What Laws are still valid to christians
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C
I'd rather say contradiction comes from not understanding the whole truth of God or whole truth of the Bible.
(On the other hand, I have second thought about the whole Bible especially the new testament portion. I'm undecided and thus said "would it be God testing us whether we love him with all our heart and with all our soul?" Who knows, isn't trusting the whole Bible especially the new testament a big part of human tradition - whether this tradition is in line with the truth?)
God does not change, as far as I understand, when it comes to the various laws and covenants which he said everlasting. Jesus comes to fulfill the law so I guess He comes to tell us exactly what God's will is because we as a whole misunderstood Him but some ended up misunderstanding Jesus and for that matter Paul also - even now?
(On the other hand, I have second thought about the whole Bible especially the new testament portion. I'm undecided and thus said "would it be God testing us whether we love him with all our heart and with all our soul?" Who knows, isn't trusting the whole Bible especially the new testament a big part of human tradition - whether this tradition is in line with the truth?)
God does not change, as far as I understand, when it comes to the various laws and covenants which he said everlasting. Jesus comes to fulfill the law so I guess He comes to tell us exactly what God's will is because we as a whole misunderstood Him but some ended up misunderstanding Jesus and for that matter Paul also - even now?
M
Hebrews 9
7 But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8 The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle(foundation first set) was still functioning.
11 But when Christ came as high priest of the good things that are now already here,[a] he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not made with human hands, that is to say, is not a part of this creation.
(to lead up to the progression of his first coming)
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant,that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
24 For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence. 25 Nor did he enter heaven to offer himself again and again, the way the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood that is not his own.
26 Otherwise Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world.
But he has appeared once for all at the culmination of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.27 Just as people are destined to die once,and after that to face judgment,28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
(Leading up to the event when Gods plan for us here is completed)
In essence everything is a progression, from the beginning to the end, as opposed to a stagnate state, a leading up something in Gods plan and us as part of his purpose also participate in his will fulfilling his plan.
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C
There are many I thought they contradict each other but later found out they do not. Regarding circumcision, to tell you the truth, I'm seriously thinking about doing so, not to gain salvation, but because I believe in Him. Abraham believed in Him, and I guess saved, before he circumcised. So why don't I?
Paul's warning would be the reason not too. Paul was greater than either Abraham or Moses.
Behold, I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! And again I testify to every man who becomes circumcised, that he is under obligation to keep the whole law. You are estranged from Christ, you who are attempting to be justified by the law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4
Yep! All Scripture (2Tim 3:16).
If it is named "Old Testament" in the Scriptures, it is not "so-called," it is authoritatively named.
God's apostolic Church, the body of Christ.
Are you walking both sides of the street. . . or are you trying to understand?
The revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is given through the NT writers, is God's completed revelation, in whose light all Scripture is to be understood, and which reveals God's big changes in going from the Sinaitic Covenant to the New Covenant, some of which changes were presented to you earlier today.
When understood in the light of God's complete NT revelation, there are no contradictions.
The Mosaic laws did not depend on "circumstances" in the OT.
If they are still in force in the NT, they still don't.
So you're saying the Mosaic law requiring animal sacrifice for sin is still in force for Christians?
If it is named "Old Testament" in the Scriptures, it is not "so-called," it is authoritatively named.
God's apostolic Church, the body of Christ.
Are you walking both sides of the street. . . or are you trying to understand?
The revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), which is given through the NT writers, is God's completed revelation, in whose light all Scripture is to be understood, and which reveals God's big changes in going from the Sinaitic Covenant to the New Covenant, some of which changes were presented to you earlier today.
When understood in the light of God's complete NT revelation, there are no contradictions.
The Mosaic laws did not depend on "circumstances" in the OT.
If they are still in force in the NT, they still don't.
So you're saying the Mosaic law requiring animal sacrifice for sin is still in force for Christians?
It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convince you of the truth of the whole Bible as God's word.
No more than trusting gravity is a big part of human tradition.
And God also said he would change some of those everlasting laws and covenants (Jer 31:31-34).
God himself doesn't have to change in order to change a law or covenant.
No, the apostles as a whole did not end up misunderstanding Jesus.
And what they gave the church in their God-breathed writings are not a misunderstanding to any degree.
Any misunderstanding of Scripture today is the result of not considereing it in the light of God's complete revelation in the NT.
No more than trusting gravity is a big part of human tradition.
And God also said he would change some of those everlasting laws and covenants (Jer 31:31-34).
God himself doesn't have to change in order to change a law or covenant.
No, the apostles as a whole did not end up misunderstanding Jesus.
And what they gave the church in their God-breathed writings are not a misunderstanding to any degree.
Any misunderstanding of Scripture today is the result of not considereing it in the light of God's complete revelation in the NT.
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But v.11 was his first coming, not a progression to it.
Pardon me for being confused by the "progression" idea.
All time is progressison, so I'm not grasping your meaning regarding God's plan.
Are you referring to its being accomplished in stages?
The first stage of God's plan was his predestination of our adoption as sons.
His second stage to accomplish our adoption included pre-figures, or patterns, or "types" of the Savior and his work to accomplish our adoption as sons.
These we find throughout the OT; e.g., in David, Joseph, the sacrifices, regulations and rituals of the Levitical laws.
Would these be part of the "progressions" you speak of?
