LOSING SALVATION POSSIBLE OR NOT POSSIBLE ???

[homwardbound]

Hello everyone! Yep that is the permanent question in christianity of all ages. Unfortunetely I haven't read the whole discussion up here. And it's allready 193 pages. I think it's question really valuable and hard to say definitely otherwise it wouldn't have discussed for so long time.
We even have two opposite biblical systematic teachings that, certainly based on Bible and either of them are built logically very gracefully.


I think that salvation couldn't be lost because:

Rev 3:12 The one who conquers I will make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will never depart from it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from my God), and my new name as well.


but salvation needed to be aquired:

Phil 2:12 So then, my dear friends, just as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence but even more in my absence, continue working out your salvation with awe and reverence,

Awesome and then see the next verse, and so continue in God to work this out in you by Faith that God will do so
Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

So if we continue in the Faith, not in self, we will see the truth that sets us free
[h=3]Colossians 1:21-23[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled [SUP]22 [/SUP]in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: [SUP]23 [/SUP]if ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

So those that are in God won't ;lose their salvation, once they know what God has done for them and believe God in this truth. Those that walk or walked away, never came to full belief, they tasted and left, in unbelief.

 

[homwardbound]

That's what I'm talking about. I don't know why but many of followers define according to their own mindset what is refers to salvation and what is not.

I believe that every single word refers to ours salvation. We just need to know that biseds prophetic aspect every single word contain personal aspect for ourselves.

John 6:63-64a It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh is no help at all. The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But there are some of you who do not believe.”

John 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life,

Now that is truth, Thanks

 

[homwardbound]

You cannot lose your Salvation. And anybody who knows the scriptures and God's plan for man from the beginning to the end knows this. First of all, this debate about once saved always saved or not is really a debate about works vs. grace. If you believe that we're only saved by the mercy and grace of Jesus and because we are forgiven for our sins then you believe that you cannot lose your salvation. but if you believe that you can lose your salvation if you don't do good works and live a godly and respectable life then you believe that we're saved by our works. So, which is right Grace, (you cannot lose your salvation) or works (you can lose your salvation if you don't work hard enough to live a pure and godly life).

Here are some verses on that subject that show us the way of salvation:

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

That last verse indicates that it has to be 100% by Grace or 100% by works. It can't be partly by grace and partly by works as some people teach.

So now that we have clarified the point with scriptures showing that our salvation is only by grace (once saved always saved) not by works (not once saved always saved), we can go on to the next point.

3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

The bible teaches us that everybody is a sinner. We all fall short of the glory of God. Nobody can be perfect enough to earn or deserve heaven, no matter how hard they try.

14:1 The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

14:2 The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.

14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Since everybody is a sinner then we can only conclude that the only way to get to heaven is by being forgiven for our sins and having righteousness automatically imputed up us by faith. And the only way that can happen is by receiving and believing in Jesus. As the apostle Peter said,

4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Some people say that the doctrine that you can't lose your salvation was cooked up by people who don't want to have to work hard to live a pure and Godly life and to be free to sin. First of all, Salvation is not about being free to sin, it's about being free from sin. Secondly the people who say this are judgmental religious hypocrites who think they are better and more righteous than others.

Since all have sinned that means that the person who is loving and gives to charity and helps people and is always sweet and nice is just as much a sinner as the murderer, rapist, pedophile, etc. But they don't see it. So to put that in perspective, if a person gets saved and has all their sins forgiven but then goes out and lives, what some people would call a sinful life, his sins are still forgiven and righteousness is still imputed upon him by faith. By the same token a person who gets saved and continues to work hard at living a pure and godly life is still just as much a sinner saved by grace as the other person. When it comes to salvation , our actual sins that each of us may or may not be guilty of is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is our faith in Jesus. Our acceptance of Jesus saves us, not our righteous ability to do the right things and be obedient to the rules. Our rejection of Jesus is what damns us, not our sins and disobediences.

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Romans 14:11
For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Romans 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.

 

[RedTent]

Jesus died once, the high priest no longer sacrifices for us.

why do you want to go to law??

why did you leave alot of this passage out?? This is talking about people BEFORE THE CROSS. Not us!!

