What Laws are still valid to christians

[chubbena]

How's about your reviewing the whole thread so it all doesn't have to be repeated to you. . .

I did and I would review the whole forum if life allowed. I never asked anyone to repeat anything here though.

 

[homwardbound]

1Now the first covenant had regulations for worship and also an earthly sanctuary. 2A tabernacle was set up. In its first room were the lampstand and the table with its consecrated bread; this was called the Holy Place. 3Behind the second curtain was a room called the Most Holy Place, 4which had the golden altar of incense and the gold-covered ark of the covenant. This ark contained the gold jar of manna, Aaron’s staff that had budded, and the stone tablets of the covenant. 5Above the ark were the cherubim of the Glory, overshadowing the atonement cover. But we cannot discuss these things in detail now. 6When everything had been arranged like this, the priests entered regularly into the outer room to carry on their ministry. 7But only the high priest entered the inner room, and that only once a year, and never without blood, which he offered for himself and for the sins the people had committed in ignorance. 8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functioning. 9This is an illustration for the present time, indicating that the gifts and sacrifices being offered were not able to clear the conscience of the worshiper. 10They are only a matter of food and drink and various ceremonial washings—external regulations applying until the time of the new order.Hebrews 9

8The Holy Spirit was showing by this that the way into the Most Holy Place had not yet been disclosed as long as the first tabernacle was still functionin

24For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

there seems to be a temple in heaven.

Yep,

[h=3]Hebrews 8:1-4[/h]King James Version (KJV)

8 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
[SUP]2 [/SUP]A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]For every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices: wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also to offer.

[SUP]4 [/SUP]For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

And we are made what?
Ephesians 2:19
Now you are no longer strangers to God and foreigners to heaven, but you are members of God’s very own family, citizens of God’s country, and you belong in God’s household with every other Christian.

 

[homwardbound]

The laws were made to show how a soul should behave in a manner that pleases God; but you can't make a soul to be righteous, because righteousness must come from within the soul. But if a soul is made to be righteous, then the soul isn't righteous and never will be because it's just following orders like a slave. But if the soul goes through tribulations for a while, that soul will mature because it will not treat others unlawfully because it will know how it will feel to be treated unlawfully and will treat others with respect and will be able to understand the pains and sufferings of others. So when a soul goes through tribulations, they are being Baptize. And once they come out from it, they are resurrected from their old self into their new self. Everyone must go through the fire to be purify.

Thank you, I do see what you are saying been and have suffered in the flesh and still could, yet as Job, I will not curse God. And when God is finished with me, I shall be matured as God sees fit for me, the new me to be, dead to flesh and held alive by God's Spirit
Thanks, appreciated, in all humility

 

[chubbena]

From God's view, no one is viewed by god better than another
Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.
Ephesians 6:9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him.

Colossians 3:25 But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

That's right. Paul didn't consider himself greater than anyone except the false apostles. So unless Abraham and Moses are....but they are not.

 

[homwardbound]

Perhaps you should ask someone who promotes the idea.

yes, as I see this God is not have any favorites over others that Believe. Those that believe God are made one with God. Whether one sees that yet or not is between God and the ones that believe God.

 

[homwardbound]

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

The question is whether we are in Christ or not. In our own power and our own righteousness (including our own 'Christian' righteousness), it seems that we have nothing to offer God. It is strictly by grace, through a surrendered will. Surrendering and allowing our 'flesh' to be crucified seems way more difficult to do than most of our typical religious activities. It is a death to ourselves, where we put the Isaac of our lives up on the altar. I have to give it all to him. It isn't about me trying harder or doing more. It is about me giving it all, and letting God have it all. But my struggle is to not give it all. I want to keep my life. I don't want to have to go to the cross daily. I don't want to surrender my life every single day. It is a struggle.

