What Laws are still valid to christians

[eternally-gratefull]

Do you ever search objectively how the 27 new testament books were put together or do you just believe because someone told you it's the Bible and if you don't believe in the whole Bible you are not a Christian or not saved?

Jer 31:31 - Please read the whole chapter and show me where God said his law would change. But of course a heart of stone would never be able to accept his law.

What I said is, misunderstanding Jesus would lead to misunderstand the apostles. Any misunderstanding of scripture today is the result of not going back to read Jesus teaching when there is doubt.

the law never did end.

1. It never showed them how to do right
2. it never gave them the ability to get to heaven.
3. it ALWAYS was intended to expose their sin, expose their need of grace, and expose them to the way God would redeem mankind to himself.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Circumcision was a must in the Old. Are you saying baptism is a must in the New?

It never saved anyone in the NT, Just like baptism (water) will never save anyone in the NT. They were always, and still are, signs.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Who distorted Paul's letters to their own destruction, as they all do to the rest of the scripture? Isn't those who twisted Paul's words to say the law is no more?
Priesthood changed - perhaps one has to define what law we are talking about here - Ceremonial or moral.

better yet. We should decide which law could ever save? Since scripture said the ceremonial law could not save, And scripture states emphatically the moral law could never make us rightious. Then we can logically conclude that both would be in effect. And not one or the other.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hmmm, only takes one verse to refute your opinion...


1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

Sorry, but this falls far short of refuting his position.

We ask - We are those children of God. Not people who are not children of God. they could ask till they are blue in the face. but would never get heard.

Because we do this. Of course. Those born of God do do his commands. Thus the "we" and "obey" are the same people. those born of God by faith in his finished work on the cross.

 

[chubbena]

Whats the prob. Law, there is no law. You don't think so, well what law did Abraham have, answer none. What law did Jacob have, answer none. What law do you have, answer none. What law do you chose that of your own or what you have been taught or the law that God puts in your heart once you have truly bee born again. Many say I give license for people to sin because I am against law. That is a lie, if you are truly born again, you hate sin and want nothing to with it. Doesn't mean you want sin, but can't stand it when you do. Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the law was?

Perhaps you missed Genesis 26:5 where it says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"?
What was Paul born again when he wrote Roman 7:14-23? Why did he use present tense?
Who, Christians, can say he/she has not sinned since born again?

 

[chubbena]

John was greater than Moses. Paul is a citizen of the kingdom of heaven.

Truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen one greater than John the Baptist. But the one who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. Matthew 11:11​

Are you saying, or did Jesus say, Abraham and Moses are NOT in the kingdom of heaven?

 

[TheAristocat]

Cornelius was not a Jew.

But he believed and submitted to the divine revelation given to the Jews as much as it applied to Gentiles, and believed in the promise of a Messiah to come.

His actions were from that faith, and were accepted by God (Ac 10:34-35; Ro 2;10-11), as a pleasing aroma like in the memorial offerings.

So where do you find the laws for animal sacrifices still in force?

Actually that post of mine was just a side note. I was only saying that I thought it was interesting, because it was one of the things that I learned from meditating on the laws. Never stated that Cornelius was a Jew and never meant to imply that he was either. In fact he was neither a Christian (i.e. he was unsaved and effectively an 'unbeliever') nor a Jew. But he was still able to please God. And I realized that by looking at the law.

The animal sacrifices are no longer being observed in force, because there is no temple and because most modern Jews are stuck in Rabbinic Judaism that stems from Pharisaical Judaism and at times subverts the law of God. But there is a Temple Institute that is dedicated to the re-establishment of a third temple. And they have manufactured all of the articles, including the high priest's clothing, for use in this temple. They are also selective breeding animals for sacrificial use. Some say a third temple will never be established, and I think they have the rest of the world supporting them. But I think Scripture claims that there will be a third temple built by humans before the New Jerusalem comes.

 

[chubbena]

Oh poor chubbena, what hath satan gotten you into?

You tell me
Another joke aside, was Timothy cursed?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Perhaps you missed Genesis 26:5 where it says "Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws"?
What was Paul born again when he wrote Roman 7:14-23? Why did he use present tense?
Who, Christians, can say he/she has not sinned since born again?

perhaps you missed romans 4. Abraham was not found because of what he did, he was found because of his faith.

Paul used present tense in rom because he was talking about his status the moment he wrote those words. And yes, he was saved then.

and finally. No one can say they have not sinned even after saved. The law (if we look to it) proves this.

 

[chubbena]

The Bible says the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2), and given through the writers of the NT, is greater than the revelation of the OT prophets.

The NT is God's completed revelation in which light all Scripture is to be understood.

Jesus is greatest alright but where does the Bible say Paul is greater than Abraham? If the Bible doesn't explicitly say Paul is greater than Abraham why does one promote this idea?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

You tell me
Another joke aside, was Timothy cursed?

No, because he did it so that people who did think circumcision was a big deal wouldn't have an excuse to be offended and persecute them.

Circumcision is nothing; the motive behind it is everything. Trying to please GOD with it doesn't work because he's not pleased with it anymore. It was a shadow; move on to the reality.

 

[chubbena]

Which does not alter the fact that the revelation spoken by the Son in the last days (Heb 1:1-2),
and recorded by the NT writers, is superior to the revelation spoken in the past days of the OT.

The NT is God's completed revelation and the light in which all Scripture is to be understood.


Did you expect God's wisdom to be on the level of man's wisdom?

Peter said his dear brother, the holy apostle Paul, wrote with the wisdom God gave him (2Pe 3:15),
and not with the wisdom of man.


Agreed. . .there are none in Heb 1:1-2.

So go to where they are revealed in Heb 7, 8, 10, as presented in my earlier post to you.

Yes, Isa 8:20 reads as you state.

And Ge 1:1 reads "In the beginning. . ."

Did Heb 2:13 quote either Ge 1:1 or Isa 8:20?

How lame can you get?

And your point (other than misrepresentation)?


So the only reason the law requiring animal sacrifice for sin is not in force is because there is no Temple?

What about that part of the NT where Jesus appeared once, for all, at the end of the ages, to do away with sin
by the sacrifice of himself (Heb 9:26),

the part where he was sacrificed once, for all (Heb 9:25, 28, 10:10),

the part where he ascended into heaven now to appear for us in God's presence (Heb 9:24),
living always to intercede for those who come to God through him (Heb 7:25),
and not through animal sacrifices for sin whose requirement is still in force.

You know nothing Biblical of the Christ Jesus if you believe the laws requiring animal sacrifice
for sin are still in force after the sacrifice of the Christ Jesus once for all to do away with sin.

How lame? That's not Christ like. Our conversation stops here unless you apologize.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Are you saying, or did Jesus say, Abraham and Moses are NOT in the kingdom of heaven?

They will be, or currently are. But no, they weren't in the flesh. Only those who came after Christ were/are in the kingdom of GOD/heaven in the flesh.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Who distorted Paul's letters to their own destruction, as they all do to the rest of the scripture? Isn't those who twisted Paul's words to say the law is no more?
Priesthood changed - perhaps one has to define what law we are talking about here - Ceremonial or moral.

That would be these:

Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned; from which [the law of Christ] some having deviated have turned aside to vain talk, desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor what they affirm [is true]. 1 Timothy 1:5-7
​

Trying to separate the moral and ceremonial laws is sin and a travesty.

 

[chubbena]

As a whole, there is no contradictions anywhere. But as man interprets it one this way and another that way is where the contradictions come from. All scripture as a whole is Spiritually discerned by God for the ones that he has received, by his Mercy through Son, Christ. The Abrahamic covenant is still in place to this day, by Faith (belief) we are justified and go out doing God's works of God living through us, not just in us.
For a man does not take a lamp and hide it under the lampstand for no one to see. Rather he puts the lamp on the lampstand for all to see.
Christ is that lamp, and the Lampstand is one's mind thoughts.
So we after belief are asked to:
Romans 12:2
And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God
Ephesians 4:23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

Spirit of God and flesh, world thoughts is what is at war to win ones souls. World forces, where as God just loves:
Romans 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
Romans 8:34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
2 Corinthians 5:14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead

I agree with what you said here but the renewing takes lots of courage to shed the old baggage.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I agree with what you said here but the renewing takes lots of courage to shed the old baggage.

that is the awsome thing about grace.

it does not take courage, it takes the power of God. We can't shed the old baggage apart from this.

 

[royalscot]

The animal sacrifices are no longer being observed in force, because there is no temple and because most modern Jews are stuck in Rabbinic Judaism that stems from Pharisaical Judaism and at times subverts the law of God. But there is a Temple Institute that is dedicated to the re-establishment of a third temple. And they have manufactured all of the articles, including the high priest's clothing, for use in this temple. They are also selective breeding animals for sacrificial use. Some say a third temple will never be established, and I think they have the rest of the world supporting them. But I think Scripture claims that there will be a third temple built by humans before the New Jerusalem comes.

1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. 6When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.Hebrews 9

8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functionin

24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

there seems to be a temple in heaven.

 

[Elin]

How lame? That's not Christ like. Our conversation stops here unless you apologize.

I apologize for my unkind way of pointing out your boot-strapping of Isa 8:20.

But please don't do that anymore, okay?

So how are the laws for animal sacrifice still in force after the death of Christ?

 

[just-me]

I apologize for my unkind way of pointing out your boot-strapping of Isa 8:20.

But please don't do that anymore, okay?

So how are the laws for animal sacrifice still in force after the death of Christ?

You didn't apologize to me for saying boot stapping. whaaaaa!! Just kidding. LOL

 

[Elin]

Sorry about all the boxes, but that's the only way to give the context.

The ceremonial and the civil laws of Moses are no longer valid.

The moral laws are still valid.

I think you missed the point of my post. lol Because what you're saying within the context of my point is that God's laws found in the writings/recording of Moses are not valid as a holy standard of living. I don't believe God hands out laws arbitrarily. One might say that they know what all of the laws are for, and therefore they have no purpose. To each his own. But I disagree with that reasoning.

Are you saying the laws requiring the sacrifice of animals are still in force?

Yuppers. As well as the grain offerings.

Acts 10:4 Cornelius stared at him in fear. “What is it, Lord?” he asked. The angel answered, “Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God.

Leviticus 2:9 He shall take out the memorial portion from the grain offering and burn it on the altar as a food offering, an aroma pleasing to the Lord.

So what does it mean to come up as a memorial offering? It gets God's attention. It pleases him.

Cornelius was not a Jew.

But he believed and submitted to the divine revelation given to the Jews as much as
it applied to Gentiles, and believed in the promise of a Messiah to come.

His actions were from that faith, and were accepted by God
(Ac 10:34-35; Ro 2;10-11), as a pleasing aroma like in the memorial offerings.

So where do you find the laws for animal sacrifices still in force?

Actually that post of mine was just a side note. I was only saying that I thought it was interesting. . .
Never stated that Cornelius was a Jew and never meant to imply that he was either.

You asked a question in the context of the Gentile Cornelius' action, and it was answered
in the context of the Gentile Cornelius' action.

In fact he was neither a Christian nor a Jew

Yes, although Cornelius was neither a Jew nor a Christian, his actions of faith were accepted by God
as a pleasing aroma like in the memorial offerings.

But now that the Christ has come, there is something further that Cornelius must do, he must believe
in Christ Jesus to remain acceptable to God, just as the Jews must do.
So God sends not an angel, but a man to give him the gospel of Christ Jesus.

The animal sacrifices are no longer being observed in force, because there is no temple and because most modern Jews are stuck in Rabbinic Judaism that stems from Pharisaical Judaism and at times subverts the law of God.

My question was in your context of the Mosaic law applying to believers.

So, are the laws requiring animal sacrifices still in force for Christians, or have they
been set aside (Heb 7:18-19)?