Where in this passage does it say we EARN justification by continued repentance and begging God to forgive us (confess) Where does it say we must get saved over and over again?? Why do you want to take a "freely given" to mean "continue to earn by confession or else"

they can ONLY fall short if their faith is not pure.. Only those who have a belief, not faith, In the work and promises of God can fall short. Once someone has TRUE faith. They will CONTINUE to fall short (for all have sinned and fall short) but God will keep his promise.. He does not expect us to be perfect. He KNOWS we can;t!

Again, You only posted part. So much wrong here.

1. it says they can not be renewed. Thus if salvation was lost. They could NEVER confess again to be saved, they lost it forever. This alone destroys your idea of confessing after every sin.
2. The passage goes on talking in symbolic form. Saying the person could be NEAR to being cursed. This does not say they WILL be cursed (lose salvation)

Salvation is a gift. Not a reward. Thus this IS NOT talking about salvation. Did you not read romans 4 or the MANY other passages which say grace is not earned, otherwise it is not grace??

Why do you want to be like the people of galations? do you want to start it by the spirit, yet attempt to perfect your gift in the flesh?? What did paul call them?? Fools!

why bother!!

Of course we can't be so God like we can do what only God can do. Salvation is a gift. We all need Christ. When we go to Christ we turn away from our sin, we repent, we are forgiven and we are saved. It is grace, it is a gift.

But to say that once we receive that gift we must not learn and bless our Lord for His directions in how to walk in His path is not right. In Romans chapters 12, 13, and 14 are devoted to directions on how to obey law. We cannot be robbers, liars, thieves, or turn our backs on the needs of others and live with the Lord, keeping our salvation. God and sin will not go together. That is why God gave us Christ.

By saying that sin is OK, you can trust the Holy Spirit within you without ever checking the law to see if you are walking with God you are opening up the world to accepting sin. It is through Christ, and we are the ambassadors of Christ, that we show the world the way to peace and contentment.

 

[in2it]

1 Corinthians 10
1I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters,[SUP]a[/SUP] about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago. All of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them, and all of them walked through the sea on dry ground. 2In the cloud and in the sea, all of them were baptized as followers of Moses. 3All of them ate the same spiritual food, 4and all of them drank the same spiritual water. For they drank from the spiritual rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ. 5Yet God was not pleased with most of them, and their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6These things happened as a warning to us, so that we would not crave evil things as they did, 7or worship idols as some of them did. As the Scriptures say, “The people celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged in pagan revelry.”[SUP]b[/SUP] 8And we must not engage in sexual immorality as some of them did, causing 23,000 of them to die in one day.
9Nor should we put Christ[SUP]c[/SUP] to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.
12If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall.

These verses prove that you can indeed lose your salvation.

 

[homwardbound]

Of course we can't be so God like we can do what only God can do. Salvation is a gift. We all need Christ. When we go to Christ we turn away from our sin, we repent, we are forgiven and we are saved. It is grace, it is a gift.

But to say that once we receive that gift we must not learn and bless our Lord for His directions in how to walk in His path is not right. In Romans chapters 12, 13, and 14 are devoted to directions on how to obey law. We cannot be robbers, liars, thieves, or turn our backs on the needs of others and live with the Lord, keeping our salvation. God and sin will not go together. That is why God gave us Christ.

By saying that sin is OK, you can trust the Holy Spirit within you without ever checking the law to see if you are walking with God you are opening up the world to accepting sin. It is through Christ, and we are the ambassadors of Christ, that we show the world the way to peace and contentment.

I like what you said RedTent, Can I add one thing? you can reject it or accept it.
In what you said, I see it true, except one thing, how about instead of me checking with Law if I am doing it okay, and thus keeping Christ hidden in my heart, me the self being in the way. How about I ask God through the Holy Ghost to live his life through me. Me thus out of the way, you know the same as Christ was, led by God through the Holy Ghost. Did nothing unless Father said to and said nothing unless Father said to.
You know as long as one considers their selves to be alive and not dead to self with Christ at the cross, how can one serve in the newness of life, if the old self creeps its way back in?
So to me instead of checking with the Law, which does show us our imperfection every time and can keep one humble and guilty, no doubt.
But if I, you or anyone else humbles themselves daily to the cross of Christ and willingly daily die the old flesh self that is unredeemed, then might we see the resurrecteion as we are to see from God as Paul stated in Phil 3
[h=3]Philippians 3:10-11[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]10 [/SUP]that I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [SUP]11 [/SUP]if by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
Thanks Lois for taking the time to listen

