What Laws are still valid to christians

[eternally-gratefull]

Leviticus 26 is irrelevant to my point, you keep trying to lock my words and quoted Scriptures to it.

Lev 26 is what started this conversation. You broke into our conversation. So you have to live with it.

It was MY POINT.

So if your going to tell me I am wrong in MY point. You have to discuss it.

 

[Hizikyah]

Lev 26 is what started this conversation. You broke into our conversation. So you have to live with it.

It was MY POINT.

So if your going to tell me I am wrong in MY point. You have to discuss it.

What ever reasoning you were doing with someone else I dont know about, I can only speak for myself. Possibly I misunderstood you view, or partly disagree. To me I dont need Leviticus 26 to even be on my radar to prove to MYSELF curses come from disobedience to Yahweh's Law. All my prior posts are simply saying curses only come from disobedience to Yahweh's Instructions, blessings only come from obedience to Yahweh's Instruction. Also mankind is so far from the will of Yahweh many believe they are doing the will of Yahweh and are not. (this last somment is not aimed at you, but many I see in the world)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What ever reasoning you were doing with someone else I dont know about, I can only speak for myself. Possibly I misunderstood you view, or partly disagree. To me I dont need Leviticus 26 to even be on my radar to prove to MYSELF curses come from disobedience to Yahweh's Law. All my prior posts are simply saying curses only come from disobedience to Yahweh's Instructions, blessings only come from obedience to Yahweh's Instruction. Also mankind is so far from the will of Yahweh many believe they are doing the will of Yahweh and are not. (this last somment is not aimed at you, but many I see in the world)

So again, I ask you, Someone who is suffering persecution, and tribulation is doing so because they are in sin? Poor Paul. He must have been a very bad sinner to deserve all that persecution and suffering.

 

[Elin]

I find the instructions on how to love in the law according to

Deuteronomy 6:1-9 (KJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP]Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:
[SUP]2 [/SUP]That thou mightest fear the LORD thy God, to keep all his statutes and his commandments, which I command thee, thou, and thy son, and thy son's son, all the days of thy life; and that thy days may be prolonged.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Hear therefore, O Israel, and observe to do it; that it may be well with thee, and that ye may increase mightily, as the LORD God of thy fathers hath promised thee, in the land that floweth with milk and honey.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Matthew 22:36-40 (KJV)
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.

[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Leviticus 19:11-18 (KJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour.
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I am the LORD.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour asthyself: I am the LORD.

Okay. . .this comes down to whether you believe all of the NT is God-breathed (2Ti 3:16), or not.

The NT is the word of God from the Son (Heb 1:1-2), in which light all of Scripture is to be understood.
The NT reveals that
the law has been changed because the priesthood in the order of Aaron has been changed to the
priesthood in the order of Meclshizedek, with Christ Jesus as its new and eternal High Priest (Heb 7:12, 17, 21),

and has been set aside for righteousness and salvation because it was weak and useless to obtain them (Heb 7:18-19),

thereby making obsolete the Old (Sinaitic) Covenant which was based on it (Heb 8:13).

The Mosaic law, which cursed all who did not obey every word of it (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10),
has been replaced with the law of Christ (Gal 6:2) which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21),
but with one huge difference for God's people: there is no curse attached for imperfect
obedience.

Christ's law is the law of love (Mt 22:37-40; Ro 13:8-10), which is now written on our hearts
(Heb 8:10) so that we love without the prescription of myriad regulations.

It's the freedom we have in Christ from myriad regulations prescribing godly behavior
being replaced with the Holy Spirit who works love in our hearts which gives us godly behavior.

It's the difference between regulations externally governing one's behavior and
love internally governing one's behavior.
And the beautiful thing about it all--love will automatically fulfill the requirements prescribed
for godly behavior without having to consult a written code about what they are.

 

[Hizikyah]

So again, I ask you, Someone who is suffering persecution, and tribulation is doing so because they are in sin? Poor Paul. He must have been a very bad sinner to deserve all that persecution and suffering.

I dont know everything Shaul did, he did say he was still fighting sin, and it could have been the effect of past sin left to linger in him as a reminder. IDK for sure, again we dont know all of what he did and we dont even know the specifics of what he asked to be removed form Him when Yahweh said no and that His strength is made perfect in weakness.

Also, take a newborn for example, they arent yet sinners yet at times are born with cancer or disease etc, are we to believe Yahweh just chooses to have children born defored at times just because. NO, the sins of the world, generation after generation cause this, (your might hate this one, and the point is not to get into a food debate) one ounce of pork a day can raise the chance of pancreatic cancer by 20%, what if you have 3 generations of pork eaters, will the DNA of the 4th have an increased chance of cancer? How about STDs or alcohol abuse? Will this effect the DNA of future generations with curses? Yes all these will.

"to the third and fourth generation"

Again:

Proverbs 26:2, "As a fluttering sparrow, or a flying swallow will alight, so a curse causeless will not come."

Also does Isayah 24:1-6 even register to you? Im not fully sure of your stance because you havent fully stated your view to me, just bit and pieces , and a comment here and there about my views or lack of addressing Lev26. On a point by point basis do you agree with my views and again what about Isayah 24:1-6 (really v5)

 

[Hizikyah]

The Mosaic law, which cursed all who did not obey every word of it (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10),
has been replaced with the law of Christ (Gal 6:2) which is now the law of God (1Co 9:21),
but with one huge difference for God's people: there is no curse attached for imperfect
obedience.

So if a human fornicates and catches an STD is that not a curse?

 

[Elin]

Was the law necessary to establish something?

The Decalogue established what obedience to God meant.

The ceremonial laws were for a pre-figure of Christ, and "established" the pattern of his nature and work.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.

It's not a matter of enmity against the law or not. It's a matter of what your relationship is to the law. If you are under the law because of disobedience, you are under its curse. Paul uses very plain speech in this matter. Nothing hard to understand there.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So if a human fornicates and catches an STD is that not a curse?

No. Thats a result of sin. Just like many people get an STD or a disease that never sinned.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I dont know everything Shaul did, he did say he was still fighting sin, and it could have been the effect of past sin left to linger in him as a reminder. IDK for sure, again we dont know all of what he did and we dont even know the specifics of what he asked to be removed form Him when Yahweh said no and that His strength is made perfect in weakness.

He did it for God. God used his suffering, Not because he sinned. People like you are dangerous. And many have walked away from God because of people who teach this dangerous thing you are trying to teach.


don;t you remember when the people asked Jesus who sinned, the blind person or his parents? It had nothing to do with sin, Jesus as much as said so.

 

[Hizikyah]

It's not a matter of enmity against the law or not. It's a matter of what your relationship is to the law. If you are under the law because of disobedience, you are under its curse. Paul uses very plain speech in this matter. Nothing hard to understand there.

disobedience=curses / Law does not = curses

do not kill or do not fornicate is not a curse, but breaking these brings curses to the one who commits them and if done on a large scale to the world.

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

Circumcision is a sign of the covenant made between God and man. The covenant was already made. The circumcision was the sign. If someone decides they don't need that particular sign, then that's between them and God. I also remember that covenant on my own. I just choose to be obedient to Gods command.

I suppose I thought that the sign of circumcision, like the sacrifices, pointed to the Messiah. Once He was born into the world, its sort of redundant, 'cause He's not going to be born into it again. He'll come from Heaven next time. That is - the covenant is everlasting - Jesus died for our sins so we can be with Him forever. But the sign is on our hearts now rather than our flesh, because Jesus has already been born in the flesh.

I might not have this view if Paul hadn't explicitly spelled it out (i.e. circumcision not required for believers), but He did.

 

[letti]

I't is your heart he searches above all else.He knows the inside of each of us.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You consistently twist Shaul's words at every chance. There is only ONE writer in all the Scriptures that is being singled out as "hard to be understood" and that is Shaul, I find it telling that people who follow these false doctrine, ALMOST exclusively quote Shaul and twist the meaning of his words. I know you think different, we agree to disagree?

Paul is very plain and easy to understand about many things. One of those is Galatians 5:2-4

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4​

Paul makes it very clear that if you are circumcised, you are cut off from Christ.

The law says that every male must be circumcised:

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3​

GOD says all of those who are not circumcised will be cut off from the people of GOD.

The uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14​

Which are you going to obey?

 

[letti]

What do you practice is it done in vain?Laws as a ritual will be of no use.Not without a heart that is right above all else.

 

[Hizikyah]

He did it for God. God used his suffering, Not because he sinned. People like you are dangerous. And many have walked away from God because of people who teach this dangerous thing you are trying to teach.


don;t you remember when the people asked Jesus who sinned, the blind person or his parents? It had nothing to do with sin, Jesus as much as said so.

Yes I agree the blind man did nothing, but that Yahweh may shine in him, however about Shaul we dont have any clue of the cause of his problems.

I do have to say about your comment "People like you are dangerous" if someone rejects yahweh because of His truth, its too bad but so be it. Yahweh says He hates soothsayers, I will not be a soothsayer. When ALL the prophets told the people to return to Yahweh or they would be killed and their children put into slavery were they "dangerous" in your opinion? Should they have instead siad a nice message so the people would "still do the will of God?" Even thought the prophets were calling the people back to Yahweh because they were NOT DOING HIS WILL. They hated what Isayah said so bad they sawed him in half, and all he was doing is speaking Yahweh's words that COULD return them to Yahweh. So who is really dangerous? Those who call the people to Yahweh or those who find ways to go way from Yahweh? Are my words spoken in perfect gentlenesws at all times, no. But I stick to Scripture. Few will enter in to Yahweh's kingdom, this used to bother me however I got over this years ago. Yahshua Himself said He didnt pray for the world but only thos who His Father had given Him.

Yahchanan 17:9, "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours."

 

[Elin]

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity to the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

And I want to point out that the word "to," in blue has also been added, and changes the whole meaning, from "the Law" being in apposition to the"enmity," to being the object of the enmity.

enmity is:Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The opposition to yahweh's instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.

No, you added the word "to" to make it mean that.

"The Law" is not the object of the enmity, "the Law" is in apposition to the enmity.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

disobedience=curses / Law does not = curses

Law does not equal curses, but being under law certainly does.

Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:26

As many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. Galatians 3:10-11​

 

[Hizikyah]

Paul is very plain and easy to understand about many things. One of those is Galatians 5:2-4

Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4​

Paul makes it very clear that if you are circumcised, you are cut off from Christ.

The law says that every male must be circumcised:

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3​

GOD says all of those who are not circumcised will be cut off from the people of GOD.

The uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant. Genesis 17:14​

Which are you going to obey?

You ignore most of my post, cut a piece out, post a verse that is testifying against "justification by Law" which I never preach and act like im on that side of the debate. Yeah, you have done this more than twice to me. I see that it allows you to put the verses I qouted in with this false box, but how do you reconcile that? The same man wrote what you just quoted and some of what i quoted eariler. Until you can understand the semmetry between what you posted and Romans 3:31 and EVERY OTHER VERSE I HAVE POSTED HERE, any debate between us on the topic of obedience/Law/Commandments/Instruction will continue to be fruitless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I agree the blind man did nothing, but that Yahweh may shine in him, however about Shaul we dont have any clue of the cause of his problems.

Yes we do.

He was stoned because of his preaching the word of God
He was imprisoned for the same
He was shipwrecked in doing Gods
His thorn in the flesh was not because of SIn, But to keep him humble.

Do you even study the word?

I do have to say about your comment "People like you are dangerous" if someone rejects yahweh because of His truth, its too bad but so be it. Yahweh says He hates soothsayers, I will not be a soothsayer. When ALL the prophets told the people to return to Yahweh or they would be killed and their children put into slavery were they "dangerous" in your opinion?

This was speaking to Israel in regards to Lev 26. The prophet was warning the people. Not US!

Should they have instead siad a nice message so the people would "still do the will of God?" Even thought the prophets were calling the people back to Yahweh because they were NOT DOING HIS WILL. They hated what Isayah said so bad they sawed him in half, and all he was doing is speaking Yahweh's words that COULD return them to Yahweh. So who is really dangerous? Those who call the people to Yahweh or those who find ways to go way from Yahweh? Are my words spoken in perfect gentlenesws at all times, no. But I stick to Scripture. Few will enter in to Yahweh's kingdom, this used to bother me however I got over this years ago. Yahshua Himself said He didnt pray for the world but only thos who His Father had given Him.

Yahchanan 17:9, "I pray for them. I do not pray for the world, but for those whom You have given Me; for they are Yours."

That is not what is dangerous. What is dangerous is people who suffer for God not because of sin, being told by you they are suffering because of sin. And they actually believe it. I mean why Try? I am doing everything God wants me to. And I get sick, Or lose a loved one, Or get jailed. And you say it is because of sin. If I believe you, I would walk away to.