What Laws are still valid to christians

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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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When that which is perfect has come, what need is there for that which merely pointed to that which is perfect? When you reach your travel destination, do you continue to rely on the map that got you there?
So this is not perfect?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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So this is not perfect?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
Psa 19:8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
Psa 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psa 19:10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
Psa 19:11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward.
Psa 19:12 Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults.
Psa 19:13 Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be upright, and I shall be innocent from the great transgression.
Not for perfecting man. By no means.
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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So when we make something complete, make it whole, it no longer applies and becomes completely useless?
i'm sorry i'm not too sure what you are trying to ask me but i can tell you from experience that when i got saved how my life changed to exactly what the bible said it was fulfilled in me through the holy spirit, i actually found love for my neighbors which is impossible for me to do.. only God couldve done that i hated my grandmother for what she did to my family before and couldn't found it in my heart to love her until God changed me i had self control in my spirit so i wouldn't get angry ( anger causes you to lash out and can kill someone from that many people say but how can i kill someone but when temper and anger comes you can do it ) and my soul was at rest eternal as the bible says God gives us a rest when we accept him
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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Gal.4:9-11 "...how is it that you turn again to the weak and beggarly elements, to which you desire again to be in bondage? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I m afraid for you, lest I have labored for you in vain." AND Eph.2:14-15 "For He Himself is our peace, who has make both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is the law of commandments contained in ordinances, do as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace," Paul wants us to know that Jesus "abolished" the "special laws" for the Jews that made them separate from the Gentiles. Circumcision, dietary laws ,etc., are gone for ever. This is in keeping with the word Jesus used to "fulfill"the law. Jesus "fulfilled" the special laws for the Jews and abolished them, but Jesus kept in force the moral laws. The word "fulfill" means two things: 1. to finish their purpose and do away with. 2. and to fill to the fullest meaning and keep in tact. We are not to keep the feast days of the O.T. . they are "fulfilled" and done away with. Love to all, Hoffco
Law has punishment attached to it, I see no separation, being the Law as Holy, yet when it flows through flesh and blood, we are condemned. On the other hand through Christ we are made Holy through his death, that is to God the Father. So we can be born again of the Spirit of God and freed from stress/
To mix the two is a contradiction is it not since one's flesh is not redeemed. So then if I walk by the flesh, I am condemned am I not. Since At the cross Christ condemned:
Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

So for me "I" chose to believe God and that is when God took over and rebirthed me in God's Spirit, by the cross of Christ, and nothing more. poured into me new life that loves overfilling love each and every day. for love of God does no arm to any neighbor
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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When that which is perfect has come, what need is there for that which merely pointed to that which is perfect? When you reach your travel destination, do you continue to rely on the map that got you there?

Same thing as law vs. Christ.
This is very true, remember the ot was a shadow of things to come but when the real thing came ( Jesus Christ ) well that is the real deal, only thing we should rely on
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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Not for perfecting man. By no means.
Oh, then what does this mean?

Psa 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

After all...

Luk 22:32 But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.

Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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This is very true, remember the ot was a shadow of things to come but when the real thing came ( Jesus Christ ) well that is the real deal, only thing we should rely on
I do rely on Him, I also believe Him.
 

homwardbound

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2012
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not trying to debate just saying, i dont see where Yahshua ever said certian Laws would be abolished,

Mattithyah 5:18 "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Luke 16:17, "But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail."

Mattithyah 24:35, "Heaven and earth may pass away, but My words will not pass away."

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

enmity is:
Thayer's (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)

Feminine of G2190; hostility; by implication a reason for opposition:—enmity, hatred.