 

[homwardbound]

1 Corinthians 10
1I don’t want you to forget, dear brothers and sisters,[SUP]a[/SUP] about our ancestors in the wilderness long ago. All of them were guided by a cloud that moved ahead of them, and all of them walked through the sea on dry ground. 2In the cloud and in the sea, all of them were baptized as followers of Moses. 3All of them ate the same spiritual food, 4and all of them drank the same spiritual water. For they drank from the spiritual rock that traveled with them, and that rock was Christ. 5Yet God was not pleased with most of them, and their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

6These things happened as a warning to us, so that we would not crave evil things as they did, 7or worship idols as some of them did. As the Scriptures say, “The people celebrated with feasting and drinking, and they indulged in pagan revelry.”[SUP]b[/SUP] 8And we must not engage in sexual immorality as some of them did, causing 23,000 of them to die in one day.
9Nor should we put Christ[SUP]c[/SUP] to the test, as some of them did and then died from snakebites. 10And don’t grumble as some of them did, and then were destroyed by the angel of death. 11These things happened to them as examples for us. They were written down to warn us who live at the end of the age.
12If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall.

These verses prove that you can indeed lose your salvation.

No, rather they prove, that we are saved by Faith in God and God alone through Christ

Luke 7:50 And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace.
Luke 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, Receive thy sight: thy faith hath saved thee.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

 

[in2it]

1 Corinthians 10:
12If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall.

This is the verse that really sums it up.
I know that we all sin but the ones that don't repent are in danger. Repenting isn't just asking for forgiveness. It also means changing ones behavior. Being sorry for sinning doesn't cut the mustard. One must have a sincere change of heart to affect forgiveness. You can be heart broken and devastated because of your sin but if you continue in that same sin you never truly repented.
To say that if you turn away from God means you were never saved to begin with is just a play with words, catch 22.
I admit it would be difficult to lose one salvation but possible. Even not repenting for a sin wouldn't qualify. But I believe continuing to not repent gives Satan a foothold. Most that turn from God eventually return, like the Prodigal Son. Hence the catch 22.

 

[Apostol2013]

by faith but only the true faith in jesus for he came in righteousness we arent simply christians by name only or to say we are alive but surely dead then we would be liars but in christ there is no sin his grace will cover you till full understanding is given from that point if knowing the truth and not doing it but instead being negligent then my brothers that is sin if thou dont repent or to make an oath it by your own hurt and walk not backwards psalm 15

 

[homwardbound]

1 Corinthians 10:
12If you think you are standing strong, be careful not to fall.

This is the verse that really sums it up.
I know that we all sin but the ones that don't repent are in danger. Repenting isn't just asking for forgiveness. It also means changing ones behavior. Being sorry for sinning doesn't cut the mustard. One must have a sincere change of heart to affect forgiveness. You can be heart broken and devastated because of your sin but if you continue in that same sin you never truly repented.
To say that if you turn away from God means you were never saved to begin with is just a play with words, catch 22.
I admit it would be difficult to lose one salvation but possible. Even not repenting for a sin wouldn't qualify. But I believe continuing to not repent gives Satan a foothold. Most that turn from God eventually return, like the Prodigal Son. Hence the catch 22.

To the sanctified in Christ Jesus, the ones that are called, be assured God is Faithfull and will never leave you nor forsake you.
No one can snatch you out of his hand. No weapon formed against you shall ever prosper. God through Christ, that is the propitiation not only for any and all sin you might commit or have committed, also for the whole world, waiting for us to believe God in this truth and be God's Saint, Called accepted, by believing God and received, thus see truth in God as God has called all to believe in God, first and foremost. Thus we receive new life in God, by the resurrected Christ in the Spirit of Christ
Thanksgiving and praises go unto God for us being able right now to enter his courts as David said would be, seeing the savior Jesus Christ afar off.
[h=3]Psalm 100:4[/h]Authorized (King James) Version (AKJV)

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Enter into his gates with thanksgiving,
and into his courts with praise:

be thankful unto him, and bless his name.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: