What Laws are still valid to christians

[just-me]

Really?

Physical circumcision was a type of the Spiritual circumcision that takes place in Christians...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It is much more than a sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

Leviticus 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Ephesians 4:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I think these verses all fit together in the law of circumcision. I also like the verses that you presented.

 

[john832]

Now the end [i.e., the point aimed at] of the commandment is love out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of unfeigned faith;

from which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain talk; desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm [as true].

But we know that the law is good if a man use it lawfully knowing that the law is not made for a righteous man,

but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 1 Timothy 1:5-10

And I concur. Now the question is who are the lawless and DISOBEDIENT? And disobedient to WHAT?

 

[just-us-2]

Leviticus 12:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
Deuteronomy 10:16 (KJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked.
Ephesians 4:32 (KJV)
[SUP]32 [/SUP]And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

I think these verses all fit together in the law of circumcision. I also like the verses that you presented.

Physical circumcision means nothing:
Galatians 6:15 (CJB)
15 For neither being circumcised nor being uncircumcised matters; what matters is being a new creation.

The edifying aspect gets lost sometimes among professing Christians, because of uncircumcised hearts, which is a process for male and female. I see an awful lot of contributors to cc whose circumcision of their heart is MIA!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Really?

Physical circumcision was a type of the Spiritual circumcision that takes place in Christians...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It is much more than a sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The physical aspect was part of the abrahamic covenant for his line leading to Jesus (Israel) But meant nothing. The symbol it represents (schoolmaster) is the spiritual cleansing performed By God at the moment of salvation.

Todays symbol for the church is baptism. The physical represents the spiritual.

yet there are those who claim to not be circumcised is a sin. How can it be when it was not given to us? on the contrary. To not be baptised would be a sin, Because your disobaying a command given to the church. But neither baptism or circumcision done by the hands of men have anything to do with eternal life.

If your not saved, Circumcision just causes pain for medical reasons which are good in and of itself. but has no bearing on spiritual cleansing, And getting baptised just gets you wet for no reason.

 

[john832]

The physical aspect was part of the abrahamic covenant for his line leading to Jesus (Israel) But meant nothing. The symbol it represents (schoolmaster) is the spiritual cleansing performed By God at the moment of salvation.

Todays symbol for the church is baptism. The physical represents the spiritual.

yet there are those who claim to not be circumcised is a sin. How can it be when it was not given to us? on the contrary. To not be baptised would be a sin, Because your disobaying a command given to the church. But neither baptism or circumcision done by the hands of men have anything to do with eternal life.

If your not saved, Circumcision just causes pain for medical reasons which are good in and of itself. but has no bearing on spiritual cleansing, And getting baptised just gets you wet for no reason.

Sorry, but I disagree with the part about baptism...

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christ seems to think water baptism might be important.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, but I disagree with the part about baptism...

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christ seems to think water baptism might be important.

well, if you read what I said, You would know I think it is important also./ it is a sin to not follow God in baptism.

But gen 3: 15 is not talking about baptism, it is talking about the new birth. Scripture tells us, we are washed by the blood. Washed by the spiritual circumcision which is done by the Holy Spirit. that we are washed and renewed by the HS. Not by men placing us in water.

Saying baptism is essential for salvation is just as dangerous and against the gospel as saying one must be circumcised to be saved. They are both done by men, and both represent the cleansing done by God himself.

col 2: 11 - 12 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body 8of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, 12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

it is the work of God who baptizes us, Not the work of men. Your pastor did not raise jesus from the dead, he has no power to cleans you!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And I concur. Now the question is who are the lawless and DISOBEDIENT? And disobedient to WHAT?

The lawless are those who trample upon GOD's revealed will, which is faith and love that produce a clean conscience.

Being lawless doesn't mean being without law; it means not fearing GOD and setting aside his words.

 

[john832]

The lawless are those who trample upon GOD's revealed will, which is faith and love that produce a clean conscience.

Being lawless doesn't mean being without law; it means not fearing GOD and setting aside his words.

