Why do atheist think that believing there is no kind of god is the most logical?

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

Cuz its not really logical to believe there is no god or to believe there is one. There is not enough proof to fully support either atheism or any religion. (Which is why I'm agnostic)

But I do believe in some supernatural stuff. (Like ghosts cuz I've actually had ghostly experiences) but I'm not sure about a god.

Your thoughts?

 

[T_Laurich]

Cuz its not really logical to believe there is no god or to believe there is one. There is not enough proof to fully support either atheism or any religion. (Which is why I'm agnostic)

But I do believe in some supernatural stuff. (Like ghosts cuz I've actually had ghostly experiences) but I'm not sure about a god.

Your thoughts?

My thought is you are waiting for one side to disprove the other side hence why you created this thread... I think you are waiting for the victor to emerge in the 'war' and you will pick that side... Because it will make the most sense... I urge you to read revelations...

 

[HerrGeschichte]

Honestly, I haven't the proof I feel I need to fully believe that there IS a God(s)/ess(s) . . . but that's just me, I dunno about other's

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

My thought is you are waiting for one side to disprove the other side hence why you created this thread... I think you are waiting for the victor to emerge in the 'war' and you will pick that side... Because it will make the most sense... I urge you to read revelations...

Actually, if either way is proven to myself then I will believe it even if it has not been proven to the rest of the world. But so far nothing has proven or disproven god to me. (Altho more evidence is against a god than for one)

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

Honestly, I haven't the proof I feel I need to fully believe that there IS a God(s)/ess(s) . . . but that's just me, I dunno about other's

Well it hasn't been proven there is no god... but more evidence is against one than for one.

Unless its a deist thing. Like a god created everything but then left us all alone. That would explain things...

 

[T_Laurich]

Actually, if either way is proven to myself then I will believe it even if it has not been proven to the rest of the world. But so far nothing has proven or disproven god to me. (Altho more evidence is against a god than for one)

I am sorry but you are arrogant and ignorant... To try to disprove God is futile, one day you will see what I am talking about... If you just use logic you understand that you cannot disprove Him

 

[TheKringledOne]

Most people who label themselves as atheists do not claim that there is no possibility god, but rather just say that they do not believe in a god. Probably best worded as "not accepting the claim that a god exists".

But logical conclusions depend on the premises you are using, and most people base their premises on experiences (to some degree). When there is a situation when multiple people are communicating it is important that those premises are shared by everyone in the conversation. If all of them have experienced some sort of god or gods and believe their senses to always be reliable then they could logically conclude there is a god. So whether or not it is logical to be an atheist or a theist depends on what people accept as premises.

The idea of a god (in the general sense) is unfalsifiable and that means it probably won't make any useful predictions about reality. IMO, predictive power is what really matters when it comes to ideas. Specific claims about gods can be falsifiable, so it is not a totally useless concept. However, I have never been exposed to any evidence that would make me think that a god exists. Because of that it is logical for me not to accept the claims of the existence of a god or gods. Whenever I receive new relevant data I would have to reconsider the position. I will restate that I still think it is possible that a god could exist, even some interpretations of the Christian god, but I have yet to experience anything that would lead me to believe in one. However, it doesn't really come up in my day to day life. If I am in trouble the idea of calling out to a god never crosses my mind. If it wasn't for so many people around me believing then I would never think about it.

I think a lot of atheists take a very arrogant position when it comes to this issue. They try to claim that there position is the most logical, but most of them probably haven't studied much philosophy to even get the basic framework down. From my experience, it would not be logical to believe in a god. Some atheists would claim that it is impossible for anyone to be thinking logically when accepting the claim of a god's existence, but in order to be certain of that they would need to know all of the other person's experiences in life (every single detail). I highly doubt this information is available to them, so I feel pretty safe making the claim that their statement is hogwash.

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

I am sorry but you are arrogant and ignorant... To try to disprove God is futile, one day you will see what I am talking about... If you just use logic you understand that you cannot disprove Him

I'm not trying to disprove or prove a god. I'm just taking in information on the subject and so far no info I've encountered has made anything definite...

 

[TheKringledOne]

Foevermay, how are you defining God?

What ghostly experiences have you had that make you think that there are ghosts?

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

Foevermay, how are you defining God?

What ghostly experiences have you had that make you think that there are ghosts?

Well, by god I mean any being of great supernatural power that can create things from nothing...

and well I've had quite a few ghost encounters. Or possibly "demon" encounters. And also 2 run ins with what would seem like "angels"

These occurred between the ages of 10-13. I suppose Its possible I'm just crazy haha... anyway, a few examples:

once when I was in bed the covers slowly slid off of me onto the floor... I left them on the floor till morning haha and another time I woke up all of a sudden one night and this man with a knife was standing at the foot of my bed grinning at me but he disappeared almost as soon as I saw him... and another time I saw this black robed figure in the hallway and it reached out a skeletal looking hand towards me before it disappeared... (it looked like a dementor from Harry Potter but this was before I had watched the HP movies or even read the books) ....

I don't see things anymore but I still sense them, like I can sense that they are in the room with me but I can't see them...

And one of the run ins with the "angel" happened when I was like 10: I was outside in the daytime and I glanced something out of the corner of my eye, when I looked I saw this white robed figure who shone so bright that I couldn't see its face... it was gone in like 2 seconds.

Except for those 2 "angels" (at 10) everything else I've seen or sensed has been hostile. I sense emotions from them, they are usually angry, so angry, I feel like they want to hurt me... and I don't know why :/

So yea, but I'm not sure if its real or maybe I'm just crazy haha

 

[Married_Richenbrachen]

So yea, but I'm not sure if its real or maybe I'm just crazy haha

I think you would be crazy to deny your own experience. If there are angels and demons, wouldn't it be possible that there is also a God?

How did things (e.g. life, man) come to be, without a creator? I think you have enough information to know there must be a God, or at least gods, but this doesn't necessarily show you His nature. Do you agree thus far?

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

I think you would be crazy to deny your own experience. If there are angels and demons, wouldn't it be possible that there is also a God?

How did things (e.g. life, man) come to be, without a creator? I think you have enough information to know there must be a God, or at least gods, but this doesn't necessarily show you His nature. Do you agree thus far?

Yea! Like which god of which religion is true? Or maybe none of them are true... maybe there is a completely different god that exists or maybe multiple different gods... maybe this god or gods are not nice... mayb the god that created this world was driven away by a more powerful evil god that now rules in his place... there are so many possibilities...

maybe we were not created by a god but by aliens with super advanced technology and we are an experiment and they check on the expirament every so often... in which case the aliens were created by a god and we were created by the aliens and that would mean the aliens may have an afterlife but we don't...

Now I do sound crazy xD

 

[posthuman]

one classical stance on the issue is that taking as an axiom:
"the one who makes an outrageous claim has the burden of proof"
the atheist assumes there is no 'god' and without definitive proof, rejects the claim.

however given the enormous majority of humankind has throughout history believed in diety,
it's my opinion that those who claim there is no 'god' are the ones making the "outrageous claims"

 

[posthuman]

Actually, if either way is proven to myself then I will believe it even if it has not been proven to the rest of the world. But so far nothing has proven or disproven god to me. (Altho more evidence is against a god than for one)

as a fallible, finite human being i'm not convinced that i'm even qualified to look at any evidence for/against deity.

what evidence for the existence of the ocean is an ant in the desert qualified to judge? right from the start, a thinking man wishing to approach this question through reason & logic has to make grand assumptions that contradict the hierarchical nature of 'god' and 'man' --
if 'god', then by definition 'god' >> 'man' but then 'man' wants to make claims about the nature and existence of 'god' based on human reasoning -- which is by presupposition infinitely lower than divine 'thinking'

it's like "assume we are fools and there is an infinitely wise guru. now since his wisdom doesn't make sense to us, there is no guru." or "suppose the natural numbers are infinite. i can only count to 100, therefore the natural numbers are finite."

atheists i've talked to call this 'a cop-out argument,' to say that "God's ways are higher than my ways, so if i don't understand them it must be my own understanding that is lacking"

the Bible calls this "humility"

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

as a fallible, finite human being i'm not convinced that i'm even qualified to look at any evidence for/against deity.

what evidence for the existence of the ocean is an ant in the desert qualified to judge? right from the start, a thinking man wishing to approach this question through reason & logic has to make grand assumptions that contradict the hierarchical nature of 'god' and 'man' --
if 'god', then by definition 'god' >> 'man' but then 'man' wants to make claims about the nature and existence of 'god' based on human reasoning -- which is by presupposition infinitely lower than divine 'thinking'

it's like "assume we are fools and there is an infinitely wise guru. now since his wisdom doesn't make sense to us, there is no guru." or "suppose the natural numbers are infinite. i can only count to 100, therefore the natural numbers are finite."

atheists i've talked to call this 'a cop-out argument,' to say that "God's ways are higher than my ways, so if i don't understand them it must be my own understanding that is lacking"

the Bible calls this "humility"

I guess then the question becomes: why did a god create beings that could not understand his ways?

 

[TheKringledOne]

I guess then the question becomes: why did a god create beings that could not understand his ways?

And that question can be answered the exact same way.

 

[Stratocaster]

I guess then the question becomes: why did a god create beings that could not understand his ways?

That's sort of like the old comical adage "Can God create a rock so big that even He couldn't lift it?.

It brings into play the fact that, by nature, something greater can only create something less great. Just like humans can only create things WAY less complex than ourselves (even the most complicated robot powered by the most powerful processor pales in comparison to the cellular complexity of the human body), we are also not created to understand God.

It's like an ant; an ant could never have the capacity to comprehend the things a person knows. No matter what religion you're coming from, you have to admit that if there is a God powerful enough to create EVERYTHING, then He must be infinitely more complex than we can understand. We can catch bits and pieces, but there's no way we can fully comprehend all of Him.

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

And that question can be answered the exact same way.

Wouldn't it have been better to create beings that could learn to have humility even with the ability to understand gods ways than to try to force them to have humility by making them with inferior intellect?

 

[TheKringledOne]

I understand why you are moving on to these questions, but you might want to look at the answer that was given by Posthuman again because it still would be a legitimate response to your new question.

 

[ForeverMayNotBeLongEnough]

That's sort of like the old comical adage "Can God create a rock so big that even He couldn't lift it?.

It brings into play the fact that, by nature, something greater can only create something less great. Just like humans can only create things WAY less complex than ourselves (even the most complicated robot powered by the most powerful processor pales in comparison to the cellular complexity of the human body), we are also not created to understand God.

It's like an ant; an ant could never have the capacity to comprehend the things a person knows. No matter what religion you're coming from, you have to admit that if there is a God powerful enough to create EVERYTHING, then He must be infinitely more complex than we can understand. We can catch bits and pieces, but there's no way we can fully comprehend all of Him.

Yes, but I assumed it was cuz we are not all-powerful and that is why we cannot create things as great as us.
But a god (at least some gods including that of the bible) is supposed to be all-powerful, which means he should be able to create beings as great as him altho I do not think that means he could create beings greater then him cuz that's a bit ridiculous. But of course if he does not have the ability to create things at least just as great as he is then the term "all-powerful" does not seem to fit.

This really isn't making sense to me...