What Laws are still valid to christians

[Elin]

When Paul wrote 2 Tim 3:16, many of books in the so-called new testament were not written yet.

Which does not alter the fact that the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
and recorded by the NT writers, is superior to the revelation spoken in the past days of the OT.

The NT is God's completed revelation and the light in which all Scripture is to be understood.

What I don't understand is why Paul made his letters so difficult to understand.

Did you expect God's wisdom to be on the level of man's wisdom?

Peter said his dear brother, the holy apostle Paul, wrote with the wisdom God gave him (2Pe 3:15),
and not with the wisdom of man.

Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
I don't see any implication that there are changes to the law.

Agreed. . .there are none in Heb 1:1-2.

So go to where they are revealed in Heb 7, 8, 10, as presented in my earlier post to you.

In fact, Hebrews 2:13 quoted Isaiah 8 where verse 20

reads - to the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.

Yes, Isa 8:20 reads as you state.

And Ge 1:1 reads "In the beginning. . ."

Did Heb 2:13 quote either Ge 1:1 or Isa 8:20?

How lame can you get?

And your point (other than misrepresentation)?

When I said circumstances allowed I meant circumstances God provided. For example, no sacrifices could be made when the Israelites were captured in Babylon.

Sacrifice for sin is always in force. Animal sacrifice is not allowed because the temple is no more and will not be.

So the only reason the law requiring animal sacrifice for sin is not in force is because there is no Temple?

What about that part of the NT where Jesus appeared once, for all, at the end of the ages, to do away with sin
by the sacrifice of himself (Heb 9:26),

the part where he was sacrificed once, for all (Heb 9:25, 28, 10:10),

the part where he ascended into heaven now to appear for us in God's presence (Heb 9:24),
living always to intercede for those who come to God through him (Heb 7:25),
and not through animal sacrifices for sin whose requirement is still in force.

You know nothing Biblical of the Christ Jesus if you believe the laws requiring animal sacrifice
for sin are still in force after the sacrifice of the Christ Jesus once for all to do away with sin.

 

[Elin]

New here so pardon me for not knowing where you (all) are from.

How's about your reviewing the whole thread so it all doesn't have to be repeated to you. . .

 

[homwardbound]

The claim that Jesus left a last will and testament is simply falsehood and myth.

The titles Old Testament and New Testament come from Jerome's translation of the bible into Latin, which is called the Vulgate. When Jerome translated the New Testament into Latin, he used the word testamentum instead of a Latin word for covenant (pactum or foedus). By not remaining faithful to the original text, he altered its meaning by introducing the Roman concept of a last will and testament into the bible, something that was foreign to Hebrew culture. Luther, the King James translators, and others continued Jerome's perversion of scripture in their translations, and it wasn't until the latter part of the 19th century that this error began to be corrected to make translations conform to what the text actually means.

So the bible should actually be called the Old and New Covenants, because that is what the original text says, and covenants are the only way that GOD deals, and has ever dealt, with mankind.

Which tribe was Jesus from?

 

[homwardbound]

No, but the 39 (or more) books were written under what GOD called the old covenant, and the 27 were written under what he called the new covenant.

So what is the New Covenant? Or is it actually the Abrahamic Covenant fulfilled?

 

[homwardbound]

Every law of God's is valid for conforming one's life to a holy standard. God did not give his laws for our undoing but for our good. If you want a holy and blessed life, then observe God's laws more closely. If you don't, then he's not going to make you.

so tell me please what are God's Laws and how can one follow and do them, being in unredeemed flesh?

 

[homwardbound]

Would you show me where He said so in the Bible? Far as I know Jeremiah 31:31 didn't define which books are old.
On the other hand, what if (and only if) the new contradicts the old? Would it be God testing us whether we love him with all our heart and with all our soul?

As a whole, there is no contradictions anywhere. But as man interprets it one this way and another that way is where the contradictions come from. All scripture as a whole is Spiritually discerned by God for the ones that he has received, by his Mercy through Son, Christ. The Abrahamic covenant is still in place to this day, by Faith (belief) we are justified and go out doing God's works of God living through us, not just in us.
For a man does not take a lamp and hide it under the lampstand for no one to see. Rather he puts the lamp on the lampstand for all to see.
Christ is that lamp, and the Lampstand is one's mind thoughts.
So we after belief are asked to:
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Spirit of God and flesh, world thoughts is what is at war to win ones souls. World forces, where as God just loves:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

 

[homwardbound]

Circumcision was simply the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The sign of the new covenant in Christ Jesus is baptism.

now is that of the Spirit or water, which brings life the Spirit or water. One is for repentance to try to serve God and shows one they can't be perfect of themselves as Christ was perfect in flesh.
The other born a new of God by God in the resurrected Christ, we live by Faith and Love as God does in 1 Cor. 13:4-13
True or not? Thanks. Dead to flesh self, and alive to God in the Spirit of God, by God a free gift ot all those that believe God, yes?

 

[homwardbound]

Oh poor Timothy, what did Paul get you into?
Jokes aside, anywhere in the Bible saying Paul's greater than Abraham or Moses?

From God's view, no one is viewed by god better than another
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Ephesians 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[homwardbound]

Whats the prob. Law, there is no law. You don't think so, well what law did Abraham have, answer none. What law did Jacob have, answer none. What law do you have, answer none. What law do you chose that of your own or what you have been taught or the law that God puts in your heart once you have truly bee born again. Many say I give license for people to sin because I am against law. That is a lie, if you are truly born again, you hate sin and want nothing to with it. Doesn't mean you want sin, but can't stand it when you do. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the law was?

Actually the Law of Moses led me to my need in Christ, and through Christ I have been set free of stress, that continuously tries to take over again, through the thoughts of am I good enough, when only God is good, so I rest in God as he has called us to rest in him Hebrews 3 and 4

 

[homwardbound]

it gos to show, how small minded, we all are. with the new covenent, god can judge all wrong doings in history. ie wars(army killed for plunder.) lies that cause trouble for an other. the list gos on.etc
yet because of his grace, life gos on, because he know all hearts and minds. (no ware to run, no ware to hide, death comes to all). and why he is the king of kings.

god bless all

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• Micah 6:8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the Lord require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

 

[homwardbound]

John was greater than Moses. Paul is a citizen of the kingdom of heaven.

Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist. But the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11​

That is from a heavenly view in the kingdom, not an earthly view, where we are in this world and no longer of it. Thanks, for God is no respecter of persons here on earth for all have fallen short of the glory of God, and are in need of the Savior Christ where through Christ we are first forgiven by his death, and then From Father are raised anew in the Spirit of God in the resurrected Christ, justified in the Spirit, not flesh.
1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

 

[homwardbound]

The Bible says the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), and given through the writers of the NT, is greater than the revelation of the OT prophets.

The NT is God's completed revelation in which light all Scripture is to be understood.

As he did come to do what: Did he or did he not, scripture states so: does it not? read it all in context and see truth that sets us free to be one with Father through Christ, thanks
Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill

So did he do this as he said this:
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

So did this completion bring in a new Covenant, actually the reality of the original one, the Abrahamic Covenant that was made between God and Abraham 430 years before the Levitcal Law came in to play after the deliverance form the bondage of Egypt.
Hebrews 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Hebrews 9:16
For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.
Hebrews 9:17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

A new priesthood in the order:
Psalm 110:4 The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Hebrews 5:6 As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
Hebrews 5:10 Called of God an high priest after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 6:20 Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Hebrews 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Hebrews 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
Hebrews 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

 

[TheAristocat]

so tell me please what are God's Laws and how can one follow and do them, being in unredeemed flesh?

Every law in the Bible that comes from the mouth of God is one of God's laws. This includes those teachings of Jesus as well.

Deuteronomy 30:11, 14 Now what I am commanding you today is not too difficult for you or beyond your reach. [...] No, the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart so you may obey it.

If this were true of God's people then I think it should be true for us as his children. All those willing should at least give it the old college try. If it doesn't work out, then it's certainly no worse than persuading others not to follow his laws, am I right? Anywho, not everyone agrees with my interpretation. I understand that. Even some Messianic Jews do not go so far as I do and will still claim some of the laws no longer apply. But a tittle is a tittle. And a jot is a jot. They're pretty serious business according to God. Can't just throw them away on a whim. All heck'll break loose. And before you know it people will be wearing clothes of wool and linen.

 

[TheAristocat]

But seriously. I think this is one of those "lean not on your own understanding" situations (Proverbs 3:5-6). If God told me to strip and walk around town butt-naked for several years I would at least trust he had a good reason even if I didn't know what it was (Isaiah 20:3).

 

[Elin]

Circumcision was simply the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The sign of the new covenant in Christ Jesus is baptism.

now is that of the Spirit or water,

The one of Col 2:11-12.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Now the end [i.e., the point aimed at] of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of unfeigned faith;

from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talk; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm [as true].

But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully knowing that the law is not made for a righteous man,

but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:5-10

 

[homwardbound]

But seriously. I think this is one of those "lean not on your own understanding" situations (Proverbs 3:5-6). If God told me to strip and walk around town butt-naked for several years I would at least trust he had a good reason even if I didn't know what it was (Isaiah 20:3).

And this is where one better know Father's voice as Abraham it was what 29 years before he was positive of Father's voice. I mean at 15 years after the promised Child, he took it on his own accord to have Hagar. Flesh brother is flesh, and Spirit is Spirit.
It is clear to me, to be in belief of God that through the cross at the death of Christ is actually my death to self, so that I might see the resurrection as God planned for me in the Spirit of God, right here, right now, in the Spirit not flesh. Flesh dead Spirit alive. No sin can ever occur in Spirit of God, since all sin has and is right now condemned to flesh, by Christ at the cross
Philippians 3:10 that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death

 

[homwardbound]

The one of Col 2:11-12.

Thanks, obviously Holy Ghost Baptism, thanks
Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then Holy Ghost Baptism came, day of Pentecost, and is after the cross and resurrection and ascension, in order to send us, the believers the Holy Ghost, the same one that led Christ and the Apostles, is here still today, to teach and guide us personally into all truth that sets us free from worry, stress.

[h=3]Colossians 2:11-12[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [SUP]12 [/SUP]buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

 

[homwardbound]

Now the end [i.e., the point aimed at] of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of unfeigned faith;

from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talk; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm [as true].

But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully knowing that the law is not made for a righteous man,

but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:5-10

As is the fight of Flesh and Spirit of God still warring on to this very day
Galatians 4:29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
Galatians 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Galatians 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.

So if I reckon me to dead to flesh through the death of Christ, I shall be and thus made alive, by the operation of God, thanks

 

[john832]

Circumcision was simply the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The sign of the new covenant in Christ Jesus is baptism.

Really?

Physical circumcision was a type of the Spiritual circumcision that takes place in Christians...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It is much more than a sign of the Abrahamic covenant.