We are in agreeement on this.

 

[royalscot]

23Before the coming of this faith,[17] we were held in custody under the law, locked up until the faith that was to come would be revealed. 24So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian.Galatians 3
custody under the law . some form of trap.

4But when the set time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5to redeem those under the law, that we might receive adoption to sonship.[19] 6Because you are his sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, “Abba,[20] Father.” 7So you are no longer a slave, but God’s child; and since you are his child, God has made you also an heir.Galatians 4

even paul has said, law has been changed to, he sent the spirit into our hearts etc

 

[Elin]

Circumcision was simply the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The sign of the new covenant in Christ Jesus is baptism.

Really?

Physical circumcision was a type of the Spiritual circumcision that takes place in Christians...

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

It is much more than a sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

Well, actually, OT circumcision symbolized total consecration to God, and as such
was given as the sign of the Abrahamic covenant of Ge 17, which was conditioned on
total consecration ("As for me," v.4; "As for you," v.9).

Therefore, God describes those who are not consecrated to him as having uncircumcised
hearts (Lev 26:41; Jer 9:26; Eze 44:7, 9).

Paul continues this meaning and usage of circumcised and uncircumcised hearts in the NT.

Based on its OT meaning of total consecration to God, and its usage as the sign of the Abrahamic covenant, which placed one in covenant relationship with God,
Paul links it to baptism, the sign of the New Covenant, which places in covenant relationship with God those who believe in Christ Jesus.

So circumcised and uncircumcised hearts have the same meaning in both the OT and the NT,
and that meaning is the reason it was the sign of the Abrahamic Covenant,
and is linked to baptism, the sign of the New Covenant.

 

[royalscot]

the passover meal, could not be eaten with a jewish family, unless he was circumcised.( gentile visitor)
must have been call for concern with the jewish christain.

 

[Elin]

Are you saying the laws regarding the sacrifice of animals are still in force?

Yuppers. As well as the grain offerings. Studying God's laws has really helped me to understand the Bible. For example, there are Christians who believe that unbelievers can't please God with acts of charity because they first need to become God's children. Only then can they please him. However...

Acts 10:4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

Leviticus 2:9 He shall take out the memorial portion from the grain offering and burn it on the altar as a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

So what does it mean to come up as a memorial offering? It gets God's attention. It pleases him.

Cornelius was not a Jew.

But he believed and submitted to the divine revelation given to the Jews as much as it applied to Gentiles, and believed in the promise of a Messiah to come.

His actions were from that faith, and were accepted by God (Ac 10:34-35; Ro 2;10-11), as a pleasing aroma like in the memorial offerings.

So where do you find the laws for animal sacrifices still in force?

 

[homwardbound]

And I concur. Now the question is who are the lawless and DISOBEDIENT? And disobedient to WHAT?

No flesh actions, reactions shall ever please God, these are the Lawless the selfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And is why we are to be born again in the Spirit from God and by God a free gift to us through the cross, not just the death, ore important the resurrection.

 

[homwardbound]

Sorry, but I disagree with the part about baptism...

Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Christ seems to think water baptism might be important.

Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism,
For me the one Baptism is the Spirit Baptism from on high, where we can do nothing without the Spirit of God living in and through us today.
Acts 1:5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Then came Pentecost and we today by belief in the death of Christ for our sins to be dealt with, taken away, then by the operation of God we are thus:
[h=3]Colossians 2:10-15[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [SUP]11 [/SUP]in whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ: [SUP]12 [/SUP]buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. [SUP]13 [/SUP]And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; [SUP]14 [/SUP]blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
[SUP]15 [/SUP]and having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

After the cross, resurrection and ascension, we are sent the Holy Ghost of promise to teach us error from truth and be set free in Father
Ephesians 1:13
in whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

So let's not :
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

So then who is our teacher, man or God?

[h=3]Hebrews 8:11-13[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]11 [/SUP]and they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. [SUP]13 [/SUP]In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[homwardbound]

the passover meal, could not be eaten with a jewish family, unless he was circumcised.( gentile visitor)
must have been call for concern with the jewish christain.