Yet how will I see this new life, unless I am conformed to his death
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Living Bible (TLB)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]Now I have given up everything else—I have found it to be the only way to really know Christ and to experience the mighty power that brought him back to life again, and to find out what it means to suffer and to die with him. [SUP]11 [/SUP]So whatever it takes, I will be one who lives in the fresh newness of life of those who are alive from the dead.

 

[chubbena]

better yet. We should decide which law could ever save? Since scripture said the ceremonial law could not save, And scripture states emphatically the moral law could never make us rightious. Then we can logically conclude that both would be in effect. And not one or the other.

I understand what you are saying in all your response - that the law does not save and that I agree but then again we are talking about what laws are still valid to Christians here.

 

[homwardbound]

thanks for that homeward, just cant help thinking, did you read any other posts, i wrote on this topic.

Yes I did, yet not conscious of them now, I shall go back and read them, Thank you

 

[homwardbound]

That's right. Paul didn't consider himself greater than anyone except the false apostles. So unless Abraham and Moses are....but they are not.

I do not think in the Spirit of god that Paul even though about being better than anyone else. Not in the Spirit. Flesh maybe if if ever did walk back in the flesh. Paul loved all whether they believed or not, just as God does, just not all see this truth here, and so there is wars of the flesh that get in the way of each other, which for me I avoid, and ask God to show me and keep me from. as I have had that time before, and do not want it ever again. And the only way I found to adhere to this, is by trust in the living God, through the finished work of Son, giving God all the credit not me and or no one else. Flesh is very tricky in deceptions. But God is stronger that man flesh, and causes his children to stand, this I trust God in, thanks to Son, Christ. No other chance without this cross of Christ.

 

[homwardbound]

I understand what you are saying in all your response - that the law does not save and that I agree but then again we are talking about what laws are still valid to Christians here.

The law of God's love imputed to us, by God, best described in 1 Cor. 13:4-13, that which no flesh can do, only God in the Spirit of God can. And is why it is so important to be born again be led by the Spirit of God as Christ was. Thus we walk as he walked, thankfully, having the Advocate Jesus Christ the righteous as our total propitiation fro any and all sin. If we do sin as
[h=3]1 John 2:1-3[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: [SUP]2 [/SUP]and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. [SUP]3 [/SUP]And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

So the ? in mind is here what are the commandments? LOVE his type of Love. 1 Cor. 13:4-13

 

[TheAristocat]

So the Mosaic law has been set aside (Heb 7:18-19) in the NT.

The "Mosaic Law" - the law that was given to Moses directly from God's mouth - applied to human beings. When Christ became human he was "born under the law" and therefore subject to it. Currently I do not believe he is any longer subject to it. But human beings should obey it if they desire to live in a holy fashion. Saying that the law has been set aside in this case is like saying the law of ritual purification regarding child birth has been set aside for a man. The law never applied to the man - only to women, so of course it's set aside in his case. However, that does not abolish the law since it still carries its proper application.

 

[chubbena]

perhaps you missed romans 4. Abraham was not found because of what he did, he was found because of his faith.

Paul used present tense in rom because he was talking about his status the moment he wrote those words. And yes, he was saved then.

and finally. No one can say they have not sinned even after saved. The law (if we look to it) proves this.

I was merely replying Kerry whom said there was no law. It was not about whether Abraham was saved by faith.

 

[chubbena]

No, because he did it so that people who did think circumcision was a big deal wouldn't have an excuse to be offended and persecute them.

Circumcision is nothing; the motive behind it is everything. Trying to please GOD with it doesn't work because he's not pleased with it anymore. It was a shadow; move on to the reality.

So are you saying that in order not to offend and be persecuted we are to do what the unbelievers think is the right thing to do?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was merely replying Kerry whom said there was no law. It was not about whether Abraham was saved by faith.

what is the purpose of the law? and what has ALWAYS been the purpose?

