What Laws are still valid to christians

[Elin]

Take "to" out also, verse 16 still says the OPPISITION was abolished not the INSTRUCTIONS.

No, it does not.

You haven't considered and addressed the grammatical construction whereby "the Law" is in apposition to the enmity,
and not the object of the enmity.

It's not about hermeneutics, it's about grammatical construction.

In "George, the plumber," plumber is in apposition to George, it is not the object of George.

In "destroying the enmity, the law with its commandments," the law is in apposition to the enmity,
not the object of the enmity.

It's a matter of grammatical construction, not hermeneutics.

 

[vic1980]

Only if we look at it and interpret it correctly.

The OT people who obeyed God and did his will. was it because they worried about following the law? or because they understood grace and kept their eyes on what God wanted them to do.

The people worried about obeying the law failed and continued to fail.

The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold

Luke 1

5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

God bless...

 

[Elin]

I agree, Would you also agree then that:
from the foundation of the creation until the end there is a progression going on with understanding and principles being built upon the foundation first set until the culmination of Gods plan is completed.

I don't want to assume what you mean, so could you be a little more specific.

 

[Elin]

This is my topic concering Shaul, andit does not say how it originated, it says it is allowed to continuse the keep Shaul humbled before Yahweh. THE ORIGIN IS NOT STATED.

It could have been an eye disease.

Nevertheless, it was given to keep him humble because of his exceedingly great revelations
from Christ Jesus personally.

To me what is dangerous is allowing people to contiue to walk off the cliff,

There is no off-the-cliff walking if the Holy Spirit indwells them, because he will not allow it.

Off-thecliff walking is not the problem.
If the Holy Spirit does not indwell them, it does not matter how well they keep the law,
it is profitless to them.

For "only faith in Jesus Christ expressing itself through love matters (Gal 5:6)."

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Birth of John the Baptist Foretold

Luke 1

5There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

God bless...

Not sure what this is supposed to mean.

What does the passage say?

The walking in commands (they were doing Gods will)

Does it say they followed the law? No.. All it says that they walked in his commands.

I know many people who do this. who do not even think of the law.So your point (if there was one) is lost through experience.

 

[Elin]

I see where you're coming from, but your descriptions are confusing. I still don't agree with your train of thought, even though I understand your definitions. That was redundant. sorry.
The only change to the law is the administrator. (Our Messiah) The words haven't been changed for God doesn't change what He has ordained from the beginning. If I read you right, you are saying the law changed because of the change of the tribe. I'm saying the Priesthood changed hands,

First of all, there is no "administrator" of the Law in Scripture.
There is only the giver of Law in Scripture.

Moses was the Lawgiver of the OT Law.

Likewise, Jesus is not an "administrator" of the Law, for there is no such thing in Scripture.
Jesus is the Lawgiver of the NT law, which sets aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40),
which fulfills (accomplishes) the Law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
but has no curse attached for imperfect obedience (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10),
which is a huge difference for the people of God.

Without the curse for imperfect obedience which fails to do "every word" (Dt 27:26),
it is not the Mosaic Law.

Secondly, the text states that the law was based on the priesthood in the order of Aaron (Heb 11:12),
which prescribed that Aaron and his descendants only would be priests,
with the firstborn son of each generation being the High Priest.

When the basis of the law (the priesthood in the order of Aaron's descendants) was changed (Heb 7:11),
the law had to be changed.

The text of Heb goes on to clearly explain what and how it was changed.
It was "set aside because it was weak and useless" to obtain righteousness (Heb 7:18-19)

The case is carried forward into chap 8, where since the law was set aside, the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant
based on the law, was thereby made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

This is the revelation given (spoken) by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
which you are not reckoning with.

which was the plan from the beginning because Christ created all things. Colossians 1. The Words that came out of God's mouth to Moses never changed, and there is nothing in the Bible that says it did. God intended the law to be what it is today by putting it in place (to the detail) during the time of Moses.

That claim is contrary to the revelation of the Son spoken in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), through the writers of the NT.

And that is the revelation with which you have not reckoned.

 

[homwardbound]

ONly one following yahweh;s Spirit may do anything of Yahweh;s righteous will.

But you did not answer the question:

Originally Posted by Hizikyah

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you (to everybody here)? The seed that follows directions of Yahweh or the seed that fights those who follow directions of Yahweh?