The oppisition to yahweh;s instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.
It is not that the Law is past, done away with, it is that in Christ it is fulfilled. The believer after seeing the finalization of the cross, first death then resurrection, sees the holiness God has given them through Son's death and resurrection, are no longer Law breakers. Yet the unbelieving are, even if they say they believe and break it, they as of yet do not understand what Christ did for them, and therefore as a wave in the sea tossed back and forth. this is just what I have come to see, after all those years n trying to obey Law as in ordinances I found I can't, gave up and God crossed me over that picket line of flesh into the Spirit where I am now at rest in God through Son. It is done, thanks
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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you gotta realize that the 10 commandments show that there is sin in the world that is why it will never past away if it pass anyway sin will no longer be sin because there is no law towards it that is why the law will not pass away, the world is judged by it
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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you gotta realize that the 10 commandments show that there is sin in the world that is why it will never past away if it pass anyway sin will no longer be sin because there is no law towards it that is why the law will not pass away, the world is judged by it
We are also...

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Verse 11 makes plain that the Law of liberty is the Ten Commandments. They are the metric God uses. As you said in another place about having a breakthrough (and that is wonderful) concerning lust, there would be no lust if not for the seventh and tenth Commandments.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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Yes. Self justification by the law is corrupting to the soul, same goes for self justification without the law. So the law shouldn't be what is in question, it is ourselves, by the law, and the totality of His word that should put us in question about who we really are in the sight of God. He looks at our heart to see if it is circumcised or not. As believers in Christ Jesus, we are to acknowledge before him, where we see "WE" fall short. We will never see that, if we don't take all of His Word to heart. Spiritually.
it was your quote, that was being answered to and stood clear that you had missed whole parts of one part of your quote,(gal 5 is a big chapter ) ie the part about jew and gentile and the change from the old to the new covenents.
then going to the law that came through moses.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
what part of grace a gift , do you not understand. (my last post)
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
1,286
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We are also...

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Verse 11 makes plain that the Law of liberty is the Ten Commandments. They are the metric God uses. As you said in another place about having a breakthrough (and that is wonderful) concerning lust, there would be no lust if not for the seventh and tenth Commandments.
well that is the job of the 10 commandments to show us weather we sin or not, that is why paul said he would not have known that lust is a sin if he had not seen thou salt not covet
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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well that is the job of the 10 commandments to show us weather we sin or not, that is why paul said he would not have known that lust is a sin if he had not seen thou salt not covet
We are in total agreement on this. The Law defines sin. Grace forgives sin and Christ's life saves us.
 
Jan 27, 2013
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So then if one is having troubles in these areas underlined, then one might be walking by the flesh and not the Spirit of God, yes?
they were pointing out the difference , between old and new covenents, how miss guided just me was.
4You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.
after taking this gift , they are going back to the old covenent.

by excepting the gift, of grace i/we are saved full stop. but you still have to live in the world.

8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
now i live for christ , because i believe he died and rose again and went to heaven.

the battle with self is a different topic.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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We are also...

Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Verse 11 makes plain that the Law of liberty is the Ten Commandments. They are the metric God uses. As you said in another place about having a breakthrough (and that is wonderful) concerning lust, there would be no lust if not for the seventh and tenth Commandments.
The law of liberty is the royal law, which is 'love your neighbor as yourself'. Having respect of persons violates the royal law. The law of Moses nowhere mentions showing respect of persons. John says if we keep the royal law, we will do well, which means that GOD is pleased. He mentions the 10 commandments, under which one has to be perfect (bondage which Peter said they nor their fathers were able to bear) merely to draw a contrast with the law of liberty under which we don't have to be perfect.
 

Elin

Banned
Jan 19, 2013
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not trying to debate just saying, i dont see where Yahshua ever said certian Laws would be abolished,
The revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, in which light all Scripture is to be understood, includes the whole NT, which is where you will find it.

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity, the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

The oppisition to yahweh's instructions was abolished, not the Law it's self.
You're going in circles, Hizikya, we've already been around this bush.

I will repeat it to refresh your memory:

I want to point out that the words that are in italics are ADDED:

Ephesians 2:15-16, (NKJV), "having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity. "

Not only odes the next verse tell us what was abolished, but when you remove the ADDED words the meaning changes.

Ephesians 2:15-16, "Abolishing the enmity the Law, the Commandments, and the Ordinances, through His own flesh, in order to create in Himself one new man from the two; making peace, That would reconcile both in one body to Yahweh through the sacrifice--having killed the enmity through Himself."