 

[john832]

The "Mosaic Law" - the law that was given to Moses directly from God's mouth - applied to human beings. When Christ became human he was "born under the law" and therefore subject to it. Currently I do not believe he is any longer subject to it. But human beings should obey it if they desire to live in a holy fashion. Saying that the law has been set aside in this case is like saying the law of ritual purification regarding child birth has been set aside for a man. The law never applied to the man - only to women, so of course it's set aside in his case. However, that does not abolish the law since it still carries its proper application.

Heb 7:18-19 needs to be read in context...

Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

What Law was changed?

Num 18:1 And the LORD said unto Aaron, Thou and thy sons and thy father's house with thee shall bear the iniquity of the sanctuary: and thou and thy sons with thee shall bear the iniquity of your priesthood.
Num 18:2 And thy brethren also of the tribe of Levi, the tribe of thy father, bring thou with thee, that they may be joined unto thee, and minister unto thee: but thou and thy sons with thee shall minister before the tabernacle of witness.
Num 18:3 And they shall keep thy charge, and the charge of all the tabernacle: only they shall not come nigh the vessels of the sanctuary and the altar, that neither they, nor ye also, die.
Num 18:4 And they shall be joined unto thee, and keep the charge of the tabernacle of the congregation, for all the service of the tabernacle: and a stranger shall not come nigh unto you.
Num 18:5 And ye shall keep the charge of the sanctuary, and the charge of the altar: that there be no wrath any more upon the children of Israel.
Num 18:6 And I, behold, I have taken your brethren the Levites from among the children of Israel: to you they are given as a gift for the LORD, to do the service of the tabernacle of the congregation.

The Law that says only a direct descendant of Aaron of the tribe of Levi can be a Priest, specifically the High Priest. This is teh reason for the very next verses...

Heb 7:13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
Heb 7:14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

We are not talking about the whole of the Law here, we are talking about the Law that says that a Priest must have the DNA of Aaron and Levi. Christ did not have that DNA, He was from the tribe of Judah. So without the changing of the Law, He could not be High Priest. Christ will NOT VIOLATE His own Laws.

Heb 7:15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
Heb 7:16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
Heb 7:18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
Heb 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Now instead of lifting these two verses out of context, let's read on...

Heb 7:20 And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:

Notice that "inasmuch" is referring to Him being made Priest. It is not referring to the Ten Commandments or the whole of the Law.

Heb 7:21 (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec
Heb 7:22 By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 7:23 And they truly were many priests, because they were not suffered to continue by reason of death:
Heb 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood.

The subject is the Priesthood and the fact that the Law had to be changed to legitimize one from teh tribe of Judah being High Priest. Christ was the LORD who spoke those Laws to Moses and WILL NOT violate His own Law, therefore the Law had to be changed.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

So are you saying that in order not to offend and be persecuted we are to do what the unbelievers think is the right thing to do?

lol, if we did this, we would be following in their sin, and ignoring the love God has shown us would we not?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So are you saying that in order not to offend and be persecuted we are to do what the unbelievers think is the right thing to do?

Are you judging Paul for not wanting to offend the Jews and be persecuted? To the Jews he became as a Jew; to the Romans he became as a Roman. Perhaps his motive wasn't to avoid persecution, but to avoid offense to the gospel. That actually makes more sense.

 

[chubbena]

They will be, or currently are. But no, they weren't in the flesh. Only those who came after Christ were/are in the kingdom of GOD/heaven in the flesh.

What does it have to do with the flesh? What is your definition of kingdom of heaven anyway?

 

[homwardbound]

thanks for that homeward, just cant help thinking, did you read any other posts, i wrote on this topic.

yes and after going back and reading I saw that I had already posted likes to your posts and now added to more likes to them. Thanks, and am glad we are of the same Spirit of God
1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Are you judging Paul for not wanting to offend the Jews and be persecuted? To the Jews he became as a Jew; to the Romans he became as a Roman. Perhaps his motive wasn't to avoid persecution, but to avoid offense to the gospel. That actually makes more sense.

correct. But he did not sin doing it. He just followed their custom and did not do his own customs as a jew like Peter did once and had to be called out on it.