The seed of God's love given to us through Son by belief, I received and now see
By and from God through the resurrected Christ
Love God's type is the fulfilling of all commands, and no flesh can ever perform this type of love as shown in 1 Cor. 13
Now that answers your ? I know what UI am and have been baptized for in the Spirit of God, and have nothing but thanks and praises for God through Son

 

[eternally-gratefull]

First of all, there is no "administrator" of the Law in Scripture.
There is only the giver of Law in Scripture.

Moses was the Lawgiver of the OT Law.

Likewise, Jesus is not an "administrator" of the Law, for there is no such thing in Scripture.
Jesus is the Lawgiver of the NT law, which sets aside the Mosaic law (Heb 7:18-19),
replacing it with the law of Christ (1Co 9:21; Jn 13:34; Mt 22:37-40),
which fulfills (accomplishes) the Law (Mt 22:40; Ro 13:8-10),
but has no curse attached for imperfect obedience (Dt 27:26; Gal 3:10),
which is a huge difference for the people of God.

Without the curse for imperfect obedience which fails to do "every word" (Dt 27:26),
it is not the Mosaic Law.

Secondly, the text states that the law was based on the priesthood in the order of Aaron (Heb 11:12),
which prescribed that Aaron and his descendants only would be priests,
with the firstborn son of each generation being the High Priest.

When the basis of the law (the priesthood in the order of Aaron's descendants) was changed (Heb 7:11),
the law had to be changed.

The text of Heb goes on to clearly explain what and how it was changed.
It was "set aside because it was weak and useless" to obtain righteousness (Heb 7:18-19)

The case is carried forward into chap 8, where since the law was set aside, the Sinaitic (Old) Covenant
based on the law, was thereby made obsolete (Heb 8:13).

This is the revelation given (spoken) by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2) through the NT writers,
which you are not reckoning with.


That claim is contrary to the revelation of the Son spoken in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), through the writers of the NT.

And that is the revelation with which you have not reckoned.

amen. I think that says it all!

[SUP]18 [/SUP]For on the one hand there is an annulling of the former commandment because of its weakness and unprofitableness, [SUP]19 [/SUP]for the law made nothing perfect; on the other hand, there is the bringing in of a better hope, through which we draw near to God.

God annulled the law. because no one could be righteous by or through it..

No one could even be made right by the arronic priesthood. Jesus came in the order of a priest before the law. Because his plan of eternal life was before the law. People were rightious followers of God before the law was given. They did not need the law.

The law had one purpose. To make every eye see and every head bow, and know that they are rightly condemned, and thus be lead by the "schoolmaster" to Christ.

Why people want to follow the very thing which all it can do is condemn us, And think they are righteous followers of God because they follow it, I will never understand!

 

[homwardbound]

What most people don't understand is that was the intent from the beginning, that it is supposed to be the tool to kill. If it wasn't then Christ's death would mean nothing to us. Where we go wrong is that we are to use, and study the law to die daily. That's why the law is Holy and Good. It's the Word of God. With all the rhetoric concerning the law, others are saying that it was abolished, and done way with. I think it's very sad that people do that. To follow the precepts of the will of God, show that we care about Him and love Him. We aren't justified by it, but the commandment is to love Him by adhering to the teaching of the Law. Can we do it perfectly? No! But we should understand the principles of His Holy will. We are to use it to see where we stand, and no matter how good we are at following those commandments, we still fall short. That doesn't mean we should give up because of His grace. If we put the law down, and defame its purpose just to say we are no longer under it, we improperly place it, by replacing it. It has it's purpose to teach us about Jesus, our Father and the temptations that even Jesus faced. Jesus resisted the devil by the writings of the Old Testament. It shows us our carnal nature, and more. It's the Word of God! Why would we ever think it's a bad thing, and say that Jesus abolished it when He said just the opposite?

John 5:46-47 (KJV)
[SUP]46 [/SUP]For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
[SUP]47 [/SUP]But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

understood and it all boils down to this, and that is one's motive is it not. otherwise he would not have talked abut those that work iniquity, for their own gain and say he never knew them right?

 

[homwardbound]

Romans 8:1, "Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Yahshua Messiah, who do not walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit."

1 Yahchanan 2:6, "He who says he abides in Him, is himself also obligated to walk exactly as He walked."

Any can say He is in me I am in Him, but is it really so accroding to Scripture?

