and, it should be, honestly), then why would you consider wearing it at all?
Now, I know what you're thinking. Of course I wouldn't! And what does it matter? It doesn't have anything to do with church. Ah, but it does, because you never know who is watching, you never know who is sitting in those stands, and though you meet your fiancée and go to meet his parents, they inform you, quite politely, that they've been to games and seen you perform and, though you're wearing the most modest outfit in your closet, you know that they've seen you in much, much less and thus, their opinion of your modesty has already been set in their minds.
And, finally, the words of Lisa Bevere from Kissed the Girls and Made Them Cry, when asked if she thought it was okay for girls to dress suggestively: Sure. I think it is a great idea. Go right ahead and dress like a whore if you want to attract a whoremonger. It's like fishing - the bait you use will determine what you'll catch. So if you want to hook a sleazy guy, by all means dress sleazy.
But, because as Christians we should take God's word over all others, I once again give the following Scripture: But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. Ephesians 5:3, NIV [emphasis mine]
As I said, word studies are dangerous things. This can go on and on and on. In fact, outside of here, it is doing so with my current word study regarding all these words. I just want to point out two last things.
One, I like how propriety means 'private property'. I think if we all began to look at ourselves and our bodies as the private property of God, we would dress a great deal more differently. Also, if we then, once married, looked at our bodies as the private property of God and our spouse, well, still, we would dress differently. I think that these days, the world teaches us that beauty is sexy and sexy is perfectly tasteful and fine and, therefore, your body is not private property, but rather, belongs to the hungry eyes of all.
Two, I like how impurity talks about being mixed, having more than one color, style or tone. This is referring, of course, to metals and such, however, as a disciple of Christ, I consider this having a bit of the world's color mixed in with the white as snow purity of Christ. Impure. Powerful, yes?
Okay...I'm done.
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O
Hello! I'm just going to come out and ask this. A couple of months ago another person wrote this very similar message on Godvine - which, btw, I answered. I looked at your picture and it's amazingly the same as the video below. Was this you? I'm enclosing pasted question on Godvine and the link to Kilgore College Rangerettes.
Hi, I'm a dancer. I love to do ballet and jazz, but sometimes I feel it gets in the way of my Christian walk. I'm going to college soon and I want to tryout to be a Kilgore College Rangerette. I'll attach a video for those of you who don't know what they are. I'm really excited but I'm starting to think that maybe it isn't right. They wear really short skirts and when they to high kicks their panties show. Is this Ok since it's just dancing? Or is it a form of entice for men? Is it modest? I know this is kinda silly but I would really appreciate help from those who have more Bible knowledge and wisdom than I do. Thanks!
Kilgore College Rangerettes - YouTube
[video=youtube;rRSa5bfiuAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rRSa5bfiuAg[/video]
Hi, I'm a dancer. I love to do ballet and jazz, but sometimes I feel it gets in the way of my Christian walk. I'm going to college soon and I want to tryout to be a Kilgore College Rangerette. I'll attach a video for those of you who don't know what they are. I'm really excited but I'm starting to think that maybe it isn't right. They wear really short skirts and when they to high kicks their panties show. Is this Ok since it's just dancing? Or is it a form of entice for men? Is it modest? I know this is kinda silly but I would really appreciate help from those who have more Bible knowledge and wisdom than I do. Thanks!
Kilgore College Rangerettes - YouTube
[video=youtube;rRSa5bfiuAg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=rRSa5bfiuAg[/video]
I was unaware that a Biblical and logical approach would be considered "feisty."
The primary source of confusion is that many Christians fail to understand the difference between principles and applications. Principles are truths found in scripture and universally relevant (meaning for all people, at all times). Their meanings do not vary from person to person. In this case, the principle is modesty, which is true whether we believe it or not. Please note that I never stated anything overtly against modesty, and I apologize if that was inferred.
For every principle, however, there are potentially infinite applications, which are how you choose to use live out the Biblical truths in your life. Examples of applications of modesty include having specific measurable lengths of skirts, refraining from pants or shorts, wearing loose clothing, wearing a head scarf, avoiding mixed-gender swimming, not behaving in an overly flirtatious manner, using a blanket while breastfeeding in public, not wearing clothing from the opposite gender; and the list continues ad nauseum. That doesn't mean that all applications are for all people. How you apply the Biblical principles is a decision that should be determined primarily by prayer and scripture, with some influence from your family, culture, and church.