In the third stage comes the Savior his first time, to accomplish the part of his work which saves us from the wrath of God on our sin at the Final Judgment, gives us rebirth into new life and adoption as sons, establishes his Church, the body of Christ, and accomplishes its growth in sanctification.
And in the fourth stage comes the Savior his second time for the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection, as the final stage of our adoption as sons.
Is this anywhere close to what you are talking about?
Pardon me for being confused by the "progression" idea.
All time is progressison, so I'm not grasping your meaning regarding God's plan.
Are you referring to its being accomplished in stages?
The first stage of God's plan was his predestination of our adoption as sons.
His second stage to accomplish our adoption included pre-figures, or patterns, or "types" of the Savior and his work to accomplish our adoption as sons.
These we find throughout the OT; e.g., in David, Joseph, the sacrifices, regulations and rituals of the Levitical laws.
Would these be part of the "progressions" you speak of?
In the third stage comes the Savior his first time, to accomplish the part of his work which saves us from the wrath of God on our sin at the Final Judgment, gives us rebirth into new life and adoption as sons, establishes his Church, the body of Christ, and accomplishes its growth in sanctification.
And in the fourth stage comes the Savior his second time for the redemption of our bodies in the resurrection, as the final stage of our adoption as sons.
Is this anywhere close to what you are talking about?
This reminds me when we went round and round about the sins of Nadab and Abihu. Remember that? You keep me on my toes.
C
When Paul wrote 2 Tim 3:16, many of books in the so-called new testament were not written yet. The Bereans were not examining the 27 books to see if what Paul said was true, they were examining the so-called old testament. So-called old testament because here in Acts 17:11 said they were scriptures. Is there anywhere in the Bible saying the 39 books (or more) old testament?
The so called new testament - all I know is, they were put together by church leaders at some point in time. Put them in the Bereans hands they would do the same - examine the scriptures, yes the so-called old testament, to see if they were true. So why can't we do what the Bereans did now?
I understand. That's the reason I examine. What I don't understand is why Paul made his letters so difficult to understand.
Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
I don't see any implication that there are changes to the law. In fact, Hebrews 2:13 quoted Isaiah 8 where verse 20 reads - to the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
Does it mean no law = no light? And that Jesus is the light? And that Jesus was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God? And the Word spoke through Moses?
When I said circumstances allowed I meant circumstances God provided. For example, no sacrifices could be made when the Israelites were captured in Babylon.
Sacrifice for sin is always in force. Animal sacrifice is not allowed because the temple is no more and will not be.
The so called new testament - all I know is, they were put together by church leaders at some point in time. Put them in the Bereans hands they would do the same - examine the scriptures, yes the so-called old testament, to see if they were true. So why can't we do what the Bereans did now?
I understand. That's the reason I examine. What I don't understand is why Paul made his letters so difficult to understand.
Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
I don't see any implication that there are changes to the law. In fact, Hebrews 2:13 quoted Isaiah 8 where verse 20 reads - to the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, they have no light of dawn.
Does it mean no law = no light? And that Jesus is the light? And that Jesus was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God? And the Word spoke through Moses?
When I said circumstances allowed I meant circumstances God provided. For example, no sacrifices could be made when the Israelites were captured in Babylon.
Sacrifice for sin is always in force. Animal sacrifice is not allowed because the temple is no more and will not be.
K
Whats the prob. Law, there is no law. You don't think so, well what law did Abraham have, answer none. What law did Jacob have, answer none. What law do you have, answer none. What law do you chose that of your own or what you have been taught or the law that God puts in your heart once you have truly bee born again. Many say I give license for people to sin because I am against law. That is a lie, if you are truly born again, you hate sin and want nothing to with it. Doesn't mean you want sin, but can't stand it when you do. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the law was?
This reference to 2 Peter 3:16 is a red herring used by various law-cult types to make it look like nothing Paul says can be understood, so that it can be easily ignored in favor of exalting the law above Christ. Peter said that some things Paul wrote are difficult to understand, which is true. But the vast majority of what he wrote is very easy to understand; you just need spiritual eyes to see. Without those spiritual eyes the ignorant and unstable are easily made prey of by doctrines of demons.
It's not only implied, it's directly stated that the priesthood changed, and that when the priesthood changes, the law must change also because the priesthood is the foundation, or basis, for the law.
Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need is there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. ... For the law made nothing perfect. But on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope through which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-12, 19
Pray for spiritual eyes to see...
And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom that was given to him, as he does also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which there are some things hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, as they also do the rest of the scriptures. 2 Peter 3:15-16
It's not only implied, it's directly stated that the priesthood changed, and that when the priesthood changes, the law must change also because the priesthood is the foundation, or basis, for the law.
Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need is there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. ... For the law made nothing perfect. But on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope through which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-12, 19
Pray for spiritual eyes to see...
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it gos to show, how small minded, we all are. with the new covenent, god can judge all wrong doings in history. ie wars(army killed for plunder.) lies that cause trouble for an other. the list gos on.etc
yet because of his grace, life gos on, because he know all hearts and minds. (no ware to run, no ware to hide, death comes to all). and why he is the king of kings.
god bless all
yet because of his grace, life gos on, because he know all hearts and minds. (no ware to run, no ware to hide, death comes to all). and why he is the king of kings.
god bless all