The oppisition to yahweh's instructions was abolished,


Yeremyah 31:33, "After those days, says Yahweh: I will put My Law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; minds, and I will be their Father, and they will be My people."

It is impossible to have HIS LAW written on your heart if you are in oppisition (enmity) to it, so the ENMITY was abolished.
No, it was not the "enmity" that was abolished, it was the cause of the enmity: i.e., "law of commandments" that was abolished.

Likewise, the enmity was not between men and the law, it was between Jew and Gentile.

You have conveniently omitted the context which clearly shows the meaning. . .and a text without a context is a pretext,
which is what is presented here.

"You who are Gentiles by birth. . .who once were far away have been brought near (along with the Jews)

through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two (Gentiles and Jews) one. . .

His purpose was to create in himself one new man (the body of Christ) out of the two (Gentiles and Jews),

thus making peace. . ." (Eph 2:11-15).

It's not about hostility to the law, it's about hostility between Jew and Gentile caused by the law.

The law was the cause of the wall of separation and hostility between Jew and Gentile, not between men and the law itself.

That hostility and wall of separation between Jew and Gentile was taken down by the cross, which made peace

1) between Jew and Gentile (v.15) by abolishing the law (as righteousness to salvation), and

2) between both and God (v.16-17) by his death which forgives the sin of those who believe in him,
giving them right standing (guilt removed, righteousness) before God.

Someone has let their theology overrun the NT Scriptures.

For your confusion regarding the grammatical construction of Eph 2:15, see post #451, here.
 
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john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
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The revelation spoken by the Son in these last days (Heb 1:1-2), given through the NT writers, in which light all Scripture is to be understood, includes the whole NT, which is where you will find it.


You're going in circles, Hizikya, we've already been around this bush.

I will repeat it to refresh your memory:


No, it was not the "enmity" that was abolished, it was the cause of the enmity: i.e., "law of commandments" that was abolished.

Likewise, the enmity was not between men and the law, it was between Jew and Gentile.

You have conveniently omitted the context which clearly shows the meaning. . .and a text without a context is a pretext,
which is what is presented here.

"You who are Gentiles by birth. . .who once were far away have been brought near (along with the Jews)

through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two (Gentiles and Jews) one. . .

His purpose was to create in himself one new man (the body of Christ) out of the two (Gentiles and Jews),

thus making peace. . ." (Eph 2:11-15).

It's not about hostility to the law, it's about hostility between Jew and Gentile caused by the law.

The law was the cause of the wall of separation and hostility between Jew and Gentile, not between men and the law itself.

That hostility and wall of separation between Jew and Gentile was taken down by the cross, which made peace

1) between Jew and Gentile (v.15) by abolishing the law (as righteousness to salvation), and

2) between both and God (v.16-17) by his death which forgives the sin of those who believe in him,
giving them right standing (guilt removed, righteousness) before God.

Someone has let their theology overrun the NT Scriptures.

For your confusion regarding the grammatical construction of Eph 2:15, see post #451, here.
So the Law is abolished? Yes or No?
 
Sep 4, 2012
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well that is the job of the 10 commandments to show us weather we sin or not, that is why paul said he would not have known that lust is a sin if he had not seen thou salt not covet
Paul doesn't say in Romans 7:7 that the law of Moses shows him (present tense) what sin is, but that the law of Moses showed him (past tense) what sin was. He is referring to his pre-conversion life in which he did not have the spirit. In his post conversion life, the holy spirit reveals what sin is (even though the law is useful for edification and instruction).
 

Josh321

Senior Member
Sep 3, 2013
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Paul doesn't say in Romans 7:7 that the law of Moses shows him (present tense) what sin is, but that the law of Moses showed him (past tense) what sin was. He is referring to his pre-conversion life in which he did not have the spirit. In his post conversion life, the holy spirit reveals what sin is (even though the law is useful for edification and instruction).
that's what i meant..