My initial advice to the OP was to keep Biblical principles in mind and pray about how to apply them to this situation, and I stand by the theology behind it.
The primary source of confusion is that many Christians fail to understand the difference between principles and applications. Principles are truths found in scripture and universally relevant (meaning for all people, at all times). Their meanings do not vary from person to person. In this case, the principle is modesty, which is true whether we believe it or not. Please note that I never stated anything overtly against modesty, and I apologize if that was inferred.
For every principle, however, there are potentially infinite applications, which are how you choose to use live out the Biblical truths in your life. Examples of applications of modesty include having specific measurable lengths of skirts, refraining from pants or shorts, wearing loose clothing, wearing a head scarf, avoiding mixed-gender swimming, not behaving in an overly flirtatious manner, using a blanket while breastfeeding in public, not wearing clothing from the opposite gender; and the list continues ad nauseum. That doesn't mean that all applications are for all people. How you apply the Biblical principles is a decision that should be determined primarily by prayer and scripture, with some influence from your family, culture, and church.
My initial advice to the OP was to keep Biblical principles in mind and pray about how to apply them to this situation, and I stand by the theology behind it.
No lol that's not me. I live in California but the uniforms are very similar to those and that's why I posted those pics. I didn't even know what they were or even if they were a dance group or a colorguard. I just googled uniforms for dancers and there they were. I don't want people to know what school I go to so I posted other girls from other schools. That's funny though. Guess I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I didn't try out. I talked to my dad about it and he said it's better that I focus on school and my son anyways
M
This is why Jesus said we must be born again.Its actually one of the first things he taught on because he knew how important it was in enabling us to live a christian life.
we are told in scripture that in the last days people would be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God and have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.
The bible tells us that we are born in sin shaped in iniquity and come into the world speaking lies.our natural birth is associated with sin and death. “Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.” (Job 14:1) That's why, we need to be born again. We need to be reunited with our original nature - the nature of God.
when we repent and are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ we then wait to receive the gift of the holy spirit.The Holy Spirit is our power over the world (worldliness), the flesh (self) and the Devil. He enables us to live daily for God - making the Word flesh in us. It is the “law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus which hath made me free from the law of sin and death”. (Romans 8:2).
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost continues the work of Sanctification, separating us daily, from the world and the things of the world. The Holy Spirit (in us) creates in us a “hunger and thirst for the righteousness of God”.
Until we actually surrender to the born again experience we will be living under the dictates of the flesh and although we will consider ourselves christians we will actually be lukewarm and lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.
we will find it hard to surrender our whole lives to Jesus.
romans 12.1 says we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice unto God holy and acceptable and this is our reasonable service but it is impossible to do this with our fleshly nature.
we are told in scripture that in the last days people would be lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God and have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.
The bible tells us that we are born in sin shaped in iniquity and come into the world speaking lies.our natural birth is associated with sin and death. “Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble.” (Job 14:1) That's why, we need to be born again. We need to be reunited with our original nature - the nature of God.
when we repent and are baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ we then wait to receive the gift of the holy spirit.The Holy Spirit is our power over the world (worldliness), the flesh (self) and the Devil. He enables us to live daily for God - making the Word flesh in us. It is the “law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus which hath made me free from the law of sin and death”. (Romans 8:2).
The Baptism of the Holy Ghost continues the work of Sanctification, separating us daily, from the world and the things of the world. The Holy Spirit (in us) creates in us a “hunger and thirst for the righteousness of God”.
Until we actually surrender to the born again experience we will be living under the dictates of the flesh and although we will consider ourselves christians we will actually be lukewarm and lovers of pleasure more than lovers of God.
we will find it hard to surrender our whole lives to Jesus.
romans 12.1 says we are to present our bodies a living sacrifice unto God holy and acceptable and this is our reasonable service but it is impossible to do this with our fleshly nature.
Your statement scares me because it is the verbiage that used by a culture that blames the victim. "She was asking for it" is exactly how sexual assault is justified. You are probably a great guy, but we need to not provide any way for anyone else to be to blamed for our own sins. We need to teach men not to lust, ogle, objectify, harass, assault, or rape women for ANY reason. Your thoughts and actions are your own. Period.
As women, we need to be conscious of how we are perceived and keep that in mind as we dress and conduct ourselves publicly. Our demeanors should project our personalities instead of our sexuality. God created men and women to bare His image in the world. We are daughters of God and should dress and behave as such.
As women, we need to be conscious of how we are perceived and keep that in mind as we dress and conduct ourselves publicly. Our demeanors should project our personalities instead of our sexuality. God created men and women to bare His image in the world. We are daughters of God and should dress and behave as such.
J
... and a daughter of God shouldn't be wearing those outfits. They are ridiculously immodest for a Christian. Modesty isn't a one way street either, it applies to guys as well. A male shouldn't go without a T-shirt when around women folk.. a man's chest is just as much a sexual object in this country as a woman's chest is.
It's not a "Blame the victim" rally.
1 Corinthians 8:9
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.
On your profile you say you are a Christian, so my recommendation to you would be to not advocate for stumbling blocks, let alone advocate for sin.
Which is why we should dress modestly. Yet, you come in here upset about how we're advising a young lass not to be showing off her lady parts in the cheerleading outfits. There's a reason cheerleaders are perceived by young lads, and by older men surfing the internet as promiscuous.
It's not a "Blame the victim" rally.
1 Corinthians 8:9
Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak.
On your profile you say you are a Christian, so my recommendation to you would be to not advocate for stumbling blocks, let alone advocate for sin.
Which is why we should dress modestly. Yet, you come in here upset about how we're advising a young lass not to be showing off her lady parts in the cheerleading outfits. There's a reason cheerleaders are perceived by young lads, and by older men surfing the internet as promiscuous.
O
Misty77 - I have agreed with nearly all your theological assertions and thank you for clarifying. I am actually in Nautilus' corner too, at least a little bit - not that I approve of disgusting reading or visual material, only that censorship disgusts me more. I think you were right when you said "....without the leading of the Holy Spirit, it is impossible to understand..." concerning biblical meaning of modesty or propriety and I (personally) believe that the intent of the bible serves as a guidance of principle (that you eloquently pointed out) for ever changing times so that our values won't change while our cultures never stop changing. (long stupid sentence but I hope you understand what I mean and I don't think I have said it better than you).
Now - I will also say that I don't think the post by Ugly could be construed to suggest that it was verbiage used (to) blame the victim. Ugly went on to say that Christians (and all people actually) have a "reasonable level of responsibility" of the effects on others. I think this is right. Whether it is a long or short term effect, provocative attire still can have a culturally negative effect. In my (limited) understanding, good and evil by themselves are benign unless they're acted upon. If someone dresses or dances in a culturally provocative way inducing sexual thought, this is an action which can cause detrimental action by others. A cause and effect scenario that Ugly was pointing out. So then, this leads us Christians to truthfully try and understand those things (culturally) that are not only stumbling blocks for us personally but also what might be stumbling blocks for others. That is the "responsibility" I believe Ugly was speaking of.
Let me clarify one more thing too about my statement about "disgusting materials" and the censorship of such. I will stand by my assertion that censorship of (nearly) any kind is a far greater danger than the obvious dangers pornography or sexually explicit materials employ. Censorship (to me) is the greater outrage. God has not only given us free choice, He also convicts us. Jesus never suggested enforcement of His Way of Truth and Light by the Roman sword. There is ultimately no end to censorship or oppression while there is in spirit a beginning for the Christian soul by conviction.
I'm sure my explanation is not really complete and I would LOVE it if you could help me
Now - I will also say that I don't think the post by Ugly could be construed to suggest that it was verbiage used (to) blame the victim. Ugly went on to say that Christians (and all people actually) have a "reasonable level of responsibility" of the effects on others. I think this is right. Whether it is a long or short term effect, provocative attire still can have a culturally negative effect. In my (limited) understanding, good and evil by themselves are benign unless they're acted upon. If someone dresses or dances in a culturally provocative way inducing sexual thought, this is an action which can cause detrimental action by others. A cause and effect scenario that Ugly was pointing out. So then, this leads us Christians to truthfully try and understand those things (culturally) that are not only stumbling blocks for us personally but also what might be stumbling blocks for others. That is the "responsibility" I believe Ugly was speaking of.
Let me clarify one more thing too about my statement about "disgusting materials" and the censorship of such. I will stand by my assertion that censorship of (nearly) any kind is a far greater danger than the obvious dangers pornography or sexually explicit materials employ. Censorship (to me) is the greater outrage. God has not only given us free choice, He also convicts us. Jesus never suggested enforcement of His Way of Truth and Light by the Roman sword. There is ultimately no end to censorship or oppression while there is in spirit a beginning for the Christian soul by conviction.
I'm sure my explanation is not really complete and I would LOVE it if you could help me