If brought up under Law it is not easy to see the fulfillment of the Law being done in Christ the only one that could ever do it, and thus see by belief in the finished work of Christ at the cross for all human kind, if one will believe it is all God and none of themselves ever, will see new life in trusting the Living God, by the resurrected Christ
[h=3]Philippians 3:1-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3 [/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

 

[royalscot]

If brought up under Law it is not easy to see the fulfillment of the Law being done in Christ the only one that could ever do it, and thus see by belief in the finished work of Christ at the cross for all human kind, if one will believe it is all God and none of themselves ever, will see new life in trusting the Living God, by the resurrected Christ
Philippians 3:

3 Finally, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe. [SUP]2 [/SUP]Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision. [SUP]3[/SUP]For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh. [SUP]4 [/SUP]Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. [SUP]7 [/SUP]But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [SUP]9 [/SUP]and be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

i seem to be missing, your points, homwardbound on both , your quotes, on both, of my quotes to the topic of this forum.
can you tell me what you are saying to me. or to the topic.

 

[chubbena]

It is the work of the Holy Spirit to convince you of the truth of the whole Bible as God's word.


No more than trusting gravity is a big part of human tradition.


And God also said he would change some of those everlasting laws and covenants (Jer 31:31-34).

God himself doesn't have to change in order to change a law or covenant.


No, the apostles as a whole did not end up misunderstanding Jesus.

And what they gave the church in their God-breathed writings are not a misunderstanding to any degree.

Any misunderstanding of Scripture today is the result of not considereing it in the light of God's complete revelation in the NT.

Do you ever search objectively how the 27 new testament books were put together or do you just believe because someone told you it's the Bible and if you don't believe in the whole Bible you are not a Christian or not saved?

Jer 31:31 - Please read the whole chapter and show me where God said his law would change. But of course a heart of stone would never be able to accept his law.

What I said is, misunderstanding Jesus would lead to misunderstand the apostles. Any misunderstanding of scripture today is the result of not going back to read Jesus teaching when there is doubt.

 

[chubbena]

Circumcision was simply the sign of the Abrahamic covenant.

The sign of the new covenant in Christ Jesus is baptism.

Circumcision was a must in the Old. Are you saying baptism is a must in the New?

 

[chubbena]

This reference to 2 Peter 3:16 is a red herring used by various law-cult types to make it look like nothing Paul says can be understood, so that it can be easily ignored in favor of exalting the law above Christ. Peter said that some things Paul wrote are difficult to understand, which is true. But the vast majority of what he wrote is very easy to understand; you just need spiritual eyes to see. Without those spiritual eyes the ignorant and unstable are easily made prey of by doctrines of demons.

And regard the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as also our dear brother Paul wrote to you, according to the wisdom that was given to him, as he does also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which there are some things hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable distort to their own destruction, as they also do the rest of the scriptures. 2 Peter 3:15-16​

It's not only implied, it's directly stated that the priesthood changed, and that when the priesthood changes, the law must change also because the priesthood is the foundation, or basis, for the law.

​Thus if perfection was through the Levitical priesthood, for on the basis of it the people received the law, what further need is there for another priest to arise according to the order of Melchizedek and not said to be according to the order of Aaron? For when the priesthood changes, of necessity there is a change of the law also. ... For the law made nothing perfect. But on the other hand, there is the introduction of a better hope through which we draw near to God. Hebrews 7:11-12, 19​

Pray for spiritual eyes to see...

Who distorted Paul's letters to their own destruction, as they all do to the rest of the scripture? Isn't those who twisted Paul's words to say the law is no more?
Priesthood changed - perhaps one has to define what law we are talking about here - Ceremonial or moral.

 

[john832]

No flesh actions, reactions shall ever please God, these are the Lawless the selfish!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And is why we are to be born again in the Spirit from God and by God a free gift to us through the cross, not just the death, ore important the resurrection.

Hmmm, only takes one verse to refute your opinion...


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.