CONTEXT of Romans 8:

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

All roads to the kingdom of Yahweh lead to:

Revelation 14:12, "lIn this manner are the saints purified--by keeping the Laws of Yahweh, in conformity with the faith in Yahshua"

Revelation 12:17, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went to make war with those who forsook her seed; her seed being those who keep the Laws of Yahweh, and have the testimony of Yahshua Messiah."

Which seed are you? The seed that follows directions or the seed that fights those who follow directions?

And the only way anyone can walk as he walked is by the Spirit of God only is this true or false? Being born again by God from God that starts out in belief to God and standing firm inn that belief.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

GOD only unconditionally promised to give the land forever to 4 people: Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Christ. All others inhabited the land based solely on obedience.

Not so.

Gen 12 : [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.”

Gen 15: [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

Gen 17: [SUP]4 [/SUP]“As for Me, behold, My covenant is with you, and you shall be a father of many nations. [SUP]5 [/SUP]No longer shall your name be called Abram, but your name shall be Abraham; for I have made you a father of many nations. [SUP]6 [/SUP]I will make you exceedingly fruitful; and I will make nations of you, and kings shall come from you. [SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.”

In all of these you will notice the same thing.

1. God said I will give this to you ( a one way covenant, He did not set any conditions on this covenant)
2. It was given to ALL of abrahams descendants (through Isaac and jacob)
3. The gift of God to abraham and his descendants was an ETERNAL aqreement. meaning it would never end.


If we then look to the moasic law and what God said. we also notice something very important.

1. God confirmed his covenant with abraham, The land he was sending them to belong to them and all their offspring.
2. God made provisions to them being able to enjoy the land which rightly belonged to them.

if, on the one hand, they walked in his statutes and obeyed his commands. he owuld bless them, their land, and their children, they will live in peace. have rain for their crops. have no enemies, and live joyfull lives.

if on the other hand, if they walk contrary to God, and did not heed his commands. a set of things would happen. the final punishment being complete removal from the land until they repented.

but look at the language, and be not fooled.

1. he always called it their land no matter what. The land belonged to them whether they enjoyed it, lived in it, or were taken from it.
2. When the enemy were in their land, he did not give it to the enemy to possess as their land, They were always the people who would live in the land because of Israels sin, but the land still belonged to Isreal.
3. when they came in, They would tear down their (Israels) High Places, Live in their (Israels) land, etc etc.
4. If israel would repent, Admit the sin of their own, and their fathers. And turn back to God. God would remove the foregners who enslaved them, Punish the foreigners who treated them badly. Returns them to their land, And if then they would heed his voice and follow his commands. All of th epromises made for them doing this would be kept.

why? God will remember the covenant he made with the fathers (abraham Isaac and jacob) and remember the land.

The covenant still stands, because forever, and eternity has not yet come.




The problem with your reasoning is that GOD would never bring them back to the land in unbelief and disobedience. Yet that is the state we currently find them in.[/QUOTE]

 

[homwardbound]

You obviously don't give much credence to what Paul says. Those under the law are under a curse. Those who don't follow the spirit via faith are under the law.

Actually of the flesh still, not seeing their death to self in the death of Christ, to truly see the new life God came to give us through the cross of Christ, in the resurrection of in the Spirit.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[homwardbound]

Isayah 24:1-6, "Behold, Yahweh makes the earth empty and makes it waste, perverts the face of it and scatters abroad its inhabitants; And it will be: as with the people, so with the priest; as with the servant, so with his owner; as with the maid, so with her mistress; as with the buyer, so with the seller; as with the lender, so with the borrower; as with him who takes usury, so with him who gives usury to him: The land will be utterly emptied and utterly plundered, for Yahweh has spoken this word. The earth mourns and fades away, the world mourns and fades away, and the haughty people of the earth languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants of it, because they have transgressed the Laws, changed the ordinance, and broken the everlasting covenant. Because of this, the curse has devoured the earth, and they who dwell therein are desolate; therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left."

For the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it.
_________________________________





Luke 24:25, "Then He said to them: O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken!"

All Laws point to God's Love and Mercy, and has been not seen this way in Love and Mercy
Matthew 9:13 But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance

 

[homwardbound]

You consistently twist Shaul's words at every chance. There is only ONE writer in all the Scriptures that is being singled out as "hard to be understood" and that is Shaul, I find it telling that people who follow these false doctrine, ALMOST exclusively quote Shaul and twist the meaning of his words. I know you think different, we agree to disagree?

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against; bitterly opposed to, Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Only the Spiritually minded person can even subject themself to Yahweh's Law, PERIOD.

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity to the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The oppisition to yahweh;s instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.

Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.

Romans 8:6-8, "For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against Yahweh; for it his not subject to the Law of Yahweh, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are of the flesh cannot please Yahweh."

Again:

"I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts"

And that is God's Spiritual Love and Mercy is it not? Thanks

 

[Elin]

I mostly agree with you here. You're right about what the sign points to, and how that sign is in our hearts as well.
I still maintain that the covenant of circumcision and the commandment was never done away by Jesus.

This comes down to belief or unbelief in the whole NT as God-breathed.

It comes down to belief or unbelief of the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the writers of the NT, as the light in which all Scripture is to be understood.

In the NT, circumcision as a sign of the covenant has been replaced with baptism as the sign
of the New Covenant

"In Christ you were also circumcised, in the putting off of the sinful nature/flesh (by the death in baptism), not with a circumcision done by the hands of men but with the circumcision done by the hands of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith, by the power of God, who raised him from the dead." (Col 2:11-12)

And as I have stated many times, He encouraged the following of the Law. The fact that
He never bothered to change it Himself tells me it's still applicable.

You might want to take a look at Mt 5:23-47, 12:7-8, 19:9, 21:23-27, chp 23.

 

[Elin]

Take "to" out also, verse 16 still says the OPPISITION was abolished not the INSTRUCTIONS.

Well spoken. My thoughts exactly

You got that part right!

 

[homwardbound]

I dont know everything Shaul did, he did say he was still fighting sin, and it could have been the effect of past sin left to linger in him as a reminder. IDK for sure, again we dont know all of what he did and we dont even know the specifics of what he asked to be removed form Him when Yahweh said no and that His strength is made perfect in weakness.

Also, take a newborn for example, they arent yet sinners yet at times are born with cancer or disease etc, are we to believe Yahweh just chooses to have children born defored at times just because. NO, the sins of the world, generation after generation cause this, (your might hate this one, and the point is not to get into a food debate) one ounce of pork a day can raise the chance of pancreatic cancer by 20%, what if you have 3 generations of pork eaters, will the DNA of the 4th have an increased chance of cancer? How about STDs or alcohol abuse? Will this effect the DNA of future generations with curses? Yes all these will.

"to the third and fourth generation"

Again:

Proverbs 26:2, "As a fluttering sparrow, or a flying swallow will alight, so a curse causeless will not come."

Also does Isayah 24:1-6 even register to you? Im not fully sure of your stance because you havent fully stated your view to me, just bit and pieces , and a comment here and there about my views or lack of addressing Lev26. On a point by point basis do you agree with my views and again what about Isayah 24:1-6 (really v5)

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

And Paul suffered in the flesh, and so have I, have you? So to suffer in the flesh is it a good thing or not? whether one has sinned or not read 1 cor 5 put that man out so that what he will what? so that what he might be what? And does not God disciple us to know truth in belief in God, trusting God in all things knowing that all things work towards the good of God?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Gen 12 : [SUP]7 [/SUP]Then the Lord appeared to Abram and said, “To your descendants I will give this land.”

You're ignoring that Paul said in Galatians:

Now to Abraham and to his descendant the promises were spoken. It does not say, “and to descendants,” as concerning many, but as concerning one, “and to your descendant,” who is Christ. Galatians 3:16​

GOD made this same unconditional promise to Isaac and Jacob; that he would give the land to them and to Christ. No one else.

 

[homwardbound]

So if a human fornicates and catches an STD is that not a curse?

To live by and in the flesh is a curse that came from Adam and Eve past on to all that are in the flesh, and is why Christ came to give us new life in the Spirit of God through the cross that he went to for us all. Just not all believe this as a finality and be freed to love as God does

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The problem with your reasoning is that GOD would never bring them back to the land in unbelief and disobedience. Yet that is the state we currently find them in.

just realised I skipped this in my last response.

Look at the state they are in.

1. The enemy still in in their land.
2. it is still mostly dessert, not a land flowing with milk and honey
3. There capitol city is split into three parts
4. their temple mount doe snot belong to them (their high places are still waste)
5. They still are not following God. thus worry about their children, No peace.

What we see is prophesy begining to be fulfilled. Not yet complete. he said this would happen. we should not be fooled by it, But be in joy of it. We do live in the last days, What glory!